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View Full Version : AR15 - does yours run with Wolf ammo?


Benellishooter
12-26-2005, 5:08 PM
I took my new Stag Arms M4 style upper out yesterday. It ran 100% on American Eagle AE223 ammo. However, I ran into some short stroking on Wolf ammo . A couple per magazine.

Does your AR run well on this stuff? I have heard it is underpowered and I know it is dirty, cheap, and inaccurate. It usually runs through my Mini-14 without any problems.

(My mags are US GI, the gas rings are staggered, the upper was cleaned and properly lubed prior to shooting, ect...)

heuer5
12-26-2005, 5:56 PM
Stick with the American Eagle. :) That is just my opinion. Just ordered 1000 rounds from our pals up in Oregon.

bwiese
12-26-2005, 6:45 PM
Hiya Dave,

While Wolf may have lot-to-lot statistical variation resulting in reduced accuracy, I don't find any operation problems with it in any of my Bushmaster or Colt uppers. BTW most all of my ARs are parts guns w/name-brand subassemblies.

I have never had a dud round, FTF/FTE, etc with Wolf 55gr or 62gr (or similar JSC Barnaul ammo for that matter).

Wolf is cheap/common enough that I'd check another batch from another lot#. While others say not to rely on Wolf and put it out of your mind, I'd use this as an indicator that something about your setup may possibly be a tad marginal. So many ARs work fine with Wolf that there's something uncharacteristic about yours...

So look at these items:

I assume/hope this is a chrome-lined barrel with milspec 5.56mm chamber dimensions???


REALLY scrub that damned chamber with your chamber brush. VIGOROUSLY. There's a chance it's got testfire debris/dirt. Rough chamber can affect extraction, too. Look at your spent Wolf cases - any gouges/scrapes that seem unreasonably deep (don't consider mag lip scars).

The one time I had a prob similar to yours was with an almost-new Colt AR upper a guy was having problems with and sold me for $200. A really good chamber cleaning and scrubbing fixed it, along with proper lubrication.

If there's any way you can, use a tool feel how smooth the chamber is. If it's chrome lined it's tough and you won't hurt it.... _gently_ and _lightly_ drag a dental pick or screwdriver blade on the inside of the chamber and see if you can feel any roughness transferred to your fingertips.


Is this on a (legal, registered) standard AR lower, or some contraption with a 10rd fixed magazine? If the latter, this could be a problem. Crap mags are a top-notch cause of AR problems, esp non-USGI ones. (Bushmaster and DPMS, I believe, sell decent 10rd magazines that work.) Old mags? Put in green follower and new spring. Make sure spring is inserted correctly - sometimes folks have mags that have been incorrectly reassembled after cleaning.

For 10rd fixed mag setups, follower and spring and/or mag lips may be issues. Compare w/USGI AR mags if you have 'em. Possibly 'seating level' issue where bolt is dragging on out-of-spec mag lips on crappy mag due to incorrect mag seating height due to mag catch hole being drilled too low.


Are you lubricating to OM/TM (operator/tech manual) specs? See downloadable manuals from AR15.COM. Use BreakFree CLP. Bolt should be WET inside carrier, gas rings should have staggered gaps (I think you did that already), carrier shuld be a bit shiny-wet w/CLP inside receiver, and lugs in receiver extension and bolt lugs should be lubed nicely. Extractor and ejector should be lubed and move without grittiness when tool pressure applied.


When firing ammo that's OK, do you see any debris buildup around front sight/gas block area, or gas tube exit from gas block? Gas leak/ misalignment...


Is the 'key' loose on the bolt carrier? Does it drag at all on the gas tube projection inside the upper receiver? Bolts that are not 'staked' can loosen and leak a bit of gas, poss causing cycling failures.


What kinda buttstock and buffer/spring do you have? Mixing/matching can be a problem. Use A2 spring/buffer for A1 or A2 stock (use shorter screw in A1 stock!!!), and CAR buffer/spring in CAR stock. For CAR stock, don't use a "heavy" 9mm buffer. Don't use a cheapie "black" buffer filled with BBs/shot.



These above items usu get most folks going....


Regards, Bill

rkt88edmo
12-26-2005, 6:55 PM
It runs fine in my 16" and 20" uppers.

Gunner1
12-26-2005, 7:11 PM
Runs fine 800 rounds in my Keltec CA and 500 through the FAB10 total of two dud rounds and one hang fire (5 second delay) I have just ordered another 5k rounds to get me through the year


Gunner

icormba
12-26-2005, 7:17 PM
wolf runs ok in my new LMT 14" upper... although I've only shot about 100rds of the stuff through it.

just4fun63
12-26-2005, 8:52 PM
I think Bwiese has it on the chamber. I had the oppertunity to shoot an FBI fully suppressed m-4 and we had lots of problems with Wolf ammo. FTE mainly. The weapon was taken to the armorer and he said it had a match chamber and would not tolerate the Wolf ammo. We fired the Wolf ammo in standard m-4s with no problem, so check your chamber for crud.

BigAL
12-26-2005, 9:19 PM
I took my new Stag Arms M4 style upper out yesterday. It ran 100% on American Eagle AE223 ammo. However, I ran into some short stroking on Wolf ammo . A couple per magazine.

Does your AR run well on this stuff? I have heard it is underpowered and I know it is dirty, cheap, and inaccurate. It usually runs through my Mini-14 without any problems.

(My mags are US GI, the gas rings are staggered, the upper was cleaned and properly lubed prior to shooting, ect...)

I have run thousands of Wolf .223 rounds through my ARs and have never had short stroking problems. Yes it is underpowered but it should still cycle the weapon. In fact, I would be leary of an AR that did not run wolf since that may be a sign of problems with the gas system.

The problem may just be a breaking in issue and it may run fine once the gun loosens up. But I would definitely check the carrier key to make sure it was not loose and the screws are properly staked.

deez
12-26-2005, 10:30 PM
I've shot both 55gr and 62gr Wolf ammo and have never had a problem with either.

I was always hesitant to buy Wolf because of all the horror stories, but I finally decided to try it and found it to be cheap, decent practice ammo.

bwiese
12-26-2005, 10:33 PM
I think Bwiese has it on the chamber. I had the oppertunity to shoot an FBI fully suppressed m-4 and we had lots of problems with Wolf ammo. FTE mainly. The weapon was taken to the armorer and he said it had a match chamber and would not tolerate the Wolf ammo. We fired the Wolf ammo in standard m-4s with no problem, so check your chamber for crud.


"Match chambers" are often very tight - and not chrome-lined. Tightness, a bit of roughness (needs more finish/deburring), and lack of chrome's high 'lubricity' all can contribute to feed/extraction issues.

bwiese
12-26-2005, 10:34 PM
wolf runs ok in my new LMT 14" upper... although I've only shot about 100rds of the stuff through it.

I trust that has a flash hider or brake pinned/welded on to meet the 16" legal minimum...

Benellishooter
12-26-2005, 11:06 PM
Thanks to all. Especially Bill. It is a chrome lined barrel and chamber with a Bushmaster 10 round mag. I have lubed it as you have described and checked everything you mentioned. The bolts are staked and I have used the GI brush on the chamber and locking recess.

However, when I built my lower. The guys at Stag recommended I go with the H2 buffer on my 6 position stock. Could this be a problem?

-Dave

bwiese
12-27-2005, 2:35 AM
Dave...

Thanks to all. Especially Bill. It is a chrome lined barrel and chamber with a Bushmaster 10 round mag. I have lubed it as you have described and checked everything you mentioned. The bolts are staked and I have used the GI brush on the chamber and locking recess.

However, when I built my lower. The guys at Stag recommended I go with the H2 buffer on my 6 position stock. Could this be a problem?



Hmmm.... "H2 buffer" - is that a heavier than usual CAR buffer? Did it come with a stiffer spring?? Find out the diff (spring and buffer) btwn your setup and a regular CAR15 buffer.

That could be the problem if Wolf is a tad light in its shoes.

This is kinda similar to a 9mm AR problem I had a few years ago. Rifle just wouldn't run well with PMC 9mm ammo (115gr). FTEs, etc. Sometimes worked. The buffer + spring was just too heavy for some anemic 9mm; the Colt 9mm AR subgun was designed for hot 9mm 'black tip' subgun ammo, etc.
Rather than buy a new buffer/spring or change things (cut spring, etc.) I just stayed away from that crappy ammo.

I still think you should investigate this, though, and try a regular CAR buffer and spring. There's 30+ years of experience in knowing the right CAR buffer weight, not sure if recent 'small volume' changes are really good 'generically' across the board... that buffer+spring could just be really tuned to M855 ammo, who knows?

BigAL
12-27-2005, 10:50 AM
I run an H buffer and M16 weight carrier and my rifle still runs with wolf. The point of adding more weight is to delay the rearward movement of the bolt and carrier allowing more time for the pressures to decrease on a shortened carbine gas system. This should lead to less wear and tear on parts. Some even go so far as to use a 9mm H3 buffer which is much heavier.

icormba
12-27-2005, 11:43 AM
I trust that has a flash hider or brake pinned/welded on to meet the 16" legal minimum...

yeah, ATF agent just knocked on my door and checked it for me about 20 minutes ago. Came out to about 16.1", standard civilian 14" modification.

Not sure why anyone would buy a 14" NFA and install it without a license?

TonyM
12-27-2005, 12:22 PM
Not sure why anyone would buy a 14" NFA and install it without a license?

As we've all witnessed, many people just don't read, or only see what they want to see.

BTW, I love my LMT 14.5" with Phantom, but I don't run wolf through it.

icormba
12-27-2005, 1:53 PM
BTW, I love my LMT 14.5" with Phantom, but I don't run wolf through it.

DOH!! that's right... 14.5"!! my bad!

glock_this
12-27-2005, 4:05 PM
Stick with the American Eagle. :) That is just my opinion. Just ordered 1000 rounds from our pals up in Oregon.

who is this company in Oregon? or is it a secret ;) as I need some ammo.

stevie
12-27-2005, 8:52 PM
Probably here: Very good place to shop for ammo

http://www.outdoormarksman.com/

Gunner1
12-28-2005, 11:30 AM
I have shot lots of wolf 223 ammo lately, Especially with certain types of guns back on the market after a five year abscence:D Although in a semi neutered form. One thing i have noticed when shooting some of the wolf 62gr ammo is that empty cases basically roll out of the upper and are sitting on the bench next to me when shooting. When shooting just about anything else including wolf 55 gr ammo ejection is vigorous and empty cases are tossed about six feet from the rifle. Even with the light in shoes 62gr ammo I still am going to stock up on the stuff while prices are good

Gunner

icormba
12-28-2005, 12:15 PM
p.s. I was using 55gr Wolf out of my 1-7twist 14.5"... still worked fine even though people say I should be using 62gr only out of that upper. I didn't even know wolf was making 62gr? :confused:

bwiese
12-28-2005, 2:03 PM
p.s. I was using 55gr Wolf out of my 1-7twist 14.5"... still worked fine even though people say I should be using 62gr only out of that upper. I didn't even know wolf was making 62gr? :confused:


Hmmm, I could be wrong - maybe it's JSC Barnaul or TCW. Whatever it is, it's Russkie steel-case 62gr ammo. I believe the bullets are 62gr but do not have any kind of special 'penetrator' core.

icormba
12-28-2005, 2:26 PM
Hmmm, I could be wrong - maybe it's JSC Barnaul or TCW. Whatever it is, it's Russkie steel-case 62gr ammo. I believe the bullets are 62gr but do not have any kind of special 'penetrator' core.

oh... I didn't mean to say it wasn't, Wolf could be in 62gr, I just didn't know.

by the way... a lot of Wolf is made at the Tula (TCW) plant, so If TCW makes it... Wolf might have it too.



edit: ok, yeah they have it!
http://www.wolfammo.com/1_rifle.htm



and for those who need the visual, like me ... haha!
http://ammoman.com/images/WOLF/223FMJ62GR.jpg