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View Full Version : Young Manufacturing National Match Chrome Light BCG - Feedback?


WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 10:25 AM
Young Manufacturing National Match Chrome Light BCG (http://www.youngmanufacturing.net/product-info.php?pid103.html)

http://www.youngmanufacturing.net/avactis-images/pimage_103_000000001.jpg
Have any of you used this BCG? I hear it is very good, but am looking for additional feedback. I found it on sale for $198, so I am thinking of picking it up. Looking for advice from people that have experience with a variety of high end BCGs please.

Thanks guys!

THT
01-29-2010, 10:30 AM
Why are you interested in it? If it's for a precision AR, focus on your barrel and trigger first.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 10:39 AM
Trigger upgrade is already taken care of :43::43::43: Using a timney 4lb trigger.

My understanding of the MP-15T is that the barrel is already very nice right out of the box.

I want to complete the cycle and get the BCG in there too. Right now it is going in to a 16" build which started out as a complete S&W MP15-T. I figure I can get this now and use it in the MP-15, and when I get a new upper assembly for my 20" build (currently has a DPMS upper assembly on it, hardly precision) I will move the BCG over to that rifle. For now though, everything in the 16" build is upgraded besides the BCG.

I am also motivated by the sale price, as they normally go for around $250 or so

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 10:46 AM
Also, funny you were the first to respond, I just placed an order on your website! Picked up an AFG, front MBUS, and a couple of mags.

Barney Gumble
01-29-2010, 10:48 AM
What exactly are you planning to use it for.

Keep in mind that reliability is a factor of a number of variables including length of gas system, gas port size, BC weight and buffer weight. When you start adjusting one without adjusting the others you might throw something off. If you have an adjustable gas block that would certainly make it easier to tune.

nrakid88
01-29-2010, 10:49 AM
Just a heads up, I have read that the Chrome lined BCG's aren't so good because the chrome lining isn't very controlable, and they aren't spec'd as to as tight tolerances, and I think that along with the fact that chrome is much harder than steel makes the rails in your upper receiver wear faster. You may want to research that because its probably second or third or fourt or fifth hand info, haha.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 10:56 AM
What exactly are you planning to use it for.

Keep in mind that reliability is a factor of a number of variables including length of gas system, gas port size, BC weight and buffer weight. When you start adjusting one without adjusting the others you might throw something off. If you have an adjustable gas block that would certainly make it easier to tune.

They claim it is a drop in part. It weighs only 1/2 oz more than a standard AR BCG, and reduces wear by having extended surface area. I will give their Rep a call and talk to him about it to make sure it will work in my Middy 16" upper until I finish building the 20" precision rifle out.

It's final home will be a precision 20" build I am working on. This build will have a rifle length gas system. If I need a heavier buffer, that's an easy fix. I plan on shooting this rifle mostly at longer distances, most likely 200-500 yards. I will be building this with a Mega Monolithic upper when they come out (going on top of a Sun Devil billet lower) and I havent decided on the barrel yet. I would say I am sx months away from completing the build. Its already a complete rifle as is so I am in no rush to spend a ton of money at once.

I spoke with the rep at Young about an hour and half ago and he told me this is a very popular BCG for 3 gun shooters who want to boost their cycle rate, minimize wear & tear, and increase reliability.

BigBamBoo
01-29-2010, 11:49 AM
..........

Barney Gumble
01-29-2010, 12:00 PM
I spoke with the rep at Young about an hour and half ago and he told me this is a very popular BCG for 3 gun shooters who want to boost their cycle rate, minimize wear & tear, and increase reliability.

Correct and a lot of them run adjustable gas blocks...and/or heavier buffers.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 12:48 PM
Hmmm, maybe I need to spend more money then? Okay twist my arm... alright I'll buy it all!

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 12:54 PM
Barney - Just called Young Manufacturing and confirmed this is a drop in BSC and that you don't need a heavier buffer or adjustable gas block for it to cycle properly: "Just drop it in and you are ready to go." I told him about my plan to use it in the carbine and then switch to the 20" build at a later date and he said it was good to go.

Thanks for the write up 'Boo, I might still consider getting a heavier buffer and adjustable gas block. The JP BCGs look pretty sweet too!

gunsnrovers
01-29-2010, 12:59 PM
They don't stake the carrier key. Some vendors stake the the YM units before they resell them. If you buy it, make sure it's staked before you run it.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 1:03 PM
They don't stake the carrier key. Some vendors stake the the YM units before they resell them. If you buy it, make sure it's staked before you run it.

Yeah I asked them about this to. They said they dont stake it purposefully because if a BCG is properly manufactured it does not need to be staked. They have all sorts of information about how they make it and why it does not need to be staked.

gunsnrovers
01-29-2010, 1:06 PM
OK. Tell that the military and the M16 Maintenance Manual.

Are you over at M4carbine.net asking the same question?

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 1:10 PM
OK. Tell that the military and the M16 Maintenance Manual.

The military does not use custom NM BCGs in general... So give them a call at the number listed on their website, and ask them why their BCG doesn't need to be staked. It will be an enlightening call to say the least. From their point of view, any BCG that needs to be staked is inproperly made.

Seriously, take a couple of minutes and call them. (623) 915-3889. You will speak directly to a rep right away, no waiting on hold or anything like that.

bwiese
01-29-2010, 1:11 PM
OK. Tell that the military and the M16 Maintenance Manual.

Yup. The idea of a carrier key not needing to be staked is laughable.

One of the big causes of poor AR cycling, esp. w/marginal ammo, is gas leaks from a loose carrier key.

Also, unless you want a really really really special low-round-count AR, I'd discourage use of a chromed bolt carrier. It much more rapidly wears the coatings lining the inside of your upper receiver. Uncle Sugar abandoned use of them in M16s in later 60s when thise was found out.

You can have a plenty accurate AR usinga decent milspect bolt carrier, and if you want improved cycling use the heavier M16 bolt carrer - perfectly legal.

gunsnrovers
01-29-2010, 1:13 PM
Also, unless you want a really really really special low-round-count AR, I'd discourage use of a chromed bolt carrier. It much more rapidly wears the coatings lining the inside of your upper receiver. Uncle Sugar abandoned use of them in M16s in later 60s when thise was found out.

that too. per the manual, chromed BCG's are only approved for non-deploying units. there's another hint.

gunsnrovers
01-29-2010, 1:14 PM
So give them a call at the number listed on their website, and ask them why their BCG doesn't need to be staked. It will be an enlightening call to say the least. From their point of view, any BCG that needs to be staked is inproperly made.

Seriously, take a couple of minutes and call them. (623) 915-3889. You will speak directly to a rep right away, no waiting on hold or anything like that.

I have no desire to get into a pissing match with them on the phone. They're more then welcome to sell their product however they want. I won't be sending them my money.

gunsnrovers
01-29-2010, 1:17 PM
I would recommend you look at the Bravo Company Ion Bond BCG instead. Properly made and reviews of the ion bond coating have been pretty solid.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 1:18 PM
Les Baer Custom uses these BCGs. Just sayin.

Well if that is the general consensus, maybe I will opt for the JP.

Agro
01-29-2010, 1:39 PM
IMHO - buying a chrome N/M BCG isn't going to get you anything other than the "bling bling" factor when the bolt is in battery and the dust cover is down. If that is what you want then YM is probably the way to go. If you truly want to spend money on something that will improve the precision of your AR then spend it on a trigger or optics. If you already have both, then buy some more good ammo.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 1:49 PM
I got the trigger and optics covered. I was also drawn to the idea that the Chrome BCG's were very easy and quick to clean as gas residue/carbon has a hard time sticking to it, and I am not a big fan of cleaning my rifles to begin with. I do it, but I don't like doing it. The bling bling factor would be nice as well though.

Agro
01-29-2010, 1:52 PM
I got the trigger and optics covered. I was also drawn to the idea that the Chrome BCG's were very easy and quick to clean as gas residue/carbon has a hard time sticking to it, and I am not a big fan of cleaning my rifles to begin with. I do it, but I don't like doing it. The bling bling factor would be nice as well though.

I hear they are easier to clean than standard parkarized BCG's. I bought a YM NM chrome BCG for my first build, then bought a LaRue Stealth upper and decided I would stick with the LaRue BCG, sold the YM BCG. I liked the bling bling factor but figued I'd invest the $ elsewhere. Lots of people have the YM chrome BCG's. If you buy it, I bet it will be good to go no problem. Good luck

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 1:55 PM
That's what I'm thinking too... I just don't want to severely shorten the lifespan of my upper receiver per what people were saying above. I have no experience with upgraded BCGs so this will be my pilot run on them. Worst case scenario I could always pick up another upper in a few years, and sell the BCG if it is a big problem.

Barney Gumble
01-29-2010, 1:59 PM
If it takes you more than 10 seconds to wipe down your BCG you're not using enough lube...

Agro
01-29-2010, 2:04 PM
That's what I'm thinking too... I just don't want to severely shorten the lifespan of my upper receiver per what people were saying above. I have no experience with upgraded BCGs so this will be my pilot run on them. Worst case scenario I could always pick up another upper in a few years, and sell the BCG if it is a big problem.

Yes that is worst-case-scenario.

I think that chrome wear down the upper stuff is snake oil talk. The BCG also only touches the upper on a few tiny places where the rails are, not the whole thing. I have seen people post on ARFCOM saying they have been running them for many years with 10+ thousands of rounds down the pipe.

I see MUCH more conflicting discussion (over and over) on whether or not you should stake your YM BCG gas key since the dudes over there say it isn't necessary. I say stake it anyhow, it's fast, it's easy and it's reassurance. They put loc-tite in their gas key screws, but I like them staked.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 2:10 PM
If it takes you more than 10 seconds to wipe down your BCG you're not using enough lube...
I run her wet don't worry about that. I spray some lube in there every 100 rounds or so to make sure she stays wet while I fire her as well. Its more when I don't get to cleaning her for a week or two that I start running into the problem (which really isn't much of a problem at all) Its just the little nooks and crannies I feel I must meticulously clean that get to me - sort of an OCD thing going on here. I like to put it back in looking like the day I bought it.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 2:48 PM
Just saw a post on the Ar15Armory boards by Addax Tactical saying they almost exclusively use the Young BCGs in their GPUs...

I am pretty much using Young Mfg. Bolt Carrier Groups in all of my GPU's now, including the AR15 Armory Group Buy models.

Young Mfg. is very consistent with their machining vs. other bolt carrier mfg's.

I have tested and used LMT, CMT, AO, Colt, Young Mfg. and the one that has impressed me the most is Young Mfg. This post was dated January 23rd, 2009 by Addax

You know the saying, if it's good enough for Addax, it's good enough for me!

BigBamBoo
01-29-2010, 4:15 PM
.......

gunsnrovers
01-29-2010, 4:23 PM
You can justify this however you want. If you're not going to listen, why ask the question? It's been covered many many times. There is a reason the military service manual, who I believe may have one of the longest on going relationships with the platform, stakes their gas keys. :beatdeadhorse5:

And there is also a post on AR15armory.com where Chris as ADDAX states not to worry about the YM BCG's because HE stakes them before they go out with a MOACKS tool.

Addax
01-29-2010, 4:38 PM
Due to the huge demand for Chrome Bolt Carrier Groups, we are going to be adding a new Addax Enhanced Full Auto Chrome Bolt Carrier Group with a Mil-Spec MP tested chromed bolt, and these are mfg'd for us by Young Mfg.

Our Addax Enhanced Full Auto Chrome Bolt Carrier Group is all chrome, not a mix of chrome and phosphate parts.

We are getting the same bolts that are used by several Military Contractors for the M4 and M16's, so these are MPI tested etc.

We stake the top of the screws and carrier key (see pic below), and a special Loctite Compound (high temp/high strength) is used on the screws.

The O-ring is installed to enhance overall extraction.

These are the same Bolt Carrier Groups we are starting to use on our ATAC GPU's and Custom DI uppers (5.56 models have the complete Chrome BCG, 6.8 only has the Chrome BCG, and Microslicked Bolt).

Here is a pic. It will be up on the website this weekend.

MSRP $179.00 (Calguns.net Member Discount Price $175.00) plus shipping.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0083-3.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0091-2.jpg


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/addax/IMG_0087-3.jpg

IsaacGlass
01-29-2010, 5:23 PM
Chris, Are these compatible with DI carbine AR's?

bwiese
01-29-2010, 6:01 PM
Chris,

Why do you wanna wear out peoples' upper receivers?

Addax
01-29-2010, 6:17 PM
Chris, Are these compatible with DI carbine AR's?

Yes, these are for DI uppers.

Addax
01-29-2010, 6:25 PM
Chris,

Why do you wanna wear out peoples' upper receivers?

I don't, and from my personal and professional experience, I see the issue more with improperly machined and cut upper receivers where they are very tight, even when using a phosphate carrier, and even the phosphate carrier will wear the hard anodizing down quickly due to the binding and friction since the upper is not cut properly, or it has scallops etc.

The other factor here is that our new Chrome BCG is not the oversized National Match one's, which if you use these in say a tight fitting upper like a MUR, you will see more of the wear on the bolt carrier contact path inside the upper.

I have tested these bolt carrier groups in my upper receivers that we have manufactured for us, plus in a Black Rain Ordnance Billet Upper, and in several different Vltor MUR uppers, and we do not have the hard friction or binding, and we are not seeing anything out of the oridinary in terms of wear.

Just add a little lube and it works really smoothly.

Chris

LasVegasTaxMan
01-29-2010, 7:05 PM
I have youngs, no need to stake I know it's added security but just make sure it has loc tite. Overall they are nicer than most bcg but the only thing you get is a nice bolt that is easy to clean. Bottom line if you have the bucks spend it, all others want them but won't get them because of price.

WeekendWarrior
01-29-2010, 7:14 PM
You can justify this however you want. If you're not going to listen, why ask the question? It's been covered many many times. There is a reason the military service manual, who I believe may have one of the longest on going relationships with the platform, stakes their gas keys. :beatdeadhorse5:

And there is also a post on AR15armory.com where Chris as ADDAX states not to worry about the YM BCG's because HE stakes them before they go out with a MOACKS tool.

I have decided to stake mine no matter what so don't worry, I was listening! I was just telling you what they told me not arguing absolutely against staking. If anything I was more worried about the chrome aspect, which after researching for over two hours today I decuded would be an acceptable risk, especially because the upper receiver is not itself an incredibly expensive part to replace.

Once againy goal was to figure out what all the positive and negative facyors would be with going with one of these BCGs. I was honestly looking into everything you all said during the day today. I hope you dont feel like I was writing you off, as I most certainly wasnt. You gave me the type of information I was looking for so I could make an informed decision. Thank you for that!

-WW

LasVegasTaxMan
01-29-2010, 7:27 PM
Thanks Chris,

You just made my wallet lighter, PM sent.


[QUOTE=Addax;3722075]

MSRP $179.00 (Calguns.net Member Discount Price $175.00) plus shipping.

missiontrails
01-29-2010, 7:52 PM
I had that BCG last year, it seemed like a tight fit in my receiver, and .223 (not 5.56) cycled poorly with it. When I put a regular non-special RRA BCG in that same upper, all cycled well. I have heard that the chromed Youngs are a pinch oversize. I know that Denny's Super Duty BCG's are the normal phosphate finished Youngs, and the one I had worked great.

Agro
01-29-2010, 8:29 PM
I posted a few on page #2 of this thread. I posted that I had a YM NM carrier and I sold it because my LaRue came with a BCG. I didn't add the fact that when I got the new LaRue upper I tried my YM BCG in it and it was really tight, it didnt move smoothly like the LaRue, so that was another reason to sell the YM and keep the LaRue, maybe non-NM would have been a better fit. Oh well, Im happy, I spent the $$$ on optics :)

Addax
01-29-2010, 9:42 PM
I had that BCG last year, it seemed like a tight fit in my receiver, and .223 (not 5.56) cycled poorly with it. When I put a regular non-special RRA BCG in that same upper, all cycled well. I have heard that the chromed Youngs are a pinch oversize. I know that Denny's Super Duty BCG's are the normal phosphate finished Youngs, and the one I had worked great.

The carriers we are using are not the oversized ones like the Nationl Match from Young. Basically it is the same Young carrier that you mentioned, but chromed, and Young is equipping our BCG's with bolts from a Military Contractor per our request.

The Young NM carriers will have a tighter fit with most upper receivers since those are a little oversized. They do need some breaking in with some uppers, in order for them not to bind or have the tight friction.

WeekendWarrior
01-30-2010, 12:45 AM
Well I hope it fits then! I checked the BCG in the S&W MP for play. It seems like there is a decent amount of wiggle room so I am hoping the NM BCG will fit. Guess only way to be sure is to wait for it to arrive.

Addax
01-30-2010, 1:27 PM
Well I hope it fits then! I checked the BCG in the S&W MP for play. It seems like there is a decent amount of wiggle room so I am hoping the NM BCG will fit. Guess only way to be sure is to wait for it to arrive.

Best thing to do with the National Match Carriers if they are tight fit is pour lots of lube like gun oil, or even motor oil into the upper and around the bolt carrier group, and hand cycle the carrier until you do not feel the drag or resistance.

I like the NM carriers, but they are going to be a tighter fit with some upper receivers.

IsaacGlass
01-30-2010, 1:34 PM
Chris Addax site is down?

my bad, I was lazy and was using the link on your sig.

Addax
01-30-2010, 2:38 PM
Chris Addax site is down?

my bad, I was lazy and was using the link on your sig.

Actually My Bad.

I was working on the signature links the other day.

Just fixed it.

Thanks for the heads up.

Chris