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View Full Version : Own NFA items out of state


Frijolito1988
01-22-2010, 8:02 AM
So I was just thinking about this today. Is there anyway possible me, as a CA resident. Own NFA stuff in another state eventhough im only a CA resident ? What i was thinking about is, are there any storage places in other states that allow the storage of NFA items. Persay a bonded storage place or warehouse that specializes in this. Would having an NFA trust , facilitate this ?

My way of thinking is, purchase what ever NFA thing, pay the tax stamp , and put that bonded storage place as the place where the stuff will be kept , and be legal ?

Only reason I think this may not be legal is because if it where....ALOT of people will be doing this and would be a well known option.

joe_sun
01-22-2010, 8:06 AM
Ken Lunde says he does it

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3430756&postcount=55

davescz
01-22-2010, 8:17 AM
whats NFA mean?

Elucidus
01-22-2010, 9:11 AM
National Firearms Act - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

Basically items that require excise taxes to purchase - like silencers, automatic weapons, etc.

Librarian
01-22-2010, 9:52 AM
However, that won't work for NFA firearms.

Fedlaw requires that interstate purchases - which is what is contemplated here, a CA resident buying outside of CA - must follow the rules of the state of residence of the buyer.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

Frijolito1988
01-22-2010, 10:04 AM
However, that won't work for NFA firearms.

Fedlaw requires that interstate purchases - which is what is contemplated here, a CA resident buying outside of CA - must follow the rules of the state of residence of the buyer.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

Ok , so im triying to read the legal writting, I know I cannot bring back these things to CA, these will stay in what ever state they are legal in. In which was thinking, go to AZ, get the NFA items out of storage, shoot at the local range with in AZ, then return the items to storage, and me come back to CA.

When you say that wont work for NFA Firearms, does this mean only suppresors ?

CAL.BAR
01-22-2010, 10:14 AM
Basically, you can't buy out of state what you can't have in your state of residence. Even if you keep the thing in another state.

Frijolito1988
01-22-2010, 10:17 AM
Basically, you can't buy out of state what you can't have in your state of residence. Even if you keep the thing in another state.

Gotcha, that blows. I think the only way " around " this, is to have property in what ever state you want to the NFA stuff and use that address.

dantodd
01-22-2010, 10:18 AM
Basically, you can't buy out of state what you can't have in your state of residence. Even if you keep the thing in another state.

This is true only for firearms. As others have pointed out there is nothing that keeps you from acquiring non-firearms out of state. Things such as suppressors and large capacity magazines are perfectly acceptable to purchase and keep out of state. You can purchase firearms out of state as well but you need a resident entity or follow all the laws of both the state in which you purchase the firearm and the state of residency of the entity making the purchase. The most common entity is a trust though a corporation would work also.

Para45
01-22-2010, 10:54 AM
Yeah you'd have to get residency in another state long enough to physically acquire the NFA items then you could leave them with family or in secure storage, go back to California and be good to go.

steadyrock
01-22-2010, 11:51 AM
However, that won't work for NFA firearms.

Fedlaw requires that interstate purchases - which is what is contemplated here, a CA resident buying outside of CA - must follow the rules of the state of residence of the buyer.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

What about corporations? Given that they are legal entities and can own property, would it be possible for him to form a corporation out of state with himself as an officer, and purchase/store the NFA firearms out of state in his corporation's name?

adamsreeftank
01-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Start a corporation with a trusted family memeber in an NFA friendly state. The corp applies for the tax stamps, you pay for the items, and they are transferred to the corp. They generally must stay in the state where they are registered.

IGOTDIRT4U
01-22-2010, 12:13 PM
Did I ever mention my mother lives in Ohio?!? :rolleyes:

rero360
01-22-2010, 12:16 PM
From what I've heard is starting a trust or LLC in another state, say Arizona or the like and then just store the items in that state, I thought about it when I was living in NY, starting a trust in PA and then getting a suppressor and keeping it in a security deposit box at a bank in PA. If I lived closer to the border I'd consider it now as well.

B Strong
01-22-2010, 4:33 PM
Unless you have legit residency in a state that allows NFA possession by individuals, it's a no-go.

Overnight stays in a hotel don't count, mail-drops don't count, a relative's home may or may not work, depending on your actual residence in that home.

The corporate ownership plan is workable on one level, but calls for a whole different level of complication as to staying legal wrt the requirements of the state where the corporation is chartered.

the_natterjack
01-22-2010, 4:53 PM
Go the corporation route. Nevada costs something like $150 to setup.

Fund the corporation, corporation buys the NFA firearm or device.

Their is still a background check on the corp officers but it's less complicated.

I would advise you to visit http://www.subguns.com for a better explanation.

Brian

B Strong
01-22-2010, 5:11 PM
Go the corporation route. Nevada costs something like $150 to setup.

Fund the corporation, corporation buys the NFA firearm or device.

Their is still a background check on the corp officers but it's less complicated.

I would advise you to visit http://www.subguns.com for a better explanation.

Brian

I second subguns - just don't mention California.

ke6guj
01-22-2010, 8:16 PM
I would advise you to visit http://www.subguns.com for a better explanation.

Brianyes, this is something that way out the norm for us in CA for which getting help from some of the NFA-centric forums such as subguns.com, and the various Class 3 sections at www.ar15.com , www.m4carbine.net , www.silencertalk.com, etc. many of those guys are knowledgable in NFA matters. And the OP's scenario does come up from time to time with people in non-NFA states wanting to purchase stuff out of state via a trust/corp.

tac
01-22-2010, 10:29 PM
I think this could be done via setting up a trust.

I think there are several threads on the subject if you search for them.

adamsreeftank
01-23-2010, 12:35 AM
I think this could be done via setting up a trust.

I think there are several threads on the subject if you search for them.

While a corporation can be incorporated in a specific state, I'm not sure the same applies to a trust. For NFA items in CA like AOWs, a trust is probably the best way to go, but for prohibited items like silencers and select-fire, I don't know if it would work.

technique
01-23-2010, 12:45 AM
You can't buy a firearm in another state.
But nothing will prohibit you from Form 1-ing a lower/frame you already own.
You don't HAVE to buy an SBR on a Form 4. You can make one from any lower you choose on a Form 1.

Plenty of folks do this. Their state may not allow certain NFA items...they obtain a out of state addy, usually one of a parent or relative.

If I ever have to move back to Ca... (please God, never let that happen!) I will leave my suppressors and SBRs here.

B Strong
01-23-2010, 6:11 AM
You can't buy a firearm in another state.
But nothing will prohibit you from Form 1-ing a lower/frame you already own.
You don't HAVE to buy an SBR on a Form 4. You can make one from any lower you choose on a Form 1.

Plenty of folks do this. Their state may not allow certain NFA items...they obtain a out of state addy, usually one of a parent or relative.

If I ever have to move back to Ca... (please God, never let that happen!) I will leave my suppressors and SBRs here.

You certainly can if you have a legal residence in that state.

Example - you live in California and also own a home in Idaho. You could purchase firearms in Idaho completely legally, leaving anything California prohibited in the Idaho residence when you're residing in Califonia.

rero360
01-23-2010, 6:32 AM
But if you don't have dual residency then no matter what state you're in you have to follow Cali laws.

Example: when I was living in NY I drove down to PA to check out a gunstore that some friends had told me about, figured since I was there I would buy a gun to honor the SCOTUS ruling of Heller that was announced that morning. In PA they can buy ARs with all the evil features they want, however if I had bought one there I would have had to buy one of the two rifles that they had that was NY compliant, featureless.

GrizzlyGuy
01-23-2010, 7:55 AM
From ATF FAQ: If an individual is changing his or her State of residence and the individual’s application to transport the NFA firearm cannot be approved because of a prohibition in the new State, what options does a lawful possessor have?
(http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html#alternate-storage)

NFA firearms may be left in a safe deposit box in his or her former State of residence. Also, the firearm could be left or stored in the former State of residence at the house of a friend or relative in a locked room or container to which only the registered owner has a key. The friend or relative should be supplied with a copy of the registration forms and a letter from the owner authorizing storage of the firearm at that location.

The firearms may also be transferred under the procedures referred to in “What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?” or abandoned to ATF.