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professorhard
01-20-2010, 5:37 PM
hey guys I was just looking for some statitics on estimates of how many Americans and/or Californians carry concealed weapons without a permit/license. I know it's pretty hard to estimate accurately and I would assume it is most common in restrictive counties/states but just wanted to see if there were any estimates out there. Thanks

otteray
01-20-2010, 6:21 PM
Other than gang bangers, thieves and your run of the mill rascals, I would guesstimate that 99.9% of the remaining law- abiding Californian population do not want to spend time in jail, pay fines and lawyer fees, lose their jobs, lose the right to own firearms, maybe wreck their marriage, lose their home, etc.
That's my unofficial, unsupported, seat-of-the-pants estimate.

Librarian
01-20-2010, 6:44 PM
If California were like other places - and we know that's fairly unlikely - we might guess that somewhere around 2-4% of adults are already carrying at least some of the time.

That's one explanation offered for the slight magnitude of crime changes when a jurisdiction liberalizes licenses - those who get them are often the ones who already carry, so the number of carriers for criminals to encounter doesn't change much.

But that's just a guess.

p7m8jg
01-20-2010, 6:45 PM
I think most people don't carry concealed without a permit. Some do, of course. I once had a client in East Palo Alto when it was designated the murder capital of the US. He always carried a handgun under his seat. when stopped by CHP for speeding he told them where he lived & why he had the gun.

They let him go.

welchy
01-20-2010, 7:22 PM
Other than gang bangers, thieves and your run of the mill rascals, I would guesstimate that 99.9% of the remaining law- abiding Californian population do not want to spend time in jail, pay fines and lawyer fees, lose their jobs, lose the right to own firearms, maybe wreck their marriage, lose their home, etc.
That's my unofficial, unsupported, seat-of-the-pants estimate.

Isn't carrying without a permit a misdemeanor?

Desert_Rat
01-20-2010, 8:08 PM
I CCW'd w/o a premit once.Then I rememberd to get My wallet w/permit inside. :D

bigcalidave
01-20-2010, 8:37 PM
Other than gang bangers, thieves and your run of the mill rascals, I would guesstimate that 99.9% of the remaining law- abiding Californian population do not want to spend time in jail, pay fines and lawyer fees, lose their jobs, lose the right to own firearms, maybe wreck their marriage, lose their home, etc.
That's my unofficial, unsupported, seat-of-the-pants estimate.

I'd bet it's significantly more than .1 percent, especially when ccw without a permit is a misdemeanor without loss of rights. I'd bet the numbers are similar between criminals carrying weapons and unlicensed non criminals. We need to get the number of non criminals carrying to a higher level to really help the bigger situation.

otteray
01-21-2010, 4:56 AM
Found these statistics:
http://ag.ca.gov/cjsc/publications/misc/cfc03/12025.pdf

paul0660
01-21-2010, 6:13 AM
25 years ago I was hauling containers around the ports of Oakland and San Francisco. After work one day we drivers had an informal poll (which included showing off the pieces). The number was over 50%.

otteray
01-21-2010, 3:15 PM
Isn't carrying without a permit a misdemeanor?
My wife, now retired from the Superior Court system in Santa Cruz County, told me that she cannot recall offhand (in her 25 years working as a supervising court clerk) in Santa Cruz County, a case where a person had a concealed loaded handgun without a permit and did not have to serve at least some jail time.

I know little about laws ; but I read it as this:

MISDEMEANOR: a crime punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for up to one year.

Okay, time for someone with hard facts about punishment to show up here, please.

xounlistedxox
01-21-2010, 4:48 PM
My brother CCW'd in my mom's car while arguing with his GF her parents called the police. They found the gun he went to jail for a couple days and got 3 years probation. The parents claimed he was threatning them etc

Sig556swat
01-21-2010, 5:11 PM
25 years ago I was hauling containers around the ports of Oakland and San Francisco. After work one day we drivers had an informal poll (which included showing off the pieces). The number was over 50%.

I had similar situation and I was suprised how many people were willing to show off there toys.

xonetruthcrewx
01-21-2010, 5:26 PM
I love living in Kern County. :p

Swatguy10_15
01-21-2010, 9:52 PM
Wow..That stat link isnt a scare tactic or anything by cal doj??haha
ok the pertinents..Carrying CCW unlicensed is a misdemeanor.
Proof:
California Penal Code Section 12025



(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(b) Carrying a concealed firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:

(7) In all cases other than those specified in paragraphs (1) to
(6), inclusive, by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one
year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by
both that imprisonment and fine.


Now I did leave out the 7 different sub-sections,paragraphs and enhancements. The punishment as stated above basically means, you can legally own a weapon, youre not a felon, the weapons not stolen and there arent any other bad circumstances...As long as youre within these parameters
its simply a misdemeanor.
Now as far as losing all your gun rights, going to prison..yadda yadda.. I dont recall ever seeing a misdemeanor doing anything like that. Dependant upon where you live/get caught with said weapon i would imagine would somewhat dictate how it went.
I would also agree that there alot of folks out there carrying unlicensed. SO? If the bangers and scum of good ole california carry on an everyday basis then why shouldnt john q. public be able to defned himself? But now were getting into 2A stuff.Wrong forum :)

Gryff
01-21-2010, 10:19 PM
What I find interesting is the number of cops that I've talked to in recent years that said they'd carry illegally if they weren't LEOs.

seagaro
01-22-2010, 3:02 PM
What I find interesting is the number of cops that I've talked to in recent years that said they'd carry illegally if they weren't LEOs.

That's because they know the dangers of not carrying.

tac
01-22-2010, 3:09 PM
Carrying concealed without a license is a terrible idea.

I doubt you will be able to find any useful stats. Most likely what you will find is people using guns in a crime which wont give you any info with respect to law abiding citizens choosing to carry for self protection.

SPUTTER
01-24-2010, 8:30 PM
CCW sounds like a bad idea? You wouldnt say that if you were in a situation where you needed to defend your life...then it would be a great idea. It all depends on the situation you are in.

Doheny
01-24-2010, 8:34 PM
Considering we're slowly getting closer to legal CCW, it's a bad idea. Get popped now for CCW without a permit and you'll likely never get one in this state or any other state (and if you have a non-resident CCW, expect that to be revoked.)

Foriegn power
01-24-2010, 9:52 PM
Hhhhh

professorhard
01-28-2010, 1:02 PM
I was looking more for some kind of estimate/statistics of people who do it. Not really interested in the legal implications of doing so. Thanks for the info provided guys.

ojisan
01-28-2010, 1:15 PM
What I find interesting is the number of cops that I've talked to in recent years that said they'd carry illegally if they weren't LEOs.

I've had a couple LEOs tell me I am dumb for not carrying.
I just can't count on these guys being the LEO to pull me over.

Who carries?
I would say it varies on the situation.
After the Rodney King riots, I know several DWP workers who had to go down into Los Angeles to repair power lines.
They told me that they, and almost all of their co-workers, were carrying concealed, permits or not.

B yond
01-29-2010, 9:06 AM
The probability of getting caught is pretty low depending on your life style and how much attention you bring by your profile of your appearance and the vehicle you drive.

I've been CCWing (legally) in CA for 3 years and no one has ever noticed. That said, I advise against carrying illegally, as there are all kinds of additional charges that can be tacked on should you get caught to make it a felony.

Foriegn power
01-29-2010, 11:02 AM
Hhh

johnthomas
01-29-2010, 11:08 AM
Other than gang bangers, thieves and your run of the mill rascals, I would guesstimate that 99.9% of the remaining law- abiding Californian population do not want to spend time in jail, pay fines and lawyer fees, lose their jobs, lose the right to own firearms, maybe wreck their marriage, lose their home, etc.
That's my unofficial, unsupported, seat-of-the-pants estimate.

Good post. The reasons you posted are what keeps me from ccw/wo/license.

M. D. Van Norman
01-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Iíve met at least two guys who have done it, not counting stories about the old days from my dad.

racky
01-29-2010, 3:34 PM
i'd love to comment without self-incriminating myself. lol j/k :p. seriously i don't :D

Foriegn power
01-29-2010, 4:43 PM
Hhhhhh

otteray
01-30-2010, 6:26 AM
How about someone does an ominous poll, questioning whether someone you know who does/has ccw w/o license.

I think you mean "anonymous."
Advertising or encouraging illegal carry could have ominous results.

B yond
01-30-2010, 8:21 AM
I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that you're better off getting caught with a loaded firearm concealed on your person than a fixed blade knife.

IIRC, a loaded firearm is a misdemeanor (provided you're not using it in a crime and it's registered to you) & a fixed blade knife is a felony.

Always thought that was strange.

pitchbaby
02-01-2010, 11:26 PM
I think most people don't carry concealed without a permit. Some do, of course. I once had a client in East Palo Alto when it was designated the murder capital of the US. He always carried a handgun under his seat. when stopped by CHP for speeding he told them where he lived & why he had the gun.

They let him go.

I have known of several LEO's in my county who are a bit lax on carry without a permit in this manner, but there are also several who will take you to the cleaners... there's just no way to know.

hatidua
02-07-2010, 6:16 PM
Most folks don't like to admit to things that incriminate themselves...

otteray
02-07-2010, 8:12 PM
Most folks don't like to admit to things that incriminate themselves...

Really? Most folks?
So, most folks, in your opinion, are scofflaws?

Then, I guess that I am just a rare, gullible, honest citizen.

While I strongly disagree with many of our laws, I still abide by them.

At the same time, I support the fight against those crazy anti-gun laws; although I choose to fight through legal channels, like the Calguns Foundation, NRA and CRPA, but not by breaking the law.

Bizcuits
02-07-2010, 9:30 PM
Many people underestimate the number, through work I've encountered dozens of people carrying illegally. None had priors.

ilikeguns
02-07-2010, 11:57 PM
If I may, I must encourage the young guys on here like myself not to carry w/o license. If your like me, you can't help but look like trouble in the first place. Being caught with a loaded gun as a young guy and then arguing for 2A rights might make the other respectable guys here look bad (speaking for myself at least as I am constantly questioned by police when I simply walk down my street. Must be the way I look..?) Lets leave things like this to the well-dressed and well mannered folks who can better defend our rights until CCW is better accepted here in CA. Just my opinion

SgtDinosaur
02-08-2010, 12:18 PM
I suspect it depends a lot on where you live/work. Judging from some of the comments in our local paper's website some people are carrying without a permit in Vallejo because they don't want to be victims. I personally have never needed a handgun while out and about. I would if I had the right, though.

fleegman
02-08-2010, 8:40 PM
My attitude about Californias carry laws are this: they break the essential contract between the Government and the Governed, by being capricious and a catch-22.

THE GOVERNMENT: "You can't carry a concealed pistol without one of our permits"
THE GOVERNED: "No sweat.... can I have one of your permits?"
THE GOVERNMENT: "Absolutely not!"

To hell with that.

AbinSur
02-09-2010, 6:22 AM
In the last 3 months I've met no less than 4 people who were carrying w/o a ccp. All were eager to show me, too. Not one of them could remember the last time they were pulled over for anything, much less had their vehicle/person searched. I tried to talk one into a CCW permit, but he laughed at me with, "...son, I carried this old revolver with me since before you were born and never had an ounce of trouble from the law". So I think a LOT more people carry w/o a permit than we are aware of. Having said that, the wife and I have permits, and we PUSH every person we know in Fresno/Madera counties to apply. Everyone we've encouraged was successful or is pending.

skscj
02-09-2010, 7:11 PM
Hmmm. Dead or alive.

ivsamhell
02-09-2010, 7:21 PM
rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

SgtDinosaur
02-09-2010, 7:41 PM
Hmmm. Dead or alive.

Well, when you put it that way, it does seem kind of clear cut don't it.;)

JAC
02-11-2010, 6:52 AM
I live in a not so nice area in LA County. I, on many occasions, feel the need to CCW but don't because I don't want any legal trouble. In my area just being latino is enough to get harassed by thugs that think im an easy target. I've been a victim of 3 crimes involing firearms one being home invasion. I really want to legally carry but feel if I apply, it would get rejected. The bad guys have guns no matter the consequences. It's frustrating!!! Any one out there with a similar situation? Were you able to obtain a CCW Permit? Any info would be helpful.

kenjimatic
02-11-2010, 9:52 AM
I work at my uncles business and we have a few LEO's who come in from time to time. I asked one of them about protection(for the business) and he tells me that he highly reccomends to have at least a revolver in the business because its easier to use even for someone who never shot before. He then showed me his glock(holstered @ 6 o'clock) and says "I highly reccomend you to carry also because there are too many crazy people out there". I notice there are people who says LEO friends recommends to carry but is there any way to make it easier for us law abiding citizens to obtain one since most LEO recommends it to friends. I remember a few months ago on the news there was a clip of McGinness who said something like "We are trying to minimize the carry. If there are people who wants a CCW because they're business carries alot of money we recommend them to get a courier service"

hnoppenberger
02-11-2010, 10:57 AM
its a misdemeanor. big deal, who doesnt have a few of those. :rolleyes:

EM2
02-11-2010, 7:58 PM
I work at my uncles business and we have a few LEO's who come in from time to time. I asked one of them about protection(for the business) and he tells me that he highly reccomends to have at least a revolver in the business because its easier to use even for someone who never shot before. He then showed me his glock(holstered @ 6 o'clock) and says "I highly reccomend you to carry also because there are too many crazy people out there". I notice there are people who says LEO friends recommends to carry but is there any way to make it easier for us law abiding citizens to obtain one since most LEO recommends it to friends. I remember a few months ago on the news there was a clip of McGinness who said something like "We are trying to minimize the carry. If there are people who wants a CCW because they're business carries alot of money we recommend them to get a courier service"

There is an easier way to get a CCW permit, get involved and elect a pro CCW sheriff in your county. We did here in Fresno a few years ago and our sheriff now issues so many permits that she carries applications in her own car to hand out to those interested.:D

Bronco4me
02-12-2010, 8:02 AM
rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

I've felt that way for years. Unfortunately, we live in a state where victims rights are a lessor priority than that of the criminal (liberal judges and a misguided ACLU makes sure of that). Criminals far outnumber our city, county and State LEOs combined so they cannot absolutely guarantee our safety. Because of that, I choose to protect myself and family in a manner that puts me on par or gives me an advantage over the loser(s) thats been in and out of the big house more times than I've been to a grocery store.

If that means that the "system" makes this otherwise law abiding, tax paying, civic minded citizen a criminal; fine. I embrace the dark side...albeit to a lessor degree.;) I'll take comfort in knowing that my family will survive an incident, and that is more important to me that ANYTHING else in this life.

hnoppenberger
02-12-2010, 8:56 AM
I've felt that way for years. Unfortunately, we live in a state where victims rights are a lessor priority than that of the criminal (liberal judges and a misguided ACLU makes sure of that). Criminals far outnumber our city, county and State LEOs combined so they cannot absolutely guarantee our safety. Because of that, I choose to protect myself and family in a manner that puts me on par or gives me an advantage over the loser(s) thats been in and out of the big house more times than I've been to a grocery store.

If that means that the "system" makes this otherwise law abiding, tax paying, civic minded citizen a criminal; fine. I embrace the dark side...albeit to a lessor degree.;) I'll take comfort in knowing that my family will survive an incident, and that is more important to me that ANYTHING else in this life.

I cant believe you would consider something like that this forum is about 100% big brother conformity.

CSACANNONEER
02-12-2010, 9:07 AM
I do it all the time! Of course, I only carry concealed without a permit where it is legal for me to do so. I'm talking about on the property I live on. My GTGs have ITWB holsters because I prefer my carry gun to be tucked close to my body instead of protruding away from me. It just keeps it from getting in the way while I'm working. Also, why the hell would I want to show my ace in the hole to a tresspasser before I need to?

bakokid
02-12-2010, 9:12 AM
funny thing is a vegitarian liberal female friend i know CCWs w/o a permit....go figure

hnoppenberger
02-12-2010, 10:46 AM
also while hunting. fully legal.

whobob
02-12-2010, 2:03 PM
It comes down to spirit vs letter of the law. Nothing wrong with CCW if you have no intention in participating in a crime.

five.five-six
02-12-2010, 2:27 PM
The Second Amendment is My Concealed Weapons Permit

8-Ball
02-12-2010, 2:59 PM
its a misdemeanor. big deal, who doesnt have a few of those. :rolleyes:

I believe that misdemeanor comes with a 5-7 year probation. If caught concealing again during the probation, it becomes a felony... then you have a life long prohibition against owning a firearm...

hnoppenberger
02-15-2010, 9:48 AM
sounds like you believed wrong.

dangerouspower
02-15-2010, 9:53 PM
Had a CCW for 6 years in Orange County until the new sheriff was elected. Was surprised upon my renewal that my permit would be 'limited' to and from work. Problem is, the need for me to have a concealed firearm exists outside of just going to and from work- and despite repeated pleas, I was denied.

Carrying concealed without a permit is a very personal decision. My advice is simple- only YOU know if the risks of carrying outweigh the real need of a concealed firearm in the event of a life or death situation. At that given moment, I will say that 99.9% of folks will be willing to take the misdemeanor, and increase the odds of surviving a violent encounter.

I know that there's talk about electing a new Sheriff soon- and I know for a fact that I'll be rallying behind someone that truly gives sh*t about my personal safety as a law abiding citizen, that truly appreciates his rights to bear arms- WITH the support of the law.

ZirconJohn
02-15-2010, 10:12 PM
I love living in Kern County. :p

I hear-ya bro... Mendocino myself.

I DO NOT know what it's like walking out my fromt door without my carry.

SMOKINLIZARD
02-17-2010, 6:25 AM
Found these statistics:
http://ag.ca.gov/cjsc/publications/misc/cfc03/12025.pdf


Thanx

land locked
02-17-2010, 8:50 PM
i have read some people saying its only a misdemeanor, thats if the officer charges you with that. be aware you could be charged with a felony.better hope the DA takes pity on you .

SWEETDUDE
02-17-2010, 9:23 PM
Had a CCW for 6 years in Orange County until the new sheriff was elected. Was surprised upon my renewal that my permit would be 'limited' to and from work. Problem is, the need for me to have a concealed firearm exists outside of just going to and from work- and despite repeated pleas, I was denied.

Carrying concealed without a permit is a very personal decision. My advice is simple- only YOU know if the risks of carrying outweigh the real need of a concealed firearm in the event of a life or death situation. At that given moment, I will say that 99.9% of folks will be willing to take the misdemeanor, and increase the odds of surviving a violent encounter.

I know that there's talk about electing a new Sheriff soon- and I know for a fact that I'll be rallying behind someone that truly gives sh*t about my personal safety as a law abiding citizen, that truly appreciates his rights to bear arms- WITH the support of the law.

Well said brother.

welchy
02-17-2010, 9:51 PM
funny thing is a vegitarian liberal female friend i know CCWs w/o a permit....go figure

Liberalism is a mental disorder.;)

PutTogether
02-18-2010, 2:15 AM
I am surprised at how many hear unabashadly scoff at the idea of carrying a gun w/o a permit. We all agree guns are a good idea to have. We all agree that someone trained and responsible should be able to carry a gun. We all know that if you carry gun every day for the rest of your life, the chances are FAR on the side of never having to use it. But god forbid that one time you need to use it - putting that gun on your hip that morning will seem like the smartest thing you ever did in your life. Since putting the gun on that MORNING made sense, I think we all agree it is good to be in the habit of carrying everywhere all the time. The idea being that if you don't make the habit, you may leave the gun at home. The gun at home isn't going to save you from being raped at a 7-11.

We talk about guns and self defense as being inalienable, god-given rights, but then act shocked, awed, or miffed, that a normal person might carry a gun without a permit?

If you are not a scumbag, and not using it to go threaten someone or make yourself feel tough, carry all the concealed guns you want to as far as I'm concerned. The more people (good people) on the street with guns - the safer I and my family are. Simple as that.


And no, I don't carry concealed without a permit - my wife would kill me. (its my wife I'm scared of, not the misdemeanor)

Desert Dude
02-18-2010, 10:54 AM
I am surprised at how many hear unabashadly scoff at the idea of carrying a gun w/o a permit. We all agree guns are a good idea to have. We all agree that someone trained and responsible should be able to carry a gun. We all know that if you carry gun every day for the rest of your life, the chances are FAR on the side of never having to use it. But god forbid that one time you need to use it - putting that gun on your hip that morning will seem like the smartest thing you ever did in your life. Since putting the gun on that MORNING made sense, I think we all agree it is good to be in the habit of carrying everywhere all the time. The idea being that if you don't make the habit, you may leave the gun at home. The gun at home isn't going to save you from being raped at a 7-11.

We talk about guns and self defense as being inalienable, god-given rights, but then act shocked, awed, or miffed, that a normal person might carry a gun without a permit?

If you are not a scumbag, and not using it to go threaten someone or make yourself feel tough, carry all the concealed guns you want to as far as I'm concerned. The more people (good people) on the street with guns - the safer I and my family are. Simple as that.


And no, I don't carry concealed without a permit - my wife would kill me. (its my wife I'm scared of, not the misdemeanor)

This about the best post I have read on this entire website.

Thanks.

warbird
02-18-2010, 11:39 AM
now that Saturday night specials are basically gone from the market I suspect there are far fewer people doing so. They were so small someone could carry one in their back pocket and no one would notice but they had seven or eight rounds of 25 caliber ammo to shoot on short notice at close range. The guns of today are bulky and can not be hidden as easily.

Foriegn power
02-18-2010, 10:38 PM
still got the 12 oz 5 - shot smiths.

evidens83
02-19-2010, 5:32 PM
It seems theres plenty of people here carrying concealed w/out a permit. So if something ever goes down and they end up using it and ending someone's life, what kind of repurcussions are we looking at? I dont carry because I dont have a permit. If I could I would though.

SigSoldier
02-19-2010, 6:32 PM
I agree with PutTogether and like him it's the wrath of my wife that I fear not the law. Plus with my luck the first time I left the house carrying I would be pulled over searched and arrested. I have a habit of being pulled over for no reason because my looks do not match the kind of guy I am and since I am very well versed in my rights I usually annoy bad cops. The ones that usually pull me over are the ones that don't give a s*** about my rights.

I also agree that the 2nd amendment is my concealed carry permit. How is it that we need a permit (i.e. permission) to do something that we have an unalienable right (i.e. incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another) to do? By acquiring a permit you are acknowledging that you need permission from the state to do something. That in essence enters you into a contract with the state and turns your right into a privilege. Fundamentally a ccp is unconstitutional and thus illegal to enforce, but good luck explaining that to a cop, judge or jury. Along those lines is the marriage license? We need permission to get married?

If we do not stand up for our rights they will eventually license or issue permits for every activity that we wish to engage in. CC is constitutionally legal and the constitution is the ultimate law of the land. Last time I checked it had not been amended in regards to the 2nd amendment. The ccp is illegal not the other way around. We must fight tyranny or obey tyranny the choice is ours.

PutTogether
02-22-2010, 11:23 AM
It seems theres plenty of people here carrying concealed w/out a permit. So if something ever goes down and they end up using it and ending someone's life, what kind of repurcussions are we looking at? I dont carry because I dont have a permit. If I could I would though.

I don't think it seems like people here carrying concealed without a permit. It seems quite the opposite. I am CERTAIN that would not be a calguns advocated practice.

You do bring up a good question. What if you were carrying without a permit and "something went down" and you ended up needing to use your gun? You'd obviously be in some fairly serious legal trouble, but couldn't one make the argument that you wouldn't have used the gun if you weren't going to die....so whatever legal issues you have are secondary to the fact that you are still breathing?

evidens83
02-24-2010, 1:23 PM
Common sense arguments and gun control issues never make sense. I highly doubt the DA will see through all the FUD.

Moto4Fun
03-02-2010, 3:40 PM
I have a couple things to add.

If you defend your live using, what is the term, "justifiable homicide"; I would take the jail time over the dead time any day. It would be up to the attorneys, jury, judge, etc to determine your outcome and how much carrying without a permit adds to the mess. Of course if you get involved with something that is not justifiable, your are in a mess of trouble.

I think the penalty for carrying without a permit should be a handgun training course and aquiring permint. Similar to being cited for driving without a license or operating an unlicensed vehicle, you should be forced by court order to acquire the correct permit. IT SHOULD BE THAT EASY. Sure, keep track of us, and collect our fees, but ISSUE THE PERMITS!

Foriegn power
03-05-2010, 4:35 PM
^ that does sound good! Issue the permit! Similar to driving without a license, i like that!

SigSoldier
03-14-2010, 11:46 PM
If you get married without a license is that an illegal marriage? If you drive a car without a license are you a dangerous driver? If you build an additional room onto your house without a permit is that room unfit to live in? If you fish off the pier without a license are you victimizing anyone? If your neighborhood throws a 4th of July block party without a permit should your rights to assemble be revoked? If you don't license your dog should your dog be taken from you? If you realize that we live in a dangerous world where bad people do bad things to good people and you feel safer carrying a gun have you committed a crime?

As a society I think we need to stop criminalizing non-crimes. A non-crime is one where there is no victim. I'm not suggesting that anyone do anything illegal I'm simply asking some questions.

Where is the line? If we are told that we need a permit to have children will we line up? How about a permit to leave our houses? or state an opinion? We are enslaving ourselves with legislation.

Ironmany2k
03-15-2010, 11:24 AM
What if you and your wife/gf/so were out and were approached by thugs with knives? If you pulled out your gun you have a greater chance of them just leaveing then you do of having to shoot.

The CCW would probably prevent a robery, rape or murder all without shooting a weapon. Then I guess you either don't report it or just make an anomymous report. Either way the crime was averted.

You do bring up a good question. What if you were carrying without a permit and "something went down" and you ended up needing to use your gun? You'd obviously be in some fairly serious legal trouble, but couldn't one make the argument that you wouldn't have used the gun if you weren't going to die....so whatever legal issues you have are secondary to the fact that you are still breathing?

neuron
03-15-2010, 3:58 PM
i have read some people saying its only a misdemeanor, thats if the officer charges you with that. be aware you could be charged with a felony.better hope the DA takes pity on you .

Furthermore the CPC gun laws describe two aspects of gun carry: 1) concealed vs unconcealed (open) carry; and 2) loaded vs unloaded carry. These are separate laws. If you carry WOP (without permit) and your gun is loaded and concealed, you can be charged with two violations, and as LL said the DA could charge a felony. There are legal was to carry WOP, and these are described in Mactinger's book, How to Own a Gun in California and Stay Out of Jail. Highly recommended.:)

Foriegn power
03-15-2010, 11:38 PM
Hhhh

nitrofc
03-16-2010, 7:11 AM
funny thing is a vegitarian liberal female friend i know CCWs w/o a permit....go figure

Of course she does......and I'll bet a lot of others like her do as well.
Yell and scream about one thing.....then turn right around and do another.

I'm not surprised.

xrMike
03-16-2010, 11:17 AM
i have read some people saying its only a misdemeanor, thats if the officer charges you with that. be aware you could be charged with a felony.better hope the DA takes pity on you .My understanding: As long as the gun is registered to you, and you are not a known gang member, and you are not using the gun in the commission of a crime, then you should only be charged with a misdemeanor.

I imagine you'll probably end up losing the gun too.

Foriegn power
03-16-2010, 5:34 PM
Hhhh

ojisan
03-16-2010, 5:59 PM
http://store.vintagepaperads.com/catalog/BA0294.jpg

Foriegn power
03-17-2010, 12:11 AM
Hhu

randy
03-17-2010, 1:30 AM
I don't know about California but everybody in AK & VT do. Oh wait they don't use permits. They must have read the shall not be infringed part.

JoeNoBody
05-16-2010, 6:32 AM
I don't think it seems like people here carrying concealed without a permit. It seems quite the opposite. I am CERTAIN that would not be a calguns advocated practice.

You do bring up a good question. What if you were carrying without a permit and "something went down" and you ended up needing to use your gun? You'd obviously be in some fairly serious legal trouble, but couldn't one make the argument that you wouldn't have used the gun if you weren't going to die....so whatever legal issues you have are secondary to the fact that you are still breathing?

What if "something went down"...

3 weeks ago, about 100 yards from my front door, a 26-year old Latino guy on a bike was stopped by a 19-year old and is 2 homeboys. The 19-year old asked the guy on the bike what gang did he belong too? The guy said he did not belong to any gang. The 19 year old then pulled out his handgun and shot the guy 3 times in the head. This happened in the alley of the apartment complex next to my neighborhood. It was mid-day. There were children outside.

A few things to consider

1) My neighborhood is slowing devolving into a really bad place to live. I own my home and in this current economy, selling it and moving just won't happen.

2) The apartment complex is already a slum and should be destroyed. There is a common wall between the properties.

3) The shooter was:

a) 19
b) An anchor baby of illegal aliens who should have been deported long ago
c) I'll guess a wanna-be gang member. Joining a street gang requires you to "prove yourself" by commiting a serious felony, such as, murder, car theft, rape, battery, arson.
d) This kid had no respect for the law. He didn't say to himself "I can't wait to be 21, so I can legally own a hand gun.

I am an old white guy living in a neighborhood that will be a gang war zone in the next few years. More and more of the 15+ year old kids in my neighborhood are dressing and acting like gang members all the time.

So if I applied for a CCW with the current Sheriff and listed everything above and more on my application, it would still be rejected.

bombadillo
05-16-2010, 6:39 AM
I would say a lot of the older retired guys in their late 60's through their 70's carry regularly. First thing is how often are they going to get checked for something like that, and second they feel its their God given right to do as they probably served more than most of us could think. I have met a lot of that "type" but for the vast majority, I think that as stated already, most law abiding citizens probably do not see the gain compared to the risk.

Midian
05-16-2010, 6:51 AM
Paranoia about having an unpleasant, expensive and public stroll through the Ventura County (or God help me, LA COUNTY) legal apparatus keeps my unlicensed CCW urge at bay. Plus, I have to admit, with my wife's mother a Superior Court Judge here, it'd embarrass the hell out of her, and there'd be domestic backlash I don't bloody need.

If Sheriff Dean is the next reality here in Ventura County, I'll finally apply. I put it on hold once the Sheriff position was challenged. I figured they'd be busy trying to save their own hides than issuing permits.

As for the vintage gun advert, peep this. We use this site at work all the time as reference for the retro signs and neon for the New Cap City environment in Caprica.


http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/guns-ads

JoeNoBody
05-16-2010, 6:56 AM
I just did a search and found out the 19-year old shooter is still on the lose. I thought this POS was arrested at the scene.

Additionally another young latino man was murdered in my area. He was an aspiring magician and performed magic shows in the area. He was murdered for his wallet and may I say because he was a local kid that choose to ignore the gang lifestyle and make it with his magic. It's much better to murder someone well known in the neighborhood.

g19lover
05-17-2010, 12:50 AM
The thought of carrying w/o a permit has crossed my mind a few times, have I done it? NO, only on my own property. I live in San Bernardino and from what I hear its not that hard to get one here, I'm afraid of being rejected and that why I haven't applied.

Nick Justice
05-21-2010, 12:36 PM
http://store.vintagepaperads.com/catalog/BA0294.jpg

I spoke to a parking enforcement officer in my city. He said that about 98.5%of all the interstate truckers that illegally park in the city have guns in the cabs. All the cities knows this, but they aren't about to do anything about it.

It used to be CA law that you had to have a firearm with you when you were driving a car...to warn horse-drawn carriages of your approach.

Just-in
05-21-2010, 2:13 PM
The thought of carrying w/o a permit has crossed my mind a few times, have I done it? NO, only on my own property. I live in San Bernardino and from what I hear its not that hard to get one here, I'm afraid of being rejected and that why I haven't applied.

Visit the CCW forumn. If it's true you really should prepare and apply for a CCW.
I'd like to take the courses just for the knowledge and in hopes that one day CCW permits will become reasonably obtainable to us law abiding citizens.

Billy Jack
05-21-2010, 3:21 PM
The thought of carrying w/o a permit has crossed my mind a few times, have I done it? NO, only on my own property. I live in San Bernardino and from what I hear its not that hard to get one here, I'm afraid of being rejected and that why I haven't applied.

You reside in one of the most CCW friendly counties in the state. If you can walk and chew gum, are not in a prohibited category, you will be issued. They are not going to deliver it to you home. 'Man up' and apply and stop whining that you might be turned down. Like being at a HS dance and being afraid to ask that cheerleader to dance. I was that cheerleader and no one asked me to dance. Just kidding. A little Reservation humor.

Billy Jack


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

xrMike
05-23-2010, 10:26 AM
http://moinansari.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/redskins-cheerleader1.jpg

(homage to a Redskin cheerleader)

MAK422
05-23-2010, 10:46 AM
The thought of carrying w/o a permit has crossed my mind a few times, have I done it? NO, only on my own property. I live in San Bernardino and from what I hear its not that hard to get one here, I'm afraid of being rejected and that why I haven't applied.

I suggest you go to calccw.com this will give you your best chance at getting approved. Everyone on that forum is helpful and thanks to them I have my CCW.

CenterX
05-23-2010, 10:50 AM
Go to the classes and learn the methods and responsibilities.
Safety is a personal right that is being ignored and overshadowed by fear mongers!
Billy Jack knows what the score is - follow his advice.
I'd stay away from the Redskin cheerleader she could hurt an old guy just having fun and not even want to. Well maybe a retired cheerleader would be more comfortable and less apt to inflict harm. But if you are married, stay with what you got - it must be working.

SSP.Tactical
05-23-2010, 4:15 PM
Hmmmmm..

I am a former LEO....and been in the game a for a bit....

I would say there are quite a few of those who prefer to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.........at least in my 25 plus years of half-*** experience. :D

Probably a lot more than we know! And who is gonna stop the Gang Banger / Criminal that carries? Only thing you will see is the Coroner unless you are the Victim...then you will FADE TO BLACK...and not see a thing...

Sorry....didn't finish...

Get the SAFETY TRAINING COURSES and Train on your own regularly no matter what permits you have or don't have! Safety first!

And Billy Jack is correct - GO APPLY and then decide what to do next.....won't know until you go!

Big Jake
05-23-2010, 5:32 PM
Hmmmmm..

I am a former LEO....and been in the game a for a bit....

I would say there are quite a few of those who prefer to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.........at least in my 25 plus years of half-*** experience. :D

Probably a lot more than we know! And who is gonna stop the Gang Banger / Criminal that carries? Only thing you will see is the Coroner unless you are the Victim...then you will FADE TO BLACK...and not see a thing...

Sorry....didn't finish...

Get the SAFETY TRAINING COURSES and Train on your own regularly no matter what permits you have or don't have! Safety first!

And Billy Jack is correct - GO APPLY and then decide what to do next.....won't know until you go!

This for sure. Read between the lines as their is wisdom in this post!

pyromensch
06-07-2010, 6:33 PM
I've been CCWing (legally) in CA for 3 years and no one has ever noticed. That said, I advise against carrying illegally, as there are all kinds of additional charges that can be tacked on should you get caught to make it a felony.

should any sane minded district attorney, who has a boatload of cash, decide to prosecute, an honest citizen, who is trying to protect himself, when LE's are getting manpower cuts due to budget problems. most likely any case of this type won't even show up in a court, as long as you promise not to do it again, unless you get busted in a highly liberal jurisdiction, like SF.
i would also advise against it, but there are those times, where you have to weigh the differences in consequences.

pyromensch
06-07-2010, 6:34 PM
This for sure. Read between the lines as their is wisdom in this post!


you had me wondering what you did, with your location as folsom prison

Mofo-Kang
06-07-2010, 8:30 PM
My wife, now retired from the Superior Court system in Santa Cruz County, told me that she cannot recall offhand (in her 25 years working as a supervising court clerk) in Santa Cruz County, a case where a person had a concealed loaded handgun without a permit and did not have to serve at least some jail time.

Wouldn't almost all of the people coming into court with such a charge be up for other charges as well? That is, how likely are you to be arrested for carrying alone? I'd be surprised if the overwhelming majority of these cases weren't additional charges tacked on to someone who was caught committing another crime. Selling drugs and in possession of a handgun w/no permit, drunk and disorderly, etc. How many of these cases were, say, a police officer talking casually to someone, noticing he had a gun, asking to see the permit, and then busting him when he didn't have one?