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View Full Version : Questions for when Roberti Roos and SB23 are overturned


Steyr_223
01-12-2010, 3:20 PM
When Roberti Roos and SB23 are overturned, can...

1) We use a formerly RAW firearm as a trunk gun?
2) Any of the RAW restrictions still be enforced at the city, county level?
3) Those prosecuted for illegal AWs get their sentences cleared?
4) We covert OLL firearms to any federally legal configuration we want?
5) We convert our 10/30 and 10/30 mags back into highcaps?

I can only dream for now..

Thanks

bwiese
01-12-2010, 3:58 PM
When Roberti Roos and SB23 are overturned, can...
1) We use a formerly RAW firearm as a trunk gun?
2) Any of the RAW restrictions still be enforced at the city, county level?
3) Those prosecuted for illegal AWs get their sentences cleared?
4) We covert OLL firearms to any federally legal configuration we want?
5) We convert our 10/30 and 10/30 mags back into highcaps?


Roberti-Roos and SB23 are separate categories and due to severability attacking one category doesn't bring down the other. I believe each will be attacked separately; 'fixing'
one side does not necessarily fix the other side.

I'd bet other structural problems with AW law are likely not to be attacked given these fatter post-Heller targets -- but if they were, there's a chance both could go down together since the two classes of gun require certain behaviors, treatments, and there are issues of clarity, timing, promulgation/education issues, etc.

If a particular category of AW law were overturned (R-R and/or SB23) the categories of firearms encompassed by the overturned law would no longer be AWs, and just plain ol' guns - as long as they do not conflict with other laws still in force. If Roberti-Roos fell alone (or first) without SB23 falling (yet), you could get a 'named' receiver ("Colt AR15", "Bushmaster XM15", "FN FAL", , etc.) gun but it would still have to have proper features configuration.

(1) As such, they'd be able to be trunk guns just like an 870, Winchester lever gun or a Mini14 you get at Big5 today.

(2) City/county AW laws that still may be on the books are either generally acknowledged not in force or are preempted by state law or are/will be attacked. Just because a law is out of force due to court decision or preemption at higher level does not mean it magically falls off the books without subsequent cleanup lawmaking - a perfect example is PC 12276(e) and (f) "copies and duplicates" language still on the books even 9 years after Harrott v. County of Kings. [These laws can and are being attacked already under preemption after our Prop H win: a related example is the attack on Richmond's hicap mag ban. We don't really need Heller, incorporation, etc. for this.]

(3) Let's assume we are not talking about legal OLLs. Folks prosecuted for AWs and found guilty violated the law as it stood at the time. If the charges allowed such, and they had decent lawyering, there's a chance a 17(b) reduction for AW possession to misdemeanor could occur. [For non-17(b)- remediable situations - pardon etc. - such work might be aided by the fact the law was no longer in force.] AW charges "in process" thru the legal system when the applicable law is killed may well be mooted (not guaranteed).

(4) If a particular category of AW "went away" you would be able to convert your OLL into that now-vanished category without worry. That is, if SB23 went away, you could drop the mag on your Stag-15 evil-featured build, or put a pistol grip on your MMG rifle. But again, if SB23 was still valid and Roberti-Roos went away first, you could have a 'listed' gun but would still have to worry about features. Of course Fed law issues would still apply - 922(r) domestic parts count, etc.

(5) Calif. AW laws and Calif. hicap mag laws are mostly separate and independent. Fixing SB23 and/or Roberti-Roos will not fix separate hicap mag law. That's a separate battle, and there are new paths around the restrictions being explored.

The small only overlap is in the 2nd definition of generic AW, "semauto centerfire rifle with fixed magazine holding over 10 rounds". If SB23 goes away you could use a hicap mag in fixed-mag setup (but WHY?) This really doesn't ban the magazine, it bans the installed relationship.

rp55
01-12-2010, 4:02 PM
I'm kinda hoping it will be like Hawaii and fireworks way back in the day. I think 1980 or thereabouts. They had a fairly permissive fireworks law and Honolulu was in the midst of becoming an extension of Marin County and they got a real restrictive law passed, as I recall kind of like CA is now. Somehow some folks got the State Supreme Court to overturn the new law and since they had repealed the old law there was a short window of opportunity when there was no law at all and anything went. That New Years was amazing. Honolulu looked like Hue in 1968.

CAL.BAR
01-12-2010, 4:07 PM
This question not only puts the cart before the horse - it puts the invention of the wheel before the cart!

gose
01-12-2010, 4:14 PM
IF Roberti Roos and SB23 are overturned, you're likely to be too old to be able to hold a gun at that time ;)

B Strong
01-12-2010, 4:15 PM
here's a question for Bill W:

Can you see a scenario where the registration process alone stands with R-R, and SB 23 goes away?

I believe that the gun grabbers would still plotz (remember when they sued Dan Lungren to stop late registrations?) if the registration process was the only vestige of R-R standing.

Gun grabbers love gun registration, but they love it most when nobody is allowed to register...

Steyr_223
01-12-2010, 4:46 PM
IF Roberti Roos and SB23 are overturned, you're likely to be too old to be able to hold a gun at that time ;)


http://www.danavenell.com/ODDBALLSAYSsilkscreen.jpg

Thanks Bill!

hoffmang
01-12-2010, 7:20 PM
One minor nit to Bill's explanation. When RR and SB-23 die, it will invalidate most any local AW law based upon the reasoning of the court in such a decision.

-Gene

yellowfin
01-12-2010, 9:38 PM
Is it somewhat right to think that the court challenge to the roster will be useful for challenging features bans, possibly knocking out both at the same time? Reason being we've got a features ban in NY too and I'm curious to see how that might do.

hoffmang
01-12-2010, 9:43 PM
Is it somewhat right to think that the court challenge to the roster will be useful for challenging features bans, possibly knocking out both at the same time? Reason being we've got a features ban in NY too and I'm curious to see how that might do.

The roster challenge does have a lot to add to an AW case.

-Gene

bwiese
01-13-2010, 2:12 AM
One minor nit to Bill's explanation. When RR and SB-23 die, it will invalidate most any local AW law based upon the reasoning of the court in such a decision.

-Gene

Sorry I didn't make that clear - I was kinda trying to say that.