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View Full Version : KBI, Charles Daly going out of business...


missiontrails
01-30-2010, 2:23 PM
Just read this: http://charlesdalydefense.com/

aplinker
01-30-2010, 2:25 PM
No more Tavors in the near future, I take it...

May as well post this:
http://www.charlesdaly.com/

To all our friends, fans, supporters and consumers of Charles Daly and by extension, KBI products, I regret to inform you that the rumors of our demise are true.

KBI is going out of business and closing its doors, effective today, January 29, 2010.

I don't want to go into each and every detail as to why this has occurred, except to say that there have been a multitude of events over the past five years that have contributed to our current situation.

For those of you with ongoing service requirements please be advised that we are currently negotiating with several companies that will be performing after-sale service of Charles Daly, CD Defense and Jericho firearms. As soon as we have finalized a contract with one of these companies we will post the name, address and contact details of that company on www.CharlesDalyForum.com, so you will know who to contact to obtain service on your KBI firearm.

Again, I wish to thank all of you that have supported our company, Charles Daly and all the other fine firearms that we have sold over the years.. This spells the end of KBI but I imagine it will certainly not mean the end of Charles DalyŽ and CD Defense™. Look for this excellent brand to resurface in the very near future.

Sincerely,
Michael B. Kassnar, President
K.B.I., Inc.

bigcalidave
01-30-2010, 2:27 PM
Is this the end of the desert eagle?

missiontrails
01-30-2010, 2:28 PM
Is this the end of the desert eagle?

That's Magnum Research

marxdspot
01-30-2010, 2:35 PM
Well, that sucks. Nerving times.

missiontrails
01-30-2010, 2:41 PM
Maybe that's why Turner's chose to order Daly AR's recently- CLOSEOUT

speeedracerr
01-31-2010, 1:32 AM
That is sad... I was one of those who purchased a Charles Daly CDD15 and I have to admit, this rifle is 100% Top Quality!

Just when Charles Daly was in the process of making major improvements in name brand quality and image, they are going out of business...

Anyway, just glad I was able to purchase a Quality Piece from CD before all this happened. Just hope nothing goes wrong with my CD in the future...

I hope this economy slump turns for the better this year!

aplinker
01-31-2010, 4:09 AM
I think we'll see CDD back again soon...

That is sad... I was one of those who purchased a Charles Daly CDD15 and I have to admit, this rifle is 100% Top Quality!

Just when Charles Daly was in the process of making major improvements in name brand quality and image, they are going out of business...

Anyway, just glad I was able to purchase a Quality Piece from CD before all this happened. Just hope nothing goes wrong with my CD in the future...

I hope this economy slump turns for the better this year!

shooterdude
01-31-2010, 6:11 AM
The good news is that my firearms company is about to start selling Chinese made rifles and pistols and Turkish made shotguns from no-name factories that cost very little in chain stores like Big5 and bring me tiny margins in a market full of competitors with better ability to support customers than me.

My brand you ask? COB Weapons Systems. Yeah, every so often a customer will spend less than the competition and get a good piece that works well but for the most part my stuff will be so-so knock-offs of better known products.


In case you are curious, COB stands for Cheap Old Bastard.


Sarcasm aside, bigger companies can sell low price products only if they have enough higher priced ones to make up for it. A company like Charles Daly, by nature has to sell in huge volume to offset their low margins while lacking name recognition. This is an unsustainable business model and history has proven this over and over. Even Big5 has started selling Benelli shotguns....No need to question THAT brand for the average consumer.

haodoken
01-31-2010, 7:37 PM
No more Tavors in the near future, I take it...

May as well post this:
http://www.charlesdaly.com/

Darn! I was looking to get one of those TAVORs. :mad:

aplinker
01-31-2010, 9:37 PM
If you think Charles Daly is a company without name recognition, then you're very new to shooting.

The good news is that my firearms company is about to start selling Chinese made rifles and pistols and Turkish made shotguns from no-name factories that cost very little in chain stores like Big5 and bring me tiny margins in a market full of competitors with better ability to support customers than me.

My brand you ask? COB Weapons Systems. Yeah, every so often a customer will spend less than the competition and get a good piece that works well but for the most part my stuff will be so-so knock-offs of better known products.


In case you are curious, COB stands for Cheap Old Bastard.


Sarcasm aside, bigger companies can sell low price products only if they have enough higher priced ones to make up for it. A company like Charles Daly, by nature has to sell in huge volume to offset their low margins while lacking name recognition. This is an unsustainable business model and history has proven this over and over. Even Big5 has started selling Benelli shotguns....No need to question THAT brand for the average consumer.

osis32
01-31-2010, 9:41 PM
I have 2 cdd lowers. I guess theyre gonna be rare now.

bigcalidave
02-01-2010, 1:31 AM
That's Magnum Research

They still sell them but afaik jericho is imported by daly / kbi. Maybe it's only one model?

gotgunz
02-01-2010, 1:50 AM
If CD is known for low quality products I encourage everybody to send me your Rock Island 45's (made by Armscor who also made CD 1911's) and I guess I will have to quit carrying my CD 1911 compact.

Not!

speeedracerr
02-01-2010, 2:24 AM
I have 2 cdd lowers. I guess theyre gonna be rare now.

Im glad I got to purchase a CDD-15 before this all happened... Honestly I think they are TOP Quality AR's out there!

shooterdude
02-01-2010, 6:13 AM
If you think Charles Daly is a company without name recognition, then you're very new to shooting.


Just to be clear, I was talking about the public at large and the ability to mass market. Who in the free world hasn't heard of S&W, Remington, Colt, Beretta? Who outside of the shooting world HAS heard of Charles Daly?

I have been shooting since 1982 when I was a teenager and only head of CD a few years ago. That is a fact that contributed to their demise; poor marketing.

While anyone in the market for a low end shotgun might buy based upon the fact that a well known retailer (Big5) sells them for the lowest price that halo effect would not extend to the local gunshop where the noob would walk in and ask for or only consider a well known brand.

Read a book on marketing and branding and you will better understand what happened here.

Lissauer
02-01-2010, 7:44 AM
From Shooting Wire:

On Friday, that question was answered on the Charles Daly website (www.charlesdaly.com) in a brief statement from K.B.I, Inc. President Michael Kassnar:

"To all our friends, fans, supporters and consumers of Charles Daly and by extension, KBI products, I regret to inform you that the rumors of our demise are true.

KBI is going out of business and closing its doors, effective today, January 29, 2010."

Although no detail was provided, Kassnar said there were a "multitude of events over the past five years" that had contributed to the company's "current situation."

As far as service, Kassnar's message says "we are currently negotiating with several companies that will be performing after-sale service of Charles Daly, CD Defense and Jericho firearms." Details, according to Kassnar's message, would be posted at such time as they were completed on www.charlesdalyforum.com.

Daly/K.B.I. was primarily known for its imported products, from 1911 pistols from Armscor in the Philippines to over and under, side by side and semi-automatic shotguns from Turkey. The company also imported Jericho 941 pistols from Israel Weapons Industries. Charles Daly Defense, however, was a unit of the company founded in 2008 that manufactured and sold AR-15 style rifles and carbines for law enforcement, target and home defense. Those rifles were entirely manufactured in the United States.

BigDogatPlay
02-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Just to be clear, I was talking about the public at large and the ability to mass market. Who in the free world hasn't heard of S&W, Remington, Colt, Beretta? Who outside of the shooting world HAS heard of Charles Daly?

I have been shooting since 1982 when I was a teenager and only head of CD a few years ago. That is a fact that contributed to their demise; poor marketing.

I think you are right in part and wrong in part.

The Charles Daly brand was prominently, and slickly, marketed in the 50's, 60's and 70's when the brand was under previous ownership. It was still imports, but pretty much always of good to excellent quality and was successful. The brand has long been very well known, particularly among shotgunners which was their principle market. So in that respect I think you are short of the mark.

That said, I think you are spot on that the most recent iteration of the Daly brand under KBI was horridly marketed even though they were importing products of generally excellent quality. The CD branded 1911s I've tried were all solid and I'd be well satisfied to own one. I've seen two examples of their AR clone and both were tight and good shooters. But I've rarely seen any decent marketing or advertising for them since KBI came into the picture.

I have a hunch they were also a victim of a bit of dirty dealing but that is just a hunch.

Lurch762
02-01-2010, 12:44 PM
Man, that sucks they are out of business. I would love to have one of their rimfire Little Sharps.

shooterdude
02-01-2010, 2:34 PM
I think you are right in part and wrong in part.

The Charles Daly brand was prominently, and slickly, marketed in the 50's, 60's and 70's when the brand was under previous ownership. It was still imports, but pretty much always of good to excellent quality and was successful. The brand has long been very well known, particularly among shotgunners which was their principle market. So in that respect I think you are short of the mark.

That said, I think you are spot on that the most recent iteration of the Daly brand under KBI was horridly marketed even though they were importing products of generally excellent quality. The CD branded 1911s I've tried were all solid and I'd be well satisfied to own one. I've seen two examples of their AR clone and both were tight and good shooters. But I've rarely seen any decent marketing or advertising for them since KBI came into the picture.

I have a hunch they were also a victim of a bit of dirty dealing but that is just a hunch.

Successful marketing is an ongoing activity. You said it yourself, they marketed in the 50's, 60's and 70's. What have they been doing for the last 30-40 years? Building a business is more than just making products, good or otherwise. Many companies make mediocre products but market and sell well and gain market share while others make great products and don't gain market share and eventually disappear. Sure, CD may have had some quality goods but not enough of the target market was aware of that fact for it to matter.

Every business is a victim of dirty dealing, FUD, and outright targeted attacks by competitors. If you can't take the heat then you don't belong in the oven which is EXACTLY why we are having this conversation about CD.

Business is about survival of the fittest, or those that can convince the market that they are the fittest.

RMTactical
02-01-2010, 3:08 PM
Too bad, CD was making some good AR15's.

ErikTheRed
02-01-2010, 3:25 PM
I was one of those fellas who walked into a gun shop recently and walked out with a Charles Daly shotgun (well, walked out with the paperwork, but you know what I mean). Why a CD? Because it suited the need and it was fairly inexpensive. I wanted a lightweight youth 20g for my wife and daughters, and at just a tick under 5 lbs, it was one of the lightest I could find. Its only been fired 10 times, but the gun feels solid, looks decently refined, and it shoots well. The pump-action feels smooth, locks up nice and tight. Its a Turkish-built import, but from the info I've read regarding Turkey's firearms manufacturing abilities in recent years, they really ain't too shabby. I'm perfectly satisfied with the Charles Daly shotgun, it seems worth what I paid for it.

Now, that said, another big consideration for my purchase was Daly's "lifetime warrantee", which is now in question. I really hope they get something set up, just in case I should ever need to take advantage of warrantee service.

swerv512
02-01-2010, 6:38 PM
all i have to do is wait for the CDD lowers to price drop so i can grab one....:43:

aplinker
02-01-2010, 7:42 PM
all i have to do is wait for the CDD lowers to price drop so i can grab one....:43:

Why would they? CDD lowers are a commodity item - they're not going to drop below market value.

turbochris
02-01-2010, 7:44 PM
wow I always liked there stuff

swerv512
02-01-2010, 8:01 PM
Why would they? CDD lowers are a commodity item - they're not going to drop below market value.

true, they're already at bottom of the bucket prices already in some places.... just wishful thinking i guess.:p

speeedracerr
02-01-2010, 8:04 PM
true, they're already at bottom of the bucket prices already in some places.... just wishful thinking i guess.:p

Hmmmm... I wonder if CDD would be the opposite and appreciate in value since productions may be limited in number? :D

shooterdude
02-01-2010, 8:06 PM
Spikes lowers are $90-$100. Does it get any better than that?

ErikTheRed
02-01-2010, 9:07 PM
Spikes lowers are $90-$100. Does it get any better than that?

As a matter of fact, it does....... Aero Precision (they make Spikes) lowers for $80 at TDS in Loomis. ;)

swerv512
02-01-2010, 9:28 PM
^^^
do i hear $50 lowers....
going once, going twice....

professionalcoyotehunter
02-02-2010, 1:07 PM
I wonder where they will be holding the liquidation sale?

shooterdude
02-02-2010, 2:39 PM
As a matter of fact, it does....... Aero Precision (they make Spikes) lowers for $80 at TDS in Loomis. ;)

Nothing on their website, they must be out but lots of places have these for that price.

ErikTheRed
02-02-2010, 6:28 PM
Nothing on their website, they must be out but lots of places have these for that price.

The TDS website is not updated. They hope to do much better with the website after they move into their new location sometime this month. However, I assure you-- the Aero lowers are indeed $80 at TDS, and they have plenty in stock. I just picked up two of them this afternoon. :)

Deja-Vu
02-02-2010, 8:23 PM
I just got a CD semi 12 gage shotgun at Big five for $300 one of the reasons I got it was for the life time warranty :mad:

dadoody
02-07-2010, 11:24 PM
I just got a CD semi 12 gage shotgun at Big five for $300 one of the reasons I got it was for the life time warranty :mad:

yeah, I never knew much about this company. One reason I got the mossberg over this thing.

Here's a posting from Charles Daly before the company went out of business: http://www.charlesdalyforum.com/showthread.php?t=1635