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wilit
01-03-2006, 8:02 PM
So I'm looking at buying a small-ish safe to hold 3 rifles and a handgun. I was looking on the CA DOJ site for CA certified safes, and noticed the Safari SWS-60 Shotgun Wall Safe (http://www.safarisafe.com/swall.html) is on the list but the Cannon Defender (http://www.paysonsecure.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Defender&Category_Code=Gun-Safes&Store_Code=safe) is not. They are nearly identical. Anyone know why the Safari is on the list and the Cannon isn't?

ArmedWolf
01-03-2006, 8:39 PM
Cause the people in charge of these rules are morons...

...oh you want the in depth reason, no idea, sorry :D

wilit
01-03-2006, 10:39 PM
Hmm... Interesting... Well, I sent the DOJ an email asking about the certificate the compliance of the Defender. We'll see what they say. Thanks.

M1A Rifleman
01-04-2006, 10:33 AM
An even more interesting question is this: if you buy a safe that's not on the DoJ list on the website (for example because it was in dealer stock for a while, or you bought it used), but does indeed comply with the regulation, and you have a certificate that says so - are you legally protected or not? .

Protected from what? I don't recal the requirement that you actually own or use a safe. Am I missing something?

My understanding is this MAY come in to play when you buy a new firearm and need to either provide prrof of a safe or present or buy a new trigger lock. Either way, all you sign is a paper saying you believe you have a compliant safe, and if you have the certificate for the safe, then you obviously believe it is compliant.

chunger
01-05-2006, 3:10 PM
Thanks for posting this thread. .. I've been searching for a compact, fast access wall safe for a home defense rifle, and 'til now have not found a certified option within my space requirements.

Does anyone have a source either via internet store or Norcal local where I can get pricing on the Safari or Cannon unit?

-'Chung

wilit
01-05-2006, 4:47 PM
Well, I got a reply. Here's what I wrote: I'm interested in buying a safe to securely store my firearms, and was
interested in purchasing a wall mounted safe by Cannon called the Defender. I
noticed it is not on the list of approved safes that meet the 12088 regulations,
however it does come with a certificate that states it meets or exceeds these
standards. The safe is nearly identical to the Safari SWS-60 which is on the
list.

Was the Cannon Defender removed from the list or was it never on list? Since it
comes with the certificate of compliance, would the storage of my firearms in
this safe make me legal as far as the 12088 requirements?

Thank You,
Wilit

And the response:
Dear Mr. Wilit,

DOJ regulatory standards require a gun safe to meet either:

All of the following requirements:
-Shall be able to fully contain firearms and provide for their secure storage.
-Shall have a locking system consisting of at minimum a mechanical or electronic combination lock. The mechanical or electronic combination lock utilized by the safe shall have at least 10,000 possible combinations consisting of a minimum three numbers, letters, or symbols. The lock shall be protected by a case-hardened (Rc 60+) drill-resistant steel plate, or drill-resistant material of equivalent strength.
-Boltwork shall consist of a minimum of three steel locking bolts of at least ½
inch thickness that intrude from the door of the safe into the body of the safe
or from the body of the safe into the door of the safe, which are operated by a separate handle and secured by the lock.
-Shall be capable of repeated use. The exterior walls shall be constructed of a minimum 12-gauge thick steel for a single-walled safe, or the sum of the steel walls shall add up to at least .100 inches for safes with two walls. Doors shall be constructed of a minimum of two layers of 12-gauge steel, or one layer of 7-gauge steel compound construction.
-Door hinges shall be protected to prevent the removal of the door. Protective features include, but are not limited to: hinges not exposed to the outside, interlocking door designs, dead bars, jeweler's lugs and active or inactive locking bolts.

OR

All of the following requirements:
-Is listed as an Underwriters Laboratories Residential Security Container;
-Is able to fully contain firearms;
-Provides for the secure storage of firearms.

I hope this information helps.

Sincerely,

Lisa Strange, Analyst
Firearms Division
Lisa.Strange@doj.ca.gov


So it sounds like it DOESN'T need to be on the list, only meet the criteria. And from what I can tell, the Cannon does meet it. I've got a call into them to make sure.

johnny_22
01-06-2006, 5:43 PM
It is a sturdy safe and looks identical to the Safari. I paid 299.95 + tax.

On the subject of kids and guns, I like this comic:

http://www.amureprints.com/img1/Clear%20Blue%20Water/2005/cbw050206.gif

It is framed in my dining room.