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ap3572001
01-11-2010, 6:10 PM
How many of You handguns can You sell ( PPT) a year? Is it a calendar year? Or in 12 months?

badicedog
01-11-2010, 6:17 PM
If my memory serves me right, max of 5 handguns per year. Anymore, will put you on BATFE's radar. I believe it's per calendar year.

seanbo
01-11-2010, 7:07 PM
Unless it's a collection you need to liquidate.

Hunter
01-11-2010, 7:10 PM
How many of You handguns can You sell ( PPT) a year? Is it a calendar year? Or in 12 months?

For handguns you are limited to less than 6 selling transactions per year. Note that a transaction can be any number of handguns, but only 5 or less transactions per year in order to not raise flags. Here is the PC wording...

(A) For handguns, less than six transactions per calendar year.
For this purpose, "transaction" means a single sale, lease, or
transfer of any number of handguns.
(B) For firearms other than handguns, occasional and without
regularity.

leelaw
01-11-2010, 7:15 PM
You can sell an unlimited number of handguns per year, but it must be done in less than six transactions.

Any more and it is dealing without a license.

joefrank64k
01-11-2010, 7:18 PM
You're allowed up to five handgun "transactions" a year. During each "transaction", you're allowed to transfer an unlimited number of handguns.

If you do more than five "transactions" a year, you're supposed to be an FFL in California.

ap3572001
01-11-2010, 9:28 PM
Is it from Jan 1st to dec 31 st? Or per 12 months?

Hunter
01-11-2010, 9:32 PM
Is it from Jan 1st to dec 31 st? Or per 12 months?

See my quote above, it is a "calendar year", so Jan 1 to Dec 31

ap3572001
01-11-2010, 10:13 PM
Thank You !

Corbin Dallas
01-12-2010, 7:15 AM
You're allowed up to five handgun "transactions" a year. During each "transaction", you're allowed to transfer an unlimited number of handguns.

If you do more than five "transactions" a year, you're supposed to be an FFL in California.

I did 10 transactions last year and nobody has knocked at my door.

Seriously, what are you supposed to do when you buy a firearm and don't like it? Sorry Mr. Citizen, you can't sell that because you've already sold 5 others... You'll just have to keep it.

Hi Mr. Gun buyer, your DROS has been denied for exceeding the number of transactions per year according to BAFTE...

I can see buying and selling over and over, but FIVE transactions?

Phhhllleaaase.......

CHS
01-12-2010, 9:07 AM
You can sell an unlimited number of handguns per year, but it must be done in less than six transactions.

Any more and it is dealing without a license.

Only for "regular" sales.

If you fall onto hard times and must liquidate large parts of your collection for financial reasons in more than 6 or even 10 or even 20 transactions, that is not dealing without a license.

If you're doing it constantly, year after year, then it's dealing without a license and you'll maybe have issues.

ap3572001
01-12-2010, 9:50 AM
Please define - DEALING W/O a license?

CHS
01-12-2010, 12:04 PM
Please define - DEALING W/O a license?

Buying and selling guns for profit and business.

sv_1
01-12-2010, 7:05 PM
What if they are sold at a loss?

CHS
01-12-2010, 7:10 PM
What if they are sold at a loss?

Business is business, whether or not something is sold at a profit.

G17GUY
01-12-2010, 7:40 PM
Buying and selling guns for profit and business.

But you are using an FFL?

CHS
01-12-2010, 7:48 PM
But you are using an FFL?

Wow.. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

When you do a PPT, you are still SELLING a gun, the FFL is just the transfer agent.

You can't REGULARLY SELL more than 6 guns in a year, or it's considered dealing without a license, whether or not you are making a profit. You are SELLING guns, and that is dealing. IT DOES NOT MATTER if you are using an FFL as a transfer agent. If YOU ARE NOT licensed as an 01, 07, or 10 FFL, then it is dealing without a license.

If you fall upon hard times and must liquidate a large number of guns in a short'ish amount of time, that does not count towards "regular sales", and would not subject you to any legal action because it's a one-time deal.

sv_1
01-12-2010, 7:50 PM
I'm just saying if I bought 7 and sold them as needed because I either hated them or needed money and sold each at a loss (thru an FFL), that it'd be a pretty big stretch to call it a business. Maybe you could call it government...

louscamaro91
01-12-2010, 7:55 PM
This is just a California enforced law. Sell them to out of state buyer(Gunbroker). When you ship a gun to another FFL out of state it get Drosed to the new buyer as a Dealer sale not a PPT like here in California. Just make sure to send in the No longer in possession form for these firearms...

CHS
01-12-2010, 7:55 PM
I'm just saying if I bought 7 and sold them as needed because I either hated them or needed money and sold each at a loss (thru an FFL), that it'd be a pretty big stretch to call it a business. Maybe you could call it government...

If you do it REGULARLY, meaning month after month, year after year, that's dealing without a license. The motives don't really matter. The law was written to make people who were motivated by business to get a license, but that doesn't mean it doesn't cover people like you describe.

Hunter
01-12-2010, 8:16 PM
Wow.. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

When you do a PPT, you are still SELLING a gun, the FFL is just the transfer agent.

You can't REGULARLY SELL more than 6 guns in a year, or it's considered dealing without a license, .....


Well not quite true there. The law says less than 6 transactions per year involving handguns....so technically I could sell thousands of handguns per calendar year as long as i do it in 5 or less transactions.

CHS
01-12-2010, 8:21 PM
Well not quite true there. The law says less than 6 transactions per year involving handguns....so technically I could sell thousands of handguns per calendar year as long as i do it in 5 or less transactions.

Read what I meant, not what I said :)

Mssr. Eleganté
01-12-2010, 9:02 PM
...If you fall upon hard times and must liquidate a large number of guns in a short'ish amount of time, that does not count towards "regular sales", and would not subject you to any legal action because it's a one-time deal.

You are talking about Federal law there. There is an exemption in Federal law for people liquidating all or part of a personal firearms collection. But I can't find any such exemption in California law. If you are not a "California licensed dealer" then California law limits you to less than six handgun "transactions" when you are selling your guns, even if you are liquidating your collection because of hard times. To get around this limit you would need some kind of court judgement against your assets, as described in CPC 12070(b).

scootergmc
01-12-2010, 10:07 PM
Either way, the next person I see (or hear of) prosecuted for this will be the first.

ap3572001
01-13-2010, 8:25 AM
Read what I meant, not what I said :)

I know several people who are in to collecting , shooting, working on guns ETC. Some of them have 50-100 guns. They constantly buy ,sell, trade guns Via Gunbroker, local stores, Local FFl's. In State and out fo State. Thats what they like to do, just like a stamp collector does it with stamps. I NEVER HEARD any problems with that ( ?????) May be I am missing something?

ke6guj
01-13-2010, 12:42 PM
I NEVER HEARD any problems with that ( ?????) May be I am missing something?what you are missing is that it may be illegal per the PC, but that they have probably never come up on anybody's radar. I'd bet that if they came up on someone's radar, even for a non-gun issue, that unlicensed selling of firearms would be scrutinized, and potentially prosecuted for.

PIRATE14
01-13-2010, 1:00 PM
I know several people who are in to collecting , shooting, working on guns ETC. Some of them have 50-100 guns. They constantly buy ,sell, trade guns Via Gunbroker, local stores, Local FFl's. In State and out fo State. Thats what they like to do, just like a stamp collector does it with stamps. I NEVER HEARD any problems with that ( ?????) May be I am missing something?

I know tons of people like this....an some have run into problems but it's usually cause they run afoul in other areas of thier lives does this come up.......

So, FEDs and State people do look at these guys....jus keep your nose clean and you should be okay....it's a dangerous hobby in a lot of ways....