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View Full Version : CA FAL: Wait or buy now?


DrjonesUSA
12-21-2005, 1:20 PM
I've decided that I want a FAL.

Should I buy either the entire rifle or reciever/parts now, or can I wait a while?

Is there any chance these things will be banned in the near future?

How do you think the import ban is going to affect reciever/parts availability?


Thanks

DrjonesUSA
12-21-2005, 1:29 PM
Prices are just going to go up. Since the ATF announced a ban on the importation of receivers and barrels last summer, prices have gone up and up and up.


Does that ban affect only IMBELs?

Who else makes FALs or FAL parts other than Imbel, DSA & FN?

DrjonesUSA
12-21-2005, 1:40 PM
It affects the importation of foreign made barrels and receivers that aren't considered sporting arms into the United States. That includes parts kits.


Crap... :mad: :mad: :mad:


Are there any US companies other than DSA who manufacture FAL parts/recievers?

Mike Searson
12-21-2005, 1:55 PM
Crap... :mad: :mad: :mad:


Are there any US companies other than DSA who manufacture FAL parts/recievers?

Coonan Arms makes them from time to time.

If you can get a good price on an Imbel, now...go ahead and buy 2.

My only regret is I didn't buy 3.

I imagine you'll see parts kits in the future minus the barrel.

DrjonesUSA
12-21-2005, 1:57 PM
Coonan Arms makes them from time to time.

If you can get a good price on an Imbel, now...go ahead and buy 2.

My only regret is I didn't buy 3.

I imagine you'll see parts kits in the future minus the barrel.


How easy is it to remove/replace the handguards on a FAL?

Mike Searson
12-21-2005, 2:00 PM
How easy is it to remove/replace the handguards on a FAL?
Extremely simplistic.

Everything on the FAL, except the bbl installation is so easy that even a democrat could do it.

I built the 2 I have now...and over the course of my life I've built between 20-30 for other people.

It's not as easy as building an AR, but in some ways the challenges make the process more rewarding.

rssslvr
12-21-2005, 2:48 PM
i would buy a parts kit now before they go up any more.you can always get a US made receiver and it counts as a compliance part

6172crew
12-21-2005, 3:28 PM
You can bu a parts kit and it will always be worth more later. there is a fact page on a.r.s that tell the diff about parts kits. I bought 2 VG/EX STG parts kits for less than $300 a few months back, they have matching #'s.

Even the beatup Sa kits had great bores on them, they just needed to be painted or reparked, but for less than 200 you cant go wrong.

rssslvr
12-21-2005, 3:40 PM
here's an bi pod,lower,imbel receiver and what appears to be a izzy barrel(could just be izzy handguards) on gun broker
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41699642

Draven
12-28-2005, 2:11 AM
Quick note-


Entreprise Arms, in Irwindale, makes FAL recievers. They will DROS it there, and if you want to pay for it, they will do the build-up from your kit while your 10 days are running.

Nifty, huh?

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 1:26 PM
Quick note-


Entreprise Arms, in Irwindale, makes FAL recievers. They will DROS it there, and if you want to pay for it, they will do the build-up from your kit while your 10 days are running.

Nifty, huh?


I thought Entreprise wasn't too high quality...

bwiese
12-28-2005, 2:08 PM
I thought Entreprise wasn't too high quality...


You may want to take what you can get. Entreprises apparently often take more smithing to alleviate out-of-spec conditions. Gunplumber won't work on them, other FAL smiths might.

Given the current hulaballoo about AWs in California, it would not surprise me that DOJ might be starting to pursue a PC 12276.5 superior court 'add on' proceeding for a variety of nonlisted clones of FALs, HKs, Uzis, etc. in addition to updating the AR/AK Kasler list.

Don't think this proceeding'll happen this month, but it could happen 1st half of this year.

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 2:09 PM
You may want to take what you can get. Entreprises apparently often take more smithing to alleviate out-of-spec conditions. Gunplumber won't work on them, other FAL smiths might.

Given the current hulaballoo about AWs in California, it would not surprise me that DOJ might be starting to pursue a PC 12276.5 superior court 'add on' proceeding for a variety of nonlisted clones of FALs, HKs, Uzis, etc. in addition to updating the AR/AK Kasler list.

Don't think this proceeding'll happen this month, but it could happen 1st half of this year.


I think you are right.

I'll try to get my hands on the IMBEL reciever I saw locally. :)

Draven
12-29-2005, 2:21 AM
Of course, if they do that it means we can put a normal mag release on our FALs

(another reason not to get a DSA- you CAN'T get the mag out)

eviioiive
12-29-2005, 9:29 AM
turners now has cal fals and the bushmasters.....

Draven
12-29-2005, 10:25 AM
from what manufacturer?

delloro
12-29-2005, 11:00 AM
DSA, starting at $1600, riverside store has them in stock.

Draven
12-29-2005, 11:07 AM
Ack- like i said, their configuration cannot be reverted to a normal FAL while in free states.

DrjonesUSA
12-29-2005, 11:08 AM
Ack- like i said, their configuration cannot be reverted to a normal FAL while in free states.


Why not?
:confused:

TonyM
12-29-2005, 11:14 AM
Ack- like i said, their configuration cannot be reverted to a normal FAL while in free states.

I've read that they will retrofit them if you move, for a fee.

icormba
12-29-2005, 12:53 PM
Best Option...

Buy your Kit now!!
Some places are still selling them for $200 or so.

U.S. made parts will be available for a while.

Later on down the road if you decide to buy a pre-built one... you can always sell the kit for the price you paid or for even more than you paid.

(besides what was already mentioned here)
The worse thing that could happen in the future is if Ca adopts Washington State's "parts" law.

DrjonesUSA
12-29-2005, 12:54 PM
The worse thing that could happen in the future is if Ca adopts Washington State's "parts" law.


What is WA law?

delloro
12-29-2005, 1:08 PM
who has the best deals on FAL parts kits?

bwiese
12-29-2005, 1:28 PM
Delloro -

Pay more, get more - but get a right of return if dissatisfied.

If you're building a FAL clone, you're likely having it refinished/reparked anyway so some surface dings aren't too bad. And the furniture is likely to be replaced w/US compliance parts anyway.

Barrel bores are the big thing, unless you find a new barrel (check SARCO for these). Look at bolt wear, etc.

Back in 98/99 I bought 3 FAL STG58 kits of varying quality and mixed & matched parts for my 1st build. I have enough good parts (w/separate barrel) for my other build...

xsquid
12-29-2005, 1:58 PM
who has the best deals on FAL parts kits?

Check the Marketplace and Dealer sections out on the FAL forums http://www.falfiles.com/forums/index.php plenty of folks selling kits/receivers/ rifles.

icormba
12-29-2005, 2:09 PM
who has the best deals on FAL parts kits?

ammunition store dot com
I bought 3 SA kits from them the past year... all looked horrid, but the barrels like new. 1 measured a 0 on my muzzle guage, the 2 others just under 1. All 3 chrome lined. bought 2 of the kits for $130 ea with the last one bought at the "ban" anouncement ~Sept? for $180. current price is about $200-210 for a SA kit. about $300 for an Imbel.

I got my STG kit from Gunthings dot com over the summer for my next build this weekend, but it's not a chrome lined barrel even though it looks new! (the whole kit!) Finish on this is about 90-95%. I also got an outstanding condition SA kit from them over the summer for I think $150?? They are selling Imbel kits for $250-300 now!

podobo
12-29-2005, 4:42 PM
You can remove the mag on DSA CALIFAL's. fwiw

gibbet
12-29-2005, 6:31 PM
Ammunition store kits have shooter grade barrels with light pitting. Bores look kinda rough & dark but lands for the most part are ok. Haven't seen any shiny ones in some time.

Recommend searching the boards for a private party STG kit off FALFILES or one of Gunthings Imbel kits. The bores are a lot more attractive and a rebuilt rifle will look excellent. There are some G1 kits on Gunsamerica too.

Within 1 year, retailers will be out and prices will be double or tripple.

JHC
12-29-2005, 7:48 PM
I have my eye on an Imbel right now but am wondering how legal it is to mail order a parts kit to complete it. Some of the websites I've seen the kits at wont ship kits to CA, are they just playing it safe at my expense or is the parts kit thing a pretty grey area thing?

bwiese
12-29-2005, 8:25 PM
I have my eye on an Imbel right now but am wondering how legal it is to mail order a parts kit to complete it. Some of the websites I've seen the kits at wont ship kits to CA, are they just playing it safe at my expense or is the parts kit thing a pretty grey area thing?

There is no grey area for parts kits. Just don't have them send a hicap magazine in. Order a fixed 10rd mag kit from DSA beforehand.

JHC
12-30-2005, 5:35 AM
Thanks, I just wanted to be sure.

delloro
12-30-2005, 10:54 AM
imbel receivers are foreign so you have to count the parts, I think....

bwiese
12-30-2005, 11:06 AM
imbel receivers are foreign so you have to count the parts, I think....

Yes. But even if the receivers are US made you still have to keep an eye on the foreign parts count for 922(r) compliance.

The 16 or 17 key foreign parts have the receiver as just one item with no special priority over others. So you could still have 15 or 16 other imported parts and the gun would be violating the "10 or less" count game.

True, having a US-mfgd receiver lets you get rid of one other compliance part, but it does not eliminate "10 or less" key domestic vs foreign parts issues.

You will find, for example, that DSA-built base-model STG58 rifles still have some key US parts on them - 6 if bare muzzle, 7 if a muzzle device is used.

Draven
12-30-2005, 11:07 AM
I got a G1 kit from an auction on FALfiles for $280. Most of the park is intact and the bore is in great condition. I paid that much for it because when I build it up (March) I won't have to get it reparked.

Between when I started looking for a FAL kit and now, prices have gone up $50. The current flood of Imbel kits- which were finally released to the importer by the BATF after accusations they were improperly cut, accusations that were found to be incorrect- is going to run low eventually, and then expect the prices to skyrocket.

Draven
12-30-2005, 11:11 AM
Yes. But even if the receivers are US made you still have to keep an eye on the foreign parts count for 922(r) compliance.

The 16 or 17 key foreign parts have the receiver as just one item with no special priority over others. So you could still have 15 or 16 other imported parts and the gun would be violating the "10 or less" count game.

True, having a US-mfgd receiver lets you get rid of one other compliance part, but it does not eliminate "10 or less" key domestic vs foreign parts issues.

You will find, for example, that DSA-built base-model STG58 rifles still have some key US parts on them - 6 if bare muzzle, 7 if a muzzle device is used.

Yes, but the domestic parts are pretty well available, and relatively inexpensive. $150 gets you a set of US compliance parts- a hammer, trigger and sear set ($50), and a buttstock, pistol grip and handguard ($100). If you're using an Imbel reciever, then get something like a US muzzle device or a US made gas piston (wither one is about $30) and you have your compliance parts.

Another common compliance part for KaliFALs is the magazine plate, spring and follower. AFAIK, the DSA 10 round mags are a cut down 2 round foreign-made mag with those three parts of it being US-made.

Rascal
12-30-2005, 9:57 PM
Another common compliance part for KaliFALs is the magazine plate, spring and follower. AFAIK, the DSA 10 round mags are a cut down 2 round foreign-made mag with those three parts of it being US-made.

The spring is NOT considered a compliance part, only the mag body, follower and base plate, so you could change the follower and base plate and have 2 compliance parts.

icormba
12-31-2005, 11:50 AM
Here are my costs from my build last summer...

Izzy
SA kit $150.00
imbel $250.00 (DROS+FFL fee included)

u.s. parts $96
2 - Mag follower/base plate $8
1 - US grip $14
3 - Hammer/sear/trigger $64 (DSA)
1 - US Muzzle attachment $20

labor $0.00

other parts $99.00
(Isreali stock set)

total $605.00

http://m1garand.net/M1Pics/Chris/FAL/Image3.jpg

http://m1garand.net/M1Pics/Chris/FAL/FAL_CA.jpg
disclaimer... I already had about 10 20rd mags from the late 90's. I don't think I'd try to bring in a modified ex-20rounder into the State now the way I did mine.

next build...
STG 58
STG kit $269.00
DSA $365.00 (DROS+FFL fee included)

u.s. parts $76.00
2 - Mag follower/base plate $8
1 - US grip $4
3 - Hammer/sear/trigger $64 (DSA)
- no muzzle attachement

labor $0.00

other parts $15.00
(stripper clip scope mount)

total $725.00

Draven
12-31-2005, 5:55 PM
Did you do the build yourself?

gibbet
12-31-2005, 8:13 PM
STG parts kits in stock!
The cream of the FAL kits.
Looks like matchin numbers kits.
Steyr barrels. These are 1 moa rifles.
Descent price. I paid $300 when their were plenty, this isn't overpriced.
These are the ones to get before the well dries up.

http://www.fseusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=103&products_id=342


Good luck!

Draven
12-31-2005, 8:26 PM
Same STG58 parts kits everyone else has, same price.

If you need a less expensive kit, there are a few thousand Imbel FAL kits around right now, they are about $80 cheaper, but expect them to run out fast.

gibbet
12-31-2005, 10:48 PM
"Same STG58 parts kits everyone else has, same price."

Can you list where to find them (besides florida gunscamworks and auction sites).

I have had no such luck.

Thanks

JHC
12-31-2005, 11:02 PM
Gibbet, What's the problem with Florida Gun Works? I've been thinking of ordering from them but if you've got some info that would change my mind I would appreciate knowing what that is.

JS-M1A
12-31-2005, 11:12 PM
STG parts kits in stock!
The cream of the FAL kits.
Looks like matchin numbers kits.
Steyr barrels. These are 1 moa rifles.
Descent price. I paid $300 when their were plenty, this isn't overpriced.
These are the ones to get before the well dries up.
http://www.fseusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=103&products_id=342
Good luck!
Ouch they are that high now :eek:
I bought mine for $99.Matching numbers,
Steyr barrel with bright bore.

gibbet
12-31-2005, 11:20 PM
Florida Gun Works likes to take your money, and you negotiate for product. Many items are not in stock, you get the item after they find it. If they find your item for more $$$, you pay. Their grading system isn't accurate either. Items listed as Good are often poor. Good luck if something is missing in your kit.

Check Falfiles and Sturm for some real sweet feedback.

I should point out I have never done business with them, I was too freaked by the people who got burned.

You may get lucky.

Draven
12-31-2005, 11:32 PM
"Same STG58 parts kits everyone else has, same price."

Can you list where to find them (besides florida gunscamworks and auction sites).

I have had no such luck.

Thanks

Here. (http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=STG58K2&storeid=1&image=stg58sets.gif&CFID=2620575&CFTOKEN=97973300)

Entreprise has all of the parts, but they use their complete kits to build rifles. Several other places do as well.

gibbet
12-31-2005, 11:51 PM
"Entreprise has all of the parts, but they use their complete kits to build rifles. Several other places do as well."

I was looking at matching #s STG58 kits. Barrel, Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Lower receiver need to be matching serial numbered.

DSA link was mismatched kits.

Do you have a source for matching STG kits like FSE?
Enquiring minds want to know.

Draven
01-01-2006, 12:13 AM
I 'm not sure I would want their 'matching' kits. He's charging $350 for kits that haven't even been graded- you could end up with a 'matching numbers' STG58 kit that is in 'Good' condition, when you could have paid the same or less for an Imbel kit in 'Excellent'. Matching numbers isn't as important as condition, unless you're willing to spend $300 for a replacement barrel for your build- in which case, you've defeated the purpose of buying a kit with matching numbers.

No, the Austrians didn't fight any major wars with their STGs- but many of them were assigned to training units and fired alot more rounds than others. Some of the Imbel kits that are coming in were from rifles that were never used.

$%$#% NFA... #$@#$@#$ 922r... if it wasn't for these, we'd be able to get the entire original rifle for $200.

gibbet
01-01-2006, 3:50 AM
"Same STG58 parts kits everyone else has, same price."

Doesn't sound like "everyone" even has them after all. When the "everyone else" matching #s STG kits from a reputable vendor are found, please post them. I am interested, I really do need some low number kits.

"He's charging $350 for kits that haven't even been graded- you could end up with a 'matching numbers' STG58 kit that is in 'Good' condition, when you could have paid the same or less for an Imbel kit in 'Excellent'."

Read it again - "Condition is very good, with clean, shiny bores. The kit pictured is a typical sample". On the page description, goto the picture window on the top upper right, click it, and the image will expand. You can see a "typical kit". Looks pretty nice to me. He has backed away from Excellent and now all kits are graded as VG.

Don't believe FSE? Look at the kit Buyer review: Remember, they are original finish kit builds. Look at how a DSA receiver matches perfectly.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=158112

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=157516

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157560

"I 'm not sure I would want their 'matching' kits."

Here are other people's opinions, not mine:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=158542

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=157671

http://www.fseusa.com/product_reviews.php?cPath=103&products_id=342

Each to his own brother.

"Matching numbers isn't as important as condition, unless you're willing to spend $300 for a replacement barrel for your build- in which case, you've defeated the purpose of buying a kit with matching numbers."

I think what you meant was "Matching numbers isn't as important as barrel condition". True, but the matching #s FSE kit does NOT have bad barrels in need of replacement. Point is kinda moot.

"No, the Austrians didn't fight any major wars with their STGs- but many of them were assigned to training units and fired alot more rounds than others."

Dude, FALs have never been in ANY major wars. Thats the paradox of FAL/L1A1s - being the most widely used rifle in the free-world yet no major wars. And Steyr STG58 bores are the best in the world. Not chome lined though, but super accurate. And no the Austrians did NOT wear out the bores. Steyr uses better steel than the Brazilians. Their condition is almost always better than Imbels.

"Some of the Imbel kits that are coming in were from rifles that were never used."

Not quite. This batch of Imbel rifles were exported by Imbel Brazil to Chile for their border war with Peru before being imported to the U.S. These Imbels were issued to troops and are NOT unused / unissued. Expect them to be carried a lot, shot little, some cleaned sparingly. While some have very little use, others have a lot.

Kit background: These Imbel kits were seized by ATF and returned recently to the importers who were originally charged with illegal importation of an MG. ATF lost the case and returned them after holding them for over 1 year. They are now re-hitting the market - they have been in ATF storage for all this time. You can see them in crates:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=152014

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=152202

Some sellers have refinshed the most worn Imbels because thats how you turn a buck. Nothing wrong with that but you gotta be careful. Just because they advertise the kit as refinished doesn't mean it was done right. A good example is InterOrdinance. I went through their FAL bin at a gunshow and their refinished kits sucked. IO took an entire barrel or lower assembly, and put it into the park tank. No cleaning or degreasing, no parts disassembly. The entire chunk was dunked. It was humorous to look at the normal shinney demil cuts parked.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

For what its worth - My original posting pointed out the last of the matching STG kits on the market for my Kali brothers. A last chance for U guys on one of the premier FAL kits ever.

Don't believe? Pop a beer, goto Falfiles, do a search on STG58 and sit back and enjoy the read. Better yet, post "excellent condition Imbel kit is better than FSE's STG58 kit" on the Falfiles and watch the fur fly. It would be like saying the N-word in the First AME church!

Happy new year!

C.G.
01-01-2006, 5:01 AM
I am not sure where Draven is getting his information; from my own experience, however:
Bought one graded excellent bore Imbel kit from Gunthings for $300 - looked good and the bore is excellent, numbers match, but the rifle has seen action and is a little beat up.
At the same time bought an FSE STG kit for $350 - when I got it I couldn't believe my eyes, beside matching numbers I really don't think it was ever fired, maybe cycled a few times.
I ordered one more kit - guess which one.:rolleyes: The second STG kit also in perfectly new condition, was fired a few times, but not that many. This one did have scratches on the buttstock (which will get replaced anyway).
I am not sorry I bought the Imbel, but the FSE STG was a much better buy in my mind.

icormba
01-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Did you do the build yourself?

Yes, very FUN & rewarding experience!

OptionX3
01-02-2006, 1:31 AM
After Gibbets post, I'm pretty much sold on FSE kit. Before I pull the trigger, is there any other dealers I should be looking at? Or pretty much all the good deals are covered in previous posts?

One more thing, where and how much should I expect to pay for the receivers?

-TIA

rssslvr
01-02-2006, 8:21 AM
dealer price on dsa's are $325($400 something retail)enterprise's are a bit cheaper and imbel's are around $300.expect to pay around $300-$400 something

rssslvr
01-02-2006, 8:47 AM
if you are trying to do your build as cheap as possible i would get an enterprise.but personally i would try and get an imbel as they are not going to be imported any more.however buying a US made receiver will count as a compliance part.dsa's are supposed to be the best US made one but can be a little spendy.