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View Full Version : Theoretical visit by DOJ for "Multiple Gun Purchase" Form - Let 'em in?


Mikeinblack
01-21-2010, 10:03 PM
In regard to the thread related to the individual allowing the DOJ come in to check the legality of his pistol (an subsequently taking it)... What if after a "Multiple Gun Purchase Form" is filed, the DOJ stops by to ensure that you are still in posession of the guns purchased on the form (weren't straw purchases)? Would it be recommended to take the same position of "do you have a warrant?"

hoffmang
01-21-2010, 11:02 PM
Unless they have a warrant, never, ever let them in. Just say no.

Seriously. No. "Come back with a warrant!"

-Gene

dobek
01-21-2010, 11:09 PM
My personal belief - No One From the Government Is Your Friend

AT MOST: I would most likely tell them I would like to make an appt at their offices and I will bring down the weapons in question.

But I don't even like that ----

I would NOT allow them in my house.

Prior to proving anything I would ask what information and or proof do they have that would indicate I do not still have the guns. I would then assure them that I do indeed still have them - "and thank you for coming by."

If the word "investigate" comes out of anyone's mouth - I think I would tell them that I would like to consult with legal counsel prior to going forward.

Steve

thedrickel
01-21-2010, 11:54 PM
The DOJ will know how many handguns you bought because of the DROS's. The Multiple Handgun Report goes to the feds.

Liberty1
01-22-2010, 1:10 AM
I'll post again

http://flexyourrights.org/

and

i8z7NC5sgik

OlderThanDirt
01-22-2010, 11:53 AM
Just smile and nicely tell them that they are more than welcome to come in and inspect your firearms when they return with a warrant. There is no reason to be mean, nasty or rude to people that are just doing their job and trying to infringe on your Constitutional rights and take away your freedom. Then, stop smiling and say "now get off my lawn!";)

MP301
01-22-2010, 3:04 PM
What everyone simply MUST overcome is that fear of saying no. The problem is that a "Law Abiding" person fears saying no because they dont want to look like a bad guy...why not cooperate when your not doing anything wrong?

The problem is, that it doesnt take actually doing anything wrong to get arrested or your property confiscated. Why, for the sake of appearances, would you even take a chance on cooperating when it could mean a loss of your freedom or property?

Like previously said, be nice, but just say no. If they had enough for a warrant, you bet your sweet a** they would have come with it in the first place - just in case you said no. Why tip thier hand btaining a warrant giving a real criminal time to dispose of the stuff?......while they try and convince a judge to give them a warrant? They wouldnt. If they dont already have a warrant, they are most likely just fishing....

This goes for anything else. A vehicle search is a great example. People think that they dont do anything illegal and there is nothing in thier car, so they consent. The problem is, they didnt take into account that other poeple may have been in the car ( Spouses friends, childrens friends, etc.) and something could have been left behind. "Really Officer, thats not my drugs, ive never seen that before..and that is not my gun under the back seat officer...honest". See how far that gets you..he will believe you and let you go...NOT!

Take a Man/woman pill and just say no. It could save your backside!

Cokebottle
01-22-2010, 3:13 PM
My personal belief - No One From the Government Is Your Friend
This
This
THIS
THIS!!!!


Other than the casual encounter with a cop or a ranger saying "Hello" without breaking stride as you pass on the sidewalk or as they walk past your campsite, the cop that detains you is NOT making small talk to be friendly.

He is making small talk to determine how freely you will divulge information.
Once you've been engaged in a conversation with him for 1 or 2 or 5 minutes, it becomes much harder to clam up and assert your rights when he "casually" diverts the conversation to guns.



Obviously, this doesn't apply to cops that you "get to know" through personal or professional contacts, that you would truly call "friend"... I'm talking about "cold" contacts on the street.

B Strong
01-22-2010, 4:24 PM
In regard to the thread related to the individual allowing the DOJ come in to check the legality of his pistol (an subsequently taking it)... What if after a "Multiple Gun Purchase Form" is filed, the DOJ stops by to ensure that you are still in posession of the guns purchased on the form (weren't straw purchases)? Would it be recommended to take the same position of "do you have a warrant?"

It's a simple question.

Don't make any statement other to ask if they have a warrant.

No warrant. No entry. No exceptions.

tac
01-22-2010, 4:29 PM
Liberty1:

Here is the second part of the Video that you posted above:

08fZQWjDVKE

trilogy
01-22-2010, 4:38 PM
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/31/warrant.jpg
http://www.target.com/Come-Back-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572

--Matt

The Wingnut
01-22-2010, 4:47 PM
If you find any government representative on your doorstep, step outside and lock the door behind you before engaging in conversation.

DO NOT LET THEM INSIDE unless they have a warrant. If they do not have a warrant and insist upon entering, tell them to get one. Don't mention a warrant unless you absolutely have to; power of suggestion.

Do not carry on a conversation other than to find out what they want.
Do not engage in small talk.
Do not volunteer information.
Do not go any further without a lawyer present.

Be polite, be friendly, be a brick wall.

Sniper3142
01-22-2010, 6:41 PM
Be polite, be friendly, be a brick wall.

I absolutely LOVE this saying!!!

:)

sevans
01-22-2010, 7:44 PM
I really think the chances of this are remote. I once had the ATF call (phone not actual visit) about multiple purchases but never the DOJ. They asked if I still owned the guns in question. Since it was only about a month earlier I replied that I did and that was the end of it. No verification or anything else, just a question. As noted earlier the multiple guns transaction goes to the ATF but not the DOJ. Either way I wouldn't let them in my house. No need for the potential drama.

cbn620
01-22-2010, 8:03 PM
I am usually more than polite during police encounters. Best way to be--not just with cops but with anyone. I never give my rights up, though. There really is no need for compromise, and there really isn't any reason you can't do both. Can't see why some police are so offended by people not being so willing to overly cooperate. Boy, if I was a cop I'd smile ear to ear every time I made contact with a person who invoked their rights. People being knowledgeable of their own liberties is such a wonderful thing, and so indicative of society's overall health.

Cannot stress it enough: stand on your rights. If you don't stand up for them, who will? You use them, or you lose them. Our rights are all we've got, and if we don't assert them, we will lose them.

bodger
01-22-2010, 8:22 PM
No warrant, no entry. That should be clear to everyone at this point.

I got a notice on my door a while back informing me that the City of Los Angeles was checking all rental properties to insure that there weren't any unhealthy conditions or safety issues, like faulty smoke alarms, in rental units. The landlord was to accompany the guy from the city.

They knocked, and I told them that the landlord was welcome to inspect my dwelling as it is his right to do so with proper prior notification. But I told the guy from the city that he would have to obtain a warrant, and return with a sworn officer to execute same. Otherwise, eff off. He got huffy as hell, telling me that he could cite precedent that made it so he did not need a warrant.

He left. NOBODY gets in without a warrant.

Anothercoilgun
01-22-2010, 8:33 PM
Simple. NO.

zhyla
01-23-2010, 9:19 AM
Unless they have a warrant, never, ever let them in. Just say no.

Seriously. No. "Come back with a warrant!"

-Gene

In my case I just say "Hey, can't you guys read?"

http://www.forcounsel.com/products/8220.jpg

FortCourageArmory
01-23-2010, 12:22 PM
No entry without a warrant, not even for a casual conversation. I have several friends on the local PD that frequent my store. They have told me "Do not let a LEO into your house unless you have to (warrant or emergency). Nothing good ever comes of it for you."

tenpercentfirearms
01-24-2010, 5:35 AM
The DOJ doesn't get a copy of the multiple handguns form, that is the ATF.

However, we are splitting hairs as you would tell either one that you do not consent to searches. I like the mention here that you shouldn't even say the word warrant. Just say, "I don't consent to searches, you may not come inside. I hear my baby is awake. Have a nice day."

Lagduf
01-24-2010, 5:51 AM
Are you legally obligated to reply to the ATF if they called (or came to your door) regarding a multiple purchase of handguns?

GrizzlyGuy
01-24-2010, 6:07 AM
Are you legally obligated to reply to the ATF if they called (or came to your door) regarding a multiple purchase of handguns?

No. They are agents of the state and 5A applies.

Cokebottle
01-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Are you legally obligated to reply to the ATF if they called (or came to your door) regarding a multiple purchase of handguns?
Reply?
Never.
5A
Your wife is also not obligated to speak to them.

Allow them entry?
4A... only with a warrant.

SanPedroShooter
01-24-2010, 11:05 AM
No warrant, no entry. That should be clear to everyone at this point.

I got a notice on my door a while back informing me that the City of Los Angeles was checking all rental properties to insure that there weren't any unhealthy conditions or safety issues, like faulty smoke alarms, in rental units. The landlord was to accompany the guy from the city.

They knocked, and I told them that the landlord was welcome to inspect my dwelling as it is his right to do so with proper prior notification. But I told the guy from the city that he would have to obtain a warrant, and return with a sworn officer to execute same. Otherwise, eff off. He got huffy as hell, telling me that he could cite precedent that made it so he did not need a warrant.

He left. NOBODY gets in without a warrant.

i got the same notice. it made me pretty uncomfortable, but i didnt think about refusing. now that i've started collecting firearms including ebr's i might think twice. can you be evicted for having guns in a rental? in this city i wouldnt be supprised.

Cokebottle
01-24-2010, 11:18 AM
can you be evicted for having guns in a rental? in this city i wouldnt be supprised.
Only if the prohibition is documented in the terms of your rental/lease agreement.

SanPedroShooter
01-24-2010, 11:24 AM
good point. i'll read through it again. i guess that property owners can restrict/prohibt any thing they want, as long as they dont violate the fair housing act (which should cover 2a IMO). i know a question about firearms was not on my lease agreament.

Cokebottle
01-24-2010, 11:38 AM
Probably wouldn't be a question... it would be in the full page of fine print:

By entering into agreement with Brady Properties INC, I voluntarily and with full knowledge agree that the following conditions will be grounds for termination of this agreement without prior notice and subject to eviction within 72 hours of The Brady Management Company becoming aware of the existence of such conditions: Any activity deemed illegal under Federal, State, County, or Municipal laws. Participation in any type of business activity. Possession of any type of firearm