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View Full Version : Help. Dangerous aggressive dogs.


lugar
01-24-2010, 6:50 PM
deleted

Scratch705
01-24-2010, 7:00 PM
tell her that until she restrains the dogs, you will not work on the fence and will call the animal control if they venture into your yard.

i think animal control policy is that once the animal attacks a human they are instantly put down.

unusedusername
01-24-2010, 7:06 PM
tell her that until she restrains the dogs, you will not work on the fence and will call the animal control if they venture into your yard.

i think animal control policy is that once the animal attacks a human they are instantly put down.

+1

The best defense is to not need defense in the first place.

Rem222
01-24-2010, 7:17 PM
Call animal control now and document your concern of being attacked. Perhaps a call to your PD as well... Have a record of being attacked.

tankerman
01-24-2010, 7:21 PM
If they attacked me in my yard, I would kill the dogs then call the cops on my neighbor.

johnthomas
01-24-2010, 7:22 PM
Call animal control, if she see's you with a gun, she will call the police, end up getting a restraining order against you and you lose your gun rights.

C.Strong
01-24-2010, 7:22 PM
See, I'm thinking that if I am attacked that I will put them down.
I might not survive an attack unarmed.
She promises to keep the dogs indoors and I don't know if she has until I go out.

It's better to not be in a dangerous position than to be able to survive a dangerous position. If you feel the need to go out spend an extra min by looking out your windows, then when you open the door, make some noises and watch for where they would be coming from, if the dogs are out in the yard, that is the time to call animal control / the police. It is not the time to set up a rocking chair and bring out the ol' coach gun and practice your best Eastwood "get off my lawn".

No reason to invite a bunch of legal hassle, when the situation is easily avoided and possibly dealt with by others.

Also, I would recommend that you make sure to communicate with your neighbour that the dogs need to be secured, in what ever fashion, at all times until the fence issue is taken care of.

Decoligny
01-24-2010, 7:23 PM
See, I'm thinking that if I am attacked that I will put them down.
I might not survive an attack unarmed.
She promises to keep the dogs indoors and I don't know if she has until I go out.

Simply go to her front door and ring the bell every time you need to go into the yard to work on the fence.

It is a whole lot better to inconvenience her to ensure that they are put up each and every time you need to work on the fence, or see that they are leashed in the back yard, than it is to go through the hassle of shooting them and having a ticked off neighbor for as long as you both live there.

Once the fence is up, if the dogs get into your yard, shoot them dead.

twotap
01-24-2010, 7:24 PM
Simply state to animal control and your neighbor,you will not tolerate aggressive uncontrolled animals.And that you are prepared to defend yourself of this threat if neither will listen to your request.. Believe me I have been bit before by the dog that has never hurt anyone.Failure to control their animals is a crime.Then get a can of wasp spray.

Window_Seat
01-24-2010, 7:31 PM
You must call the cops, because it is a life threatening situation. Have the calls documented. Do you have a video camcorder, or a camera? Take pics, I would.

Erik.

oaklander
01-24-2010, 7:38 PM
Bad dog owners give all of us a bad name.

elrcastor
01-24-2010, 7:39 PM
Simply state to animal control and your neighbor,you will not tolerate aggressive uncontrolled animals.And that you are prepared to defend yourself of this threat if neither will listen to your request.. Believe me I have been bit before by the dog that has never hurt anyone.Failure to control their animals is a crime.Then get a can of wasp spray.

same here, I've been bit by the "nice" dog too. I agree with the other posters, call the pd and animal control, and bother here when ever you go out into your yard.

bigcalidave
01-24-2010, 7:41 PM
Really, your first option here is not to arm yourself. Animal control can take care of the situation immediately, before you get attacked. If you're out to shoot her dogs, but didn't call the police or animal control first, you will probably end up in trouble.

biglou
01-24-2010, 7:46 PM
I would go talk her first, let her know if dogs are present then no fence. If I see the dogs in my yard after that I would call animal control. I would also get a large can of OC (pepper spray). If you go in your yard have the spray ready and pistol on your hip. If the dogs attack spray them. If they continue then you shoot. Then you can prove you tried less than lethal first.

Lethal_addict
01-24-2010, 7:50 PM
Call the police and the animal control. State your concern. No matter weather your concealed or not concealed if you shoot the dogs. You can say you walked out with it in your hand as a precaution since you already reported it. Having it is now ok because you reported that you were in fear of your life from these dogs. Explain they chased you in your home once before. Hell, you were going to fix the fence and you put it in your tool box as a precaution. Personally, it would be in the small of my back. I would not let her know I had it at all... Ever here about people being shot by police even while restraining the people whom were assaulting them. Don't let anyone see it... its just asking for trouble but its easily justified and explained once the threat is reported.

DiscoBayJoe
01-24-2010, 7:51 PM
You scared of a couple of dogs? Cmon now. You just need to have your neighbor introduce you to them so they wont attack you.

f4iguy
01-24-2010, 7:52 PM
Kind of sound like American bulldogs, just doing what they were bred to do (guarding breed). No fence.... bad situation I have to agree about having animal control, and PD involved. Just to cover your own self. perhaps meeting the dogs while the owner is around would change there behavior. Most guard breeds will accept you once the owner does.

twotap
01-24-2010, 8:13 PM
You scared of a couple of dogs? Cmon now. You just need to have your neighbor introduce you to them so they wont attack you.

I disagree..The last time I was bit was in my own yard with the neighbor's dog on a leash.The dog drug him over to me and the dog took a bite out of my side.I took my shovel and laid the dog out.He told me maybe it was what I was wearing that set the dog off.The vet bills the owner had after was a great reminder to him to control his animal at all times..I refuse to be a victim of an animal .But if you were to shoot one you may have a bigger problem on your hands..This is not the forest you are talking about it is the city..

evanp
01-24-2010, 8:20 PM
Bad dog owners give all of us a bad name.

True but the flip side of the same coin is that a C.G.N A-- Hole that recommends antifreeze gives all C.G.N. members a bad name as well.:chris:

1rubicon
01-24-2010, 8:30 PM
we have similiar problems with neighbors a pitbulls. Sac. sheriff dont give a sh_t unless they actually bite you. calling animal control is almost as worthless as they send letters to the owners then try to mediate between you and the owners. I found peperspray works the best and no loud bang to explain to the 30 bored officers that will show up and then you get to deal with Jan Scully (believe she is still the D.A.) not to mention all the organization from rainbow pride to some pitbull rights group. Peperspray is your friend, just get the bear size can.

GearHead
01-24-2010, 8:55 PM
I don't understand, if you are on your own property why are you worried about your neighbor's reaction to your firearm?

Mirroring others, I DO think that the best first step is to tell the owner, the local animal control and the PD. That does NOT mean you should assume the dogs are inside or go outside without some form or protection.

I would OC, faster to draw if the dogs run after you.

BKinzey
01-24-2010, 8:56 PM
I don't want to shoot her dogs. They are innocent... only doing what they are supposed to do. But I will not tolerate an attack on me or my wife.

I will call the police and I will call her before I go out.

Thank you for thinking it over. I'm glad you realized you really shouldn't punish the animals for the actions of a bad owner.

Since it's your backyard you can carry open or concealed. Although if your neighbor sees you and calls 911 who knows what she would say. Police responding to "There's a man with a gun behind my house" may not be a happy experience for you.

As others have suggested, contact her first and give her a chance to correct it, then animal control or police. It may be as simple as her introducing you to her dogs.

Should you find yourself in the worst situation, where nobody seems to want to do anything and you find yourself in the crappy spot of having to carry in your backyard:mad: I have a suggestion. If the dogs run at you yell, in your best "I'm the big alpha dog here" voice the words "NO" and/or "SIT." You have a very good chance they will break off the attack or at least give you a much needed pause because at the same time you should be drawing your firearm. Shooting two dogs, or even one for that matter, is going to be extremely difficult.

Again, thanks for considering that shooting animals because of a bad owner shouldn't be your first response.

Mr. J
01-24-2010, 9:00 PM
Ask her to keep the dogs inside at all times untill the fence is fixed. When they need to be taken outside to use the restroom ask that there on a leash. Her dogs have should not have the run of your yard.

When ever you work on the fence have your bear spray close. Get that fence up quick!

Seesm
01-24-2010, 9:01 PM
Contcat her and see WHY she is letting them OUTSIDE when your out there.

Explain to her your in fear for your life. And in YOUR yard the dogs will be put down if they attack you. (Of course only say this after a call to aninal control and the cops)

You have to have a documented complaint to protect yoruself.

Concealed is best as a LAST resort. Wasp Spray will drop them at 20 feet... Have 2 cans ready to spray. GUN last resort again.

mblat
01-24-2010, 9:11 PM
IF it was pitbulls they probably just wanted to play with you..... <shrugs> Besides - trying to hit TWO moving dogs with the handgun - you must be very good shot. I would think baseball bat would be better in this situation.

That is said - on your backyard you can carry your firearm in any manner you want - it is your backyard. I also would think that in this situation you want shotgun or carbine, not a handgun. At least - after you miss you still can use it as a club.

People had given you great advice - call animal control, police - whatever - make sure your concerns are documented.

Lagduf
01-24-2010, 9:34 PM
Obviously you came to an agreement with your neighbor about the fence.

You need to talk to her again and state that you can not finish your end of the bargain unless her dogs are inside her home (or locked up/whatever prevents them from potentially hurting you.)

Just explain it's a matter of your safety, the safety of the dogs (as you mentioned before animal control may put them down if they attack you), and it will save the both of you legal hassles.

Don't go out looking to harm the dogs. But do be concerned about your safety.

Just talk to your neighbor. If she won't comply then it will be time to call Animal Control.

the_donald_
01-24-2010, 10:32 PM
Step 1 - Neighborly approach.
Knock on her door before you intend to go work on the fence. It'll be quite apparent if the dogs are inside, they will bark at the knock/doorbell. Tell her you're about to work on the fence. Also, ask the neighbor to leash them & properly introduce them to you. Discouraging any aggression near you.

Step 2 - if #1 doesn't work.
Call humane society & report aggressive dogs & explain situation. Result: papertrail, they will likely give her a warning & check up on her a few days/weeks later

Step 3 - after the above is done and IFF the situation doesn't change.
Call Humane Society again. Result: extended papertrail, animal control pays a visit, owner gets a citation with a fine & potential confiscation of dogs.

I've been bitten by a neighbor's dog before, called the humane society & they gave the neighbor a citation/fine & restricted the dog from going outside into common areas for a period of time.

Remember, it's the owner that at one point encouraged the aggressive behavior. The breed you describe, also tends to naturally be protective. Not a good equation for you if you're not properly introduced to them as zero threat.

Davidoff
01-24-2010, 11:36 PM
When I worked as a Rural Carrier for the USPS we were issued this:
http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/images/products/muzzle.jpg

I never had to use it, but the some of the more experienced Carriers said it works pretty well.

RideIcon
01-25-2010, 12:20 AM
just let the little puppies bite you a bit

B Strong
01-25-2010, 5:04 AM
Call animal control now and document your concern of being attacked. Perhaps a call to your PD as well... Have a record of being attacked.

100% correct.

Put down in writing as best you can every incident so far, and contact Animal Control and the PD before taking any armed action.

Rob454
01-25-2010, 5:29 AM
Throw the dogs some treats like those bacon doggie snacks. Youll piss her off more if you make nice nice with her mean dogs.Think that will make her mad? I bet it will. Shes probably laughing at your running into your house. Shell go crazy munching some poor unsuspecting girls carpet at a bar somewhere she'll be so mad

But seriously try and make friends with the dogs. Even if you go out and throw some snacks and retreat. I bet it will work. Ive used the peanut butter doggie snacks from Walmart with GREAT success on my neighbors pit bull.

i woudl try that before you go and pop two doggies. if the nice tactic doesnt work tell her again she needs to keep the dogs in the house.
after that you have exhausted your arsenal of nice and call animal control and the cops.
Rob

not-fishing
01-25-2010, 5:32 AM
I work with hound rescue and once had a rescued a Pit that had been miscatagorized.

I found that a water hose really works well as a deterrent.

It snaps them out of the mood and you have plent of "spray" to keep them away.

I'd keep a water hose and pepper spray with me when I worked.

And I might have my drywall riggin hatchet hanging from my tool belt as I work.

mark2203
01-25-2010, 5:59 AM
If they are good, or at least sensible, neighbors, a quick face-to-face conversation with a subtle warning attached should resolve the issue. If not, I would think you're well within your rights to protect yourself. It's not like the owner doesn't know her dogs are aggressive.

I would also recommed building a really strong fence between you.

Fay BUddha
01-25-2010, 7:25 AM
If you touch her dogs in any way make sure it is recorded to show that the dogs were the aggressor. The first thing that popped in my mind with liberal, dog and gun is animal cruelty charge.

BillCA
01-25-2010, 7:29 AM
Most of the time you can address these things by having a nice, frank chat with your neighbor. Even if the fence is entirely on your property, you can ask you neighbor to keep her dogs inside or restrained during the time you'll repair the fence.

Those talks are good times to meet the dogs if they are at all friendly. Spending a little time getting to know them and even playing ball/fetch with them may ease things considerably. However, if the dogs remain aggressive or make you feel too uncomfortable, then leave and hold discussions out front without the dogs.

If you get pushback, simply ask the neighbor what s/he is willing to do and when... so you can fix the fence. If you have to push, let them know that if the dogs are out, work stops until they recovered their dogs or the Animal Control folks do it.

If the neighbor fails to stand by their verbal agreement, then by all means either knock or phone them up and let them know failure isn't acceptable. If you get continued crap, call the PD. Repeated documented incidents of her dogs running loose as a pair and/or growling at people shows her lack of response to safety.

The very last thing you want to be forced to do is shoot her dogs. Mind you, if they come charging over to your yard in an agressive manner then defending yourself is a much more understandable event.

sevensix2x51
01-25-2010, 7:53 AM
in response to the OP's question of concealed or open carry, concealed is the best for walking around outside on your property. nobody needs to know that you are armed, the dogs dont care if you have a gun. it just draws unneeded attention to the siuation. the dogs will be just as dead, as long as you have practiced your draw a bit.
as far as the dogs charging you, my advice (and i havent read every response in detail yet, so maybe a dupe) is to bring an umbrella with you. when they charge, pop that sucker open at them. dogs get the poo scared out of them when a giant flapping monster magically appears right in front of them. stops the charge immediately, and it works every time. my 2 cents...

Rivers
01-25-2010, 8:12 AM
You could also hire a company that does temporary construction chainlink fencing to put a temporary one on HER property, leaving you enough room to work on the permanent fence. And, keep a loaded 12g shotgun handy on your property. Sending her a registered letter stating your concerns about her dogs and that they have already threatened you may also put her on legal notice that they are a menace if not properly and diligently controlled.

w55
01-25-2010, 8:34 AM
Most of the time you can address these things by having a nice, frank chat with your neighbor. Even if the fence is entirely on your property, you can ask you neighbor to keep her dogs inside or restrained during the time you'll repair the fence.

Those talks are good times to meet the dogs if they are at all friendly. Spending a little time getting to know them and even playing ball/fetch with them may ease things considerably. However, if the dogs remain aggressive or make you feel too uncomfortable, then leave and hold discussions out front without the dogs.

If you get pushback, simply ask the neighbor what s/he is willing to do and when... so you can fix the fence. If you have to push, let them know that if the dogs are out, work stops until they recovered their dogs or the Animal Control folks do it.

If the neighbor fails to stand by their verbal agreement, then by all means either knock or phone them up and let them know failure isn't acceptable. If you get continued crap, call the PD. Repeated documented incidents of her dogs running loose as a pair and/or growling at people shows her lack of response to safety.

The very last thing you want to be forced to do is shoot her dogs. Mind you, if they come charging over to your yard in an agressive manner then defending yourself is a much more understandable event.

This...Its better than going out and waiting to be attacked and shooting the dogs. even though I see your point, good lord you would end up te bad guy and who needs legal trouble. its expensive to go to court.

Good luck.

davescz
01-25-2010, 8:41 AM
Take photos of the dogs loose on your property, movies might be better, then give them to the Police or animal control (animal control usually sides with the animal owners, in my area the SPCA is a nazi like organization, more concerned with animal rights that property rights. you capture an animal destroying your property (say scrathing your car, duing thousands of $$$ damage, and animal control refuses to give you the name of the owner after they read the implanted micor chip in the animals body. worthless animals rights folks they are. so maybe the police are best bet. also inform the police that you are putting the womans and here dogs on a no trespassing notice. that should be legally enforceable.
Yes carry a gun, a dog can kill a man. I'd keep a video camera running on a tripod on wide angle of the entire fence repair area so if you are attacked, you have proof that you had to kill the animal.

GrizzlyGuy
01-25-2010, 8:50 AM
That is my intention and my wife agrees. My question is open or concealed carry? I would prefer concealed to keep her from freaking out if she looks out but I don' know if that's legal even when on my own property.

I'm just going to answer this from the perspective of the law, since you've received plenty of good advice in terms of how you should handle the overall situation.

You are legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon anywhere on your property at any time. Your potential legal issue is more about the firearm being loaded rather than concealed. If the yard you are talking about is not a public place, you can carry loaded at any time. It sounds as if you are describing a back yard where people like the post man, UPS driver, or stranger paying you a visit would never be (without your explicit permission). If so, you can stop reading now, you're good to go.

If it instead is a yard where the aforementioned people are often present as they go about their business with you, and if you are in incorporated territory, then there are restrictions on whether you can legally carry loaded or not (12031 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html)). Basically you cannot carry loaded unless you [he] "reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property". Note that "'immediate' means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance".

You'd have to decide for yourself whether the presence of these dogs meets that criteria.

YubaRiver
01-25-2010, 8:58 AM
The fence blew down and my neighbor and I now share a yard. She has two large dogs that look like pitbulls but much larger and more powerful. We have an arrangement for the fence repair and per that arrangement I am dismantling
the junk that used to be a fence.
Despite her promises to keep her dogs indoors during the repairs I have now been chased into my house by these two animals snarling like they mean business. I have no doubt that they do. To them I am intruding in the area they feel they must protect.
I do not intend to go out there again unarmed but I want to be legal.

My question; open or concealed carry? (Sacramento County)
She is a liberal lesbian and I must consider the possible freak-out factor.

Any other thoughts on things I should consider would be welcome

Lots of good advice so far.

It can be expensive to shoot the neighbors dog, even if you are in the right.
Dog issues can be volatile, kind of like dealing with someone's misbehaving
kids.

If I were the owner, I wouldn't mind them
pepper sprayed if they were acting that poorly, it might just save the dogs
lives if they can learn from a bad experience.
You can discuss with the owner how to handle the problem so she is on board. Sometimes it is worth it to go the extra mile.

Dog owners can eventually respond to repeated interaction, be it from you or animal control.

Some kinds of bear spray
are potent enough to permanently blind. For your wallets sake, I would get
the kind mail carriers use that doesn't maim them.

Purple K
01-25-2010, 10:03 AM
Open carry!

gun toting monkeyboy
01-25-2010, 10:19 AM
Don't bother with a gun. Even if you are right, we all still end up losing, as the media will run "Man shoots neighbor's dogs" stories for the next month. And the neighbor will trot out person after person saying what good dogs they were, and how they would never hurt a baby. Don't do it. This isn't the wild west. There is nothing to be gained by shooting them.

First, TALK to your neighbor. Communication is key. Then document that you talked to her. Next, send her a certified letter summing up your conversation and the planned resolution. CC yourself at the bottom, and send yourself a copy in the mail. Don't open yours, but rather keep it sealed to document when it was sent. If that doesn't work, contact animal control. Not the humane society, as they are sometimes not a governmental agency, but a quasi-governmental one. That depends on your area. Document your calls to them, and to your local PD. Leave a trail showing that there is an issue and you tried to solve it. Get some pepper spray. It works. And a garden hose with a good nozzle. If it is at all possible, try to talk with your neighbor before you go out. Failing that, have a second person in the house as a witness incase they do come at you. Then go get the fence fixed. Best case, you get everything fixed, without having to go to war with your neighbor. Worst case, you end up with stiches, a large cash settlement from the neighbor's insurance company. There is no need for guns here. You may be legally allowed to shoot the dogs, but you will lose more than it is worth.

-Mb

jb7706
01-25-2010, 12:38 PM
You have received a ton of advise so I'll not go into that. I can tell you from personal experience that Sac SO and animal control will not be of any real use to you. Do call and do document your interactions with the dogs and their owner, but do not expect to get any real help.

I had one of FIVE (county code allows one to have up to three animals) aggressive pit bulls jump on top of my fence snarling and barking at me one night. I called Sac SO, they didn't care unless someone was bit, they referred me to animal control. AC told me to call back 3 days later between 9 and noon and they would take a report. They would not respond unless the dogs attacked me or my wife/kids in my yard, and then only when they got around to it. That was one of several calls to the County, none did anything other than to annoy the (known gang banger) neighbor.

The worst case is not a few stitches and a nice settlement. FWIW those types of dogs are fully able to kill you, esp if there is more than one attacking. I consider my life worth more than a mutts. I would do everything I could to avoid harming the dogs, but if it came down to it the dog(s) would be buried several hundred grains heavier. You have to be alive to be taken to court.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

davescz
01-25-2010, 12:58 PM
You have received a ton of advise so I'll not go into that. I can tell you from personal experience that Sac SO and animal control will not be of any real use to you. Do call and do document your interactions with the dogs and their owner, but do not expect to get any real help.

I had one of FIVE (county code allows one to have up to three animals) aggressive pit bulls jump on top of my fence snarling and barking at me one night. I called Sac SO, they didn't care unless someone was bit, they referred me to animal control. AC told me to call back 3 days later between 9 and noon and they would take a report. They would not respond unless the dogs attacked me or my wife/kids in my yard, and then only when they got around to it. That was one of several calls to the County, none did anything other than to annoy the (known gang banger) neighbor.

The worst case is not a few stitches and a nice settlement. FWIW those types of dogs are fully able to kill you, esp if there is more than one attacking. I consider my life worth more than a mutts. I would do everything I could to avoid harming the dogs, but if it came down to it the dog(s) would be buried several hundred grains heavier. You have to be alive to be taken to court.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

well Said!!!!:)

ChuckBooty
01-25-2010, 12:59 PM
I think a shotgun would be a lot more effective against a charging dog than a hand gun. But couldn't you just simply look outside and NOT go out there if the lady has her dogs out? And on the other side of the coin...if you're gonna be working on the fence, go next door and ask her not to let the dogs out.

1rubicon
01-25-2010, 1:32 PM
You have received a ton of advise so I'll not go into that. I can tell you from personal experience that Sac SO and animal control will not be of any real use to you. Do call and do document your interactions with the dogs and their owner, but do not expect to get any real help.

I had one of FIVE (county code allows one to have up to three animals) aggressive pit bulls jump on top of my fence snarling and barking at me one night. I called Sac SO, they didn't care unless someone was bit, they referred me to animal control. AC told me to call back 3 days later between 9 and noon and they would take a report. They would not respond unless the dogs attacked me or my wife/kids in my yard, and then only when they got around to it. That was one of several calls to the County, none did anything other than to annoy the (known gang banger) neighbor.

The worst case is not a few stitches and a nice settlement. FWIW those types of dogs are fully able to kill you, esp if there is more than one attacking. I consider my life worth more than a mutts. I would do everything I could to avoid harming the dogs, but if it came down to it the dog(s) would be buried several hundred grains heavier. You have to be alive to be taken to court.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

we must be neighbors, just about what we have gone threw.

Iron Squid
01-25-2010, 2:07 PM
There is some good advice in this thread, but a whole lot of terrible advice given by people who want you to have an excuse to shoot your neighbor's dogs.

The fact that she's a "liberal lesbian" has nothing to do with this situation. I lived in the lesbian neighborhood of San Francisco for a few years, and they were some of the best dog owners I ever met. In fact, one of my friends from that area is going to help me train the next dog I buy.

Unfortunately, dogs are dogs and they're probably thrilled that they suddenly have this new and unexplored place to run around in. Having once left my back gate open, my pitbull and Golden Lab once got loose and ran down the block. They look menacing but they worst they did was lick the hand of a passing lady.

Obviously not all dogs are as friendly as mine are, but vicious dogs aren't as common as one would think and they get a lot of their temperament from their owner. If they owner hasn't been maltreating and neglecting them, the odds that they're going to charge and maul you are in your favor.

But I can understand your concern with unfamiliar dogs. My advice to you is to put aside your own personal feelings towards the owner and go have a friendly conversation with her. She'll probably introduce you to her dogs, and I'm willing to bet they'll be incredibly friendly to you. Rather than give the dogs a bullet, giving them a pat on the head and a dog biscuit will give you better results. :)

Whiskey84
01-25-2010, 2:21 PM
Bad dog owners give all of us a bad name.

This.

diablopilot
01-25-2010, 6:14 PM
She promises to keep the dogs indoors and I don't know if she has until I go out.

Get her phone number. Call her to let her know you are headed outside to work on the fence. Make sure she checks to see the dogs are secured.

Lesbians don't bite much. Don't be afraid of the phone call. Don't bother with the firearm, you'll have to live with that neighbor for years.

dadoody
01-26-2010, 3:41 AM
I'm surprised this Liberal Lesbian doesn't seem to remember or know about the Lesbian in SF who was mauled to death by a vicious dog named "Bane".

Diane Whipple was her name. You would think this neighbor would learn to control her dogs. http://www.sfdogmauling.com/


I would take out a shotgun, but it would be the last resort.

I would resort to and progress down accordingly:

1.) Respectfully speak to neighbor.
2.) Assertively speak to neighbor.
3.) Animal control.
4.) Shotgun.

Your neighbor having large uncontrolled and aggressive dogs is about as bad as playing with a loaded gun in the backyard.

Hell, police take it serious. So should you -

A family friend's pitbull got out of the backyard and was roaming the neighborhood. When the family friend got home from work, he saw the Cerritos Sheriff's Deputies with shotguns drawn on his dog. They ordered him to take it back or they would open fire.

A lot of people here are right that it's better not to bring out the gun as it's intimidating to other people, but the dogs sound just as intimidating to you and others. There is no reason for you to be retreating into your home from your own property, because this neighbor can't restrain her mutts.

packnrat
01-26-2010, 3:48 AM
keep your evil vicious guns locked up. they might hurt someone.

let her know about the dogs getting out of her house. then call the sheriff (most areas they are animal control), just do a phone report...for now.

paper trail...must have a paper trail.

nothing worse than a porley trained dog...other than multi porley trained dogs.

.

tankerman
01-26-2010, 5:46 AM
Unfortunately, dogs are dogs and they're probably thrilled that they suddenly have this new and unexplored place to run around in. Having once left my back gate open, my pitbull and Golden Lab once got loose and ran down the block. They look menacing but they worst they did was lick the hand of a passing lady.
Sounds like you have poorly trained dogs.

gunn
01-26-2010, 5:48 AM
tell her that until she restrains the dogs, you will not work on the fence and will call the animal control if they venture into your yard.

i think animal control policy is that once the animal attacks a human they are instantly put down.

Actually, they don't. Perhaps if the dog kills someone but here's my story on the case of a simple bite:
I was bit in Fremont by a wolf looking husky when I rented a room there in ~2000. The dog had wandered out of its house because the stupid maid had left the door open. The dog was sitting between me and my car; I stuck my hand out, palm down, to let the dog sniff me. Instead, it nipped my hand and drew blood. I chased the dog and was about to run it over (there was no way in hell I would have gone through a preventive rabies cycle if I couldn't find the owner) when it ran home.

Anyway, I called it in and the dog was picked up. It was a husky that had apparently had a history of biting humans once before. All they did was keep the dog for 1-2 weeks for observation, fined the owner for having a dog w/ lapsed registration, made the owner promise to put up an enclosed fence the dog couldn't scale (nevermind that the goddamn maid let the dog out), and that was the end of it.

I HATED dogs for ~4 years after that.

-g

Bud Fox
01-26-2010, 5:58 AM
Just get yourself a dog. This one might work.

http://www.rlnn.com/PhotoAug07/Humor0804/huge_dog.jpg

davescz
01-26-2010, 7:11 AM
keep your evil vicious guns locked up. they might hurt someone.

let her know about the dogs getting out of her house. then call the sheriff (most areas they are animal control), just do a phone report...for now.

paper trail...must have a paper trail.

nothing worse than a porley trained dog...other than multi porley trained dogs.

.

nothing worse than being attacked by a poorly trained dog, I'd keep the gun handly until the fence is repaired. a call to the sherriff wont help you if your being attacked, too late. nail the nasty animal in the gut with 12 gauge buck shot is best bet to stop the attack, not a call to the sherriff.

reminds me of a protest I went to, (anti obama care town hall meeting held in a park.) had a union thug type with his dog walking around standing right in front of anti-obama folks, trying to immtimidate them. I had to get right back in his face and stand the bastard down. I wish i had my gun there, but it was a school zone, so no open carry, but this union thug bastard had his attack dog there just to imtimidate folks. the politican's handler was there, watching the whole time, waiting with camera to see if any of the anti-obama types started anything, I told the guy in no uncertain terms to get his god dam dog away from me. he eventually did as several of us approached him.
the bastard was using his dog as a weapon to imtimidate people.

all this bull about bad dogs must have bad owners is not relevent, if that dogs attacks you must kill it. I know some good dog owners that have had some bad nasty dogs that they cannot let out in public.

better tried by 12, than carried by 6.

davescz
01-26-2010, 7:17 AM
Don't bother with a gun. Even if you are right, we all still end up losing, as the media will run "Man shoots neighbor's dogs" stories for the next month. And the neighbor will trot out person after person saying what good dogs they were, and how they would never hurt a baby. Don't do it. This isn't the wild west. There is nothing to be gained by shooting them.

First, TALK to your neighbor. Communication is key. Then document that you talked to her. Next, send her a certified letter summing up your conversation and the planned resolution. CC yourself at the bottom, and send yourself a copy in the mail. Don't open yours, but rather keep it sealed to document when it was sent. If that doesn't work, contact animal control. Not the humane society, as they are sometimes not a governmental agency, but a quasi-governmental one. That depends on your area. Document your calls to them, and to your local PD. Leave a trail showing that there is an issue and you tried to solve it. Get some pepper spray. It works. And a garden hose with a good nozzle. If it is at all possible, try to talk with your neighbor before you go out. Failing that, have a second person in the house as a witness incase they do come at you. Then go get the fence fixed. Best case, you get everything fixed, without having to go to war with your neighbor. Worst case, you end up with stiches, a large cash settlement from the neighbor's insurance company. There is no need for guns here. You may be legally allowed to shoot the dogs, but you will lose more than it is worth.

-Mb

worse case is dead, or maimed for life. dogs can and do kill and can horribly maim a person. this is one reason we have a right to weapons, to stop an attack by an animal. if attacked, shot to kill, do not hesitate if you are charged by these dogs.

loather
01-26-2010, 11:21 AM
yeah, while I'll agree that bad dog owners can and do create bad dogs, putting the blame solely on the dog owner is misplaced at best. Dealing with the problem without dealing with the consequences of the problem is just as bad as doing nothing at all: the consequences still exist. The fact remains that there are some bad, dangerous dogs out there.

And, I don't buy for a second that being introduced to bad dogs makes you safer around them. I can think of many times where I've been introduced to the same kind of bad dogs around the owners, and while the owner is around, they're complacent with my presence. As soon as the owner is out-of-view, however, the dog reverts to the previous growling/menacing behaviour. That's simply unacceptable characteristics for a family pet. Yes, the owner made them that way. Yes, the dog is still culpable, as it has a mind of its own.

Don't get me wrong -- I like dogs. I think they're great. I had dogs all my life growing up. The hardest day of my life was the day I had to have my childhood dog put down when she couldn't walk anymore. The only reason I don't have one now is because I don't have the time to dedicate to being a responsible dog owner (and thus be part of the problem). I just don't see why people think it's OK to keep animals that are vicious and mean just because they're "cute and adorable."

On a side note, I find myself wondering if this is the same logic anti-gun people use to daemonize gun ownership. The difference here being that dogs are living creatures capable of their own thought process, whereas guns simply are not. Guns won't of their own volition go out and start shooting people, where bad dogs can (and do).

jamesob
01-26-2010, 11:42 AM
ask her if she loves her dogs. if she says yes then tell her that they need to be locked up or she will be diggin a hole to put her loved ones in.

GunNutz
01-26-2010, 11:48 AM
Have you confronted her since the chase happened? You might give your neighbor the benefit of the doubt, the first time. I have found neighbors are more valuable as friends than as enemies. You may also asked to be "introduced" to the animals so they are familiar with you in the future.

Meplat
01-26-2010, 12:12 PM
That is my intention and my wife agrees. My question is open or concealed carry? I would prefer concealed to keep her from freaking out if she looks out but I don' know if that's legal even when on my own property.

Both are legal in your own back yard, but I dont see how you can demo the fence without ever getting on her side. You would have to have her permission either way on her side.

For less than $20 at Lows or Home Depot you can get a kit with a small fence charger designed to keep pets out of flower beds, gardens, and such. They are quite effective. one or two strands of wire should do it.

But why not just call her before you go out to work and ask her to make sure she keeps them in until further notice. If they showed up under those circumstances I would shoot them. A cattle prod might work depending on how determined they are. If nothing else, I would carry a hand ax in a hammer loop. In a serious attack the dog will go for the throat. You feed him your weak arm and let hin chew while you come down HARD with the hand ax on his backbone. Next?

If you have to do this for both dogs you will probably require some stichs. Makes sure the wife knows how to apply a pressure bandage.:)

oaklander
01-26-2010, 12:38 PM
I'm not much on the "blame the victim" mentality.

That being said, I used to do pitbull rescue for a well-known Bay Area group. I've studied dog aggression issues in depth. I've owned 3 pitbulls and a rottie. I'm known for my well-behaved dogs.

I've also never been bitten.

Dogs do not bite unless they have a reason. The trick is to figure out the reason, and make sure that it's not something that you are doing.

Here are some things about dogs that you might not know:

1) dogs don't bite unless they have a reason

2) don't stare a dog in the eyes

3) don't approach a dog that is tied to a rope or chain

4) never walk DIRECTLY towards a strange dog

5) never EVER run from a dog

6) if you are attacked by a dog, DO NOT fall to the ground. Put your hands in your pockets, or cover your face, and turn around facing away from the dog. Do not run.

7) do not approach a dog without its owner present

oaklander
01-26-2010, 12:40 PM
The local GB'ers try that crap too. It always freaks them out when I ask if I can pet their dog. The last time I did this, the dog (a blue female pit), jumped up on me and wanted to kiss my face.

The owner actually got scared! He thought the dog was trying to maul me. She just wanted pets.

Let me phrase this a different way. If the dog had wanted to hurt me, I wouldn't be typing this. If a strong dog really wants to hurt you, pepper spray, sticks, anything short of a 12 gauge isn't going to stop it. A lot of people think that they are being attacked by dogs when they are simply being CHASED by dogs. People also get freaked out when they get bitten and it "breaks the skin." While I agree this is terrible, and a dog should NEVER do that, you should first consider that a large dog can actually bite your hand completely off in one bite. The fact that they don't is instructive.

Given how poorly dogs are treated in this country, it's downright amazing that there are only about 14-15 fatal dog attacks per year.

but this union thug bastard had his attack dog there just to imtimidate folks. the politican's handler was there, watching the whole time, waiting with camera to see if any of the anti-obama types started anything, I told the guy in no uncertain terms to get his god dam dog away from me.

oaklander
01-26-2010, 12:46 PM
The dog was challenging you by placing itself between you and your car. It knew exactly what it was doing. What you got was a "warning bite" for not "respecting" the dog's challenge.

In a case like this, where you are being directly challenged by a strange dog - the trick is to not take the bait. You should have retreated until the area was safe, or entered your car from the other side.

I know you shouldn't have had to do this, but I'm just telling you why you got bit. Like I said above, dogs do not bite without a reason. But sometimes those reasons are hard to understand.

And again, I'm not telling you this because I "watch a lot of TV" or "read a lot of books." I'm telling you from direct experience and observation.

Actually, they don't. Perhaps if the dog kills someone but here's my story on the case of a simple bite:
I was bit in Fremont by a wolf looking husky when I rented a room there in ~2000. The dog had wandered out of its house because the stupid maid had left the door open. The dog was sitting between me and my car; I stuck my hand out, palm down, to let the dog sniff me. Instead, it nipped my hand and drew blood. I chased the dog and was about to run it over (there was no way in hell I would have gone through a preventive rabies cycle if I couldn't find the owner) when it ran home.

Anyway, I called it in and the dog was picked up. It was a husky that had apparently had a history of biting humans once before. All they did was keep the dog for 1-2 weeks for observation, fined the owner for having a dog w/ lapsed registration, made the owner promise to put up an enclosed fence the dog couldn't scale (nevermind that the goddamn maid let the dog out), and that was the end of it.

I HATED dogs for ~4 years after that.

-g

biglou
01-26-2010, 12:50 PM
This sounds like it would be a good show for the Dog Whisper.

mblat
01-26-2010, 12:52 PM
The local GB'ers try that crap too. It always freaks them out when I ask if I can pet their dog. The last time I did this, the dog (a blue female pit), jumped up on me and wanted to kiss my face.

Pits..... most misunderstood dogs on the planet :43:

Vanguard
01-26-2010, 12:55 PM
Some people have a way with dogs, Oaklander. You're probably one of those people. I've never been bitten either and I've had to deal with some pretty pissed off or mean dogs. My family and friends all used to travel to the river and my dad would bring his male lab. The dog didn't care much for travelling long distances in the truck and would get very angry and irritable. He would snap at people and growl like he wanted to kill them. I was the only person that could ride in the back seat with him when he was like this. He calmed down with me back there with him.

My advice to the OP is to talk to the neighbor in a non-confrontational way. Just explain to her that you can't work out there (for her mutual benefit) if the dogs are chasing you back into your house. Don't threaten to shoot the dogs, that won't make the situation better. If you get attacked or attack is imminent though, by all means shoot them.

gunn
01-26-2010, 1:00 PM
The dog was challenging you by placing itself between you and your car. It knew exactly what it was doing. What you got was a "warning bite" for not "respecting" the dog's challenge.

In a case like this, where you are being directly challenged by a strange dog - the trick is to not take the bait. You should have retreated until the area was safe, or entered your car from the other side.

I know you shouldn't have had to do this, but I'm just telling you why you got bit. Like I said above, dogs do not bite without a reason. But sometimes those reasons are hard to understand.

And again, I'm not telling you this because I "watch a lot of TV" or "read a lot of books." I'm telling you from direct experience and observation.

Thanks for the feedback here. I'm pretty sure the bite was a warning bite as well as it did NOT require any stitches. That being said, I like being at the top of the food chain and didn't appreciate the poo-bag owner making it possible for that dog to get free.

Blame the dog, blame the owner, whatever. I don't care. Either way, they should be controlled.

nitrofc
01-26-2010, 1:38 PM
Be real careful with these dog's.
What may happen next is they may think your yard is their yard after they "mark" their new territory. One pass through your yard is all it will take.

I can't stand arrogant dog owners and I've seen my own fair share of idiot Dog owners over the years. The ego's never stop.

If the owner assumes it's o.k. for her dogs to enter into your yard and does little to stop it.......you need to put an end to it immediately.
If the dog's do decide to bite you...it will be quick and they will most likely run back to momma without anyone noticing the incident.

Be ready for the unexpected.

P.S. I am a huge Dog lover....it's the moron's that have no idea how to control their pets that ruin it for those who spend the time and effort to train a well minded animal. Crap like this goes unnoticed until it's too late and something serious happens.

Good luck.

Meplat
01-26-2010, 2:56 PM
All very good advice. But please, the old ' This isn't the wild west' bit irritates some of us no end. It indicates a total ignorance of history. The "wild west" was much less volant than 21st century California.:rolleyes:

Don't bother with a gun. Even if you are right, we all still end up losing, as the media will run "Man shoots neighbor's dogs" stories for the next month. And the neighbor will trot out person after person saying what good dogs they were, and how they would never hurt a baby. Don't do it. This isn't the wild west. There is nothing to be gained by shooting them.

First, TALK to your neighbor. Communication is key. Then document that you talked to her. Next, send her a certified letter summing up your conversation and the planned resolution. CC yourself at the bottom, and send yourself a copy in the mail. Don't open yours, but rather keep it sealed to document when it was sent. If that doesn't work, contact animal control. Not the humane society, as they are sometimes not a governmental agency, but a quasi-governmental one. That depends on your area. Document your calls to them, and to your local PD. Leave a trail showing that there is an issue and you tried to solve it. Get some pepper spray. It works. And a garden hose with a good nozzle. If it is at all possible, try to talk with your neighbor before you go out. Failing that, have a second person in the house as a witness incase they do come at you. Then go get the fence fixed. Best case, you get everything fixed, without having to go to war with your neighbor. Worst case, you end up with stiches, a large cash settlement from the neighbor's insurance company. There is no need for guns here. You may be legally allowed to shoot the dogs, but you will lose more than it is worth.

-Mb

oaklander
01-26-2010, 3:24 PM
Agree 100 percent!

Thanks for the feedback here. I'm pretty sure the bite was a warning bite as well as it did NOT require any stitches. That being said, I like being at the top of the food chain and didn't appreciate the poo-bag owner making it possible for that dog to get free.

Blame the dog, blame the owner, whatever. I don't care. Either way, they should be controlled.

SgtDinosaur
01-26-2010, 4:04 PM
Forty some-odd years ago when I was a paper boy I ran into plenty of mean dogs. I only got bit once when this white GSD ambushed me. Every other time I faced them down and dominated them until they got tired and gave it up. I remember one time I stood there for what must have been half an hour with my knife out until the mutt backed down. Most of the time I just had to threaten them with a rolled up newspaper. Luckily I made friends with most of the dogs on my paper route. I carried dog treats with me often. This one dog would hook up with me when I delivered his owners' paper and follow me around the rest of the afternoon. I think I must be part dog.

tlillard23
01-26-2010, 4:22 PM
Forty some-odd years ago ..... This one dog would hook up with me when I delivered his owners' paper and follow me around the rest of the afternoon. I think I must be part dog.


Or part Dog treat.

upinflames2400
01-26-2010, 4:25 PM
call animal control and they will handle it

Glock619
01-26-2010, 7:28 PM
Like some one said, carry some o/c spray, or bear mace. Do as everyone else says and document and inform your neighbor.

tankerman
01-26-2010, 7:56 PM
Some people have a way with dogs, Oaklander. You're probably one of those people. I've never been bitten either and I've had to deal with some pretty pissed off or mean dogs. My family and friends all used to travel to the river and my dad would bring his male lab. The dog didn't care much for travelling long distances in the truck and would get very angry and irritable. He would snap at people and growl like he wanted to kill them. I was the only person that could ride in the back seat with him when he was like this. He calmed down with me back there with him.Different approach than I take, which is to not allow or tolerate a dog that misbehaves. Allowing a pooch to misbehave invites more bad behavior, it sends the wrong message.

My dog is never allowed to think for a minute that any negative behavior on his part is acceptable.

It's the difference between a well mannered dog and a problem dog.

tankerman
01-26-2010, 7:57 PM
So what if you open a gate on your side of the fence and they "escape" ?....and they kill a couple of kids and an old lady. :rolleyes:

Geeeeeee, that sounds like a brilliant idea.

Vanguard
01-26-2010, 8:05 PM
Different approach than I take, which is to not allow or tolerate a dog that misbehaves. Allowing a pooch to misbehave invites more bad behavior, it sends the wrong message.

My dog is never allowed to think for a minute that any negative behavior on his part is acceptable.

It's the difference between a well mannered dog and a problem dog.

You didn't understand my post. The dog isn't "allowed" to do anything and nothing was "tolerated". Like people, most dogs have different personalities. I'm pretty sure you could whoop this dog's $#@ until the cows came home and he'd still be stubborn and aggressive when he's in a cramped space for extended periods of time. It's a matter of knowing how to handle it vs. just kicking his $#@ all over the place, which is what I think you're advocating.

tankerman
01-26-2010, 8:22 PM
You didn't understand my post. The dog isn't "allowed" to do anything and nothing was "tolerated". Like people, most dogs have different personalities. I'm pretty sure you could whoop this dog's $#@ until the cows came home and he'd still be stubborn and aggressive when he's in a cramped space for extended periods of time. It's a matter of knowing how to handle it vs. just kicking his $#@ all over the place, which is what I think you're advocating.Don't tell me what I'm thinking, it just proves you're clueless.

Kestryll
01-26-2010, 9:33 PM
it just proves you're clueless.
And you're proving that banning you just might justified...

oaklander
01-26-2010, 9:51 PM
I'm not talking about tolerating bad behavior in one's own dog. All of my dogs have been obedient, stable, and loved by their owner (me). They got this way because I am a firm, fair and consistent leader.

What I'm talking about is how to deal with a problem dog that DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU.

If you try and pull that "pack leader" stuff with a strange dog, you might just find a set of teeth sticking out of your head.

Vanguard was saying something related to a slightly difference topic.

But, I think you misunderstood BOTH what I was saying and what Vanguard was saying.



Different approach than I take, which is to not allow or tolerate a dog that misbehaves. Allowing a pooch to misbehave invites more bad behavior, it sends the wrong message.

My dog is never allowed to think for a minute that any negative behavior on his part is acceptable.

It's the difference between a well mannered dog and a problem dog.

Vanguard
01-27-2010, 1:15 PM
Don't tell me what I'm thinking, it just proves you're clueless.


Whatever you say, man. You're the expert on everything. :rolleyes:

tankerman
01-27-2010, 7:26 PM
Whatever you say, man. You're the expert on everything. :rolleyes:
I've seen enough of your games.

Kestryll
01-27-2010, 9:10 PM
Whatever you say, man. You're the expert on everything. :rolleyes:

I've seen enough of your games.

Neither of you listen worth a damn do you?

Let's see if I can get your attention....

gzinga
01-28-2010, 10:57 AM
as a owner of two pitbulls please be aware that dog aggression is the expression of bad training, poor care and handling. Never the less they are doing their "job" and so should you.

Ultimately if you shoot the dogs it will be a ***** in lawyers, police and so on. Try to really work things out with her, if it all goes to **** DO NOT SHOOT the dogs, use spray or other forms. Avoid firing your gun at all costs, and if you do be ready to deal with the consequences

sux though!!

FeuerFrei
01-28-2010, 3:12 PM
Animal Control will deal them. Keep calling and keep written records of every phone call and conversation you have with the AC guys and the neighbor in question.
You might need this material for later if a court case develops.
CYA!
No UOC in back yard on this or you'll end up the "bad guy".

mark2203
01-28-2010, 3:20 PM
It's funny that, I believe, the guy who started this conversation pulled out of the dialog a few days ago and it has since morphed into one hell of a discussion as well as someone maybe getting banned. Bet he has the new fence up, is BBQing and playing fetch with his neighbor's dogs by now and they are planning a Superbowl party together.

csarel
01-28-2010, 3:40 PM
I was just thinking the same thing!!!!

oaklander
01-28-2010, 5:25 PM
Typical Calguns thread. The two things you SHOULD NEVER EVER TALK ABOUT are:

1) dogs

2) UOC

LOL

Anything involving either of those topics gets crazy at about the 2nd page!!!

It's funny that, I believe, the guy who started this conversation pulled out of the dialog a few days ago and it has since morphed into one hell of a discussion as well as someone maybe getting banned. Bet he has the new fence up, is BBQing and playing fetch with his neighbor's dogs by now and they are planning a Superbowl party together.

postal
01-29-2010, 3:33 AM
perhaps meeting the dogs while the owner is around would change there behavior. Most guard breeds will accept you once the owner does.


I have to disagree completely with this.

They will accept you while the owner is present.

Owner not present, you're their chew toy.

My dog is friendly to my roomates in common areas of the house. Roomate sticks head in my bedroom door, dogs growling. They've been here 2 months- occasionally give her treats. My room is OFF LIMITS. I dont train her that way mind you- She decided thats how it is until I teach that stubborn dog its okay. Takes time.

And you're telling someone that a 5 minute introduction by the owner is enough for "most guard breeds to accept you".

Never underestimate how dangerous a dog can be. Most dogs like me, and I've seen plenty I would never trust after a 5 minute meet and greet, then owner goes away and they're in their own backyard guarding- uh uh no way. 2 of them together with a pack mentality? that is a VERY dangerous situation.

Good advice call animal control and pd like everyone said.

Pepper spray frequently works on dogs but dont be surprised if it doesnt work at all. Many people have told me of instances with dogs that it doesnt work.

GrizzlyGuy
01-29-2010, 8:11 AM
FYI, a recent story from PA: Man shoots at dog, owner cited for leash law (http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2010/01/23/pennsylvania-man-shoots-at-dog-owner-cited-for-leash-law/)

A dog owner was cited for not having his dog on a leash after a pedestrian on the Schuylkill River Trail in Norristown shot at the animal claiming it had charged at him Sunday morning.

After Cpl. David Brooke heard gunfire around 6:12 a.m., he went to the trail near Markley Street and encountered 27-year-old William Lee Bennett, who admitted shooting at a dog, according to Norristown Police Department.

Bennett said after he crossed the bridge over Markley Street on the way to the Norristown Transportation Center, he spotted a dog running free that was growling in a threatening manner and headed in his direction. Fearing he would be attacked, he fired at the animal with a Glock brand handgun.

Shooting at a dog or other animals threatening to attack a domestic pet or person is legal in Pennsylvania; however, as a precaution, Brooke took the manís gun and pepper spray he was carrying.

Seconds after the dogís owner heard gunfire, Kenyatta Spruill, 33, told police his Shepherd mix dog came running back to him near the path; however, Bennett didnít see Spruill until after firing at the animal, according to police.

While interviewing Bennett, Brooke saw the dog on Barbadoes Street running loose and coming toward them. Though the animal wasnít charging them, it barked and growled at them.

The Spruill appeared and said he owned the dog and was told he was required to have the dog on a leash. Brooke ordered the man to take control of the animal and detained him.

When Officer Charles Douglas arrived, he was directed to talk to Spruill while Brooke continued to talk to Bennett.

Spruill, who admitted he didnít have a leash, said he had just walked his wife to work and was on his way home in Norristown.

Ultimately, police gave Bennett back his firearm and pepper spray and Spruill was told to expect a citation in the mail for violating the law that prohibits dogs from running loose.