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cwiz
01-18-2010, 12:20 PM
Hi all, new to the forums and I have a question

I've been working through the rentals at my local shop, looking a primary pistol, and pretty much love the p229 40 cal. It has a really great weight and balance in my hand. when the slide closes, if feels really solid. I also tried a Berretta 92 and thought it had a pretty similar feel and accuracy (in my hands, you may have different expierence) and liked the fact it had a safety. Granted teh safety is in a HORRIBLE location in the case of a speedy reload, but the feature got me thinking.

My range doesnt have any HK's for rent but i really like the safety feature on the USP compact so the pistol can be kept in condition 1 (bullet in chamber).

I am just not comfortable with a bullet in the chamber of a gun with no safety. Maybe if I had a holster that locks the gun in until the release button is hit but still not ideal.

Does anyone here keep thier 229 in condition 1? do u rely on the holster to prevent accidents? and dont give me that macho 'my finger is my safey' bs cuz accidents DO happen.

Any comments on how the HK USP Compact compares to the Sig P229 in feel, accuracy, etc? EDIT: I figured out the USP is alil longer and lighter (7.65" vs 7.1", 1.82lb vs 2lb) but as far as shooting experience, what should i expect?

MrClamperSir
01-18-2010, 12:25 PM
Since the "safety" on a Sig is the decocking a chambered round, it is considered condition 1 to carry with the hammer down. And yes this is the only way you should carry if you are relying on it to save your life.



ETA:The terminology, condition 1 is in reference to a 1911 type pistol. Since there is no safety on the SIG you can't actually carry in condition 1.

J-cat
01-18-2010, 12:26 PM
The 229 is more accurate due to a tighter barrel to slide lockup. Both guns have firing pin block safeties and are equally safe with their hammers cocked provided you keep your finger off the trigger. The HK can be cocked and locked, though. The 229 can't.

cwiz
01-18-2010, 12:38 PM
I definitely like the single action trigger pull over the double action, i'm a lot more accurate. but its seems less safe as teh trigger pull is lighter. I'm not concerned with me accidently pulling the trigger. Main concern is if the gun were to fall out of the holster if i were to trip or something. Also, without a safety, it doesnt seem smart to carry without a holster, say in a jacket pocket or left in a bedside drawer. Any comments there?

MrClamperSir
01-18-2010, 12:49 PM
The first shot may be a little high and right, after that it's pretty tight. I don't let that discourage all of the other great features that Sig Sauer offers.

Grakken
01-18-2010, 12:49 PM
HK and Sig? Ferrari and Lambo? Can't go wrong with either. Someone, somewhere near you has to offer a HK for rent. :)

Based off of your criteria, get the HK.

Watch out for the fanbois of both pistols.

J-cat
01-18-2010, 12:50 PM
With practice, the double action pull will not hinder combat accuracy all that much.

cwiz
01-18-2010, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE=Grakken;3660989]HK and Sig? Ferrari and Lambo? Can't go wrong with either. Someone, somewhere near you has to offer a HK for rent. :)

[\QUOTE]

That is probably true but i am a member and get free rentals at my shop! haha

of course it would be pretty stupid to buy a ~$800 piece without shooting it first for 20 bucks!

Unit74
01-18-2010, 1:15 PM
My range doesnt have any HK's for rent but i really like the safety feature on the USP compact so the pistol can be kept in condition 1 (bullet in chamber).



Might not help, but I have a USPc .45 you could shoot to get a feel if you wanted. I'm in the south I.E. near the Pechanga Casino.

cwiz
01-18-2010, 1:23 PM
Might not help, but I have a USPc .45 you could shoot to get a feel if you wanted. I'm in the south I.E. near the Pechanga Casino.

I just might take you up on that. I live around Irvine. My old friend from high school lives out in Temecula and I've been meaning to pay him a visit. I'll get in touch if that happens. Thanks

IrishPirate
01-18-2010, 1:30 PM
decock and use as DA....that's the way you're supposed to do it. SIG RULES!!

BlackonBlack
01-18-2010, 1:34 PM
Both are fabulous guns and should do the job more than sufficient. However, if pressed, I'd prefer HK. I shopped and shopped and compared Sig vs HK, although bought have their merits, I preferred the feel and looks of the HK. The decocker lever on the SIG was a little uncomfortable foe me to operate when compared to the HK. I also really like the fact an HK can be carried cocked and locked which would be my favorite way of carrying. HK's just give that added plus of carrying versatility.

Another thing i dislike about Sig is that they make so many different styles versions and models. I always forget the numbered names and get them confused.

the_donald_
01-18-2010, 1:51 PM
Iron Sights in Oceanside has an HK for rent the last time I checked. If you can't make it to the Pechanga area, then this is the next best thing (probably an hour & 15 away from you). I originally went to Iron Sights specifically to rent the HK during my 5 month search for my primary, but when I got there, it was unavailable (apparently out for repair or cleaning).

To this day I regret not shooting one before buying my primary. BTW, I was dead set on buying a P229 in .40 cal, but ended up shooting a few 1911s & after that, buying any Sig P22x took a back seat. Carrying Condition 1 feels safe for me, if that makes you more comfortable than using a DA trigger for your first shot, then definitely rent/borrow an HK. There's no substitute for practical hands-on research.

I keep going back to the P229 at On Target & will buy one eventually (perhaps as a gift for my fiance ;) ).

Either way, good luck, buy what you're most comfortable with, & enjoy it.

leelaw
01-18-2010, 2:29 PM
dont give me that macho 'my finger is my safey' bs cuz accidents DO happen.

Accidents involving putting your finger on the trigger?

A safety won't help you if you're complacent with a loaded firearm.

As to the HK vs Sig. They are both fine pistols. I prefer the Sig over the HK by far, due mainly to the terrible trigger in the HK.

The Sig is carried decocked, with a round in the chamber. The long first trigger pull is the "safety" of the gun, requiring much more pressure and travel to be applied to the trigger in order to fire the pistol. It works fine, and is trustworthy as long as (you can call this BS if you wish) the shooter obeys the 4 rules of handling firearms.

Both firearms have drop safeties built in, so the chances of a dropped firearm discharging is very very low, and probably equal chances between the two.

cwiz
01-18-2010, 3:00 PM
On Target is my range too. I just called to double check about any HK's for rent and he said they were at the factory getting repaired. I was like, cool so they will be available some time in the future and he said they were going to stop offering them.
that seemed alittle strange to me, but whatever i'm not going to argue with the guy.
Strange in that they sell sigs and not HK's :toetap05: HHHHMmmm

cwiz
01-18-2010, 3:03 PM
Accidents involving putting your finger on the trigger?

A safety won't help you if you're complacent with a loaded firearm.

As to the HK vs Sig. They are both fine pistols. I prefer the Sig over the HK by far, due mainly to the terrible trigger in the HK.

The Sig is carried decocked, with a round in the chamber. The long first trigger pull is the "safety" of the gun, requiring much more pressure and travel to be applied to the trigger in order to fire the pistol. It works fine, and is trustworthy as long as (you can call this BS if you wish) the shooter obeys the 4 rules of handling firearms.

Both firearms have drop safeties built in, so the chances of a dropped firearm discharging is very very low, and probably equal chances between the two.


No, just concerned with the 99.999% of the time my finger is NOT on the trigger.
I think a BlackHawk holster i.e. http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=LP427
will make carrying it safer with no trigger locking safety

jayhuh
01-18-2010, 3:49 PM
On Target is my range too. I just called to double check about any HK's for rent and he said they were at the factory getting repaired. I was like, cool so they will be available some time in the future and he said they were going to stop offering them.
that seemed alittle strange to me, but whatever i'm not going to argue with the guy.
Strange in that they sell sigs and not HK's :toetap05: HHHHMmmm

I was there 1 week ago and they were selling HK's...

hkusp9c
01-18-2010, 4:25 PM
I was just like you when i was first shopping for my first handgun. I liked the thumb safety on the HK but I didnt like the grip and got P229 instead. I've been training with it and lack of thumb safety wasnt an issue at all as long as the rules of firearms safety were followed. The macho "your finger is your safety" is indeed the golden rule. And all firearms may be fired with or without the thumb safety if dropped. I also bought a serpa blackhawk holster too but it was actually kind of a waste of money since i am not into OC and none of the ranges around me allowed holsters.

samsigsauer
01-18-2010, 4:34 PM
Depending on what I feel like, I carry the Sig 229 in 9mm or HK P2000 in 40. I use to carry HK USP Compact in 40...Although I have the entire USP compact line, I prefer the HK P2000. I use to carry the Sig 229 in 40 but I had to many off-duty weapons on my card, plus with the fact of the ammo costs to qualify. Besides the Sig 229 and HK, I also have a Kahr PM9 and Glock 26 as options.

The Sig and HK are fine weapons, you just have to find out what works for you!

That is my two cents...

Miltiades
01-18-2010, 4:45 PM
I own both of those guns and like them both. I've had the Sig about 9 years and have put maybe 3000 rounds through it. I've had the USP40c for 5 years and have put maybe 1500 rounds through it.

Both guns seem very reliable and equally accurate to me. My target groups are about the same at any given distance. The Sig is about 8 ounces heavier than the USP, so it seems to recoil less. The USP would be easier to carry all day because of its lower weight, but the Sig might be a better range gun.

The trigger on the Sig seems very good to me, both double and single action. With a little practice you can fire the first double action shot without any noticeable loss of accuracy. I would say the USP trigger is about 90% as good as the Sig trigger, given my personal preferences for triggers.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/SigP22930.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/pogo2/HKUSP40c30.jpg

Saym14
01-18-2010, 7:35 PM
the HK allows you the option of cocked and locked. I like that. they both can be carried saftey off (or none) with a round in the chamber and DA first shot. cant go wrong with either.

theseacow
01-18-2010, 7:56 PM
ive always much preferred the feel of the Sig. the HK just doesnt feel as solid IMHO.

donger
01-18-2010, 8:13 PM
It will come down to personal preference. Although the Sig DA is much better than the USP trigger, both are equally accurate.

The Glock 19 is a better weapon than either. :p

theseacow
01-18-2010, 8:22 PM
The Glock 19 is a better weapon than either. :p

quiet heathen!

bigcalidave
01-19-2010, 12:04 AM
The HK is a champ, dead accurate. I cuddle with mine. Wolff springs and a little tuning on the trigger, excellent. One of these days I'll get the light LEM trigger for it.

fullrearview
01-19-2010, 12:36 AM
Im a sig guy but I carry a H&K usp 40....After I put the glock condom on it, I am really starting to like the H&K....Both are great guns! Save yourself the trouble and buy both!

forgiven
01-19-2010, 12:39 AM
To the OP. I own both and have become quite comfortable with a bullet in the chamber. Just a personal preference.

wildhawker
01-19-2010, 12:42 AM
I agree 100% with Lee in every respect.

I've owned both in a number of flavors.

Accidents involving putting your finger on the trigger?

A safety won't help you if you're complacent with a loaded firearm.

As to the HK vs Sig. They are both fine pistols. I prefer the Sig over the HK by far, due mainly to the terrible trigger in the HK.

The Sig is carried decocked, with a round in the chamber. The long first trigger pull is the "safety" of the gun, requiring much more pressure and travel to be applied to the trigger in order to fire the pistol. It works fine, and is trustworthy as long as (you can call this BS if you wish) the shooter obeys the 4 rules of handling firearms.

Both firearms have drop safeties built in, so the chances of a dropped firearm discharging is very very low, and probably equal chances between the two.

BilletGarage
02-24-2010, 12:49 AM
I bought my SIG 229 .40 cal back in 2001 around the same time my buddy bought his H&K. We've been shooting together for years. He's a military guy, tour in Iraq, now in law enforcement. About 2 years ago things finally came to a head one day out shooting. We had a little competition and to both of our surprise I was out shooting him by a high margin. He was not happy. We switched guns and he started mopping the floor with me. By the end of the following week he purchased a 229R and rarely shoots the H&K now. Both SIG and H&K have a good reputation but I can say from experience that I find the SIG to be a better gun in both accuracy and build. For instance, you'll notice the slide on the SIG is on rails that run the full length of the frame where the H&K relies on tabs. The recoil spring on the SIG is spun piano type wire that they claim will never have a memory where the H&K utilizes a more simplistic tempered spring. Please don't think I'm bashing the H&K because I'm not. It's a fine gun, but the SIG is a BETTER gun IMHO. Good luck with your decision.

Oh and BTW, on the safety v's no safety, I was concerned with this at first when I bought my SIG. However, the de-cocker and heavy DA trigger pull on the SIG makes this a non-issue in my experience.

MarioS
02-24-2010, 1:55 AM
I actually had the chance to shoot the P229 and HK USPc, both in .40S&W, at the same time because I was debating which one to buy between the two. Completely subjective, but the P229 felt so natural and comfortable to shoot for me, that it was an immediate choice. It took me only about 30 rounds through the USPc to figure out that it was just not for me. Recoil felt snappier (worse), and the overall experience just wasn't great; it really felt like I was holding a plastic gun, way more so than a Glock. I also do not like the magazine release location on the USP. Again, these comments really won't mean much to you probably.

I did keep my P229 with one in the chamber all the time, even in a holster. The hammer is down in the DA setting so there is nothing that can strike the firing pin while you are carrying, and the somewhat long 10lb. DA trigger pull makes it a bit better.

himurax13
02-24-2010, 5:43 AM
I love my Sigs but I was interested in getting an HK USP compact. The HK fit nicely in the hand and I love the ambi magazine release and the option of carrying it in DA mode or condition 1. However I did not like the spur-less hammer and the horrid trigger pull of the stock HK trigger. The trigger reminds me of the horrid SA/DA trigger pull of the full size HK USP Pistols. I also don't understand why HK does not offer an ambi safety as a standard feature. I also find it harder to find people to do custom work on HK guns. Sigs, on the other hand are easier to work on and most of the mods can be done by anybody who can fully dissasemble and reassemble a Sig. When a Sig is in DA mode, it is nearly impossible for the gun to accidentally go off without fully depressing the trigger. That is nearly true of any SA/DA gun.

thomasanelson
02-24-2010, 8:47 AM
Have both and love both. For me, regarding carry, the Sig P229 is a brick compared to the HK USPc, plus I like the ergos on the HK more. Regarding Home defense: I personally like the ability to de-cock which both can do....I not only de-cock on my USP, but also use the safety (while de-cocked) for an added measure of safely in the event someone (i.e. kid or wife) actually manages to open my quick release safe.

Blade
02-24-2010, 1:50 PM
From what I've read of your post and comments, you should get the HK.