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View Full Version : AK-47 Magazines vs. Saiga Magazines


speeedracerr
01-26-2010, 12:03 PM
I know this may be a dumb question... But im looking to purchase an AK Variant rifle soon and I have a few 10round Chinese (Norinco) magazines that I would like to utilize on my future purchase.

I used to own a MAK-90 until I sold it long long time ago but still have some 10 rounders I like to use on my next featureless AK purchase.

Is an AK and AK or are there differences? I overheard someone at a local gun store saying that AK magazines will not fit the Saiga as they are alittle different.

Thanks for any info you can assist me in.

G.

C_1
01-26-2010, 12:29 PM
AK47 mags will work in a 7.62 Saiga with a few modifications. You would have to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide to the rifle for it to feed reliably. But if you convert it to use AK mags, you have to be 922r compliant.

djleisure
01-26-2010, 12:38 PM
If you're just trying to get 10 round AK mags to work in a Saiga it's not really worth the hassle - just sell your 10 rounders and buy a couple Saiga 10 rounders with the money. The only reason to go through the hassle of semi-converting a Saiga to take AK mags is to use pre-ban 30 rounders (that it sounds like you don't have.)

SVPRApps
01-26-2010, 12:48 PM
If you're just trying to get 10 round AK mags to work in a Saiga it's not really worth the hassle - just sell your 10 rounders and buy a couple Saiga 10 rounders with the money. The only reason to go through the hassle of semi-converting a Saiga to take AK mags is to use pre-ban 30 rounders (that it sounds like you don't have.)

how about the 10/30 AK mags? how would you go around to make a Saiga use the 10/30 AK mags

djleisure
01-26-2010, 12:59 PM
how about the 10/30 AK mags? how would you go around to make a Saiga use the 10/30 AK mags

Same thing as this:
AK47 mags will work in a 7.62 Saiga with a few modifications. You would have to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide to the rifle for it to feed reliably. But if you convert it to use AK mags, you have to be 922r compliant.

Read up on 922r if you're going to go this route...
http://www.dinzagarms.com/922r/922r.html

SVPRApps
01-26-2010, 1:12 PM
Same thing as this:


Read up on 922r if you're going to go this route...
http://www.dinzagarms.com/922r/922r.html

seems like to add in a US made trigger g2 tapco and a US made magazine, US made pistol grip, US made buttstock and foregrip/handguard.

thats my understanding of that. not sure if thats the correct.

djleisure
01-26-2010, 1:19 PM
Yep, that's one way! Basically you need to remove/replace four foreign parts to be 922r compliant. Technically you only need to bother if you take it out of it's original "sporting configuration" which would include modifying the gun to take AK magazines. I guess there may be some gray area if you are using 10/30 AK mags, but I think just the mod that would ALLOW IT TO ACCEPT 30 round AK mags would kick in 922r. I'm sure there is room for debate on that though... :)

My375hp302
01-26-2010, 1:27 PM
AK47 mags will work in a 7.62 Saiga with a few modifications. You would have to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide to the rifle for it to feed reliably. But if you convert it to use AK mags, you have to be 922r compliant.

Not true, filing the mag catch and adding the bullet guide do not violate 922r. They do not make the firearm any less "sporting". Then putting a 30 round mag in would probably be a violation but the OP is asking about using 10 round mags so I don't see a violation anywhere. It's actually a good option because you can get 10 round ak mags a lot cheaper than Saiga mags.

speeedracerr
01-26-2010, 2:06 PM
Hmmm... I don't think im really comfortable doing any kinds of modification such as filing the mag catch of a Saiga just to get my old 10 rounders to fit.

Therefore, I think Im just going to look for a featureless AK instead.

BUT... just because I've been out of the loop in a while, does anyone know if my Chinese Norinco Made 10round Mags work with Todays AK's such as the American made versions?

djleisure
01-26-2010, 2:10 PM
BUT... just because I've been out of the loop in a while, does anyone know if my Chinese Norinco Made 10round Mags work with Todays AK's such as the American made versions?
Your Norinco mags will work fine in just about any AK on the market - American, Romanian, Russian, et al.

speeedracerr
01-26-2010, 2:15 PM
Your Norinco mags will work fine in just about any AK on the market - American, Romanian, Russian, et al.

Thanks for the help everyone! :)

C_1
01-26-2010, 2:18 PM
Even though he is not using 30rd mags, after doing the modification, it has the ability to accept those 30 rd mags, so its no longer a sporting configuration.

Tweak338
01-26-2010, 2:20 PM
i got a question that might be a little off from the OP's.

Will Saiga mags work in an AK?

C_1
01-26-2010, 2:20 PM
Well, if you dont want to modify your Saiga, then just get OEM Saiga 10rd mags.

But since you plan on getting a featureless AK, so you can use those 10rd Norinco mags, and other AK mags, mind as well convert the Saiga to take AK mags, so you can use the same mags in both rifles..

C_1
01-26-2010, 2:21 PM
i got a question that might be a little off from the OP's.

Will Saiga mags work in an AK?

The quick answer is no. But with modification, anything can work. But why? Just get AK mags..

Tweak338
01-26-2010, 2:26 PM
The quick answer is no. But with modification, anything can work. But why? Just get AK mags..
was just a curious question.
for those people that own both a saiga and an AK.
Seeing if their saiga mags can work, therefor they have another magazine for use in the AK.

I do use AK mags, can't beat prebans!

C_1
01-26-2010, 2:37 PM
Yep, especially if the AK is featureless; drop free pre-ban mags are great :)

AJD
01-26-2010, 3:21 PM
Even though he is not using 30rd mags, after doing the modification, it has the ability to accept those 30 rd mags, so its no longer a sporting configuration.

The Saiga in stock form has the capacity to accept high-capacity mags, as there are 30 rounders and other high caps made by aftermarket companies like surefire specifically for Saigas. If it is a violation of 922r to modify a Saiga to accept AK mags, it can't be from just having the ability to accept high capacity mags, as it is already capable of doing so in stock form. Either there's a little more to it that makes it a 922r violation, or it really isn't a violation to just modify it to accept ak mags. This is something that seems a little unclear.

My375hp302
01-26-2010, 4:33 PM
Even though he is not using 30rd mags, after doing the modification, it has the ability to accept those 30 rd mags, so its no longer a sporting configuration.

Curious, what are you basing this on? Do you have a code section or a letter from anyone to support this claim?

C_1
01-26-2010, 4:59 PM
AJD: Exactly, those are aftermarket mags, made after the ban, and difinitely after the Saiga came out, so I guess when they wrote the law it wasnt taken into consideration. Im no lawyer so take it as you will. The way Im thinking is that AK mags are not "sport" so if you use them, they are no longer "sporterized" so then 922r would have to be followed.

my375hp302: Ask if theres anyone here who has a Saiga, that takes AK mags, and is not 922r compliant. Its like the Magpul AFG thing and putting it on a featureless build. Or 10/20 or 10/30 mags and its permanence. Take it as you please. I rather be safe than sorry..

If I had a Saiga, I'd modify it to take my pre ban AK mags, and do a pistol grip conversion (adding US parts).

stix213
01-26-2010, 5:18 PM
Even though he is not using 30rd mags, after doing the modification, it has the ability to accept those 30 rd mags, so its no longer a sporting configuration.

30 round Saiga mags are already on the open market (as rebuilds within CA, and as every day mags outside CA), so I don't see this as being a very good point.

In fact I don't really see the point of wanting to modify a Saiga to accept AK mags if you are just going to use 10 rounders. Yeah if you have a box of 30 round AK mags in the closet alright, do whatever you need to do to use them. Surefire makes excellent 10 round mags already, and you can do like me and make 10/30 mags out of the Surfire 30 round mag rebuild kits. Plus the Surefire mags are all US made so they count at 3 US parts if you are going for 922r compliance.

That leaves you just 1 part short if you want do add something like a forward grip like my Saiga in my sig pic, which you get when you swap the hand guard for a US made one with a rail.

RookieShooter
01-26-2010, 8:43 PM
After reading with all the posts on the 922r compliance, I'm still confused. :(
I appreciate if someone can clarify this question:

- I'm planning to use a Bulgarian 30rd mags with my stock Saiga (no conversion). Is this a violation?

C_1
01-26-2010, 9:04 PM
30 round Saiga mags are already on the open market (as rebuilds within CA, and as every day mags outside CA), so I don't see this as being a very good point.

In fact I don't really see the point of wanting to modify a Saiga to accept AK mags if you are just going to use 10 rounders. Yeah if you have a box of 30 round AK mags in the closet alright, do whatever you need to do to use them. Surefire makes excellent 10 round mags already, and you can do like me and make 10/30 mags out of the Surfire 30 round mag rebuild kits. Plus the Surefire mags are all US made so they count at 3 US parts if you are going for 922r compliance.

That leaves you just 1 part short if you want do add something like a forward grip like my Saiga in my sig pic, which you get when you swap the hand guard for a US made one with a rail.

In stock form, the Saiga doesnt have hi cap mags, but since the aftermarket has them, I dont know how that effects the wording of the law. Especially if they are not readily available, and would have to be acquired as a parts kit.

I guess the easiest way to explain it is like this: 30rd AK mags are not considered to be "sport," so if you stick it in a "sporterized" rifle, like the Saiga, you are changing its sport configuration, and then need to comply with 922r.

I dont see the point in modifying a Saiga to take 10rd AK mags either. But the OP wanted to make use of his Norinco 10rd mags. So thats why he asked.

As for AK74 mags in a Saiga 5.45, same thing, you still have to follow 922r. (No modification is needed for 74 mags to work in a 5.45 Saiga.)

This is my understanding from talking to others and browsing this forum. Im no gun expert, gun smith, nor am I a lawyer, so take everything with a grain of salt.. Or you can trust someone who has 40 posts. Im not saying that someone's post count correlates directly with how much they know, but its something to think about..

AJD
01-26-2010, 9:12 PM
My guess is that it would be a violation with the 30 round Bulgarian mag. What some have been discussing in this thread is regards to converting a Saiga to accept AK mags, and whether that alone is a violation even if high caps are not used. However, with high caps it may be considered to have been taken out of sporting use. Does the magazine have to be in the gun? Is there constructive possesion invloved? I don't know, and the ATF hasn't really been all that helpful in clarifying these issues.

djleisure
01-26-2010, 9:20 PM
After reading with all the posts on the 922r compliance, I'm still confused. :(
I appreciate if someone can clarify this question:

- I'm planning to use a Bulgarian 30rd mags with my stock Saiga (no conversion). Is this a violation?

RookieShooter - unfortunately there is no clear cut, 100 percent way to interpret the law. To be on the safe side, I would HIGHLY recommend that you comply with 922r if you are going to use 30rd mags in your Saiga. The problem is, that it is kind of difficult to do with a stock Saiga. You might want to get US made floorplates and followers for your (30rd) mags - which will count as two parts and then maybe swap out the forend and piston? I think that is the most common option... either way, yes, you really should comply with 922r when you use high caps.

SJgunguy24
01-26-2010, 9:24 PM
After reading with all the posts on the 922r compliance, I'm still confused. :(
I appreciate if someone can clarify this question:

- I'm planning to use a Bulgarian 30rd mags with my stock Saiga (no conversion). Is this a violation?

Yes. The 922r is an import law. If that gun cannot be imported and sold in the configuration that you desire then it must have foreign parts exchanged with USA made componets. That foreign parts count cannot have more then 10 foreign made parts or it is in violation.
A Saiga cannot be imported with a 30 round magazine, you will be in violation the second you lock that mag in.

Easy fix, convert the trigger group (FCG) and a new butt stock. The Saiga rifles have 14 parts that count for 922r compliance. The USA replacment FCG counts as 3 parts, and a USA buttstock counts as 1. 3+1=4....take that away from the 14 overall and you may now lock in a 30 round mag.
Now, Californias AW laws still apply.

RookieShooter
01-26-2010, 9:43 PM
djleisure & SJgunguy24, thanks so much for the info.

My375hp302
01-27-2010, 7:46 AM
This is my understanding from talking to others and browsing this forum. Im no gun expert, gun smith, nor am I a lawyer, so take everything with a grain of salt.. Or you can trust someone who has 40 posts. Im not saying that someone's post count correlates directly with how much they know, but its something to think about..

I asume your talking about me? Well, I may only have 40 or so posts, but I can read. And everything I have READ says that the only violation would come from HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES. If you READ the OP's post you would see that he wants to use 10 round AK mags, (NOT HIGH CAP). I asked you for any form of documentation to back up your claims and you ignored that because you don't have any. It doesn't matter that you think it's stupid to convert it to only use 10 rounders, it actually makes a lot of sence here in CA because you can get 10 round AK mags a lot cheaper than any saiga style mag. The ability to accept a different make of magazine does not violate 922r, it does not make the rifle any less "sporting". Agreed that putting a thirty rounder in would be a violation but again, not what the OP asked.

I challenge ANYONE to post something other than an opinion that says a bullet guide and filing the mag catch violates 922r.

69Mach1
01-27-2010, 8:20 AM
I asume your talking about me? Well, I may only have 40 or so posts, but I can read. And everything I have READ says that the only violation would come from HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES. If you READ the OP's post you would see that he wants to use 10 round AK mags, (NOT HIGH CAP). I asked you for any form of documentation to back up your claims and you ignored that because you don't have any. It doesn't matter that you think it's stupid to convert it to only use 10 rounders, it actually makes a lot of sence here in CA because you can get 10 round AK mags a lot cheaper than any saiga style mag. The ability to accept a different make of magazine does not violate 922r, it does not make the rifle any less "sporting". Agreed that putting a thirty rounder in would be a violation but again, not what the OP asked.

I challenge ANYONE to post something other than an opinion that says a bullet guide and filing the mag catch violates 922r.

I'm still looking for the doc's, but here are some articles pertaining to the 1998 ban on rifles with the capacity to accept military high cap mags.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june98/guns_4-6.html
http://clintongunban.com/FactSheets.aspx?i=80&a=Fact%20Sheet

69Mach1
01-27-2010, 8:34 AM
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/treas/treas-study-on-sporting-suitability-of-modified-semiautomatic-assault-rifles.pdf

My375hp302
01-27-2010, 11:15 AM
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/treas/treas-study-on-sporting-suitability-of-modified-semiautomatic-assault-rifles.pdf

Ok, read it, well, most of it, it's REALLY long. But I fail to see where it says adding a bullet guide and filing a mag catch is a violation of 922r. In fact it says over and over again that rifles that accept LCMM's (Large capacity military magazines(IE Saiga 5.45X39)) were found to be importable. It's mostly a bunch of Clinton era gun hating opinions that don't mean a thing.

ChrisO
01-27-2010, 11:20 AM
My saiga mag works just fine in my lancaster it fits perfect... It's a 10 rounder.