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Wild Squid
01-30-2010, 2:59 PM
Please excuse me as I don't keep up with the times in the particular part of the forum, but awhile ago I dropped in here and there was some kind of big hoopla over a court ruling on Incorporation and lots of ya'll were all giddy that this was actually going to win back some of our 2nd A rights such as obtaining a CCW in a shall issue manner. So whatever happened to the excitement on that. Has anyone been able to do anything with Incorporation?

ke6guj
01-30-2010, 3:03 PM
the nordyke ruling was placed on hold pending McDonald v. Chicago being heard by the Supreme Court in March.

DedEye
01-30-2010, 3:06 PM
It's not the easiest to find on the Wiki (even if it is linked on the main page), so right now I don't hate you. (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/McDonald_v._Chicago)

wildhawker
01-30-2010, 3:07 PM
Wild, please visit the wiki at calgunsfoundation.org for a detailed rundown. See "McDonald v. Chicago" and "Nordyke v. King".

hoffmang
01-30-2010, 3:08 PM
We won Nordyke v. King on incorporation but then the case was taken en-banc by the 9th Circuit court of appeals which means it stops having effect until it is decided. A few days before that oral argument, the Supreme Court granted cert in McDonald v. Chicago. After oral argument, the 9th Circuit held Nordyke for the completion of McDonald. All the McDonald filings are in and can be see at http://chicagoguncase.com . Oral arguments will be held in McDonald on March 2 and a decision should come in the last week of June.

The other cases about carry and the handgun roster are on hold waiting for the decision in McDonald.

-Gene

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 3:13 PM
We won Nordyke v. King on incorporation but then the case was taken en-banc by the 9th Circuit court of appeals which means it stops having effect until it is decided. A few days before that oral argument, the Supreme Court granted cert in McDonald v. Chicago. After oral argument, the 9th Circuit held Nordyke for the completion of McDonald. All the McDonald filings are in and can be see at http://chicagoguncase.com . Oral arguments will be held in McDonald on March 2 and a decision should come in the last week of June.

The other cases about carry and the handgun roster are on hold waiting for the decision in McDonald.

-Gene

I really want this over with. I understand that our illustrious California Department of "Justice" looks in on us from time to time and laughs at your efforts. I want to have the last laugh soon.

Hopi
01-30-2010, 3:19 PM
I really want this over with. I understand that our illustrious California Department of "Justice" looks in on us from time to time and laughs at your efforts. I want to have the last laugh soon.

You must be new here. Calguns has been slapping the DOJ around for years now...I think they're quite tired of it frankly, they probably are hoping for incorporation at this point along with us.

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 3:28 PM
You must be new here. Calguns has been slapping the DOJ around for years now...I think they're quite tired of it frankly, they probably are hoping for incorporation at this point along with us.

I'm only mentioning what I've been told from people I still keep in contact with in SoCal. I'm not privy to all of the intimate details in the battle to restore the second amendment to its original prominence.

DedEye
01-30-2010, 3:29 PM
I'm only mentioning what I've been told from people I still keep in contact with in SoCal. I'm not privy to all of the intimate details in the battle to restore the second amendment to its original prominence.

The CA DOJ isn't located in SoCal.

Hopi
01-30-2010, 3:32 PM
I'm only mentioning what I've been told from people I still keep in contact with in SoCal. I'm not privy to all of the intimate details in the battle to restore the second amendment to its original prominence.

To be fair, mentions of Iggy and AM are few and far between these days....

hoffmang
01-30-2010, 4:13 PM
The CA DOJ isn't located in SoCal.

There are offices down there. That 'tude does not surprise me but I'm going to enjoy the last laugh.

-Gene

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 4:17 PM
To be fair, mentions of Iggy and AM are few and far between these days....

What prompted the conversation was his comment about more gun laws coming down the pipe compliments of DOJ. When I mentioned Calguns, he said that he knew of Calguns through some DOJ people he knows who are making some plans that he couldn't or wouldn't elaborate on. So I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe you guys know.

DedEye
01-30-2010, 4:18 PM
There are offices down there. That 'tude does not surprise me but I'm going to enjoy the last laugh.

-Gene

Wasn't aware of that. It doesn't shock me either given the number of DOJ "analysts" who will tell you that the bullet button is illegal, but still surprising that they'd be laughing still.

DedEye
01-30-2010, 4:18 PM
What prompted the conversation was his comment about more gun laws coming down the pipe compliments of DOJ. When I mentioned Calguns, he said that he knew of Calguns through some DOJ people he knows who are making some plans that he couldn't or wouldn't elaborate on. So I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe you guys know.

He spoke of :fud:.

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 4:25 PM
He spoke of :fud:.

Well, if :fud: means fear, uncertainty, and doubt, it doesn't hurt to keep a little on hand just so that everyone stays sharp.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a chess game. I just hope our pieces are in the right place for the ultimate check and mate.

DedEye
01-30-2010, 4:26 PM
Well, if :fud: means fear, uncertainty, and doubt, it doesn't hurt to keep a little on hand just so that everyone stays sharp.

This is beginning to sound more and more like a chess game. I just hope our pieces are in the right place for the ultimate check and mate.

It would seem that our pieces are in place until someone like Gorski or OCers come along and take a dump on the board.

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 4:30 PM
It would seem that our pieces are in place until someone like Gorski or OCers come along and take a dump on the board.

Well, that would certainly justify some fear, uncertainty and doubt. I'll take the middle road and remain cautiously optimistic.

Wild Squid
01-30-2010, 4:48 PM
We won Nordyke v. King on incorporation but then the case was taken en-banc by the 9th Circuit court of appeals which means it stops having effect until it is decided. A few days before that oral argument, the Supreme Court granted cert in McDonald v. Chicago. After oral argument, the 9th Circuit held Nordyke for the completion of McDonald. All the McDonald filings are in and can be see at http://chicagoguncase.com . Oral arguments will be held in McDonald on March 2 and a decision should come in the last week of June.

The other cases about carry and the handgun roster are on hold waiting for the decision in McDonald.

-Gene


So what happens if McDonald loses against Chicago, does that mean Incorporation gets thrown out the window?

wildhawker
01-30-2010, 4:59 PM
Incorporation via McDonald is virtually assured.

hoffmang
01-30-2010, 5:24 PM
What prompted the conversation was his comment about more gun laws coming down the pipe compliments of DOJ. When I mentioned Calguns, he said that he knew of Calguns through some DOJ people he knows who are making some plans that he couldn't or wouldn't elaborate on. So I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe you guys know.

There are some BoFers who think they just need to bide their time until AG Brown becomes Governor Brown again.

The problem with such a diabolical plan is they forget that laws will be raining down out of federal courts around them. We're going to make a tremendous amount of work for them just trying to re-write the stuff we invalidate.

It's going to be a blast!

-Gene

Lone_Gunman
01-30-2010, 5:29 PM
So what happens if McDonald loses against Chicago, does that mean Incorporation gets thrown out the window?



Then it will be time. (See my sig.)

tyrist
01-30-2010, 5:35 PM
There are some BoFers who think they just need to bide their time until AG Brown becomes Governor Brown again.

The problem with such a diabolical plan is they forget that laws will be raining down out of federal courts around them. We're going to make a tremendous amount of work for them just trying to re-write the stuff we invalidate.

It's going to be a blast!

-Gene

If there is one think LEO hate more than anything it's increased load of paper work and admin.

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 6:31 PM
There are some BoFers who think they just need to bide their time until AG Brown becomes Governor Brown again.

The problem with such a diabolical plan is they forget that laws will be raining down out of federal courts around them. We're going to make a tremendous amount of work for them just trying to re-write the stuff we invalidate.

It's going to be a blast!

-Gene

That should certainly be a lot of fun to see when it happens. Without exposing the playbook, can you throw us a bone and give us something as a kind of appetizer?

Librarian
01-30-2010, 7:03 PM
That should certainly be a lot of fun to see when it happens. Without exposing the playbook, can you throw us a bone and give us something as a kind of appetizer?

Most of it's out there in public already.

McDonald gets 2nd Amendment as a right, enforceable against the states.

Nordyke will apply that as a necessary consequence, though whether the Nordykes get their gunshows in Alameda again is a different issue.

Pena, after Nordyke, will probably throw out the Roster; it may get appealed to 9th Circuit, but McDonald -> Nordyke probably means that appeal will still result in a Pena win.

Similarly, Sykes probably will get 'self defense' established as 'good cause' for CCW.

Then, a number of suits against the State regarding CA 'assault weapons' were tossed on '2nd Amendment does not apply to the States' grounds; with that overturned, those suits should come to life and apply Heller. With those established as not 'dangerous or unusual' via all the functionally identical OLLs, then the ammunition for them, and other guns, probably gets protection.

The multiple flies in the ointments will be when LA and SF try to pass their own replacements for the struck-down State level laws, because they'll argue the 2nd couldn't possibly apply to them - they have problems, they have all these sensitive places... They'll lose almost all of those but it will be expensive. The limit on the number of those is the patience of 9th Circuit.

That's my prediction for 2010 - 2015. Just guessing, of course.

DedEye
01-30-2010, 7:05 PM
That should certainly be a lot of fun to see when it happens. Without exposing the playbook, can you throw us a bone and give us something as a kind of appetizer?

I don't know (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid), but it would appear a couple moves have already been made (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Sykes_v._McGinness).

Roadrunner
01-30-2010, 7:42 PM
Most of it's out there in public already.

McDonald gets 2nd Amendment as a right, enforceable against the states.

This is a good thing

Nordyke will apply that as a necessary consequence, though whether the Nordykes get their gunshows in Alameda again is a different issue.

Yeah, about that. What gives a public property the right to permit some people, but not allow other to hold a special event? That sounds very discriminatory.

Pena, after Nordyke, will probably throw out the Roster; it may get appealed to 9th Circuit, but McDonald -> Nordyke probably means that appeal will still result in a Pena win.

Like that.

Similarly, Sykes probably will get 'self defense' established as 'good cause' for CCW.

With self defense as a good cause, does that pretty much asure shall issue?

Then, a number of suits against the State regarding CA 'assault weapons' were tossed on '2nd Amendment does not apply to the States' grounds; with that overturned, those suits should come to life and apply Heller. With those established as not 'dangerous or unusual' via all the functionally identical OLLs, then the ammunition for them, and other guns, probably gets protection.

If I understand what cases you are referring to, some of those cases are over 10 years old, would someone have to file a new law suit?

The multiple flies in the ointments will be when LA and SF try to pass their own replacements for the struck-down State level laws, because they'll argue the 2nd couldn't possibly apply to them - they have problems, they have all these sensitive places... They'll lose almost all of those but it will be expensive. The limit on the number of those is the patience of 9th Circuit.

Wouldn't preemption pretty much prevent that issue? It seems that if the state already has a law that permits or prevents something, a city can't just do their own thing.

That's my prediction for 2010 - 2015. Just guessing, of course.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll be keeping an eye out.

Librarian
01-30-2010, 8:07 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I'll be keeping an eye out.Yes, I believe challenging aws will require a new suit.

There may not be any modifications to statute until the legislature gets around to make technical changes to conform to the way the courts have slapped them upside their heads overturned their unconstitutional laws.

That being likely, there won't be any state pre-emption for a while, leaving the window open for the cities to waste everybody's time and money.

bwiese
01-30-2010, 9:22 PM
To be fair, mentions of Iggy and AM are few and far between these days....

Actually, matters invovling and impinging upon both of them are likely to arise in a big way even way before incorporation.

DougJ
01-30-2010, 9:24 PM
There are some BoFers who think they just need to bide their time until AG Brown becomes Governor Brown again.

The problem with such a diabolical plan is they forget that laws will be raining down out of federal courts around them. We're going to make a tremendous amount of work for them just trying to re-write the stuff we invalidate.

It's going to be a blast!

-Gene

Al I can say to this is thank you.

Thank you for your attitude.

Thank you for you perseverance.

Thank you for working so hard to protect/salvage my rights.

Fangs out, go get 'em.

Doug

Hopi
01-30-2010, 9:51 PM
Actually, matters invovling and impinging upon both of them are likely to arise in a big way even way before incorporation.

That makes me very happy. I love reunions!

We're getting the band back together! :43:

G17GUY
01-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Actually, matters invovling and impinging upon both of them are likely to arise in a big way even way before incorporation.


:eek:

:D