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View Full Version : Wanted to FYI everyone on this


daveinwoodland
01-28-2010, 5:14 PM
My Dad who is retired and in his 80's has always been a avid shooter along with all of us. When he retired it gave him the opportunity to do so more frequently so he was going to his local indoor range 3 times a week.

On a regular check up with his Doc they ran the usual blood tests and both his Doctor and him had quite a shock. His lead levels in his blood were "100"

Apparently 0-10 is considered normal. So he had to put off indoor shooting for the last 6 months to allow the lead levels to dissipate.

Just an FYI for all, that amount can eventual lead to other health issues you don't want to have in your body so a regular blood test may not be a bad idea if you are a frequent visitor to your local indoor range.

Maltese Falcon
01-28-2010, 5:20 PM
I did a research paper on Lead at Indoor Shooting ranges some time ago (Ok a loong time ago:rolleyes:) and anyway depending on the ventilation system effectiveness (or lack thereof) ambient air lead levels can often be found at chronically hazardous levels....

I stopped going to my indoor range on weekends after that...

.

Joe
01-28-2010, 6:42 PM
Scary. I love indoor ranges

freonr22
01-28-2010, 6:56 PM
Who regulates the fresh air and air change per hour rates? Epa? I do despise the govment but the range does have a responsibility and liability to consumers. I would think also that it would have to have a yearly or biyearly cert

daveinwoodland
01-28-2010, 7:30 PM
Who regulates the fresh air and air change per hour rates? Epa? I do despise the govment but the range does have a responsibility and liability to consumers. I would think also that it would have to have a yearly or biyearly cert
I thought the same thing too. If anyone knows please let us know.

freonr22
01-28-2010, 7:58 PM
i mean when they do lead abatement, they use the same negative air machine with 12" thick hepas as with asbestos abatement AND the people in containment have to wear bunnysuits and hepa masks, honestly it cant be any/much dirtier than an indoor range. I am NOT saying sue the Range. BUT I would bet a jillion dollars that they have some compliance/responsibilty/liabilty to have a good DOCUMENTED ventilation system. All they really need is about 18-20 air changes per hour, doesnt need hepa filtration, just 100% outside air. now if it gets too cold or hot, THAT is a separate issue. picture 40 degree outside air coming in is going to chill the place so they will need to heat it, but ..... maybe they could do 40-60% outside air depending on the volume of shooters.

mswanson223
01-28-2010, 9:23 PM
Maybe they should run the indoor range ventilation system on a independent solar power source. I mean this is California , its sunny almost year round afterall.

inbox485
02-02-2010, 9:19 AM
My Dad who is retired and in his 80's has always been a avid shooter along with all of us. When he retired it gave him the opportunity to do so more frequently so he was going to his local indoor range 3 times a week.

On a regular check up with his Doc they ran the usual blood tests and both his Doctor and him had quite a shock. His lead levels in his blood were "100"

Apparently 0-10 is considered normal. So he had to put off indoor shooting for the last 6 months to allow the lead levels to dissipate.

Just an FYI for all, that amount can eventual lead to other health issues you don't want to have in your body so a regular blood test may not be a bad idea if you are a frequent visitor to your local indoor range.

Magnum range in riverside is going through a lawsuit for this. BTW lead doesn't dissipate in months. It is more like 20 - 30 years. If an indoor range looks dim, dusty, drab, or the air is stale, do yourself a favor and do an about face and never return. Better yet, just avoid indoor ranges.

freonr22
02-02-2010, 9:23 AM
Here's some info on indoor range design. Goes over the issues in this thread.

http://www.wbdg.org/design/firing_range.php

Grampz
Hemet, Ca.

EXCELLENT! thank you

daveinwoodland
02-05-2010, 8:06 PM
Magnum range in riverside is going through a lawsuit for this. BTW lead doesn't dissipate in months. It is more like 20 - 30 years. If an indoor range looks dim, dusty, drab, or the air is stale, do yourself a favor and do an about face and never return. Better yet, just avoid indoor ranges.
yes, my Dad has all but stopped going because the nearest outdoor range is a solid hour drive away and he's not found of a 2 hour round trip drive to shoot. I'm afraid he's at that age. Too bad too.

We had so many great outdoor ranges at one time close by that were closed mainly due to the politics of shooting. Have to love the non gun folk.

bigcalidave
02-06-2010, 2:07 AM
F indoor ranges.... Go outside and have some fun.

The range ABSOLUTELY has liability for keeping the environment safe for consumers. If they aren't making an effort to keep the air clean to the best of their ability they are negligent.

gotgunz
02-06-2010, 2:37 AM
I have heard that exposure to lead in large amounts or for prolonged periods of time can cause sterility......

But nobody has been able to tell me what the downside to this is..... :43::43:

Eat Dirt
02-07-2010, 10:38 PM
Magnum range in riverside is going through a lawsuit for this. If an indoor range looks dim, dusty, drab, or the air is stale, do yourself a favor and do an about face and never return. Better yet, just avoid indoor ranges.


Interesting .
Maybe that's why I only went there once .................

Rover
02-08-2010, 3:35 AM
yes, my Dad has all but stopped going because the nearest outdoor range is a solid hour drive away and he's not found of a 2 hour round trip drive to shoot. I'm afraid he's at that age. Too bad too.

We had so many great outdoor ranges at one time close by that were closed mainly due to the politics of shooting. Have to love the non gun folk.

Why even worry about lead at 80? Makes me sound like an A-hole to say it, but the truth is, your dad will probably not be around long enough for the lead to affect him. For younger shooters, it's a very real, very valid concern, but why stop doing something he likes and is otherwise able to do because of a toxic chemical that mite harm him in the next 15-20 years?

That's assuming his doctor has not advised him to limit his exposure due to a major health risk in the very near future.

Filipino
02-09-2010, 8:48 AM
Thanks for the FYI. No info is bad info.

Should be an eye opener for folks that work (or have worked) at indoor ranges!

Might have to see my personal doctor.




.

Lancear15
02-09-2010, 10:15 AM
Who regulates the fresh air and air change per hour rates? Epa? I do despise the govment but the range does have a responsibility and liability to consumers. I would think also that it would have to have a yearly or biyearly cert

OSHA would be all over a complaint about a range having inadequate ventilation.

Click here to find your local OSHA office. (http://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/DistrictOffices.htm)

Anonymous complaints are handled with extreme confidentiality.

Farquaad
02-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Why even worry about lead at 80? Makes me sound like an A-hole to say it, but the truth is, your dad will probably not be around long enough for the lead to affect him. For younger shooters, it's a very real, very valid concern, but why stop doing something he likes and is otherwise able to do because of a toxic chemical that mite harm him in the next 15-20 years?
.

Because the truth is at high levels lead chronic poisoning takes months or a few years, not 15-20. At a level of 100ug/dl the poisoning is already acute, and will cause problems with your central nervous system and swelling of the brain, which can lead to coma and death. My Grandfather lived to 90, my grandmother is going strong into her mid 90's. I would like those extra 10-15+ years on the end of my life to be good ones. This range needs to be reported, it has the potential to greatly harm too many individuals. While the danger of lead poisoning seems to be inflated in our culture, it is a very real danger when the threat is actually present and should not be taken lightly.

My sources, the chemist over my shoulder and the mayo clinic website.

Eljay
03-18-2010, 8:01 PM
It's definitely good to get your lead tested now and again. Make sure it's a test with a low threshold - if you see any at all you need to think about what you're doing a bit. Next time your doctor wants to measure your cholesterol tell them you have some lead exposure and just want to keep an eye on it - this worked for me even at Kaiser and the doctor didn't even blink at it. They tests kids now regularly too if you live in an older house, just in case they're finding some old paint chips somehow.

AK4me
03-18-2010, 8:06 PM
Now Im glad I only go to an outdoor range.

ktom300
04-02-2010, 3:33 PM
I always wondered about this. Target Masters in Milpitas has terrible ventilation. In summer it's hot and muggy inside with no air moving.
San Leandro rifle range on the other hand has amazing ventilation. Not sure if the filtration is up to snuff but they're definitly moving cool air around.

freonr22
04-02-2010, 3:38 PM
ask target masters for a Indoor air quality testing results..... if they decline, offer to show them the way of the Bay Area Air Quality Management district

Shoot-it
04-11-2010, 7:29 PM
Can a person get levels of lead in their body from reloading?
I think not since the bullets are copper jacketed when handling them.

Seesm
04-11-2010, 10:32 PM
Hope your Dad is ok and lead (less) soon.

Bagelthief
04-12-2010, 1:00 AM
Can a person get levels of lead in their body from reloading?
I think not since the bullets are copper jacketed when handling them.

Anyone??

inbox485
04-12-2010, 8:13 AM
Can a person get levels of lead in their body from reloading?
I think not since the bullets are copper jacketed when handling them.

Anyone??

Absolutely. Unless you are loading total jacketed bullets there is an open lead face and there is likely to be lead rubbed on the copper surface.

Lead hygiene for handling solid lead is as simple as either wearing disposable gloves or washing your hands immediately after you are done working and before eating, drinking or smoking.

Everyone's heard the four basic safety rules of firearms. I'd suggest that a fifth be considered:

5: Maintain lead hygiene