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freshdesigns@hotmail.com
01-17-2010, 5:24 PM
Any lawyers out there 100% know these crazy laws (appreciate keeping this to who are really knowledgable on the law and not to vent the stupidity of the laws -- although I feel your pain)?

With a small 2-3" FIXED blade knife (not folders), what are the legal requirements? Here's what I THINK, based on search:

~ Must be attached to belt
~ Must not be completely concealed by untucked shirt or jacket
~ No blade length limitation

But I do always wear my shirts untucked and the short blade will probably be covered. Do I need to stick with folders only? Did I miss anything? Thanks.

bigcalidave
01-17-2010, 5:26 PM
http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/knifelaw.html

Try there first. And search, there are a LOT of threads about this.

Decoligny
01-17-2010, 5:36 PM
Any lawyers out there 100% know these crazy laws (appreciate keeping this to who are really knowledgable on the law and not to vent the stupidity of the laws -- although I feel your pain)?

With a small 2-3" FIXED blade knife (not folders), what are the legal requirements? Here's what I THINK, based on search:

~ Must be attached to belt
~ Must not be completely concealed by untucked shirt or jacket
~ No blade length limitation

But I do always wear my shirts untucked and the short blade will probably be covered. Do I need to stick with folders only? Did I miss anything? Thanks.

If it will be covered, it will be a violation of the law. You cannot conceal a "dirk or dagger" which means any knife which can be readily used for stabbing. This means you can't conceal an open folder, or any fixed blade knife regardless of the length.

By the letter of the law, if you have this knife in your pocket, you could be charged with a felony.

http://miniaturefirearms.net/db1/00008/miniaturefirearms.net/_uimages/PennyKnife1.JPG
If you are going to carry any fixed blade knife make sure that it is always in plain sight.

bulgron
01-17-2010, 5:57 PM
Also, there's a blade length limitation if you're on K-12 school grounds. 2.5" I think.

shooterfpga
01-17-2010, 5:59 PM
you should be fine. I carry my kbar and asek knife unconcealed. just make sure nothing unintentionally covers it.

Turo
01-17-2010, 6:04 PM
Decoligny knows his stuff. Also, the write up at the link provided is very good information. It was written by Jim March who has an excellent grasp of our convoluted (slightly less than guns) knife carry laws. Jim is also a member here under the username JimMarch1 I believe.

Cokebottle
01-17-2010, 6:12 PM
Individual counties and cities also have blade length restrictions.
I believe Los Angeles County is limited to 3.5" or 3"... but longer blades are legal during "safe passage" (traveling through the county).
There are generally exemptions to blade length restrictions for knives that are carried for business or active recreational purposes.

tombinghamthegreat
01-17-2010, 9:05 PM
Individual counties and cities also have blade length restrictions.
I believe Los Angeles County is limited to 3.5" or 3"... but longer blades are legal during "safe passage"

I think you mean LA city not county. It depends and one has to look up the local restrictions.

toopercentmlk
01-17-2010, 9:10 PM
I carry a Kershaw Leek, 3" blade if I'm not mistaken. I don't plan on commiting any felonies with it so I'm really not concerned if its 1mm over the legal length or even 1". I've been searched by police before while carrying a similar length and even SCARIER LOOKING folder and he could've cared less, probably because he had a similar one.

Turo
01-17-2010, 9:13 PM
I carry a Kershaw Leek, 3" blade if I'm not mistaken. I don't plan on commiting any felonies with it so I'm really not concerned if its 1mm over the legal length or even 1". I've been searched by police before while carrying a similar length and even SCARIER LOOKING folder and he could've cared less, probably because he had a similar one.

If you carry a folder concealed, LA has no specific law against how long it can be. They ban open carry of 3"+ blades, not concealed. Heck I've carried a 6" folder along with a 4" folder all through LA. Don't worry about it.
Plus, there's usually exceptions for "lawful recreation" and I'm sure a lawyer could swing that to mean whatever the heck he wants it.

cbn620
01-17-2010, 9:45 PM
I've done it a couple times. I would do it regularly, but don't for a number of reasons, currently. Firstly, while worn at the belt openly does not constitute a concealed dirk or dagger, like the OP I've always been concerned about finicky police interpreting an inch or so of accidental shirt tail as "concealed" even if anywhere from 4/5 to 19/20 of the knife is not covered. Secondly, and to that end described above, I have no personal legal representation nor any organization's support (such as Calguns) giving a go ahead on open carry. I cannot fight and squander in court over whether 99/100 of a knife being exposed is "concealed" and do not want to go to prison, or even spend a night in jail, for it.

Last but certainly not least, as with pretty much everything in this wonderful state we call home, I worry immensely about harassment under color of law. Since I am quick to be unnerved, I absolutely do not need extra law enforcement attention with the possibility of unintentionally saying something/acting in a way that would result in having some speed holes (probably 40 or 50 if Fresno PD is handling the 'sitch) involuntary installed into my thoracic cavity.

From what I understand you said you'd appreciate a lawyers only sort of discussion, but you seem to be perfectly aware of the actual law and I don't think any lawyer is going to grant any miracles here. It's kind of a crappy situation, so I thought I'd give my opinion which is for the most part a sentiment well echoed on these and other forums.

Lagduf
01-17-2010, 9:46 PM
Who makes a good 4" folder?

I keep seeing 2.5"-3" folders online.

I don't wanna carry around my KBAR all the time :D

cbn620
01-17-2010, 9:50 PM
I believe the CRKT M16 "big dogs" are up there in the 4 incher range. Good luck finding one though, I can't seem to these day. Save for ebay or sites wanting way too much for em.

aermotor
01-17-2010, 11:54 PM
Who makes a good 4" folder?

I keep seeing 2.5"-3" folders online.

I don't wanna carry around my KBAR all the time :D


Cold Steel Recon 1 is a great option. A little bulky but very solid, big handle, big blade.

D-Man
01-18-2010, 7:24 AM
CRKT Folding Hissatsu. .3.875" blade, assisted opening. It was designed as a fighting knife, holds a great edge, lifetime warranty, and was designed to be California legal from the ground up. Love mine!

cineski
01-18-2010, 7:27 AM
Get a Benchmade and be done with it.

dreamerof1
01-18-2010, 8:19 AM
Benchmade 710, FTW!

Mac Attack
01-18-2010, 8:33 AM
What is the rule regarding concealing a fixed blade which has a blade length less than 2 inches? I have an Emerson LaGriffe which is a great knife with an OAL of 4.9" and blade length of 1.75". The Emerson LaGriffe comes with a kneck sheath which makes carrying everyday easy. I'm just wondering if I am breaking the law by carrying my sub 2" fixed blade concealed under my tie or shirt.

Here a link to a LaGriffe http://www.1sks.com/store/emerson-lagriffe.html#

383green
01-18-2010, 8:46 AM
What is the rule regarding concealing a fixed blade which has a blade length less than 2 inches?

Already answered in post #3. With a pretty picture, even. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3656512&postcount=3)

PlacerTactical
01-18-2010, 8:55 AM
I have the CRKT M16-14SF 3.85" Tanto blade. I have sold several of these to LEO friends and they seem to like them as well. I initially thought it would be too big, I got over that quickly. Its easier to grip even with gloves.

SeanCasey
01-18-2010, 9:55 AM
+1 to the CRKT M16-14SF. I just bought one at a friends recommendation and couldn't be happied with it.

Decoligny
01-18-2010, 2:41 PM
I think you mean LA city not county. It depends and one has to look up the local restrictions.

La City has it's own ordinance, and it is an almost 100% mirror to the LA County ordinance.

CnCFunFactory
01-18-2010, 4:46 PM
Who makes a good 4" folder?

I keep seeing 2.5"-3" folders online.

I don't wanna carry around my KBAR all the time :D

Emerson knives. IMHO everything else pales in comparison, including Benchmade.

freshdesigns@hotmail.com
01-18-2010, 4:49 PM
I'm inquiring about FIXED blades only.

tpliquid1
01-18-2010, 4:51 PM
can we carry a fixed blade in the trunk of the car?

freshdesigns@hotmail.com
01-18-2010, 4:52 PM
Only if you're in the trunk with it attached to your belt and not concealed in any way! ;)

CnCFunFactory
01-18-2010, 4:54 PM
I'm inquiring about FIXED blades only.

Yep I understand that. :)The guy I quoted asked specifically about folders hence the reason I quoted him and answered his question only. :rolleyes:

Cokebottle
01-18-2010, 6:05 PM
can we carry a fixed blade in the trunk of the car?
The "dirk or dagger" statute specifies "on or about the person"

As with a handgun, a locked container should be fine, as should any method of transport that does not have the knife within reach of any person in the car.

TD22057
01-18-2010, 9:33 PM
FYI you can search the LA county code here:

http://search.municode.com/html/16274/index.htm

And the LA city code here:

http://cityclerk.lacity.org/ordinance/

Here's the text of the county knife ordinances. It's basically identical to the city (as someone already pointed out I believe).

From my reading of various knife law forums over the years, I think the definition of "plain view" and "concealed" can vary from officer to officer and prosecutor to prosecutor. When in doubt, pick the most ridiculous definition ;) ;)


13.62.010 Knives and daggers defined.
As used in this chapter, the terms “knives and daggers” shall include any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length; any spring-blade, switch-blade or snap-blade knife; any knife any blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device; any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool; any straight-edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle. (Ord. 11915 § 1, 1979.)

13.62.020 Carrying knives and daggers in plain view prohibited.
It is unlawful for any person to carry on his person, in plain view, any knife or dagger. (Ord. 11915 § 2, 1979.)

13.62.030 Exemptions to chapter applicability.
The foregoing restrictions shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment for use in a lawful occupation or for the purpose of lawful recreation, or where the carrying of a knife or dagger is a recognized religious practice. (Ord. 11915 § 3, 1979.)

13.62.040 Violation--Penalty.
Any person violating this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not exceeding $500.00 or by imprisonment in the County Jail for a period not exceeding six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment. (Ord. 11915 § 4, 1979.)

GoodEyeSniper
01-18-2010, 10:27 PM
Who makes a good 4" folder?

I keep seeing 2.5"-3" folders online.

I don't wanna carry around my KBAR all the time :D

Plenty of good 4 inchers around. Cold Steel and CRKT are good enough. around real knife nuts, though, you will hardly hear anything too positive about these two companies' modern lineups, but knife nuts are notoriously VERY picky, often over things that don't matter too much :D

I'm a Spyderco man, and one of their best folders is the Military. Which has a 4" blade.
http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderc/images/sp36gpej.jpg

Not as tacticool as other offerings, but they are phenomenal knives. Not sure if you want to drop $140 on one, though. If I wanted something strictly for defense I'd try to find an old Spyderco Civilian
http://www.crocblades.com/images/products/C12GS.jpg

Lagduf
01-18-2010, 10:31 PM
Yep I understand that. :)The guy I quoted asked specifically about folders hence the reason I quoted him and answered his question only. :rolleyes:

Which I do appreciate.

I want a knife with a more substantial blade then what I see on most folders and I still want to be able to conceal it (hence wanting a folder rather than fixed). I'd rather not carry my KABAR around town since if my shirt fell over that it could be considered "concealed."

Stubby
01-18-2010, 10:35 PM
Who makes a good 4" folder?

I keep seeing 2.5"-3" folders online.

I don't wanna carry around my KBAR all the time :D

Try Cold Steel:
Voyager-Large, X-Large or X-2
Rajah
Spartan

Or as previously mentioned Benchmade..

Heck, how about all of the above:D

Dragunov
01-18-2010, 10:45 PM
I carry a 7" Buck Nighthawk nearly everywhere I go as It is used on my job.
I work in Sac and have never been hastled by LE over it. I tuck my shirt in and it stays on my belt unconcealed.

TD22057
01-19-2010, 8:14 AM
Benchmade 710 or 806 is another great option. Hard to beat the axis lock...

SikDMAX
01-19-2010, 8:25 AM
I carry a 7" Buck Nighthawk nearly everywhere I go as It is used on my job.
I work in Sac and have never been hastled by LE over it. I tuck my shirt in and it stays on my belt unconcealed.


If you don't mind me asking what do you do?