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View Full Version : Would you feel safer if your local law enforcement personnel had this?


TonyNorCal
12-29-2005, 9:30 PM
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=PKMMG762&storeid=1&image=pkmmg.gif&CFID=5045390&CFTOKEN=57808351

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/RandomDestiny/pkmmg.gif

blacklisted
12-29-2005, 9:31 PM
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=PKMMG762&storeid=1&image=pkmmg.gif&CFID=5045390&CFTOKEN=57808351

To be honest, no. :D

bu-bye
12-29-2005, 9:36 PM
I've seen my local PD shoot......some where the worst shots I have ever seen.

NO WAY!!!

Stevil
12-29-2005, 10:02 PM
I know LEO's make a easy target to rip-on BUT should the SHTF and they are able to mobilize this sort of BOF in defense of the good and the innocent then more power to 'em. It's my Birthday today, don't expect such nice, positive posts in the future. :D

bassplayrr
12-29-2005, 10:27 PM
I know LEO's make a easy target to rip-on BUT should the SHTF and they are able to mobilize this sort of BOF in defense of the good and the innocent then more power to 'em. It's my Birthday today, don't expect such nice, positive posts in the future. :D


I totally agree. Happy B-day by the way. Did you bring goody bags for the rest of us? :)

Stevil
12-29-2005, 10:48 PM
Yes I seem to have acquired a bag of stripped AR lowers, some XM193 and a bottle of Deus for everyone... who would have thunk it! :D ;)

bu-bye
12-29-2005, 10:58 PM
Happy birthday:)

Pablo
12-29-2005, 11:37 PM
Well, after 9/11 I would not be that surprise if there're some PDs that actually have one of those...
However, I really would like to know if FN has sold any of these babies to any PD in the country...

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/mg_m3m.htm

FNH USA
HEAVY MACHINE GUNS

M3M
UNPARALLELED POWER. UNBELIEVABLE ACCURACY. UNMISTAKABLE ADVANTAGE. The pintle-mounted FN M3M is like nothing anyone has ever seen before. Adaptable for air, land or naval vehicles without the need for electric or hydraulic power, the M3M combines high recoil attenuation with isolated spade grips for more accurate firing, enhanced safety features and an open breech to help eliminate cook-off. In short, consider your mission requirements met. And Exceeded

CALIBER: .50 Cal (12.7mm x 99mm)
WEIGHT: 79.9 lbs
LENGTH: 65.9"
RATE OF FIRE: 950 - 1,100 rpm

This product is available to the following markets: LAW ENFORCEMENT / MILITARY

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/guns_1100px/fn_mg_m3m.jpg

82a1
12-29-2005, 11:49 PM
Wow!! Now THAT'S a gun. Lucky SOB's. :D

C.G.
12-30-2005, 4:59 AM
It certainly would make feel better if I had one of them (if I could afford it, that is).:D

Turbinator
12-30-2005, 7:17 AM
Well, the thing is, if *I* were a law enforcement guy, I'd want one just for my personal collection!

Turby

Matt-man
12-30-2005, 8:21 AM
Only if we had a problem with "hostilely advancing vehicles."

M1A Rifleman
12-30-2005, 9:26 AM
My view is that local City, County, and State law enforcement have no reason to posses automatics or 50 BMG's. NO WAY. Law enforcment is becoming too militaristic!:mad:

I understand that the LA County Sheriff has an arsenal of 50 BMG's, and I have now just recently observed the the Alameda County Sheriff has river patrol boats and x-Coast Guard craft fitted with twin-50 BMG's and 30-Cal SAW machine guns. What these goofs need this hardware for I will never understand!

Gunner1
12-30-2005, 11:18 AM
Why do we need them? I thought because the D.O.J. told us that there were a bunch of yahoo's running around with 10 round fixed magazine .223 self loading rifles. Makes me wanna pee.......:D
Honestly in the small town that I work out of we do not need anything like that, but if given the chance I sure would like to have one on the back of my Jeep.


Gunner

M1A Rifleman
12-30-2005, 11:25 AM
[QUOTE=Gunner1]Why do we need them? I thought because the D.O.J. told us that there were a bunch of yahoo's running around with 10 round fixed magazine .223 self loading rifles. Gunner[/QUOTE


This is not all that far from the truth. My father was telling me about an article in the Sacto Bee about 10-years+ ago regarding the Sacto Sheriff getting full-auto rifles. The story was biased and explaned for the need of the Sheriff to have this to balance the fire-power due to the prevelance of the AW's in the Sacto region in the hands of - god for bid, gun rights loving, anti-clinton, conservative types that should now think twice about rebelling.

scorpionusa
12-30-2005, 2:11 PM
I got a PKM kit from weaponeer.net for $1150. Do you know who's making 80% receiver for the semi PKM?

If you got a reg'd .50BMG, why can't you put a flash hider on it? I thought it should be ok if the gun is reg'd.

dwtt
12-30-2005, 4:45 PM
Law enforcement has no need for this type of weapon or the FN. They will try to use terrorism as a justification, but if New York's finest had several of these, they would not have been any good against the two jet airliners crashing into the world trade towers. Shooting a car or truck bomb with one of these will just set off the bomb and get a lot of innocent people killed. They're also useless against radiological and biological weapons. Anthrax can't be shot by a bullet.

ldivinag
12-30-2005, 7:14 PM
but what if the zombies attack????????








jk:D

MadMex
12-30-2005, 8:18 PM
but what if the zombies attack????????
Unleash the necrophiliacs. Thatíll keep the zombies occupied and happy.

DrjonesUSA
12-30-2005, 9:36 PM
What's worse is that I'll bet one of my recievers that there are departments in this country that have hardware like that.

Sick doesn't even begin to describe it....

DrjonesUSA
12-30-2005, 9:38 PM
Here's another good one:

http://www.bushmaster.com/le/weapons/bushmaster_m203_m4_40mm_grenade_.htm

http://www.bushmaster.com/le/LE-M16-M203-Blue.jpg

Because every single cop on the street needs a 40mm grenade launcher tucked underneath their fully automatic M16, right?

It's for your own safety.....really....

Stevil
12-30-2005, 10:00 PM
Why's everyone gettin' their panties in a bunch about LEO's having heavy firepower? Tin foil hats too tight fellas? :) I seem to remember the "what would they need that for " argument being used against us in regard of .50BMG... jealous? :D

I'm very interested, seriously where's the rational for the objection. Don't tell me you can't foresee a circumstance or need for them cos' I'm sure I can conjure up several, what's the real source to your objections... anyone?

DrjonesUSA
12-30-2005, 10:04 PM
Why's everyone gettin' their panties in a bunch about LEO's having heavy firepower? Tin foil hats too tight fellas? :) I seem to remember the "what would they need with that for " argument being used against us in regard of .50BMG... you're all just jealous. :D

Seriously where's the rational for the objection. Don't tell me you can't foresee a circumstance or need for them cos' I'm sure I can conjure up several, what's the real source to your objections... anyone?


1) They get to own stuff that I can't have. That is unconstitutional.

2) They already have used their toys on US Citizens and it will only get worse from here.

3) Give me one good reason why ANY LEO agency needs an automatic .50 BMG???

4) "Need" does not apply to citizens; we have the RIGHT to own whatever we want. The govt. does not.

Stevil
12-30-2005, 10:32 PM
Thank you.

1) Maybe in California, but with the correct stamps and paperwork you can own one of those elsewhere, can you not?

2) What instance was that, Waco? Or is there are LE non-Federal instance?

3) Zombies, Aliens (both illegal and extraterrestrial :D), Collapse of society, Invasion, Civil uprising, Warfare.

4) Agreed BUT I want my Government to have the ability to protect me... do we deny the Army these weapons too on your rational?

I'm not trying to start a pi$$ing match by the way I'm genuinely interested, open to opinion and insight... I oft wrestle with thoughts myself twix liberty/law enforcement.

Gunner1
12-30-2005, 10:35 PM
I work at a smaller agency that is known for its progun department head. I admit we have some really cool stuff to shoot. No fifties and the Class three stuff is for our special units. The rank and file officers were stuck with mini 14s until the about two years ago. Now we are lucky to have M4 style carbines, a mix of Colt and Bushmasters. Like em both, I have been a staunch progun supporter for my entire career (14 years since I took the oath) and agree that the state of kalifornia basically does view the CONSTITUTION Of THE UNITED STATES as a valid document. Sorry to say but thats my view on many levels.
Enough now so i will get off my soap box now, Just remember that most rank and file LEO's are very pro gun and in my opinion are not the enemy.
The politico's on the other hand are the enemy.......

Gunner

DrjonesUSA
12-30-2005, 11:36 PM
I work at a smaller agency that is known for its progun department head. I admit we have some really cool stuff to shoot. No fifties and the Class three stuff is for our special units. The rank and file officers were stuck with mini 14s until the about two years ago. Now we are lucky to have M4 style carbines, a mix of Colt and Bushmasters. Like em both, I have been a staunch progun supporter for my entire career (14 years since I took the oath) and agree that the state of kalifornia basically does view the CONSTITUTION Of THE UNITED STATES as a valid document. Sorry to say but thats my view on many levels.
Enough now so i will get off my soap box now, Just remember that most rank and file LEO's are very pro gun and in my opinion are not the enemy.
The politico's on the other hand are the enemy.......

Gunner

Sir; I want to thank you for your service.

I have lots of gratitude & respect for local LEO's...its the state and feds that I am HIGHLY suspicious of.

Glad to hear that your chief is pro-gun and that you think many "average" cops are too. :)

DrjonesUSA
12-30-2005, 11:42 PM
Thank you.

1) Maybe in California, but with the correct stamps and paperwork you can own one of those elsewhere, can you not?

2) What instance was that, Waco? Or is there are LE non-Federal instance?

3) Zombies, Aliens (both illegal and extraterrestrial :D), Collapse of society, Invasion, Civil uprising, Warfare.

4) Agreed BUT I want my Government to have the ability to protect me... do we deny the Army these weapons too on your rational?

I'm not trying to start a pi$$ing match by the way I'm genuinely interested, open to opinion and insight... I oft wrestle with thoughts myself twix liberty/law enforcement.


1) I said that they can own one and I cannot. The rest of the country doesn't matter, I'm the one who's rights are being abrogated. Further, no citizen in this country should have to fill out paperwork & pay special taxes to own a freakin' gun.

2) I'll look up a few & post them later, but yes, Waco & Ruby Ridge are high on the list. The Fed. Govt. (military excluded) DEFINITELY has ZERO business owning hardware like that. Hell, most of those agencies have no constitutional basis for their existance!!!!

3) If the cops would use an automatic .50 BMG on illegals crossing the border, I'll personally contribute money to help buy them one.

4) I want my govt. to be able to protect me too....to an extent....but they also have no right to own things that they deny me.

I'd have no problem with them owning .50 autos as long as I can own one. (or two. :D )

There is simply no valid reason whatsoever for ANY law enforcement agency to have a freakin' belt-fed weapon.

NONE.

Number 6
12-31-2005, 8:47 AM
I think the market for such weapons as a PKM or an M2 is not your typical Law Enforcement Department, but state and federal agencies that guard high risk structures such as nuclear facilities. In addition, departments such as Dade County in Florida I could see definitely having a need for full auto on their boats for drug interdiction and other nastiness. Also, don't forget civilian contractor entities can also purchase these weapons for use in Iraq or other high risk areas, thus there would be a market there as well.

Turbinator
12-31-2005, 10:30 AM
1) I said that they can own one and I cannot. The rest of the country doesn't matter, I'm the one who's rights are being abrogated. Further, no citizen in this country should have to fill out paperwork & pay special taxes to own a freakin' gun.


I think this is my biggest complaint. If I've shown myself to be a law abiding citizen without any chances of going nutzo, I should be allowed to own the same gear that our local LEO's have. I don't see why not. Every other state that allows Class 3 has it this way.

Turby

DrjonesUSA
12-31-2005, 12:40 PM
I think this is my biggest complaint. If I've shown myself to be a law abiding citizen without any chances of going nutzo, I should be allowed to own the same gear that our local LEO's have. I don't see why not. Every other state that allows Class 3 has it this way.

Turby


You've got the right idea, but you've got it backwards:

The government should have to prove that you are unfit to own weapons before denying you the right to buy and own them; you do not need to prove that you are fit to own them.

In this country we (used to) believe in "Innocent until proven guilty."

Gnote
12-31-2005, 1:01 PM
...
In this country we (used to) believe in "Innocent until proven guilty."


I don't think this would be a case of innocent until proven guilty. I consider this more like the DMV. You have to prove that you can handle a car understand the rules of the road, and follow them before you are issued a driver's license.

Mike Searson
12-31-2005, 9:08 PM
Actually, guys...to clarify....

All full auto machineguns manufactured or imported after 1986 have that disclaimer: For Military/Law Enforcement Only

The 1986 Machinegun Ban shut down the NFA registry on machineguns. So these are advertised for SOT's and other Class 3 Dealers as dealer samples to sell to law enforcement.


Don't expect your local PD's to be fielding these anytime soon.

In Free America we need to repeal the 86 ban to make Class 3's more affordable!

sned45
12-31-2005, 9:12 PM
no, but I would feel safer having one. :D

triaged
01-01-2006, 8:18 PM
I prefer the "Barrett" possition. I think the gun manufacturers need to band together and not sell anything to PD's that is not legal to the puplic.

I would not give PD's 11rd mags, AR's, M16's, etc. The problem is that someone else will.

kurac
01-01-2006, 10:54 PM
The PKM was the Warsaw pacts newest SAW before the wall fell, it replaced the PKS and RPK, all good SAW's

blacklisted
01-01-2006, 11:06 PM
I prefer the "Barrett" possition. I think the gun manufacturers need to band together and not sell anything to PD's that is not legal to the puplic.

I would not give PD's 11rd mags, AR's, M16's, etc. The problem is that someone else will.

The problem is that the criminals they are up against have these items without worrying that they are not legal. I don't think it would be responsible to not allow the police to have these. However, state government agencies are another story. :)

DrjonesUSA
01-04-2006, 9:33 PM
The problem is that the criminals they are up against have these items without worrying that they are not legal. I don't think it would be responsible to not allow the police to have these. However, state government agencies are another story. :)



Really?

Never heard a story about criminals with belt-fed automatic .50's.

Care to post a few examples?

DrjonesUSA
01-04-2006, 9:35 PM
I don't think this would be a case of innocent until proven guilty. I consider this more like the DMV. You have to prove that you can handle a car understand the rules of the road, and follow them before you are issued a driver's license.


Serious question:

So then you wouldn't have a problem with "free speech certifications" showing that a person is educated enough to handle the responsibilities of free speech, right?

PanzerAce
01-04-2006, 10:00 PM
I don't think this would be a case of innocent until proven guilty. I consider this more like the DMV. You have to prove that you can handle a car understand the rules of the road, and follow them before you are issued a driver's license.

You DONT have the RIGHT to drive. Guns, on the other, you DO have a right to own and shoot.

DrjonesUSA
01-05-2006, 11:46 AM
You DONT have the RIGHT to drive. Guns, on the other, you DO have a right to own and shoot.


With how many people today feel that way, its a wonder anyone still believes that guns are a right. :(

Driving IS a right.


Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


What the 9th Amendment means is that just because certain rights (such as the RKBA) are listed in the Bill Of Rights, that does NOT mean that those are the ONLY rights you have.

Example; the right to breathe is not listed in the BOR, but nobody would argue that you do not have a right to breathe.

The right to walk down the street at 11pm is not listed in the BOR, but that does not mean that you do not have that right.

The right to drive is not listed in the BOR, but that does not mean that you do not have that RIGHT.

The BOR exists to limit the powers/rights of THE GOVERNMENT, NOT THE PEOPLE.

m98
01-06-2006, 1:43 AM
I'd personally stay away from the pd. if an officer was behind one of those in a really bad shft situation. who know what if it maybe a dumbass happy finger guy/lady doing the gunning of that much firepower. I know nowadays there's quite a few cops out there that's exactly like that-like the ones that goes to draw their sidearms and shoots themselves in the foot. shotguns/ar's/teargas/armored vehicals are plenty enough for the pd's. they really aren't trained well enough for those type of weapons.

DrjonesUSA
01-06-2006, 11:28 AM
I'd personally stay away from the pd. if an officer was behind one of those in a really bad shft situation. who know what if it maybe a dumbass happy finger guy/lady doing the gunning of that much firepower. I know nowadays there's quite a few cops out there that's exactly like that-like the ones that goes to draw their sidearms and shoots themselves in the foot. shotguns/ar's/teargas/armored vehicals are plenty enough for the pd's. they really aren't trained well enough for those type of weapons.


I don't even think that cops need armored vehicles.

The militarization of the police really is frightening.

m98
01-08-2006, 12:41 AM
I don't even think that cops need armored vehicles.

The militarization of the police really is frightening.

that sends chills through my spine and goose bumps

atek3
01-08-2006, 4:00 PM
the ammo belt on that HMG is sweet.

DrjonesUSA
01-09-2006, 9:15 AM
that sends chills through my spine and goose bumps


What does?

The militarization of the police, or the fact that I am against it?

uglygun
01-10-2006, 6:45 AM
Bakersfield PD/SWAT has an MG42, confiscated from somebody during a traffic stop. Rather than destroy it they took possession of it to use for their purposes.

What they need one for though is beyond any guess I'd be able to come up with.

m98
01-11-2006, 2:05 AM
What does?

The militarization of the police, or the fact that I am against it?

the police becoming militarize against civilians. bad guys don't carry .50cal autos. mostly what they've got are pistols/shotguns/sks and 99.9% of them shoots like "skinnies".

Patrick Aherne
01-11-2006, 10:29 PM
First, I've been a cop for 13 years now and I know that criminals don't go down and register their weapons or pay their DROS fees or fill out their 4473's. Therefore, I know that all gun control law is about control, but not controlling criminals, just law-abiding citizens. I have no fear of the 98% of decent, hard-working Americans that I never come in contact with unless it's at a car crash or during a traffic enforcement stop. I have no problem with those folks owning firearms, including NFA weapons.

However, the idea that police don't need a belt-fed is just plain flat-earth thinking. I will grant that 99% of LE situations only need aimed semi auto fire, but there is a need to secure significant targets of terrorism against vehicle-borne suicide bombs. My bushmaster AR won't do crap to a Uhaul. The DRMO M14's we have will do better. A belt-fed 7.62 would do much better at stopping a wayward semi truck. And yes, I would give the officers assigned to such checkpoint duty the appropriate training.

That scenario and stopping boat borne suicide bombers are the only scenarios I could think of that justify this type of equipment. It's a very specialized use and most departments, like mine, don't need it. But I don't have to secure an international airport, either.

bodyarmorguy27
01-23-2006, 1:17 PM
I seen a certain large metro agency with 50 cal Barretts posted to take out vehicles that would run a checkpoint at a major Hollyweird event.

So there is a need for certain large caliber weapons to deal with terrorist threats in metropolitan areas.

shopkeep
01-23-2006, 2:03 PM
A semi-automatic version of either of them in anything except .50 BMG would be legal under current regulations. Just make sure your links are from 1999 if you intend to link more than 10 shots.

Jicko
01-23-2006, 2:08 PM
I saw the mounting rail at the back... I think an EOTech will fit there perfectly!! ;)

Well, after 9/11 I would not be that surprise if there're some PDs that actually have one of those...
However, I really would like to know if FN has sold any of these babies to any PD in the country...

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/mg_m3m.htm

FNH USA
HEAVY MACHINE GUNS

M3M
UNPARALLELED POWER. UNBELIEVABLE ACCURACY. UNMISTAKABLE ADVANTAGE. The pintle-mounted FN M3M is like nothing anyone has ever seen before. Adaptable for air, land or naval vehicles without the need for electric or hydraulic power, the M3M combines high recoil attenuation with isolated spade grips for more accurate firing, enhanced safety features and an open breech to help eliminate cook-off. In short, consider your mission requirements met. And Exceeded

CALIBER: .50 Cal (12.7mm x 99mm)
WEIGHT: 79.9 lbs
LENGTH: 65.9"
RATE OF FIRE: 950 - 1,100 rpm

This product is available to the following markets: LAW ENFORCEMENT / MILITARY

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/guns_1100px/fn_mg_m3m.jpg