PDA

View Full Version : Reporting lost or stolen firearms


Swiss
01-19-2010, 11:31 AM
A new guy running for CoCo county supervisor thinks we should be required to report lost or stolen firearms. I've also run across this idea in other newspaper articles. The purported goal is to reduce the number of straw sales or other methods of guns falling into unlawful hands.

I doubt this scheme will work, beginning with the fact that straw sellers will never report their firearms as missing. But eventually one of their guns will surface in a street crime, and if they didn't report it then perhaps we've nabbed one of the bastards.

What are your thoughts on this?

frankym
01-19-2010, 2:44 PM
I don't see anything wrong with it. Why wouldn't you want to report a lost or stolen firearm anyway?

sbrady@Michel&Associates
01-19-2010, 3:24 PM
Our office has prepared a letter that we have sent to several cities considering such laws. The latest one was sent to the County of San Mateo. A version of the letter is available on www.calgunlaws.com at the following link:

http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/california-law/83-california-proposed-municipal-ordinances/818-county-of-san-mateo-board-of-supervisors-to-consider-gun-control-ordinances.html

Just scroll down and look for the bold link: "See NRA Duty to Report Letter" towards the bottom. I have made it a public document so anyone can see it without registering, but I encourage you to register so we can send you updates on gun-law activities coming out of our office as they occur.

kf6tac
01-19-2010, 3:45 PM
I don't see anything wrong with it. Why wouldn't you want to report a lost or stolen firearm anyway?

The issue isn't that you shouldn't want to report a lost or stolen firearm, but that most lost/stolen gun reporting schemes make you a criminal for failing to do so within a certain time frame. The proposed San Mateo ordinance, which was the subject of the above-referenced NRA Duty to Report Letter, set the time limit at 48 hours after the gun owner knew or should have known that the gun was missing. Like most objective standards, "should have known" would likely be interpreted as whether a hypothetical reasonable person (which, as anyone who's taken the bar exam will tell you, is almost always far more cautious than any actual person) would have known in that situation that the gun was missing. That, of course, doesn't really tell you anything about how long you have to report the gun.

And even if you know the gun is missing, sometimes #$% just happens. If the only thing that was taken was the gun, you might not have any trouble meeting the reporting deadline. But if the gun was taken as part of a break-in during which your front door was smashed off the hinges, your window was broken, your wife was injured, and your children were traumatized, you may have a whole lot of other things on your mind that prevent you from reporting the lost firearm in time. And by the time you get around to it, you're a criminal because the time limit expired while you, like an insane person, were busy juggling the police, the insurance company, the hospital, the in-laws, and the actual repairs to your house.

Swiss
01-19-2010, 4:23 PM
Calgunlaws seems to be down at the moment.

So what might an acceptable time frame or circumstances be? There are a lot of variables to account for.

Our office has prepared a letter that we have sent to several cities considering such laws. The latest one was sent to the County of San Mateo. A version of the letter is available on www.calgunlaws.com at the following link:

http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/california-law/83-california-proposed-municipal-ordinances/818-county-of-san-mateo-board-of-supervisors-to-consider-gun-control-ordinances.html

Just scroll down and look for the bold link: "See NRA Duty to Report Letter" towards the bottom. I have made it a public document so anyone can see it without registering, but I encourage you to register so we can send you updates on gun-law activities coming out of our office as they occur.

ErikTheRed
01-19-2010, 5:40 PM
Personally, I would report my guns if they were stolen. If stolen, I no longer want any responsibility for them should they be used in a crime. Also, I'd want insurance reimbursement.

But, lets just say the gun-grabber radicals eventually get their way and send the jack-boots out to collect. When they come a'knockin', millions of Americans will simply claim that their firearms have all been stolen and that they no longer have any. If the grabbers are successful in implementing laws that require you to report stolen firearms, then instead of confiscating your guns, they'll confiscate YOU for violating the law by not reporting them.

Swiss
01-19-2010, 6:22 PM
That's the extreme scenario - you could always say you recycled it. ;)

Seriously, say we agreed to a 5 year trial period of mandatory reporting that allowed for delays in notification when unusual circumstances for the loss exist. Combine that with stiff performance requirements and a solid sunset clause, ensuring that if this trial law does not bag straw sellers by the bushel then the trial legislation is promptly and forever terminated.

I don't like this law but if we can put a big dent in one of the main reasons unlawful firearms are so prevalent on our streets, perhaps it's at least worth a try? It shows we're proactive and it gives the antis one less thing to hammer us with.

This is all assuming that straw sales account for a major percentage of illegal guns on our streets. If that's not the case then forget it.


Personally, I would report my guns if they were stolen. If stolen, I no longer want any responsibility for them should they be used in a crime. Also, I'd want insurance reimbursement.

But, lets just say the gun-grabber radicals eventually get their way and send the jack-boots out to collect. When they come a'knockin', millions of Americans will simply claim that their firearms have all been stolen and that they no longer have any. If the grabbers are successful in implementing laws that require you to report stolen firearms, then instead of confiscating your guns, they'll confiscate YOU for violating the law by not reporting them.

NorcalGSG
01-19-2010, 6:39 PM
Swiss-
I appreciate your concern. Here's my opinion. This and $3.50 might buy you a coffee, so for what its worth-

1. Don't want ANY more gun laws. We already have enough restrictions on our rights already.
2. Any ground we loose will never be made back up (most likely, never say never and always, right??) Just like the "temporary" .25% sales tax hike our state got to rebuild from the San Fran earthquake, I think the city is fine now, but we still have and always will have that "temporary" tax. Government programs, even "temporary" ones, rarely if ever go away.
3. Reporting your lost guns won't reduce crime. If they are stolen, the bad guys already have the guns, and they won't be found until a LEO encounters said bad guy with said gun anyways. No additional "registration" of any sort will change this.
4. Another law will not prevent someone with bad intent from committing a crime which is already illegal anyways.

Just my thoughts, I'm sure others may vary.

dustoff31
01-19-2010, 6:54 PM
Seriously, say we agreed to a 5 year trial period of mandatory reporting that allowed for delays in notification when unusual circumstances for the loss exist. Combine that with stiff performance requirements and a solid sunset clause, ensuring that if this trial law does not bag straw sellers by the bushel then the trial legislation is promptly and forever terminated.

I don't like this law but if we can put a big dent in one of the main reasons unlawful firearms are so prevalent on our streets, perhaps it's at least worth a try? It shows we're proactive and it gives the antis one less thing to hammer us with.

This is all assuming that straw sales account for a major percentage of illegal guns on our streets. If that's not the case then forget it.

I believe people should report stolen guns. But they should do it because they want to act as a responsible citizen and gun owner, not because they are forced to by another useless law.

I simply can't see any connection to stolen guns and "strawman" sales. Much less any benefit from such a law. If a crook steals your gun, who is he going to sell it to? Another crook? Neither one will run the serial number through NCIC, or undergo a background check.

sbrady@Michel&Associates
01-19-2010, 7:36 PM
Calgunlaws seems to be down at the moment.

So what might an acceptable time frame or circumstances be? There are a lot of variables to account for.

Swiss, the site looks to be working but just really slow. I have a call in to the host to see what the problem is. Please let me know if you are not able to view the site at all. I will see what I can do. Sorry for the inconvenience. I think there was a lot of unexpected traffic about the Tudesko case.

sbrady@Michel&Associates
01-20-2010, 9:25 AM
OK, I believe www.calgunlaws.com is up and working now. I do not know why it was so slow last night and sometimes not loading. As mentioned in my previous post, there is a letter on there that explains issues with duty to report laws for those interested.