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View Full Version : look what I found - Derek Zeanah, Oleg Volk, THR content.


artherd
01-23-2010, 10:52 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1zwymyykmen

Edited to add: Surprisingly, ask Derek's attorney why you're not reading Oleg's depo too?

Edited to add: updated the link.

trashman
01-23-2010, 11:14 PM
Hee hee...some fun pre-bedtime reading.......

I was amused when Oleg posted some information about the deposition (shortly after it was taken) only to be asked by Derek's lawyer to remove it....

--Neill

triaged
01-23-2010, 11:40 PM
Cliff Notes?

B Strong
01-24-2010, 12:00 AM
Wow!

ke6guj
01-24-2010, 12:26 AM
16 The only thousand dollar a month spiked

17 when Oleg hacked the server and copied the data

18 across. I don't think they were paying any attention

19 to that.interesting:D

artherd
01-24-2010, 12:46 AM
Yes, I'm wasn't aware you could 'hack' your own server? ;)

DigitalAmmunition
01-24-2010, 12:46 AM
Read a lot of it, can't read the rest. Eyeballs are dry as sandpaper (I hate reading large amounts of text on a monitor). Lots 'o drama going on there

383green
01-24-2010, 12:58 AM
I'm about halfway through reading it. But, as I haven't been involved with TFL or THR, and I've only grudgingly made a couple of orders from CTD before, I don't really know WTF I'm reading about yet... :shrug:

383green
01-24-2010, 12:59 AM
BTW, every time the stenographer types "D and S", I die a little bit inside. :p

artherd
01-24-2010, 1:41 AM
BTW, every time the stenographer types "D and S", I die a little bit inside. :p

Ditto :)

MP301
01-24-2010, 3:41 AM
Good read. definately gives you a better idea on what happened..more or less..interesting

artherd
01-24-2010, 4:45 AM
Cliff Notes?

1. Oleg was 100% owner of THR on day 1.
2. Derek paid the server bill so he is 50/50 owner.
3. Derek stopped liking Oleg one morning so he owns the forum outright.
4. Derek was concerned CTD would pay server fees for a few years... then claim total ownership.

Who was it that said "we most often accuse others of that which we ourselves are guilty" ?

kermit315
01-24-2010, 5:46 AM
I tried to read all the way through it, but I just keep getting pissed. Cant wait for a court resolution on this.

trashman
01-24-2010, 8:15 AM
It's an interesting read - it does explain a little why so many of the THR mods went quietly with the coup -- and why they kept insisting to the board "it's no big deal, just a disagreement between two folks", etc etc.

Also - if you take Derek's statements at face value, it appears Oleg wasn't much-liked by many of the THR mods.

To Ben's point, though - it does appear Derek has an interesting lack of business ethics/acumen combined with poor decisionmaking skills ... along with some demonstrated non-self-awareness...

--Neill

triaged
01-24-2010, 8:38 AM
1. Oleg was 100% owner of THR on day 1.
2. Derek paid the server bill...I had gotten about there. Thanks. I'll have to go back and read some of the CTD stuff.

freonr22
01-24-2010, 9:31 AM
tag

chickenfried
01-24-2010, 9:36 AM
:rofl:
16 Q. And did Rich Lucibella tell you that you were the person that should be the domain name registrant?

19 A. I don't know if he ever made any statement one way or the other.

21 Q. Did he give you permission to register it in your own name or is it -- let me ask it that way. Did he give you permission to register it in your own name?

25 A. I don't really understand the question.

obeygiant
01-24-2010, 10:09 AM
nice find, it will be interesting to see how this all went down. time to start reading.

ETA:
Uploaded an easier version to read in pdf here (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/20536642/VolkvZeanahDeposition2009.pdf)

Mitch
01-24-2010, 2:33 PM
Issues? http://www.karensimmons.info/

hoffmang
01-24-2010, 2:38 PM
FYI for anyone who reads this deposition. That is not the way to have your deposition taken!

heh.

-Gene

Mitch
01-24-2010, 2:57 PM
FYI for anyone who reads this deposition. That is not the way to have your deposition taken!

What do you mean? With the plaintiff and defendant in the same room? Or forgetting about stuff that happened only a few years ago?

trashman
01-24-2010, 3:03 PM
What do you mean? With the plaintiff and defendant in the same room? Or forgetting about stuff that happened only a few years ago?

Derek extemporizes unnecessarily at several points - provides way too much information in an attempt to give context to his answers.

He also walks right into (several times) some pretty straightforward logical fallacies of his own creation; namely, asserting that he understood he and Oleg had 50% ownership of THR.org -- yet asserting his ability to shut Oleg out as a decision-maker.

He also kept referring to the Mods as "stakeholders" -- but wouldn't assign them a percentage interest as "owners" - which sort of undermines Derek's implicit argument that he was a member of a larger THR-owning community that banded together to keep Oleg from detonating the value THR had to them as a collective group.

ETA: in other words, Derek went to some length to show that his decision to shut Oleg out was a democratic one -- except that there isn't really anything to back it up, especially since he kept claiming he had a 50% undivided interest alongside Oleg's.

--Neill

hoffmang
01-24-2010, 3:23 PM
When being deposed and doing it right - most of your answers will be less than a short sentence and mostly, "yes," "no," or "I don't understand the question."

Derek admitted unprovoked that he was afraid that Cheaper than Dirt was going to steal TFL in much the way he ended up *ahem* "asserting ownership."

-Gene

Saigon1965
01-24-2010, 4:32 PM
In depo - You don't volunteer anything - Like Gene said and everything should be to my best estimate - Short and simple is key -

artherd
01-24-2010, 4:40 PM
What do you mean? With the plaintiff and defendant in the same room? Or forgetting about stuff that happened only a few years ago?

Running your mouth. You don't want to do that.

kermit315
01-24-2010, 4:55 PM
what surprises me (maybe it shouldnt) is the reaction to this on thr.us. while nobody is saying it, I get the vibe that a few are looking for ANY reason to throw Oleg under the bus, and jump onboard with slimeball.

Maestro Pistolero
01-24-2010, 5:32 PM
When is the next move in this case? Any guesses as to how it will end?

kermit315
01-24-2010, 5:35 PM
I think it goes to trial in march, IIRC.

trashman
01-24-2010, 5:53 PM
what surprises me (maybe it shouldnt) is the reaction to this on thr.us. while nobody is saying it, I get the vibe that a few are looking for ANY reason to throw Oleg under the bus, and jump onboard with slimeball.

What's (unfortunately) instructive is how the majority of the THR.org community (and the mods) responded to the entire mess over a year ago: by more or less conducting business as usual and wishing it would just go away.

If you engage a mostly volunteer workforce to build up a community resource you had better make sure (if you want to retain ownership) that you have all the right legal documentation...

Sometimes successful things do take on a life of their own -- which is a good thing -- but in this case I was somewhat disappointed that 80-90% of the THR.org readership (mostly avowed liberty-lovers and gun owners) just kinda shrugged and went on with life.

We should all be thankful for folks like Artherd who saw the opportunity to show some leadership.

--Neill

kermit315
01-24-2010, 6:07 PM
What's (unfortunately) instructive is how the majority of the THR.org community (and the mods) responded to the entire mess over a year ago: by more or less conducting business as usual and wishing it would just go away.

If you engage a mostly volunteer workforce to build up a community resource you had better make sure (if you want to retain ownership) that you have all the right legal documentation...

Sometimes successful things do take on a life of their own -- which is a good thing -- but in this case I was somewhat disappointed that 80-90% of the THR.org readership (mostly avowed liberty-lovers and gun owners) just kinda shrugged and went on with life.

We should all be thankful for folks like Artherd who saw the opportunity to show some leadership.

--Neill

Agreed. Like I said, I get a weird vibe from some on .us, especially in the sister thread to this one. It seems like they are just looking for a reason to drive the bus over Oleg.

Its kind of frustrating really, because I know what I want to say, but cant pinpoint the words to say it. I'm sure you guys get my sentiment though.

artherd
01-24-2010, 6:24 PM
We should all be thankful for folks like Artherd who saw the opportunity to show some leadership.

Thanks but all I did was help out a friend. Oleg is the true leader here, and I am confident that will come out in the end.

freonr22
01-24-2010, 9:22 PM
well that was an interesting read for sure! will they have a similar one with Volek as well? I guess not as this was Volek being the Plaintiff right?

FS00008
01-24-2010, 10:50 PM
HOLY CRAP!!! I LIVED IN STATESBORO FOR 2 YEARS! Does this Zeannah creep live in Statesboro!?!?!??!??!?! Maybe I should call and find out exactly where...

gunsmith
01-24-2010, 10:56 PM
I hope it fits resolved quickly. & that Oleg prevails.
I miss the old thr a lot. I do not visit the .us one quite as much, but I am living in SF for the time being and there is much to do in CA to save the RKBA

JeffM
01-24-2010, 11:11 PM
HOLY CRAP!!! I LIVED IN STATESBORO FOR 2 YEARS! Does this Zeannah creep live in Statesboro!?!?!??!??!?! Maybe I should call and find out exactly where...

his address is right there at the beginning of the depo.

FS00008
01-24-2010, 11:50 PM
Didn't realize that they did it at his house.

jester
01-25-2010, 9:03 AM
What's (unfortunately) instructive is how the majority of the THR.org community (and the mods) responded to the entire mess over a year ago: by more or less conducting business as usual and wishing it would just go away.

If you engage a mostly volunteer workforce to build up a community resource you had better make sure (if you want to retain ownership) that you have all the right legal documentation...

Sometimes successful things do take on a life of their own -- which is a good thing -- but in this case I was somewhat disappointed that 80-90% of the THR.org readership (mostly avowed liberty-lovers and gun owners) just kinda shrugged and went on with life.

We should all be thankful for folks like Artherd who saw the opportunity to show some leadership.

--Neill

Not I.
while I was a long time member of THR.org, almost from inception, and flew to KCR & camped with Oleg(hes a nice guy)Bogie(also a very nice guy), and about 10 others from there, I stopped visiting the .org site & signed up at .US..
dereck is a pinhead, & I hope that this goes well for Oleg.

Maestro Pistolero
01-25-2010, 9:33 AM
I, too, burned the bridge at THR.org, unless and until it is resolved in Oleg's favor. What a weasel Derek is. If justice prevails, this will cost him dearly.

burl broderick
01-25-2010, 12:29 PM
.

Anyone else appreciate the irony of all this drama
being played out related to a site called "The High Road" ?

.

zenmastar
01-25-2010, 12:33 PM
Depo strategy is to overly describe non-relative answers to eat time, and short answers as Gene described for the relevant answers.

Example:

Lawyer: Were did you go to school?

Guy: I attended Standford University from 200 to 2004. First year, resided in Stern hall but found that too far from my classes. Suffered from flat tires, riding in the rain, and obnoxious roommates who blared the stereo, drank too much, and were constantly screwed the freshman co-eds.

Following year, I stayed...

Lawyer: Did you obtain a degree while there?

Guy: in 2003, during my Junior year, I applied for grad check for spring 2004 graduation. Stayed off-campus at that year because I was tired of freshman coeds and wanted to hang around the med-school coeds...

Lawyer: Just yes or not will do.

Guy: Which degree or do you want all of them?

Lawyer: ah ****!


Pertinent Questions:

Lawyer: did you ....?

Guy: yes
Guy: no
Guy: I do not recall
Guy: Can you rephrase the question, I do not understand.
Guy: I was not there and cannot speculate.
Guy: I was not privy to such information (regarding account and account books if not the accountant).

Above all else, Derek violated the one rule of depos which is not to jump to an answer quickly for every question, but pause each time to allow your lawyer to raise an objection.

Derek's problem was that he's contending of being a 50% owner in the business. If he cannot recall or wants to evade a questions that owners should know, it looks bad for him. Catch-22.

Best response for Derek is to start off with "As an owner and one of 2 managers, I was constantly faced with too many issues".... "I relied on staff ...." In other words, preface your response of not knowing with that or similar tactics. If you read depos from owners and executives of companies, this is very common.

mej16489
01-25-2010, 12:43 PM
Depo strategy is to overly describe non-relative answers to eat time, and short answers as Gene described for the relevant answers.



That was priceless!

zenmastar
01-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Agreed. Like I said, I get a weird vibe from some on .us, especially in the sister thread to this one. It seems like they are just looking for a reason to drive the bus over Oleg.

Its kind of frustrating really, because I know what I want to say, but cant pinpoint the words to say it. I'm sure you guys get my sentiment though.

Well of course, the mods see Oleg as saying he's the sole owner, and Derek wishy-washy of being either co-owner with Oleg, or co-owners with Oleg and the mods/administrators (or some).

If you were a Mod, and saw $200K/yr of real revenue, who would you break bread with? The guy who is saying you get nothing, or the guy who is hinting that you get something but will probably sell you down the river later?

It is pretty easy to see which basket Mal (the administrator referenced in the depo) is putting eggs into.

zenmastar
01-25-2010, 12:50 PM
Well of course, the mods see Oleg as saying he's the sole owner, and Derek wishy-washy of being either co-owner with Oleg, or co-owners with Oleg and the mods/administrators (or some).

If you were a Mod, and saw $200K/yr of real revenue, who would you break bread with? The guy who is saying you get nothing, or the guy who is hinting that you get something but will probably sell you down the river later?

It is pretty easy to see which basket Mal (the administrator referenced in the depo) is putting eggs into.


Thanks for OP posting this. It was a fun read and really would like to read Oleg's depo transcript as well. Kinda hard to judge otherwise.

Have a link to share for that?

Kestryll
01-25-2010, 1:01 PM
:rofl:
16 Q. And did Rich Lucibella tell you that you were the person that should be the domain name registrant?

19 A. I don't know if he ever made any statement one way or the other.

21 Q. Did he give you permission to register it in your own name or is it -- let me ask it that way. Did he give you permission to register it in your own name?

25 A. I don't really understand the question.


Apparently Derek has a problem understanding basic instructions.
I was banned on THR.org for posting this quote from Mr. Lucibella:
Derek had troubles effecting the transfer. It was in this
context that I emailed him, stating

"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."

Derek finally effected the name transfer to GoDaddy.com and that was
the last I heard of it.
At no time was I aware that Derek was acting as anything but Oleg's
personal agent. Had I been aware that Derek was acting for his own
benefit I would never have transferred the domain name to him. It is
my position that Mr. Zeanah had fraudulently misrepresented himself to
me. If he persists in publicly hiding behind my statements, taken out
of context, I will have little choice but to join this legal fray,
recover the domain name thru the courts and pursue Mr. Zeanah for my
legal fees.
Best regards-
Rich Lucibella

Al Norris
01-25-2010, 5:44 PM
Kestryll, here's the full quote that Rich said could be used (from Sept. 28, 2008)
You may quote the following:

Derek Zeanah claims it was my intent to transfer ownership of THR to him. In support he quotes a May 2006 email from me:

"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."


I find it unfortunate that Derek chooses to misrepresent my statements and position, especially in light of our phone conversation of early August. I thought I had clearly articulated to Derek my position and my willingness to join this fray in the most direct and confrontational manner imaginable, should he choose to draw me into it. Derek appears hell bent on that outcome, given his out-of-context quote. If Derek wishes to insist on claiming me as a co-conspirator in his attempt to hijack this domain, I'll be more than happy to resolve this issue in a most efficient and direct manner.

TheHighRoad.org domain was owned and paid for by me from inception in December 2001 thru May 2006. Beginning 2005, I attempted to transfer Domain Ownership to Oleg Volk, as the name was one of his choosing, the staff was handpicked by him, and the original forums were personally delineated, described and designed by him. On December 2005 I reached out to Oleg and Derek replied:
"I guess I've been nominated to handle the renewal.
It looks like it's currently registered to you. Would you prefer to renew it (and I'll send you a check), or transfer it, or something else?
Thanks."

I asked that we transfer. Derek responded on that date that he was unable to create an account with Network Solutions to accept transfer of the domain. In the end I responded:
"I've paid you up for another year. You don't owe me anything, but please effect a transfer ASAP before this falls thru the cracks again."

Justin Guyett was witness to this email exchange. To my knowledge and understanding, Derek was representing himself as Oleg's agent in this transfer. I had no personal relationship with Derek and would never have knowingly subsidized a site for him; nor would I have transferred the domain name to him.

On May 16, 2006, Derek approached me to see if I wanted to co-locate TFL at his location. I passed on the offer but reiterated the need to move the domain:
"BTW, I really need to transfer ownership of THR. Can you assist?"

Once again, Derek had troubles effecting the transfer. It was in this context that I emailed him, stating
"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."

Derek finally effected the name transfer to GoDaddy.com and that was the last I heard of it.

At no time was I aware that Derek was acting as anything but Oleg's personal agent. Had I been aware that Derek was acting for his own benefit I would never have transferred the domain name to him. It is my position that Mr. Zeanah had fraudulently misrepresented himself to me. If he persists in publicly hiding behind my statements, taken out of context, I will have little choice but to join this legal fray, recover the domain name thru the courts and pursue Mr. Zeanah for my legal fees.

Best regards-
Rich Lucibella
Don't know why it was never posted in full ... Would Derek have blown up your computer? Regardless, Derek knew. Rich still has all the emails and call logs.

Kestryll
01-25-2010, 6:17 PM
I remember seeing the whole quote, either on TFL or APS, but when I quoted it I pared it down to the most pertinent part for brevity.

I think that will be less than helpful for Derek...

Al Norris
01-25-2010, 8:27 PM
Probably APS. It was never publicly posted at TFL.

artherd
01-26-2010, 3:25 AM
Well it's in Discovery I'm sure :)

artherd
01-31-2010, 2:20 AM
Updated the link, something happened to the original, maybe somebody's not happy about the truth getting out?

trashman
01-31-2010, 8:01 AM
Updated the link, something happened to the original, maybe somebody's not happy about the truth getting out?

Whoever took it down was probably tired of hearing Cassandradaddy complain through innuendo over on THR.US that it had been posted.

(kidding, kidding)
--Neill

Maestro Pistolero
01-31-2010, 9:04 AM
Linky no work now.

taloft
01-31-2010, 2:38 PM
SNIP for brevity
4. Derek was concerned CTD would pay server fees for a few years... then claim total ownership.

Who was it that said "we most often accuse others of that which we ourselves are guilty" ?

That last bit of the dep. was great reading.

I agree totally. Talk about projecting your short comings onto others, sheesh. You seldom see a good example of the phrase, "hoist with his own petard." I truly hope it blows up in Derek's face and Oleg gets some justice.