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View Full Version : Can a pistol be classified as an AW based on characteristics only?


bubbapug1
01-21-2010, 9:58 PM
I am having a spirited debate with another member about pistols and designation of the same as an AW due to characteristics.

But we go it worked out

xounlistedxox
01-21-2010, 10:01 PM
I still need some education on this topic, so I'll post for subscription. I've seen AR type pistols and would like to get one, but no one around here is doing them yet

Lagduf
01-21-2010, 10:03 PM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

Yes, they can.

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding PC section 12276, assault weapon shall
also mean the following: Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward
handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the
barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or
her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity
to accept more than 10 rounds.

Hopi
01-21-2010, 10:03 PM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

BroncoBob
01-21-2010, 10:04 PM
Well that about closes this subject for now

socalgunrunner
01-21-2010, 10:12 PM
It does not need listed by name to be classified as an AW. See post #3 above.

The SP89 only becomes legal if it has a mag lock device.

bubbapug1
01-21-2010, 10:22 PM
aaa

Lagduf
01-21-2010, 10:24 PM
Thats the question - is the HK legal to own even if it wasn't registered as an AW???...

I know a pistol or rifle is an AW if it has certain features, but it can't be outlawed forever like a listed AW...A listed AW can never be fit with a BB to be legal, its just plain illegal no matter what you do with it unless it was registered.

So the answer is the HK SP89 is legal with a BB and doens't have to be registered as an AW in California...

If I understand correctly the weapon is legal if it has a Magazine Lock or if it has been converted to be a single shot (not semi-automatic) weapon.

This is no different from the AR and AK pistols that are legally in this state and aren't assault weapons.

bubbapug1
01-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Wiped

bigcalidave
01-21-2010, 10:31 PM
How did this leave the other thread lol. No its not banned by name. Yes its as legal as any other BB equipped pistol with other aw features. No detachable mag no aw.

aplinker
01-21-2010, 10:32 PM
3 separate issues that are being convoluted...

1.) Handguns can be classified as AW by features if it is semi-auto with a detachable mag.
2.) A semi-auto handgun can have features if the magazine is fixed (by BB)
3.) A handgun that isn't roster certified can not be purchased, unless one goes through the "single shot exemption."

So...
a.) yes, you can own an SP89, as it's not banned by make/model
b.) acquiring takes some hoop jumping (single shot)
c.) due to it being semi-auto with the magazine well outside the pistol grip, the SP89 must have a locked magazine to not be an AW.

Lagduf
01-21-2010, 10:34 PM
Which out of state dealers convert pistols to single shot status?

Hopi
01-21-2010, 10:40 PM
3 separate issues that are being convoluted...

1.) Handguns can be classified as AW by features if it is semi-auto with a detachable mag.
2.) A semi-auto handgun can have features if the magazine is fixed (by BB)
3.) A handgun that isn't roster certified can not be purchased, unless one goes through the "single shot exemption."

So...
a.) yes, you can own an SP89, as it's not banned by make/model
b.) acquiring takes some hoop jumping (single shot)
c.) due to it being semi-auto with the magazine well outside the pistol grip, the SP89 must have a locked magazine to not be an AW.


under 'b'....if a listed-by-name pistol is a single shot when imported, how can it be an AW if it's not semi-auto......;)

socalgunrunner
01-21-2010, 10:42 PM
Thats not what you posted earlier in the day, you said it had to be a registered AW...it doesn't.

Did you post this??? Or was it a flashback from the 70's for me only??

The SP89 is an AW by characteristics. The previous owner (if residing in CA) would have had to register it as such in the year 2000. If he did not have it de-registered as an A/W prior to selling it to the OP, then this would have caused a red flag. Simply adding a mag lock device isn't going to cut it. As we all know, it is illegal to transfer AW's in this state.

You're taking my post out of context. The OP in that thread had his gun taken by the DOJ because they needed to determine if it was an AW. I was speculating that maybe it was possible the previous owner of said firearm did not un-register it as an AW prior to selling it to another person. This would have definitely caused a red flag to go up at the DOJ.

I own one of these myself. I bought it new in 1990. I did in fact need to register it as an AW before January 23, 2001. There were no magazine locks available at that time to my knowledge.

wildhawker
01-21-2010, 10:45 PM
under 'b'....if a listed-by-name pistol is a single shot when imported, how can it be an AW if it's not semi-auto......;)

FTW

Lagduf
01-21-2010, 10:47 PM
You're taking my post out of context. The OP in that thread had his gun taken by the DOJ because they needed to determine if it was an AW. I was speculating that maybe it was possible the previous owner of said firearm did not un-register it as an AW prior to selling it to another person. This would have definitely caused a red flag to go up at the DOJ.

I own one of these myself. I bought it new in 1990. I did in fact need to register it as an AW before January 23, 2001. There were no magazine locks available at that time to my knowledge.

Can you even "unregister" a RAW that is only a RAW because of its features (ie it's not a named AW) by eliminating said features (such as by using a magazine lock)?

bubbapug1
01-21-2010, 10:47 PM
Like Mark Twain said, there are two times when a man shouldn't speculate...when he can afford to and when he can't...and let's add, when its an AW issue with the DOJ...I just wanted clarification and I think we got it.

So I will wipe this post clean now.....

SKSer
01-21-2010, 10:54 PM
Why was the other thread closed? Did anyone find out whats going on with this, I read all the pages and didnt see a post back from the OP.

Lagduf
01-21-2010, 10:55 PM
Why was the other thread closed? Did anyone find out whats going on with this, I read all the pages and didnt see a post back from the OP.

It's most likely closed for legal reasons as I imagine the CGF is looking in to this case,

socalgunrunner
01-21-2010, 10:57 PM
Can you even "unregister" a RAW that is only a RAW because of its features (ie it's not a named AW) by eliminating said features (such as by using a magazine lock)?

According to the DOJ website the answer is yes. However, I know of a couple of people that have tried without any success. Not that they were denied or anything. They just never received any response to their repeated requests.

If I registered my SB 23 assault weapon and now I remove the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, can I cancel the registration?

Yes. If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB 23 assault weapon are removed, it is no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon.

SKSer
01-21-2010, 11:02 PM
It's most likely closed for legal reasons as I imagine the CGF is looking in to this case,

hopefully we eventually figure out what is goin on.

Lagduf
01-21-2010, 11:05 PM
According to the DOJ website the answer is yes. However, I know of a couple of people that have tried without any success. Not that they were denied or anything. They just never received any response to their repeated requests.

If I registered my SB 23 assault weapon and now I remove the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, can I cancel the registration?

Yes. If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB 23 assault weapon are removed, it is no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon.

Interesting.

I suppose the CA DOJ provides no official means to "unregister" a RAW? Just have to send them a letter and hope you get a response?

Which it seems doesn't work. Heh.

aplinker
01-21-2010, 11:30 PM
under 'b'....if a listed-by-name pistol is a single shot when imported, how can it be an AW if it's not semi-auto......;)

You know we've had this discussion before... on rifles, too...

Above my threshold of comfort, but, by letter of law, a bolt-action or single-shot version of a listed AW is not an AW.

Hopi
01-21-2010, 11:43 PM
You know we've had this discussion before... on rifles, too...

Above my threshold of comfort, but, by letter of law, a bolt-action or single-shot version of a listed AW is not an AW.

I know. That's why I threw you a winking smiley.....:D

aplinker
01-21-2010, 11:44 PM
I know. That's why I threw you a winking smiley.....:D

Good cause I thought it was because you wanna get spooned.

Hopi
01-21-2010, 11:47 PM
Good cause I thought it was because you wanna get spooned.


:eek:


Fwiw, i'm always the big spoon.....