PDA

View Full Version : What are the laws on selling long guns


saberforge
01-31-2010, 4:00 PM
Does anyone know what the laws are on selling long guns in CA. Specifically, is there a limit on how many PPT's I can do a year?

huggybear
01-31-2010, 4:03 PM
r u going to be the buyer or seller?

Cokebottle
01-31-2010, 4:04 PM
BATF classifies "infrequent transactions" as "less than 6 transactions"

You can have as many guns on each of those transactions as you'd like, so if you have 600 guns, you can sell 100 to 6 separate buyers as long as your FFL is willing to write up the proper attachment pages for the DROS (DROS only has space for 3 on the front and some FFLs insist on a 2nd DROS for the 4th gun)

Mssr. Eleganté
01-31-2010, 4:19 PM
BATF classifies "infrequent transactions" as "less than 6 transactions"

BATF doesn't say anything about how many transactions per year it takes for you to be considered "dealing" without a license.

California law only mentions the "less than 6 transactions" for handguns. For long guns California law says that "infrequent" means "occasional[ly] and without regularity."

B Strong
01-31-2010, 4:21 PM
I'm curious to know if this regulation is/has ever been enforced against anyone that was selling off their personal collection or an estate sale.

I'm sure somebody that was turning firearms over constantly would get their *** in a crack, but I once sold off a collection of over 100 pieces (handguns, longuns, antique and modern) after a friend's death, and I never had a knock on the door.

I have also sold more than six in a year through PPT from my collection, and have never been contacted.

Everything I've done has been according to Hoyle as far as the transfers went, so I know that the state isn't in the dark about what I've done.

I know of legit stories from other jurisdictions where ATF has taken an interest in somebody they suspect of dealing w/o an FFL - I guess that because I've never bought-and-sold anything (my stuff usually stays with me for years before I have safe cleaning sales) It doesn't look like I'm up to no good.

Cokebottle
01-31-2010, 4:24 PM
I'm curious to know if this regulation is/has ever been enforced against anyone that was selling off their personal collection or an estate sale.
Personal collection and estate sales are specifically excluded.

Even the government understands that occasionally the financial SHTF and we have a need to liquidate property.

Mssr. Eleganté
01-31-2010, 4:31 PM
Personal collection and estate sales are specifically excluded.

Even the government understands that occasionally the financial SHTF and we have a need to liquidate property.

Personal collection sales are specifically excluded from the Federal restrictions.

...as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921 (a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms...

But there is no such exemption under California law. So if you are liquidating your collection in California you still need to follow the "infrequent" limit from the California Penal Code, unless you have been ordered to liquidate your collection by a court.

B Strong
01-31-2010, 5:46 PM
Personal collection sales are specifically excluded from the Federal restrictions.



But there is no such exemption under California law. So if you are liquidating your collection in California you still need to follow the "infrequent" limit from the California Penal Code, unless you have been ordered to liquidate your collection by a court.

Did I fall through a crack then? The widow needed the money - no court order, she was the executor of the estate and enlisted my help in disposing of the collection, which I did.

This was back in the mid-eighties if that matters.

Quiet
01-31-2010, 5:53 PM
Here's what CA says about selling...

Penal Code 12070
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:
(4) The infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(c)(1) As used in this section, "infrequent" means:
(A) For pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, less than six transactions per calendar year. For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person.
(B) For firearms other than pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, occasional and without regularity.

Mssr. Eleganté
01-31-2010, 5:53 PM
Did I fall through a crack then?

The law is probably never enforced except as a tacked on charge against somebody engaged in shadier stuff.

This was back in the mid-eighties if that matters.

Back in the mid-eighties you wouldn't have had to process any of those transfers through an FFL if you were selling to other California residents. There wouldn't have been any way for CalDOJ to find out about all of your transfers.