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BRANDON7766
01-25-2010, 9:06 PM
OK, I have been watching the military channel too much and stalled out on what kind of stock to get my AR that I am building....getting my tax return soon and have slotted some of it to go towards a top of the line sniper rifle setup. I figure Ill grab some sort of leuphold scope for it and have been looking at a Remington 700 type setup and the REPR, I also know HK is coming out with one at some point...if you had say...4k to spend on a rifle...what would you get? consider all Rifles under 4k priced the same as in, if it costs less and isnt as good as the one that costs more then who cares. I want a TOP of the line gun to train with for several years.

1 SIG fan
01-25-2010, 9:11 PM
search... covered MANY times.
But, is that 4K with or without optic.

A REPR is $3700ish +tax+ dros etc... THEN another 12-2000 for optic

BRANDON7766
01-25-2010, 9:12 PM
without optics

supermario
01-25-2010, 9:13 PM
OO man there are alot of options out there. But most people start off with a REM 700 gun and then start adding premium stocks, optics, muzzlebrake, trigger etc. You can probably build one for 4k if you shop wisely and ask user AR15Barrels to help with the build.

OR YOU CAN JUST BUY THIS AND BE DONE:D
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/supermariov/dt-srs-338lm-2.jpg

http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/photo-gallery.html

1 SIG fan
01-25-2010, 9:15 PM
i got a Savage 10BAS for long distance. Liked the stock, barrel and trigger especially the box mags over a remmy700, HOWEVER, thats a ford vs. chevy debate. I got a REPR to have a faster shooting .308. Supposedly they have 'as good as bolt' accuracy. I've yet to shoot either as NF is on 4-6 week backorder sooooo.....

a1fabweld
01-25-2010, 9:27 PM
I think $4K will get you middle of the road. Not top of the line. Top of the line will run from about $6K+. If you're looking to own the coolest thing at the range, get a Surgeon, Barrett or Cheytac. If you're looking to improve your marksmanship with a good solid rifle, you can spend $1k & achieve that.

Harley
01-25-2010, 9:30 PM
Larue OBR.

uzigalil
01-25-2010, 9:40 PM
I would pass on LWRC and there crappy Ruger made barrels. I would rather have a Tango-51 used by LASD SEB. http://www.tacticaloperations.com/

Jpach
01-25-2010, 9:57 PM
GAP .308/.260 AR

264charlie
01-25-2010, 10:03 PM
Your are looking for a precision rifle... A sniper is a profession. REPR and other gas piston semi are not a great choice.

264charlie
01-25-2010, 10:05 PM
From the pros...

We see these threads all the time "I only have XXXX money to spend on a rifle, what should I get?"
It's always different for each person, but there are some common things you will see throughout the good recommendations.
In precision rifle competition, the most important things are reliability, repeatability and stability.
The rifle needs to work every time.
It needs to work the same every time.
It needs to be stable both mechanically and physically so you can shoot it well.

We often get too hung up on just the actual gun and scope.
We need to step back and think about the whole system.
In order to shoot matches, you need a reliable system.
This includes the support equipment such as the bipod, sling and rear bag.

This thread should be able to give you some recommendations of gear that's a "known good". The actual gear ranges from very inexpensive to very expensive.
ANY of the rifle packages recommended here are capable of winning matches in the hands of a good shooter.
The added quality and extra features of the more expensive gear just make them a little easier to shoot well.

In addition to one of the rifle packages below, you will want to gather up the other equipment that supports it:
First, you need quality ammo. You can't shoot tight groups without it. Match ammo is expensive. Most people choose to reload for several reasons, the most important being that you get to custom tune the ammo to your rifle and secondly that it's considerably cheaper to reload than to shoot factory ammo.
Top quality reloading gear will pay for itself in savings over factory ammo within less than 500 rounds.
Next, you need good records. That means a log book. It can be as simple as a notebook that you write down everything about shooting conditions and bullet performance observed throughout each shooting session. This will allow you to later recall what you saw in the past when you find yourself in similar conditions.
Then you need good tools. My shooting tools include a laser rangefinder, Kestrel handheld weather station and a spotting scope. These allow me to measure the weather conditions, measure the range to target and my spotter to read the mirage and watch my impacts.
Lastly, you need support gear and a way to carry everything. My shooting pack contains things such as ammo, mags, a shooting mat, a spare scope, an extra bipod that's taller than the one normally on my rifle, a hydration bladder with water for the day, a first aid kit, various small tools to make repairs and adjustments to the rifle and scope in the field, elbow/knee pads and a bandana or scarf to protect my neck as well as allow me to shade myself if I am shooting into the sun.

With all the accessories behind us, lets get to the real hardware.
The following Excel document contains a list of known-good equipment with a proven track record:
www.ar15barrels.com/data/builder.xls
The Excel document allows you to choose a rifle and add on a variety of different scopes, mounts and accessories to figure out a total price.
We would like for this excel sheet to be a living document. Many of the prices listed are below the minimum advertised price of the manufacturers so if you can't find the prices shown, ask around the CaPRC subforum and we will point you to the good-guy price vendors.
Likewise, if you find better prices than the sources listed, post them here and I will try to keep the excel sheet updated.

There are obviously other companies making good gear as well, but we have chosen these specific pieces for their value, quality of construction and most importantly for their consistency of quality. We have specifically avoided items that don't meet the general needs of precision rifle competition. For this reason, you won't see scopes with un-reasonably small internal elevation travel or 1/8moa clicks as these are not desireable in our sport. We have also chosen items based on their upgradeability. For this reason we have settled on the Remington 700 platform as the mainstay of the packages. Other platforms may be fully capable of the accuracy, but none share the aftermarket support so we can not recommend them. If you don't see something listed here, it's because it did not stick-out to us as a particularly valuable or desireable enough to make the list.
There are obviously lots of other quality gear that we could list here, but in many cases, we chose the most commonly available brands, simply because they would be easier to actually buy when you want them.

For those without Excel, here is a sample of some recommended configurations, ranging from very inexpensive to very expensive.

Remington 700 sps varmint
bushnell 321040M 10x
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,043

Remington 700P
bushnell 321040M 10x
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,293

Remington 700 5r
bushnell 321040M 10x
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,643

Remington 700 sps varmint
Sightron S2 4-16x42
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,253

Remington 700P
Sightron S2 4-16x42
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,503

Remington 700 5r
Sightron S2 4-16x42
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,853

Remington 700P
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,941

Remington 700 5r
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$2,291

Remington 700 sps varmint
AICS
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$2,491

Remington 700 5r
nightforce 5-15 NP-R1
Seekins aluminum base
Seekins 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,063

Remington 700 5r
AICS
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,091

Remington 700 sps varmint
AICS
nightforce 5-15 NP-R1
Seekins aluminum base
Seekins 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,263

Remington 700 sps varmint
McMillan A5
Badger M5
nightforce 5-15 NP-R1
Seekins aluminum base
Seekins 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,513

Remington 700 5r
McMillan A5
Badger M5
premiere heritage
Seekins aluminum base
Badger 34mm steel rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$4,683

Gap base custom rifle
Badger M5
premiere heritage
Badger steel base
Badger 34mm steel rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$5,583

Gap crusader
schmidt & bender
Badger steel base
Badger 34mm steel rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Tab sling
$7,068

These packages were selected in a manner to attempt to balance the quality of the rifle with the quality of the optics at a specific price level. Therefore, you will see fancier scopes sitting in more expensive mounts/rings on more expensive stocks. For the same reason, you won't see the most expensive scopes used on the lower cost packages as you should budget your money in such a way as to raise the total packages quality, not just a single item within the package.

264charlie
01-25-2010, 10:08 PM
Not that great of an option... you will have to lift you weld every shot.

OO man there are alot of options out there. But most people start off with a REM 700 gun and then start adding premium stocks, optics, muzzlebrake, trigger etc. You can probably build one for 4k if you shop wisely and ask user AR15Barrels to help with the build.

OR YOU CAN JUST BUY THIS AND BE DONE:D
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/supermariov/dt-srs-338lm-2.jpg

http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/photo-gallery.html

PistolPete75
01-25-2010, 10:26 PM
I had several precision rifles built and have fondeled many others, and if I could only have one it would be a Surgeon 591 repeater action based rifle. It is truely an excellent piece of enginering marvel. You can tell by simply cycling the bolt. The 1 piece bolt and 1 piece action cycles smoothly with no hitches. The tolerances are exact, and you can feel this with the surgeon. Remington 700 actions are smooth, because their tolerances are looser. Another action that cycles as smooth was a phoenix action which cycles like glass. An action that I would stay away from is the tac30. I have bolt issues with my stiller tac30. The surgeon round action would be a better choice then the tac30. After 700 or so rounds, the tac30 doesn't cycle as smoothly as it should. The bolt feels like it's a mismatch with the action. All in all, all actions will shoot well, but the surgeon is perfect.

Hit up any of the respected gunsmiths. Each smiths will have their pluses and minus. Some are faster, some have better pricing, some are more responsive, some have better cosmetic finishes, etc. My advice when picking a smith is to look for someone that is known for their attention to detail. The one man shops are usually the best way to go, but they tend to be alot slower. Expect to wait like a year.

If your looking for the latest and the greatest, hold out for the the KMW Sentinal, if you can get a hold of one. Good luck though.

Another stock that I would look at is the tacmod or KMW's version. The trend seems to be going in the modular direction.

phish
01-26-2010, 2:10 AM
Thank you History Channel for spamming the $h!t out of that damn show.

phish
01-26-2010, 2:12 AM
Not that great of an option... you will have to lift you weld every shot.

look closer...

AndrewMendez
01-26-2010, 2:33 AM
Can you buy the Remington 700P New, not being an LEO?

randy
01-26-2010, 3:38 AM
http://www.tacticaloperations.com/ A pretty good rifle, used locally by the LASD.

THT
01-26-2010, 3:48 AM
If this is your first precision rifle, a 700 SPS will outshoot you right out of the box. There's no sense in dropping thousands of dollars on a precision rifle that you won't be able to fully utilize without alot of practice. The best way to get to that level of proficiency is to buy a relatively inexpensive yet very accurate factory rifle, put money in a nice piece of glass, and shoot it alot. You can move that nice scope from your first rifle to whatever you buy once your proficiency justifies it.

shark92651
01-26-2010, 7:25 AM
I would pass on LWRC and there crappy Ruger made barrels.

LWRC barrels are cold hammer forged out of 41V45 alloy and their rifles are highly regarded for their quality.

Mute
01-26-2010, 7:28 AM
Listen to THT. Don't spend that kind of money if it will rob from your ammo and training/practice funds. You'll never get near the potential of the rifle or your own potential. There are a number of great platforms out there. I have my own preferences, but that's just it. They're my preferences, learned over a large number of rounds down range. Try to get together with other shooters who can give you access to these rifles so you can hone your own preferences.

To start, I'd stick with either a Remington 700 or Savage FP10.

upinflames2400
01-26-2010, 7:32 AM
Get a remington 700ss 5r milspec to start out with. Then a mcmillan a5 or ai 2.0 stock.

264charlie
01-26-2010, 8:12 AM
look closer... I did, the video with guys shooting with muff lift off the stock.

BigBamBoo
01-26-2010, 8:25 AM
...........

rumblebee
01-26-2010, 9:06 AM
I'm glad someone stated that here!! :) Good luck with your rifle, OP

Your are looking for a precision rifle... A sniper is a profession. REPR and other gas piston semi are not a great choice.

264charlie
01-26-2010, 9:27 AM
Care to explain? Have you owned one? Shot one?

I can say yes to both questions and the cheek weld, ergonomics, balance,etc. of the DTA is one of the best I have owned and shot.

Take care,Stan


Shot one at Piru in 308. With muffs I was not able to keep my cheek weld. Maybe it was because I only shot a few rounds (not my rifle).

BigBamBoo
01-26-2010, 9:35 AM
......

sleepur606
01-26-2010, 9:35 AM
Care to explain? Have you owned one? Shot one?

I can say yes to both questions and the cheek weld, ergonomics, balance,etc. of the DTA is one of the best I have owned and shot.

Take care,Stan

Stan,

I know you've got a lot of nice tools in that shed of yours. What's your opinion on the Desert Tactical gun? Is it easy to change over to from a standard (trigger below/behind bolt) setup?

Has anyone shot the new Barret 338?

BigBamBoo
01-26-2010, 10:01 AM
Stan,

I know you've got a lot of nice tools in that shed of yours. What's your opinion on the Desert Tactical gun? Is it easy to change over to from a standard (trigger below/behind bolt) setup?

Has anyone shot the new Barret 338?

I found it very easy/no issue to go from a standard rifle to the DTA SRS. Like many others who just LOOK at the rifle, I at first thought working the bolt would be awkward and worried about cheek weld,etc. That all went away after about 5 min. of being behind the rifle and dry firing it. The trigger was also very nice...no creep and broke very clean. I had it set at about 2 lbs. There is some over travel but again...it felt fine after a bit of time shooting it.

Take care,Stan

X-NewYawker
01-26-2010, 10:06 AM
'm in the market for a new one and I would get either a GAP 308 in a Manners stock or a Desert Tactical Arms SRS. You could probably get into one of these rifles with an appropriate scope for almost exactly $4K

The stock I like:
http://www.mannersstocks.com/Tactical.html

X-NewYawker
01-26-2010, 10:09 AM
I found it very easy/no issue to go from a standard rifle to the DTA SRS. Like many others who just LOOK at the rifle, I at first thought working the bolt would be awkward and worried about cheek weld,etc. That all went away after about 5 min. of being behind the rifle and dry firing it. The trigger was also very nice...no creep and broke very clean. I had it set at about 2 lbs. There is some over travel but again...it felt fine after a bit of time shooting it.

Take care,Stan

The DTA trigger is AWESOME. That really helps accuracy. And bullpup bolt was no big deal to master with practice --

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p54/Fasanoland/_MG_9220.jpg

My muffs are not in the way.

upinflames2400
01-26-2010, 10:10 AM
Can you buy the Remington 700P New, not being an LEO?

Yes you can. Depending on where you live i know that Oak Tree Gunclub in Newhall usually has 1 or 2 in stock.

PatriotnMore
01-26-2010, 10:11 AM
There is a SURGEON GROUP BUY at snipershide starting Jan 04, ending the 29th.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1536826

Vu 308
01-26-2010, 11:18 AM
For the kind money you are talking about go custom.

KMW Rifles
GA Precision
Newman Precision

are just a few smiths we have had very good luck with. If you are in Nor Cal come on out to one of our shoots and you will be able to get behind most rifles on the market out there. You will also have access to every scope on the market from a Super Sniper to S&B and soon Hensoldt.

Get a feel for what YOU want and not some internet hype. What is suppose to be the SHIET might not always be the shiet for you personally.

We had a guy drop 5K on a AI 308win...pretty bad arse rifle right? Too bad he realized after investing he is a lot more comfy behind my McMillan A5.

Test drive before you buy if possible.

Edited to add: The best rifle out there is the rifle you drive well. The one that makes hits and that you have confidence in making the shot with. Just because a rig comes with a 7000.00 price tag doesnt mean it will drive well for you. Just because a bunch of peeps on the keyboard say its the shizzle mean it is. No one cares what you shoot when you are making hits...however we do laugh at the clown that spent 10K and can't hit nothing because some feel the more you spend, the better you will shoot.

YMMV,

Vu

swerv512
01-26-2010, 1:15 PM
how far are you intending to shoot? Buy yourself a 10/22 with all the fixins and learn to shoot if you're just starting out. cheaper than buying a hot rod and burning out barrels before you get it figured out....

rksimple
01-26-2010, 1:21 PM
Get the DTA or the AI if you want to be the coolest guy at the range. Or just have unlimited funds...they are quite nice. Otherwise, go for something a little more economical, put some cash into optics, and moreover, reloading equipment and components. Becoming proficient at long range is going to take quite a bit of practice, and ammo is not cheap.

Get out to a precision rifle match or practice and check out all the gear. You may find something you like, or find that you hate something you thought you'd like. Go from there.

juelz919
01-26-2010, 1:44 PM
I think you should assess your own abilities and go from there.
The people on that show are professionals..
Get either a Remington 700 or Savage, get a nice scope and as you get better put more money into it. I think jumping immediately into all the gadgets and doo-dads will rob you of important basics developed at lower levels..
I doubt you will be able to outshoot either of those rifles I listed.
I think it is AR15barrels has a guide and most of them start with a 700 so start from there and build up.
but I don't know which model he recommends so you'll have to check it out

Evo
01-26-2010, 2:30 PM
Go for the Rem 700 5R, it's definitely worth the extra scratch...
Here's a three shot group @ 100 yards with M118LR right after sighing in the scope, barrel was only half way broken in at this point...
http://www.evingrant.com/pics/3hole.jpg
The fourth hole is just me not concentrating.

swerv512
01-26-2010, 2:33 PM
^^^
where'd the fifth shot go???....;)

Jonathan Doe
01-26-2010, 2:41 PM
My Remington 700 5R and Leupold Mark 4 scope do the things that I need. Cost me about $2,000. I can take on most other "tactical rifles". Besides, it is not just a gun, but it is the shooter's ability to deliver the bullet to the target at the given distance.

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/5topgun/Guns/Remington7005R308WinSmall.jpg

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/5topgun/Targets/01-08-103Large.jpg

Bug Splat
01-26-2010, 2:53 PM
Lots of good advice here. You can't go wrong with a Rem 700 or a Savage with after market stock and nice glass. Both are on the cheap side yet very accurate and will get you out to 1000 yards. Both are capable of sub 1/4 MOA with the right setup and trained shooter.

Nothing is funner than watching and Sub $1000 rifle out shoot a $6000 gun. I build an ultimate cheap rifle off a savage, tasco rings and a BSA scope as a joke to bring to some bench matches our club held. The whole setup i think cost me $600 Oddly enough I took second in a match with it shooting off of sand bags. Now, I'd never dream of taking that thing anywhere besides a bench and I'm shocked it survived the car ride over but it could shoot. More money does not mean better. Yes quality is important but you don't need to sell your car to finance a rifle. Build what you can afford. The beauty of Remington and Savage rifles is you can build them up over time with new better barrels, triggers, bolts, stocks, the works.

upinflames2400
01-26-2010, 3:02 PM
Put that away im drooling :p

My Remington 700 5R and Leupold Mark 4 scope do the things that I need. Cost me about $2,000. I can take on most other "tactical rifles". Besides, it is not just a gun, but it is the shooter's ability to deliver the bullet to the target at the given distance.

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/5topgun/Remington7005R308WinSmall.jpg

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/5topgun/01-08-103Large.jpg

M1A Rifleman
01-26-2010, 3:06 PM
Put that away im drooling :p

Nice group. 41.6 of IMR 4064 behind 168 MK's was my load for a previous 700P.

Evo
01-26-2010, 5:07 PM
^^^
where'd the fifth shot go???....;)

After those three I decided to try my luck on some steel at 300... DING!

Here's the rig..
http://www.evingrant.com/pics/5R.jpg
Scope is a 4th gen IOR 3-18x42 Snipers Hide edition, V-tac rings and a Seekins 20 Moa base.

a1fabweld
01-27-2010, 5:12 PM
After those three I decided to try my luck on some steel at 300... DING!

Here's the rig..
http://www.evingrant.com/pics/5R.jpg
Scope is a 4th gen IOR 3-18x42 Snipers Hide edition, V-tac rings and a Seekins 20 Moa base.

I almost just bought that same scope. It's features are endless. I picked up a NF instead.

Jonathan Doe
01-27-2010, 6:15 PM
Nice group. 41.6 of IMR 4064 behind 168 MK's was my load for a previous 700P.

That is a good combination. For my M-1A or match, I used 41.5 grains. And, I love loading my stuffs in LC Match brass.

5150bronco
01-30-2010, 8:20 PM
great information. looking to rem 700 and one other maybe......

Evo
01-30-2010, 9:07 PM
I almost just bought that same scope. It's features are endless. I picked up a NF instead.

Which NF and why? I got a really good deal from Scott at Liberty on the IOR.
What is it about the Night Force that tipped the balance. I really love this IOR, it's unbelievably sharp!

StraightShooter
01-30-2010, 9:13 PM
Which NF and why? I got a really good deal from Scott at Liberty on the IOR.
What is it about the Night Force that tipped the balance. I really love this IOR, it's unbelievably sharp!


IOR has had some serious quality issues on some of its FFP scopes, but other than that IOR makes a comparable quality scope. Nightforce has an excellent track record as far as durability and customer service goes.

Evo
01-30-2010, 9:22 PM
yea I heard the horror stories on the Gen 1 and 2 versions of these scopes. This being the Gen 4 they should finally be figured out. Also Scott said they've repaired or replaced every single one of the earlier scopes that broke and those only accounted for about 5%. Since it was only going on a .308 I figured it was the best scope I could afford. So far it's been very robust, but it's only got 50 rounds under her.

Pryde
01-30-2010, 10:31 PM
If you're gonna go high end with a $4k budget get either a Sako TRG, a GAP Crusader or a Accuracy International AE. They are all fully tricked out facotry builds that hold their values extremely well. If you go the custom route, you are going to end up spending nearly as much money with half the resale value.

5150bronco
01-30-2010, 11:34 PM
If you're gonna go high end with a $4k budget get either a Sako TRG, a GAP Crusader or a Accuracy International AE. They are all fully tricked out facotry builds that hold their values extremely well. If you go the custom route, you are going to end up spending nearly as much money with half the resale value.

where would you look to buy one at?

Pryde
01-31-2010, 1:11 AM
where would you look to buy one at?

You can get an AIAE from Tacpro or Mile High shooting, GAP Crusader from GAP (Georgia Precision) and I'm not sure about the TRG, try gunbroker.

AndrewMendez
01-31-2010, 1:54 AM
Yes you can. Depending on where you live i know that Oak Tree Gunclub in Newhall usually has 1 or 2 in stock.

Thats about an hour from me, however, I do run thru there on occasion. I will check it out, as non of the local retailers sell that model. Thanks!

5150bronco
01-31-2010, 10:43 AM
You can get an AIAE from Tacpro or Mile High shooting, GAP Crusader from GAP (Georgia Precision) and I'm not sure about the TRG, try gunbroker.

cool. thanks. i have looked around on gun broker. they seem legit.