PDA

View Full Version : AR and shooting range question


Paradiddle
12-27-2005, 4:04 PM
Have any of you guys with legal registered ARs and CA legal 10 round mags ever been hassled by the RO while shooting them at San Gabrial, Burro, or Lytle Creek?

I'm afraid to take mine out of the safe...

Which range would you deem most friendly to the black rifle?

Thanks,

Jeff

TonyM
12-27-2005, 4:08 PM
Have any of you guys with legal registered ARs and CA legal 10 round mags ever been hassled by the RO while shooting them at San Gabrial, Burro, or Lytle Creek?

I'm afraid to take mine out of the safe...

Which range would you deem most friendly to the black rifle?

Thanks,

Jeff

Bring a copy of your registration with you. What can they say?

The only reason to be afraid is if you have one that isn't registered.

Paradiddle
12-27-2005, 4:09 PM
Bring a copy of your registration with you. What can they say?

The only reason to be afraid is if you have one that isn't registered.

Can I get a copy of it from the DOJ? I have no idea where the paperwork is (I know I'm an idiot)

uzigalil
12-27-2005, 4:13 PM
you dont need to have a copy of your reg. I shoot my pre-94 ar's all the time at public ranges and no one ever says anything.

Mute
12-27-2005, 4:33 PM
I've never been hassled but if you're paranoid, just bring a copy of your registration.

bu-bye
12-27-2005, 6:24 PM
I've never been hassled but if you're paranoid, just bring a copy of your registration.

A few of my buddies have pre-ban AR's and they never get more then a big SEG smile from people who wish that had an AR:D

I have heard of people, who don't know the law, b!tch to range masters about them being banned in Cali but I have never heard of anyone being taken in for a check while shooting at the range. Now, if you are pulled over while driving and the cop sees the AR, I'm willing to bet he is going to run a check on that AR. Its good to keep a copy with you and keep the real reg in safe at home or bank.

LongBch_SigP226
12-27-2005, 6:40 PM
Right after the California AW ban took effect, I saw L.A. county Sheriff hanging out at the Burro Canyon a lot. They seemed to be interested in people with banned weapons but they didn't come around checking to see if the guns were registered. If yours is registered, you got nothing to be worried about. If you are paranoid, you should keep a copy of registration confirmation letter from CA DOJ. It will also save you time in case you get questioned by LEO. Just show him the paper and he'll go away or else they'll have to run it thru their system. Who knows how long that is going to take.

JS-M1A
12-27-2005, 7:34 PM
Last range trip I quizzed a LEO at the range about how they can tell
if an AW is registered. I was told when they run you that any
registered assault weapons would show up.
Do we have any LEO`s on the board who could
let us know if this is true?

HeHateMe
12-27-2005, 8:10 PM
I never seen any one get hassled at my local range. They either get big grins or pitiful looks of jealousy from those without.

DrjonesUSA
12-27-2005, 8:20 PM
Glad to see this thread as I had the exact same question.

I'm also very glad to see that people don't get hassled.

Any more input from others??

Thanks!

delloro
12-27-2005, 9:02 PM
ranges on land leased from the BLM are subject to BLM conditions. one condition at the Inland F&G range was that AWs can't have more than 5 rds in the mag. non AWs (e.g., mini-14s) can have as many as the mag will hold.

so the RO would sometimes remind shooters of that fact.

there is a new lease now, and i don't know what BLM requires of them anymore. they used to say no AWs on open BLM land, but that has since changed. I hope the range doesn't have to enforce the silly 5-rd. max rule anymore. but they used to.

Hitman
12-28-2005, 7:43 AM
Been to both of those ranges bringing all my evil AW and no one bothers me. Once in a while they would ask if i had a real silencer since some of my rifles had the "fake can" on. I shoot it and show them it isn't real.

I have been at a range before and a few officers would come by and check out my gear purely on a social level, but they never bring up the question if it was registered or not.

Paradiddle
12-28-2005, 9:04 AM
Thanks guys. Can you get a copy of your reg from the DOJ or is that something a LEO can get from their computers? I know a few Policemen.

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 10:12 AM
Here in the East Bay Area, supposedly there were some DOJ LEO types checking at the local range last year, but this is the only time I have heard of this - could be a myth.

Coyote Point Range in San Mateo is run by the County Sheriff and it states on their website that AW's may be checked for valid reg.

I have not been hassled, BUT, I had two LEO's giving me the eye one time. I was never sure if they were envious (they had Mini-14's) or if they were sizing me up.

I suggest you get a copy of your papers for the file.

icormba
12-28-2005, 10:50 AM
Biggest problems I run into come from fellow shooters who complain that I am shooting "an illegal" weapon. For those people I'm not about to pull out my registration papers with all my info for them to see.

I'll gladly show the range master if they wish, but most don't really care. I get "hassled" more by the range masters about my fixed mag FAL!

I do hear the CHP will run your numbers regardless if you have your papers or not... Local PD's could probably go either way depending on how you present yourself... i.e. the circumstances of you getting pulled over? But these are all just "rumors" I hear.

Either way, it's always a good thing to bring copies along. What ever you do... don't let them take them from you!! (if they are indeed registered!)
BUT!! don't say anything to them in a threaten manner... just say, "Ok, but I am gonna have to go in with you if you don't mind."

icormba
12-28-2005, 10:56 AM
I had two LEO's giving me the eye one time. I was never sure if they were envious (they had Mini-14's) or if they were sizing me up.


That's just something cops do! ;) I was at a house warming party 2 weeks ago... half the people being cops. I knew which half by all the eyes "sizing" me and all the other non-cops up! haha!! :)

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 11:10 AM
[QUOTE=icormba] I do hear the CHP will run your numbers regardless if you have your papers or not... Local PD's could probably go either way depending on how you present yourself... i.e. the circumstances of you getting pulled over? But these are all just "rumors" I hear.
QUOTE]

Not clear on this - please explane. I have only been stopped three times - twice for speeding, once for tresspass (illegal 4x4 activity - oops), but with either occasion I was never questioned regarding weapons nor asked to allow a vehicle search. Assuming your AW's or other firearm is properly secured in the vehicle - ie unloaded and in the required locked container - why would the CHP or anyone else be able to get their hands on it to run numbers etc.? There is still such a thing as Probable Cause. A

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 12:43 PM
That's just something cops do! ;) I was at a house warming party 2 weeks ago... half the people being cops. I knew which half by all the eyes "sizing" me and all the other non-cops up! haha!! :)



How exactly do cops "size people up"?

I'm aware of my surroundings (and love to people watch anyway) so I wonder if they do anything differently than I do, as I check everyone out.

ESPECIALLY hot girls!!! :D :D

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 12:50 PM
How exactly do cops "size people up"?

I'm aware of my surroundings (and love to people watch anyway) so I wonder if they do anything differently than I do, as I check everyone out.

ESPECIALLY hot girls!!! :D :D

In my case, the two LEO's made several passes by my bench and each time looking over the rifles and speaking in each others ear. Next they watched me shoot, what went in/came out of the range bag, and seemed to be observing how I carried myself. All of this without a "friendly" have a nice day shooting smile - but with a more "your a purp and need to be observed" look on their faces. :rolleyes:

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 12:54 PM
In my case, the two LEO's made several passes by my bench and each time looking over the rifles and speaking in each others ear. Next they watched me shoot, what went in/came out of the range bag, and seemed to be observing how I carried myself. All of this without a "friendly" have a nice day shooting smile - but with a more "your a purp and need to be observed" look on their faces. :rolleyes:



Were they wearing badges? How did you know they were LEO?

If I was shooting & someone (especially TWO people) were checking me out like that, I'd call over the RO.

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 12:59 PM
Were they wearing badges? How did you know they were LEO?

If I was shooting & someone (especially TWO people) were checking me out like that, I'd call over the RO.

This was a weekday, at a County run range, frequented by cops and military. Their rifles were a Mini-14 and Remingotn 700 PSS's that appeared LEO issue, and based upon their actions and appearance, my assumption is they were LEO. As having two LEO friends, I beleive my assumption correct.

bwiese
12-28-2005, 12:59 PM
You can request a list of your reg'd AWs from DOJ.

I got an updated copy when I sold my crappy Mini 14 folder 3+ years ago and told DOJ it was no longer in my possession.

I always carry a copy in my glove box along with my car reg/insurance papers.

I carry a reduced one in a baggie in my AWs with trapdoor buttstocks, and a spare copy in pocket in my rifle bags.

While cops can check AW status, there are provisions in CA AW law that restrict info being exchanged en clair over the airwaves (except in emergencies or crime, etc.) But apparently AFS (automated firearms system) link to MDT systems goes out with some frequency.

This just makes things easier, instead of a possible, "well, the MDT system is down, so we're gonna take this gun and when you show proof of reg you can get it back."

Given prospective tightening of AW matters I think ANY Calif AW owner should get his papers.

Already we had one member here who lost his paperwork and was cited and DOJ didn't have proper reg info on file.

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 1:03 PM
Already we had one member here who lost his paperwork and was cited and DOJ didn't have proper reg info on file.

Ugg,
can some specifics on this be given - how, when, and where was the person cited.

bwiese
12-28-2005, 1:15 PM
Ugg,
can some specifics on this be given - how, when, and where was the person cited.

It was on the old board - his name was "fire_chief" I think. Dim memory of details. This was up north of Sacramento.

He had a fire at his house. Investigators found AWs and some banned AP ammo and a "sniper scope". Got forwarded to DA and charges filed.

The AW stuff was dropped once the reg was found to be OK, but it took some digging. It finally dropped down to a sniperscope charge, and I can't remember if he had to pay a small fine and lose the scope, or if that was dropped too.

Never rely on info to be properly stored in gov't computers. It's only as good as the data entry and the quality of database administration. Given that usu only substandard folks work in gov't jobs, esp IT, you're best off keeping your own paper copies somewhere safe.



An attorney has told me that 90+% of unreg'd AW violations in California are due to domestic situations - not necessarily domestic violence, but when some occurrence triggers .GOV coming to your home. An acquaintance lost an AR10 that way (elderly unstable father). Your kid(s) could have some police matters, you could get sick, you could have a house fire, etc.

icormba
12-28-2005, 1:15 PM
[QUOTE=icormba] I do hear the CHP will run your numbers regardless if you have your papers or not... Local PD's could probably go either way depending on how you present yourself... i.e. the circumstances of you getting pulled over? But these are all just "rumors" I hear.
QUOTE]

Not clear on this - please explane. I have only been stopped three times - twice for speeding, once for tresspass (illegal 4x4 activity - oops), but with either occasion I was never questioned regarding weapons nor asked to allow a vehicle search. Assuming your AW's or other firearm is properly secured in the vehicle - ie unloaded and in the required locked container - why would the CHP or anyone else be able to get their hands on it to run numbers etc.? There is still such a thing as Probable Cause. A

as noted above: "But these are all just "rumors" I hear."
Many local PD friends have told me that Highway Patrol officers are "tight-*****'S". those are their words, not mine. "And that they have nothing better to do"... again, not my words. I think they must have some type of rivalry or something? ;) Kinda like Fireman & Police... each think they are better than the other, mostly for fun I'm sure.

And I totally agree... whenever I've been pulled over here in Ca, it's been... "Have you been drinking... ". None have ever asked if I had any weapons. But you never know!

I was driving through Texas on a cross country trip when I got pulled over for not using my "blinker" for a lane change. The first thing the State Trooper asked was if I had any weapons. I said yes. He asked what I had. I told him a Berretta 9mm locked in a case in the trunk. He asked if I had a permit. I told him no, & that California doesn't require us to carry a permit. We then both walked back to his patrol car while he called in my ID information. He said ok and gave me a warning for "failure to signal". He then let me on my way.

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 1:21 PM
It was on the old board - his name was "fire_chief" I think. Dim memory of details. This was up north of Sacramento.

He had a fire at his house. Investigators found AWs and some banned AP ammo and a "sniper scope". Got forwarded to DA and charges filed.

The AW stuff was dropped once the reg was found to be OK, but it took some digging. It finally dropped down to a sniperscope charge, and I can't remember if he had to pay a small fine and lose the scope, or if that was dropped too.

Never rely on info to be properly stored in gov't computers. It's only as good as the data entry and the quality of database administration. Given that usu only substandard folks work in gov't jobs, esp IT, you're best off keeping your own paper copies somewhere safe.



An attorney has told me that 90+% of unreg'd AW violations in California are due to domestic situations - not necessarily domestic violence, but when some occurrence triggers .GOV coming to your home. An acquaintance lost an AR10 that way (elderly unstable father). Your kid(s) could have some police matters, you could get sick, you could have a house fire, etc.


Thanks - this makes sense how they would get ya.
A sniper scope, what the "H" is a sniper scope? I know it is listed as a dangerous weapon, but now days with the top-end equipment available - anything would be classified as a sniper scope. I assume this means the night vision types that are now available cheap.

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 1:31 PM
[QUOTE=M1A Rifleman]
Many local PD friends have told me that Highway Patrol officers are "tight-*****'S". those are their words, not mine. "And that they have nothing better to do"... again, not my words. I think they must have some type of rivalry or something? ;) Kinda like Fireman & Police... each think they are better than the other, mostly for fun I'm sure.

Well, the CHP are the ones who tackled & dragged that woman from her home in New Orleans.....

I'll bet most of 'em are itching to do the same here at home.


[b]I was driving through Texas on a cross country trip when I got pulled over for not using my "blinker" for a lane change. The first thing the State Trooper asked was if I had any weapons. I said yes. He asked what I had. I told him a Berretta 9mm locked in a case in the trunk. He asked if I had a permit. I told him no, & that California doesn't require us to carry a permit. We then both walked back to his patrol car while he called in my ID information. He said ok and gave me a warning for "failure to signal". He then let me on my way.[b]


I thought he was going to ask you to see it & maybe offer to buy it from you or maybe talk guns for a bit. It's not unheard of for local cops to be very gun friendly in America. (Outside of the communist country of California, that is.)

delloro
12-28-2005, 1:32 PM
a sniperscope is a gun scope that projects an IR light and detects IR light. ATN sells a lot of that stuff. it originally applied to the snooperscope from the korean war, m/b WWII.

http://oldguns.net/12107.jpg

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 1:32 PM
Thanks - this makes sense how they would get ya.
A sniper scope, what the "H" is a sniper scope? I know it is listed as a dangerous weapon, but now days with the top-end equipment available - anything would be classified as a sniper scope. I assume this means the night vision types that are now available cheap.



There is a legal definition of "sniper scope"??

WTH is that?

bwiese
12-28-2005, 1:35 PM
I remember that name. First I've heard about the "sniperscope" issue.

Wasn't the situation one where he and his neighbor had an issue and when the local LE showed up, he had an AW out in the open?

I think that was another guy.

The issue ended up being an ATN scope that had a built-in infrared illuminator. His did not have the battery in it so it was not operational, apparently - that may have saved him, not sure.

Sniperscopes are banned by law. Night vision scopes are OK, just can't have an attached illuminator.

Yeah, this guy had multiple counts - unreg'd AWs, AP ammo, and sniperscopes.

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 1:37 PM
I think that was another guy.

The issue ended up being an ATN scope that had a built-in infrared illuminator. His did not have the battery in it so it was not operational, apparently - that may have saved him, not sure.

Sniperscopes are banned by law. Night vision scopes are OK, just can't have an attached illuminator.

Yeah, this guy had multiple counts - unreg'd AWs, AP ammo, and sniperscopes.


AP is illegal in CA? (No surprise if it is)

What is the "rationale" for banning sniper scopes?

What is the purpose of the IR light anyway? Seems like NV scopes would be more dangerous.

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 1:44 PM
WTH would you mount THAT on an M1 Carbine???

:confused:

:rolleyes:

edbon9
12-28-2005, 1:46 PM
WTH would you mount THAT on an M1 Carbine???

:confused:

:rolleyes:


ted's m1a was in the shop :) hehehe

M1A Rifleman
12-28-2005, 1:46 PM
WTH would you mount THAT on an M1 Carbine???

:confused:

:rolleyes:

it's sort of like, "pimp my rifle" :)

Mike Searson
12-28-2005, 2:09 PM
There's a bit of 2 stories being confused.

Firechief, or whatever his name was...was the guy who lived close to where my property was in Calaveras County, which is a good 50 miles southeast of sackotomatoes.

He had problems with neighbors...I don't recall the details,but I seem to recall they were possibly the degenerate california inbred country folk that like to grow marijuana or run meth labs. The gold country is plagued with them!

They were making a ruckuss/trespassing/etc and his wife called the sheriff on them.the guy in question then took a Colt Marked AR15 to walk his property line and when he got back to the house the deputies were waiting. He was under the impression his rifle was registered. Turned out he had tried registering a Roberti-Roos gun in 2000...apparently this was a "no-no" and he never read his rejection letter until he was arrested/harrassed in 2004.

He may have had 1 or 2 other so-called assault weapons in a similar predicament...to the best of my knowledge he did receive one back from the Sheriff that had all the T's crossed and lower cased j's dotted...the other 1 or 2 guns in question are his, no longer...he had no problems with whatever hoplophobic ignorant cookie pushing gerrymandered liberal thugs might refer to as a sniperscope...nor did he have any "AP" rounds.

I think he took Bill's advice as being too condescending and he was convinced I was a mole from DOJ because I repeated the story to him from how it was printed in the Calaveras Newspaper.

Takes all kinds.

Draven
12-29-2005, 1:47 AM
WTH would you mount THAT on an M1 Carbine???

:confused:

:rolleyes:

Counter-sniper use.

Sheldon
12-29-2005, 8:05 AM
I shoot mine at SGVGC and see a lot of others there with them as well. Never been hassled or seen anyone else hassled. I see guys every now and then that look aweful young to have a preban, but never seen any problems with them either.

DrjonesUSA
12-29-2005, 8:31 AM
Counter-sniper use.


.30 Carbine is not a long-range, counter-sniper round, nor is it a sniper round, which is why I was so surprised to see an optic like that mounted on that particular rifle.

Draven
12-29-2005, 9:26 AM
.30 Carbine is not a long-range, counter-sniper round, nor is it a sniper round, which is why I was so surprised to see an optic like that mounted on that particular rifle.

Nevertheless, that is what they were used for.

Shoot-it
12-31-2005, 1:24 AM
That happened too me last time I talked to an CHP officer we talked about his AR15 he had in his car.It was a good 30 minutes that we talked he was a very nice guy. I was called to an acident by my brother. The CHP could not put down a beef cow that got hit on the road A young cop shot the cow 5 times 223 ar15. I shot it once with a slug !! The problem he shot to low on the forhead.

MaceWindu
12-31-2005, 8:13 AM
Not clear on this - please explane. I have only been stopped three times - twice for speeding, once for tresspass (illegal 4x4 activity - oops), but with either occasion I was never questioned regarding weapons nor asked to allow a vehicle search. Assuming your AW's or other firearm is properly secured in the vehicle - ie unloaded and in the required locked container - why would the CHP or anyone else be able to get their hands on it to run numbers etc.? There is still such a thing as Probable Cause. A


Bingo...

Another point: The RO is NOT there to "enforce" the AW ban, he is there to makes sure that eveyone is "safe" and goes home the same way they came.

If there is a range where shooters are "complaining" about your assault weapon, I give them the "one finger salute" because it's NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS. When I see a guy with an AR/ AK, I am glad for him and will give him the thumbs up.

Don't take this as harsh, because I will ALWAYS help a fellow shooter, always, if requested. I helped several acquire lowers (several from this board).

I am pro POPO. Many of my bros are. But, WTF, would and officer pull you over and ask about your "AW"? WE all know that an "AW" must be in a locked container, by law. So how would he see it? Long guns, other than an "AW" DO NOT.

Mace

KrazyKevy
12-31-2005, 5:06 PM
I see guys every now and then that look aweful young to have a preban, but never seen any problems with them either.

To young shouldnt really mean anything. A guy/girl can be 23 years old and have a registered assult rifle in their name.

My friend has a registered Mak90 and another has a AR15, when we take both to the range all eyes are on us. I hated when he took the Mak90 with us, we got dirty looks from all sorts of people. One incedent I remember was with a LEO shooting next to us, not sure what kind of officer he was but he did not know anything. I know what you mean when you say "sizing us up". He eyeballed us from the moment we took the rifle out the bag til we left. A RO came in to sweep the range and the LEO said in a loud voice behind us "You always let people bring illegal guns to your range?!!?" Me and my friend looked at each other like WTF! The RO knows us personally and said, "These guys shoot here all the time, that rifle is registered and grandfathered in". LEO reply "What does grandfathered mean?" :rolleyes:

]-|-[ GunBomB
12-31-2005, 5:29 PM
I actually spoke with an officer in Hayward PD today about this. He's a real good friend, but LE should not, nor do they even really have the right to inspect your personal property. They must assume the rifle is legal and registered, only BG's use weapons in crime and true LE knows this. And since it's your rifle and not the gov't, it's actually personal, private property. LE needs probable cause, and a search warrant to act. When people get caught up with the law in regards to illegal weaponry, it's usually because they got in a fight with their old lady, and she sells his arse up the creek.

delloro
01-01-2006, 11:28 AM
...The RO is NOT there to "enforce" the AW ban,...

they are if the range is on BLM land and the terms of the BLM lease require the RO to do so. I don't know how many ranges are actually on BLM land, the one near me is, maybe it's the only one, but maybe not.

lazyman
01-01-2006, 12:04 PM
you dont need to have a copy of your reg. I shoot my pre-94 ar's all the time at public ranges and no one ever says anything.

+1, you don't need to carry your registration papers with you. Cops can check your AW registration through your drivers license. Make sure your info there is up to date and you are good to go