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View Full Version : BATF is asking about AFM brand lower receivers & owner info...


bwiese
01-18-2010, 1:53 PM
Seems some FFLs have been asked about AFM AR receiver sales and owner contact info by BATFE.

I have no idea why. The last AFM receiver I saw months ago looked no different than any other semiauto receiver. AFMs seem to have dried up a few months ago, and there were various rumors about company status running around.

Speculating... I don't think anything untoward will be happening to past AFM receiver buyers. This may well be an attempt resolve some sort of mfg/inventory or marking issue and tracking that down, and may even only apply to some small subset of production.

It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway:



DON'T PANIC. This probably amounts to nothing. I don't think this is a warrant/door-kicker situation.



If you have an AFM receiver, ensure your configuration is fully compliant with CA and Fed laws.



If you have an AFM receiver, ensure your other firearms and related products (ammo, accessories, etc.)
are compliant with CA and Fed laws.




It's sensible that the rest of your life (in legal aspects) is all in order, OK? We at CGF have seen
situations that got complex due to perfectly (but aggressively) legal items leading to problematic
other areas. Live bold, but live organized and live thoughtfully.

You do not have to consent to a search. If they have a warrant, they will anyway.

Do not lie about anything - "don't be Martha". Because of USC Sec 1001, generally it's best not to say anything except "see my attorney". Remember that even insisting on innocence can be used against you in some cases.

If it becomes clear there's only some minor issue with AFM receiver alone and there's a graceful way you can interact with BATF (office meeting like the C&R guys?) then perhaps cooperation can be accomplished. But that's a judgement call with risk anytime you interact with LE.

wildhawker
01-18-2010, 3:06 PM
This should probably be an announcement and/or email blast.

RudyN
01-18-2010, 3:31 PM
I just happen to have one of their lowers sitting in my closet waiting to be built up.:TFH:

bigcalidave
01-18-2010, 3:46 PM
Seems like a big warning with no details? Maybe they got a report of some critical flaw and want to warn customers? Like a recall?

MasterYong
01-18-2010, 4:00 PM
Seems like a big warning with no details? Maybe they got a report of some critical flaw and want to warn customers? Like a recall?

The BATFE is concerned with safety?

:gene:

Fjold
01-18-2010, 4:15 PM
I would keep it locked up seperately from any other guns that I own just to make sure that they don't have an excuse to grab any other guns for "examination".

G17GUY
01-18-2010, 4:34 PM
They used to have more info on the website. Now they have a note "we do not sell firearms".

Hm...

http://afmfirearms.com

freonr22
01-18-2010, 4:39 PM
ouch! their website hurts the eyes

usas12
01-18-2010, 4:40 PM
+1 Fjold... have it ( stripped reciever alone ) sitting in a locked handguncase by the door for them . if they show up pull it out . they will not need to go into your home , safe , etc ...

I know a friend that was " inspected / searched " by BATF because they thought it was a straw purchace due to the 1 great gun and the 2 p.o.s. guns he bought . he let them in , picked through all of his " good stuff . they thought the guns were cool & never said another word & showed them what they wanted to confirm . The condition of his getting the great gun was that he HAD to buy the p.o.s's too. they found it unusual that someone would buy such a gun & the 2 p.o.s's too . confirmed he owned the guns and left .

But if you have the stripped reciever by itself not in your safe / near your other guns , they will not see anything else you have .

It almost sounds like when I think it was L.A.R. that made the parts gun 50bmg & BATF had to track down the 500-1000 of potentially unregistered 50bmg recievers . Mfgs have to , might be wrong , register " as made for sale " recievers that are sold to the public . That was back in the early 90's . ABC , NBC & or CBS all ran stories on it . the guns were bought & built through mail order .

G17GUY
01-18-2010, 4:43 PM
http://www.armslist.com/posts/17881

KaTooM
01-18-2010, 4:50 PM
Did a google search....

AFM Firearms - All about firearms! (we do NOT sell firearms)

Maybe they are in trouble, lowers are the firearms. My guess would be they broke some rules, and unless there lowers accept full auto or select fire parts you are fine owning one.

If someone here has one compare it to a mainstream lower and see if it looks more milled out.

Cokebottle
01-18-2010, 4:52 PM
ouch! their website hurts the eyes
It's not their web site (anymore).
Disclaimer at the bottom... the domain is for sale. The text seems to be written simply to snag search engine hits... none of the links go anywhere.

freonr22
01-18-2010, 4:53 PM
Did a google search....

AFM Firearms - All about firearms! (we do NOT sell firearms)

Maybe they are in trouble, lowers are the firearms. My guess would be they broke some rules, and unless there lowers accept full auto or select fire parts you are fine owning one.


you mean if the sear hole was there? or just if the fcg is too open??

KaTooM
01-18-2010, 4:57 PM
you mean if the sear hole was there? or just if the fcg is too open??

Sear shelf area too open maybe...that would allow the sear hole to be drilled to make it MG status.

B Strong
01-18-2010, 4:58 PM
I have no direct knowledge of this particular instance, but in the past there have been two things, one AR semi auto receiver specific, that ATF was interested in concerning stripped recievers.

1. Engraving of serial numbers/manufacturers name and address. (general)

2. The sear shelf area has to be a cetain spec.(AR)

freonr22
01-18-2010, 4:58 PM
but is too open a fcg area illegal if no sear hole? oops i see b strongs post, I didnt know the shelf HAD to be a specific dimension

Seesm
01-18-2010, 5:30 PM
Huh if you have a too open trigger group area on your 80% I do NOT think that is illegal...

KaTooM
01-18-2010, 5:41 PM
Huh if you have a too open trigger group area on your 80% I do NOT think that is illegal...

I have limited info on what makes a lower MG status, I do know that if you were to drill the hole for the auto sear the rest of the parts would not fit(you would need to mill out the receiver to make room)

The reason I brought it up was maybe there lowers have room but no hole(pretty easy to drill)

:TFH:

Ford8N
01-18-2010, 5:51 PM
Maybe it's open enough for a DIAS.

:hide:

Any AR owner with a brain could tell....

freonr22
01-18-2010, 5:58 PM
But is that illegal?

KaTooM
01-18-2010, 6:01 PM
But is that illegal?


Yes, that is illegal by federal law. Too easy to modify.


Semi auto lowers are cast to not accept MG parts.

B Strong
01-18-2010, 6:07 PM
Maybe it's open enough for a DIAS.

:hide:

Any AR owner with a brain could tell....

That isn't the issue.

Fjold
01-18-2010, 6:15 PM
It could also be something wrong with their manufacturer's license, their record keeping, etc..

bwiese
01-18-2010, 6:16 PM
It could also be something wrong with their manufacturer's license, their record keeping, etc..

I do indeed suspect that the issue is along those lines.

KaTooM
01-18-2010, 6:17 PM
That isn't the issue.

Sorry about that...;)

I just brought it up as a possible.

CHS
01-18-2010, 7:04 PM
Maybe it's open enough for a DIAS.


There's nothing illegal about an AR lower having the ability to accept a DIAS.

bodger
01-18-2010, 7:12 PM
+1 Fjold... have it ( stripped reciever alone ) sitting in a locked handguncase by the door for them . if they show up pull it out . they will not need to go into your home , safe , etc ...

I know a friend that was " inspected / searched " by BATF because they thought it was a straw purchace due to the 1 great gun and the 2 p.o.s. guns he bought . he let them in , picked through all of his " good stuff . they thought the guns were cool & never said another word & showed them what they wanted to confirm . The condition of his getting the great gun was that he HAD to buy the p.o.s's too. they found it unusual that someone would buy such a gun & the 2 p.o.s's too . confirmed he owned the guns and left .

But if you have the stripped reciever by itself not in your safe / near your other guns , they will not see anything else you have .

It almost sounds like when I think it was L.A.R. that made the parts gun 50bmg & BATF had to track down the 500-1000 of potentially unregistered 50bmg recievers . Mfgs have to , might be wrong , register " as made for sale " recievers that are sold to the public . That was back in the early 90's . ABC , NBC & or CBS all ran stories on it . the guns were bought & built through mail order .


Well that disconcerting. If I were to get a great deal on an OLL, and the seller stipulated that I buy two POS guns along with it, the BATF can obtain a warrant from a judge and search through ALL of my guns to see what's up?

Just because I bought three guns and two of them weren't quality in the opinion of a federal agency?

G17GUY
01-18-2010, 7:43 PM
Well that disconcerting. If I were to get a great deal on an OLL, and the seller stipulated that I buy two POS guns along with it, the BATF can obtain a warrant from a judge and search through ALL of my guns to see what's up?

Just because I bought three guns and two of them weren't quality in the opinion of a federal agency?

Thats not what he wrote.

NayaL8R
01-18-2010, 8:21 PM
I don't know, but this makes me want to buy one at 100 bucks...that's going to be a cheap build with nice features :rolleyes:

technique
01-18-2010, 8:51 PM
That sucks. Those lowers weren't even that great looking...
My guess is AFM didn't keep their records in order. As a result, the BATF now has your personal info. They now know what you own.

Oddly though...why would they go to where they know receivers went to?

wash
01-18-2010, 9:52 PM
I really doubt that AFM's made it to Mexico.

I was going to buy two almost a year ago but after weeks of waiting for them to come in I cancled. I guess I dodged this mess but I guess it could happen for any small or even large manufacturer.

RudyN
01-18-2010, 9:54 PM
I happened to walk into a gun store and they were sitting in the display case and I bought one.

MasterYong
01-19-2010, 9:33 AM
Maybe it's open enough for a DIAS.

:hide:

Any AR owner with a brain could tell....

I have a brain, I own several ARs, and I wouldn't be able to tell. Honestly, I've never really shined a flashlight down into a lower to see what it looks like. I just assemble the rifle and blast away. I don't think I'd notice if the lower hod too much room for a FCG.

freonr22
01-19-2010, 9:59 AM
http://www.armslist.com/posts/17881''

I had sent this Calguns link, I did not know it was the owner I was sending it to. Here was his response:

Paul,

Thanks for the heads up. No idea what that is about. Could have something to do with our expansion. Our website and phone lines are down for the short term. We have had a few enquiries about that. We are currently refitting and upgrading the shop.

Other than that, no idea. the rumor mill at its best. I do appreciate the heads up though.

We are, and always have been, by the book. If we were in violation of any rule, law or procedure, the ATF would be all over it. As far as the ATF and AFM are aware, we are good. Any dealer that we have shipped to and has a copy of our license can go to FFL EZ Check and run our license and see it is current and in good standing.

So again...lol, no idea.

Mitchell fedoruk
Owner AFM - American Firearms Manufacturing Company

bodger
01-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Thats not what he wrote.



I know a friend that was " inspected / searched " by BATF because they thought it was a straw purchace due to the 1 great gun and the 2 p.o.s. guns he bought . he let them in , picked through all of his " good stuff . they thought the guns were cool & never said another word & showed them what they wanted to confirm . The condition of his getting the great gun was that he HAD to buy the p.o.s's too. they found it unusual that someone would buy such a gun & the 2 p.o.s's too . confirmed he owned the guns and left .

I'm confused by this then. I thought this meant the fact that he bought a great gun and two crap guns raised a flag with BATF and that was the basis for their
"search/inspection". Was his friend an FFL?

Steyr_223
01-26-2013, 8:03 AM
What was the end result here? There is AFM complete lower in the for sales section. Is it GTG or will cause problems for the buyer?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

cdtx2001
01-26-2013, 8:26 AM
+1 Fjold... have it ( stripped reciever alone ) sitting in a locked handguncase by the door for them . if they show up pull it out . they will not need to go into your home , safe , etc ...

I know a friend that was " inspected / searched " by BATF because they thought it was a straw purchace due to the 1 great gun and the 2 p.o.s. guns he bought . he let them in , picked through all of his " good stuff . they thought the guns were cool & never said another word & showed them what they wanted to confirm . The condition of his getting the great gun was that he HAD to buy the p.o.s's too. they found it unusual that someone would buy such a gun & the 2 p.o.s's too . confirmed he owned the guns and left .

But if you have the stripped reciever by itself not in your safe / near your other guns , they will not see anything else you have .

It almost sounds like when I think it was L.A.R. that made the parts gun 50bmg & BATF had to track down the 500-1000 of potentially unregistered 50bmg recievers . Mfgs have to , might be wrong , register " as made for sale " recievers that are sold to the public . That was back in the early 90's . ABC , NBC & or CBS all ran stories on it . the guns were bought & built through mail order .

I wouldn't even offer that much.

As Bill said, "speak with my attorney" is all I would offer.