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View Full Version : Black powder pistol = No 10 day cooling off period?


chad68
01-12-2010, 6:27 AM
Have always thought it would be fun to have a functional reproduction black powder pistol. Was never sure if there is/was a cooling off period in CA for them or not? Found this but still not clear......... I don't know if it falls under the 4th catagory or not?


The waiting period and dealer application do not apply to:


Transfers to police officers

Other gun dealers.

Manufacturers or importers.

Antique firearms, and rifles and shotguns which are classified as curios or relics by the federal government.

Infrequent gifts or transfers to one's "immediate family," an infrequent temporary loan not to exceed 30 days to a person who is not prohibited from possessing a firearm.

A transfer of a rifle or shotgun at auctions by nonprofit or public benefit corporations.

AJAX22
01-12-2010, 6:43 AM
black powder guns are not 'firearms' under state or federal law

you can buy them mail order shipped to your door...

heck you can even buy the cartridge conversion cylinders shipped to your door.

go nuts.

no wait, no nothing.

thefurball
01-12-2010, 7:23 AM
black powder guns are not 'firearms' under state or federal law

you can buy them mail order shipped to your door...

heck you can even buy the cartridge conversion cylinders shipped to your door.

go nuts.

no wait, no nothing.

What he said.

The nice UPS man will deliver it to your front door if you like. No paperwork, no wait.

dfletcher
01-12-2010, 7:38 AM
black powder guns are not 'firearms' under state or federal law

you can buy them mail order shipped to your door...

heck you can even buy the cartridge conversion cylinders shipped to your door.


Assuming CTD or Midway or Sportsmans or whoever sells the BP gun doesn't do their own "No Sale to CA" thing.

RockinCali
01-12-2010, 2:17 PM
Is it illegal to cut down a BP shotgun? Below the 18" limit?

Argonaut
01-12-2010, 2:24 PM
Is it illegal to cut down a BP shotgun? Below the 18" limit?

...........It is not a firearm......................

Argonaut
01-12-2010, 2:27 PM
Get a Ruger Old Army, It is the same quality as any other Ruger and as powerful as anything but a 44 mag...............Conversion cylinders are also available

RockinCali
01-12-2010, 2:36 PM
...........It is not a firearm......................

thx, i just wanted to double check

Swift Justice
01-12-2010, 3:08 PM
Wow, this is intriguing. Sorry to go slightly OT but could someone enlighten me on the whole cylinder conversion thing? I've shot black powder a few times and it was a blast (nyuck nyuck). I can't see me doing it on a regular basis, although I would like to have a cartridge revolver of one of the old old school pistols.

AJAX22
01-12-2010, 3:34 PM
they make cylinders that drop in to black powder firearms and convert them to cartridge guns.

Remington 1858 and ruger old army are the two best guns for conversion (I prefer the 1858)

you can get .38 spl conversions for the .36 cal guns, and .45 acp/.45 LC for the .44's

bigthaiboy
01-13-2010, 2:11 AM
Since I own a couple of black powder rifles, I've been curious to try a black powder pistol for a while, so I recently ordered this pistol from Cabelas : http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp;jsessionid=H21FDN5YF1EXBLAQBBJSCO3MCAEFII WE?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20817&id=0006186210086a&navCount=2&podId=0006186&parentId=cat20817&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true

Cabelas had a $20 off coupon so I got pistol for under $115 shipped to my door. Also came with a very nice wood velvet-lined presentation box, for no extra charge. It's a very nice quality pistol for the price.

Sinixstar
01-13-2010, 2:21 AM
On a funny side note - this is exactly how a number of people get around NYC's outright gun ban. Guns are illegal, but black powder pistols are not. Read an article awhile back about the number of people who keep black powder pistols loaded in their house since they can't have real guns.

grymster
01-13-2010, 9:01 AM
I have an 1858 Remington and an 1849 Colt Pocket revolver, both with conversion cylinders. I like shooting BP out of them, but reloading and juggling all the components sometimes wears on me, so the conversion cylinders let me feel like I'm living in the 19th century, without all the hassle. :) I also have an 1863 Pocket Remington, but I'm still waiting for a conversion cylinder to become available for it...... or I'll make the one I've designed..... well, someday.

Meanwhile, I think I like these guns more than the modern ones I own.

vega
01-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Has anyone use conversion cylinder on brass frame? I got an 1851 Navy 44 from Midway when it was only selling for $85. Should have gotten the 1858 as well, it was only $95.00 then.

AJAX22
01-13-2010, 12:50 PM
Not a good idea converting brass frame guns... it will work, but the metal is prone to eventual failure.

mala in se
01-13-2010, 1:02 PM
Since I own a couple of black powder rifles, I've been curious to try a black powder pistol for a while, so I recently ordered this pistol from Cabelas : http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp;jsessionid=H21FDN5YF1EXBLAQBBJSCO3MCAEFII WE?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712-cat20817&id=0006186210086a&navCount=2&podId=0006186&parentId=cat20817&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20817&hasJS=true

Cabelas had a $20 off coupon so I got pistol for under $115 shipped to my door. Also came with a very nice wood velvet-lined presentation box, for no extra charge. It's a very nice quality pistol for the price.

this looks fun, and I will pick one up as i always wanted to try black powder. however, I want to try to keep this below $200 for everything. what else would i need other than powder and bullets? what kind of bullets should i be looking for.

vega
01-13-2010, 1:19 PM
You need wads and primers. Make sure you buy the right size primer.

mala in se
01-13-2010, 2:07 PM
ok, so it looks like i'm goin' to pick up a 1851 navy in .44 as well. i talked the guy at cabela's and he advised .451 roundball, #10 caps, and Pyrodex pellets. what is your experience between pellets and powder? i think i want to try the powder and pellets are about 20 cents a shot. is there anything else you think i may need to pick up?

vega
01-13-2010, 2:10 PM
Powder charger and powder holder comes to mind.

grymster
01-13-2010, 2:17 PM
The .451 balls should do the trick, but the proof is if they'll shave a ring of lead when pressed home. Try and use the smallest ball that will shave. Percussion cap size can very also. Mine all use #11s, but I don't have a '51. Brass frame and conversion cylinder not a good idea and I think the cylinder manufacturers (R&D [now Howell Old West] and Kirst) recommend against it.

Dutch Schultz
01-13-2010, 2:21 PM
Whoa, so what happens when you put a conversion cylinder in one to fire modern ammunition? Does it then become a firearm under law? Would paperwork need to be done for it?

tatso7
01-13-2010, 2:26 PM
ok, so it looks like i'm goin' to pick up a 1851 navy in .44 as well. i talked the guy at cabela's and he advised .451 roundball and #10 caps, is there anything else you think i may need to pick up?

I've been shooting BP pistols for quit a while. If you opted for the navy in .44 dont settle for the brass frame. Go for the steel frame. Other than .451 ball and #10 caps (#11 dont fit properly), you may need a nipple wrench, capper, powder flask, .44 pre lubricated wads (over powder wads) or crisco (too messy for me ) powder measure and a good cleaning kit. I used Pyrodex P ( in powder and pellet form ) in place of real BP. They dont make conversion cylinder for 1851 but some people say that conversion cylinder for 1860 will fit in 1851 navy rev. Lastly, there's no better cleaner than warm water and detergent. For more BP info check thefiringline.com ( BP subforum ), the high road, muzzleloader.com.

tatso7
01-13-2010, 2:36 PM
Here's my Remmy (5 1/2 inch barrel) with conversion cylinder. This thing shoot like a dream with Black Hills .45 LC 250 grains.

vega
01-13-2010, 2:45 PM
Mine uses #11 caps. Made by Pietta for CVA. I have #10 caps but won't fit.

vega
01-13-2010, 2:47 PM
What if you use Black powder instead of smokeless powder for the conversion cylinder?

tatso7
01-13-2010, 3:18 PM
What if you use Black powder instead of smokeless powder for the conversion cylinder?

I dont see why not ? Generally BP has lower pressure compared to smokeless. Ten X Ammunitions sells 45 LC in Black Powder. Conversion cylinders can only be use with Cowboy Loads only ( around 750 fps ,45LC 250 grains ). Lead bullets only as it is softer compared to jacketed ones. Unless you want to blow up your pistol ( and your arm ) Bufallo Bore, Ruger only loads is a BIG NO NO.

bohoki
01-13-2010, 6:21 PM
Whoa, so what happens when you put a conversion cylinder in one to fire modern ammunition? Does it then become a firearm under law? Would paperwork need to be done for it?

technically when assembled you have manufactured a firearm thankfully a person is allowed to build their own as long as its for your personal use

as for brass if you are a handloader you can make weaker cartridges but still should be avoided

bigthaiboy
01-13-2010, 6:26 PM
this looks fun, and I will pick one up as i always wanted to try black powder. however, I want to try to keep this below $200 for everything. what else would i need other than powder and bullets? what kind of bullets should i be looking for.

If you decide to go with the Pyrodex powder, get the green label marked Pyrodex P, not the orange label marked RS (Rifle/ Shotgun). I assume you have watched the video on Cabelas telling you how to load a BP pistol, which tells you all the stuff you need to get to get started : http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/product_features/photos/pages/pf_bploading_int.html?cm_vid=pod

chad68
01-14-2010, 6:24 AM
technically when assembled you have manufactured a firearm thankfully a person is allowed to build their own as long as its for your personal use

as for brass if you are a handloader you can make weaker cartridges but still should be avoided

Whoa wait a second. We can build our own guns? So could I make my own Uzi from the ground up?

Only firearm i could see myself building from the ground up would be some kind of basic smooth bore shotgun out of PVC pipe ala glock style. Ha. Or a plastic derringer type gun like John Malkovich made in the Clint eastwood movie "In the line of fire".

seriously would like to know more about the whole building our own guns thing. Like i'm going to run out and buy a lathe.

Like the other guy, the PB pistols I was looking at are sold through Cabelas, as well.

AJAX22
01-14-2010, 6:47 AM
Yes its legal to make your own guns...

non metalic firearms have federal restrictions IIRC.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/S5001360.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/S5001362.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0560.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0552.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0555.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/DCP_0272.jpg



Whoa wait a second. We can build our own guns? So could I make my own Uzi from the ground up?

Only firearm i could see myself building from the ground up would be some kind of basic smooth bore shotgun out of PVC pipe ala glock style. Ha. Or a plastic derringer type gun like John Malkovich made in the Clint eastwood movie "In the line of fire".

seriously would like to know more about the whole building our own guns thing. Like i'm going to run out and buy a lathe.

Like the other guy, the PB pistols I was looking at are sold through Cabelas, as well.

ancora
01-14-2010, 7:43 AM
In this state my .58 cal black powder rifle is considered an "assault weapon" because it has a bayonet stud, thanks to the gun-grabbers in Sacramento.

Digital_Boy
01-14-2010, 9:37 AM
In this state my .58 cal black powder rifle is considered an "assault weapon" because it has a bayonet stud, thanks to the gun-grabbers in Sacramento.

I'd need to see specific PC on that. The CA AWB does NOT mention a bayonet mount as a feature, and as has been stated already, blackpowder weapons are not considered firearms.

Unless you've got a cop/sheriff's deputy making stuff up on the spot.

EOD Guy
01-15-2010, 5:40 AM
...........It is not a firearm......................


As long as it does not use fixed ammunition.

Also, BATF does consider antiques to be firearms. They are just not regulated under the NFA or GCA.

Be carefull to check the definitions under both acts. They are not the same, especially where fixed ammunition is concerned.

Steve-O
01-15-2010, 7:47 AM
Ajax, it always warms the heart to see your creations. Thank you.

watchmen
01-16-2010, 9:01 PM
Since blackpowder weapons are not considered firearms, would it be legal for someone under the age of 21 to buy a cap and ball revolver?
I am 20 right now, and I have been toying with the idea of a cap and ball revolver. If it would be legal, I think it would be fun to get one before I turn 21.

AJAX22
01-17-2010, 4:49 AM
Since blackpowder weapons are not considered firearms, would it be legal for someone under the age of 21 to buy a cap and ball revolver?
I am 20 right now, and I have been toying with the idea of a cap and ball revolver. If it would be legal, I think it would be fun to get one before I turn 21.

Yes,

I had one when I was 18....

You can even get a cartridge conversion for it and make it a 38 (in the case of the .36) or a .45LC or .45ACP (in the case of the 44)

You just can't buy fixed cartridge ammo for it yet ;) but your parents can.

Mssr. Eleganté
01-17-2010, 12:03 PM
What if you use Black powder instead of smokeless powder for the conversion cylinder?

This question brings up the importance of not calling this the "black powder" exemption. A newly made firearm doesn't become an "antique" simply because it is a black powder firearm. The law says a newly made firearm must use a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system in order to be considered an antique. It just so happens that all of those types of ignition systems are traditionally used with black powder.

But if you install an R&D conversion cylinder on a percussion frame you have manufactured a firearm, even if you only use black powder in the conversion.