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jgaffney
01-11-2010, 1:40 PM
I did a search in this forum for "PPT" and didn't get any hits, so I thought I'd post this question:

I've been talking with gun stores lately about consignment pistols and have come to the conclusion that a 01 FFL is just as confused as the rest of us about consignment pistols. Several of the dealers have told me that they cannot display anything in their store other than a currently-listed handgun or a C&R. Other dealers have told me that a consignment sale is a private contract between the buyer and the seller, and the dealer only facilitates it by doing the DROS.

I have an 03 FFL and many of the pistols I'm interested in are coming up on 50 years old (that's only 1960 - a scary thought!). Since all handgun sales in Calif have to go through a 01 FFL, I'm curious about what other members here have encountered on this question.

Flintlock Tom
01-11-2010, 3:13 PM
Sorry?
I've read your post three times and I can't figure out what your question is.

If you're asking if dealers treat sales of C&R handguns any differently than any other handgun, the answer is no, except that C&R handguns are not subject to the not-prohibited handgun roster.

Glock22Fan
01-11-2010, 3:22 PM
I've sold an off-roster handgun through consignment at a dealer.

They told me that that was fine, but that they couldn't buy it themselves for tradein. In other words, I could not trade it in as part-payment for a new pistol, I had to leave it there until a buyer offered themselves, then the dealer did the DROS to make it legal. Then I bought the replacement pistol (changed a Mk I to a Mk III Ruger)

Omil
01-11-2010, 3:56 PM
I've sold an off-roster handgun through consignment at a dealer.

They told me that that was fine, but that they couldn't buy it themselves for tradein. In other words, I could not trade it in as part-payment for a new pistol, I had to leave it there until a buyer offered themselves, then the dealer did the DROS to make it legal. Then I bought the replacement pistol (changed a Mk I to a Mk III Ruger)

>>+1

dfletcher
01-11-2010, 4:18 PM
I've sold an off-roster handgun through consignment at a dealer.

They told me that that was fine, but that they couldn't buy it themselves for trade in. In other words, I could not trade it in as part-payment for a new pistol, I had to leave it there until a buyer offered themselves, then the dealer did the DROS to make it legal. Then I bought the replacement pistol (changed a Mk I to a Mk III Ruger)

Just curious - couldn't an FFL accept an off roster handgun for PPT, enter it on his books as a PPT and hand over cash to the "seller" immediately? I presume the only reason an FFL does not do this is because they don't want to hand over money to the PPT "seller" until the thing actually sells.

I think if a gun owner walked into a gun store with a nice new Python and said "I want $500.00 cash for this today" the FFL would gladly hand over the cash, carry the off roster handgun as a PPT until sold and then enjoy his $600.00 profit.

Am I wrong?

liketoshoot
01-11-2010, 4:27 PM
at the FFL I do most of my business he will buy any handgun and just sell it as a consignment. This way he can PPT them.

FortCourageArmory
01-11-2010, 5:31 PM
Here's my take on consignments and PPTs. You bring in a non-rostered gun you want me to sell, but I offer to buy it instead. If I pay you for it on the spot (and do all the related local-required paperwork), that gun now belongs to Fort Courage Armory. If I sell it in the store as a PPT, I have to collect the seller's signature as well as the buyer's on the DROS paperwork. I've already paid you so when I call and ask you to drop by and sign the DROS form so I can keep the paperwork right, maybe you come, maybe you blow me off. If you blow me off, I'm stuck. What do I do? Forge your signature? Not very likely. My license is worth more to me than that.

I pay consignees when their guns sell and when they show up for their $$, I collect their signature on the PPT paperwork. It's not all that hard to keep it straight if you just pay attention to what you are doing.

dfletcher
01-11-2010, 9:25 PM
Here's my take on consignments and PPTs. You bring in a non-rostered gun you want me to sell, but I offer to buy it instead. If I pay you for it on the spot (and do all the related local-required paperwork), that gun now belongs to Fort Courage Armory. If I sell it in the store as a PPT, I have to collect the seller's signature as well as the buyer's on the DROS paperwork. I've already paid you so when I call and ask you to drop by and sign the DROS form so I can keep the paperwork right, maybe you come, maybe you blow me off. If you blow me off, I'm stuck. What do I do? Forge your signature? Not very likely. My license is worth more to me than that.

I pay consignees when their guns sell and when they show up for their $$, I collect their signature on the PPT paperwork. It's not all that hard to keep it straight if you just pay attention to what you are doing.

I hadn't thought of that, I can imagine getting someone to return after they have cash in hand is a challenge. I've just sold two on consignment, I don't recall having to go back though. I think I signed off on everything at the time I dropped off the gun.

jgaffney
01-11-2010, 10:29 PM
So, it sounds like the concensus is that an 01 FFL can handle an off-list handgun consignment sale as a PPT between two customers, with the dealer facilitating the sale with the DROS. I think the dealer would be nuts to pay the seller before the handgun sells, because he can't guarantee what it will sell for. With consignment fees running at 20% locally, it would cut into his profit in a hurry if he had to cut the price to sell the gun.

Now, I just have to find a dealer in Sonoma County who buys into the PPT line of logic. I've been drooling on some pistols here, at GunBroker and ProxiBid, but I wanted to make sure I have the DROS lined up first.

halifax
01-11-2010, 10:33 PM
So, it sounds like the concensus is that an 01 FFL can handle an off-list handgun consignment sale as a PPT between two customers, with the dealer facilitating the sale with the DROS. I think the dealer would be nuts to pay the seller before the handgun sells, because he can't guarantee what it will sell for. With consignment fees running at 20% locally, it would cut into his profit in a hurry if he had to cut the price to sell the gun.

Now, I just have to find a dealer in Sonoma County who buys into the PPT line of logic. I've been drooling on some pistols here, at GunBroker and ProxiBid, but I wanted to make sure I have the DROS lined up first.

How does GunBroker and ProxiBid fit into non-rostered consignment sales between two CA residents?

SVT-40
01-11-2010, 10:41 PM
How does GunBroker and ProxiBid fit into non-rostered consignment sales between two CA residents?

They don't....

Gunbroker is a conduit to connect a seller with a buyer. Nothing more. It's up to the buyer to determine he is able to have the handgun shipped into Calif.

ProxyBid is basically the same situation. They act as a middle man to facilitate the sale between parties. Which in the case of ProxyBid is an auction company and a buyer. It's up to the buyer to be sure he can legally complete the sale in whatever state he resides in.

I work for an auction Co in So Cal. We use proxybid. We tell the prospective bidders BEFORE the start of the auction If they are California residents and buy a NON rostered handgun in our auction they MUST come to the shop to complete the transaction as we cannot ship a non rostered handgun to another California dealer for DROS.

FortCourageArmory
01-12-2010, 9:19 AM
I hadn't thought of that, I can imagine getting someone to return after they have cash in hand is a challenge. I've just sold two on consignment, I don't recall having to go back though. I think I signed off on everything at the time I dropped off the gun.
You can't sign off on the DROS form because it only gets generated at time of the PPT registration. If you signed off on ownershjip of your pistol, then that dealer now owns your gun and he's stuck with the limitations of the CA Handgun Roster.

jgaffney
01-12-2010, 1:02 PM
I work for an auction Co in So Cal. We use proxybid. We tell the prospective bidders BEFORE the start of the auction If they are California residents and buy a NON rostered handgun in our auction they MUST come to the shop to complete the transaction as we cannot ship a non rostered handgun to another California dealer for DROS.

Nevada is looking better and better!

too old for this
01-13-2010, 12:30 AM
How does GunBroker and ProxiBid fit into non-rostered consignment sales between two CA residents?

I have used GunBroker to both buy and sell guns. The only way to ship hand guns is via UPS, FedEx, etc. and they will only ship if the gun is going to or from a FFL. My GunBroker sale was to another CA resident and he met me in an FFL to do the DROS. Look at the comments on the private guns for sale listing on Calguns. How many times do you see "if you only live near by" comments. While they may be a pain-in-the-***, these are not dumb laws. Their purpose is to enforce background checks and keep guns out of the hands of bad guys while allowing us good guys to have our toys.

ap3572001
01-13-2010, 9:17 AM
On the same subject. I also noticed that MANY gunshops have an LEO ONLY gun case with nice used handguns. At very good prices. ANY LEO with an ID can buy it, as many as they want.Does that mean that as soon as they are sold to LEO , they are now good to be sold ( PPT) in CA?

halifax
01-13-2010, 10:26 AM
On the same subject. I also noticed that MANY gunshops have an LEO ONLY gun case with nice used handguns. At very good prices. ANY LEO with an ID can buy it, as many as they want.Does that mean that as soon as they are sold to LEO , they are now good to be sold ( PPT) in CA?

YES :)