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View Full Version : Used Handgun Round Count - Always "2 Beers"


Mikeinblack
01-10-2010, 9:35 PM
The more I look at used handguns, I am finding a dramatic response simularity with the DUI stops I see on "Cops". When the LEO pulls over a suspected DUI, 9 times out of 10 when he asks "How many drinks have you had tonight"? the response is "two beers",

It seems that almost every time I ask a seller how many rounds a piece has consumed, I can almost count on the seller saying "300"...

Is this just a common ammount for a handgun to be shot before the owner gets boared with it?, or is this just an (unverifiable) amount to allude that it has been barely used?

HCz
01-10-2010, 9:47 PM
more like 200. :p

Seems like it is close to it. I have a few guns that I shot around 200 rounds and got bored with it. Of course sometimes it is questionable whether the seller is being honest or not.

CA Gun Laws Suck
01-10-2010, 9:54 PM
I think it is to make people think it is barely used. Some people might think the same gun that has 1000 rounds down it compared to 200 or 300 is too used.

kurac
01-10-2010, 10:00 PM
I could care less how many rounds a gun has through it. I am more interested in the condition. If it was taken care of, you can tell. If what was neglected, you can also tell.

Mikeinblack
01-10-2010, 10:06 PM
I could care less how many rounds a gun has through it. I am more interested in the condition. If it was taken care of, you can tell. If what was neglected, you can also tell.

Anything that moves creates wear (although subtly) each time a trigger is pulled... I shot a rental Night Hawk 1911 in Torrance that had enough rounds through her to rattle when you moved it...

Trendkill
01-10-2010, 10:10 PM
Is this the same thing when a dude says to a chick..."So......how many guys have you slept with..?"

K5Cruiser
01-10-2010, 10:12 PM
Perhaps after that 4-6 boxes of ammo they're bored of the gun and ready to move on. Maybe another bigger and better gun has come their way and so they need to unload one for the other. If you shoot your guns much more than 2-300 rounds, then it may be hard to believe that someone would only shoot that few. Whereas if you rarely shoot your guns, or you are primarily a collector, then 2-300 rounds may sound normal, or even alot.

vta
01-10-2010, 10:13 PM
if people are like me, i shoot probably 2 guns 90% of the time and the rest of them get to share the other 10%. And the 2 that get all the attention are the least likely ones for me to put up for sale. it takes a lot of effort to leave your favorite guns at home when you go to the range. The less the rest of them get used, the more I think about getting rid of them.

BlackonBlack
01-10-2010, 10:13 PM
Yah I could imagine there could be some convenient errors when telling a buyer how many rounds go through it. Take it with a grain of salt. It is best to personally inspect the piece and see the wear for yourself. It doesn't matter how many rounds are through it, it matters how much wear it has and for the most part you can tell fairly easily. "You can roll back an odometer but you can't roll back wear to an engine block."

BlackonBlack
01-10-2010, 10:14 PM
For a lot of people there might be a thresh hold of how many rounds they fire through the gun to determine if they like it.. Or have lost interest.

louscamaro91
01-10-2010, 10:17 PM
I get bored of my guns before I shoot them. So any guns you buy from me are either 0 round count or 300-500 Max.
Unless your buying my Glockwhich in that case it has 10K rounds plus, does it matter with glocks?

Mikeinblack
01-10-2010, 10:19 PM
I get bored of my guns before I shoot them. So any guns you buy from me are either 0 round count or 300-500 Max.
Unless your buying my Glockwhich in that case it has 10K rounds plus, does it matter with glocks?

Wow 10K? Has anything needed to be replaced?

BlackonBlack
01-10-2010, 10:25 PM
Wow 10K? Has anything needed to be replaced?


WOW 10K. Come on it's a glock!!! They can go several times that!

MarioS
01-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Hmm, I've never come across that actually, that's interesting though.

Trendkill
01-10-2010, 10:54 PM
WOW 10K. Come on it's a glock!!! They can go several times that!


I laughed out loud on that one.....

louscamaro91
01-10-2010, 11:05 PM
Only thing replace was more ammo in magazine when it went empty. I would consider it broken in.. Still makes that damn cricket noise when I rack the slide.

nickvig
01-10-2010, 11:10 PM
I traded for a Sig P220. It was NIB and I hated it. Shot literally 300 rounds through it and put it up for trade. I'm sure this kind of situation happens to a lot of guys here, you see a gun that you think you'll like, buy or horsetrade for it, end up not digging it after 200-300 rounds and trade it off for something else.

I generally take notes while I'm at the range and write down what I was shooting and how many rounds. I only bring a certain number of each round I'm going to shoot and I keep a pretty good round count. I'm sure a lot of the guys here do the same.

louscamaro91
01-10-2010, 11:13 PM
I keep track of round in my excel spreadsheets for my weapons. Not hard and only takes minutes.

armedoffroader
01-11-2010, 8:39 AM
Is this the same thing when a dude says to a chick..."So......how many guys have you slept with..?"

It sounds about the same to me...which is why I always do a thorough inspection of all used goods for their condition prior to use :)

himurax13
01-11-2010, 8:44 AM
Is this the same thing when a dude says to a chick..."So......how many guys have you slept with..?"

So from now on, we will just take the seller's round count and multiply it by 3. :rolleyes:

Grumpyoldretiredcop
01-11-2010, 8:48 AM
Not everybody uses the "two beers" estimation scheme. I generally keep track of my round counts; if I need to estimate, I estimate high, not low. I'd rather have someone not buy because they think it's "too used" than get it in their hands and think they've been ripped off because it looks "too used" for the round count.

Gio
01-11-2010, 8:49 AM
Not everybody uses the "two beers" estimation scheme. I generally keep track of my round counts; if I need to estimate, I estimate high, not low. I'd rather have someone not buy because they think it's "too used" than get it in their hands and think they've been ripped off because it looks "too used" for the round count.

:iagree:

BigBronco
01-11-2010, 9:20 AM
I have a few that the round counts would definitely be impossible to count and a couple than I have had for over 15 years with less than a box through. "I need to do something about this". After all a German PPKS is not exactly a target model . Even some of the "family" that I love do not go out to the range that often. I recently took one of my safe queens with all the best intentions to the semi local indoor range and ended up not firing a shot through it. It was like this, when the guys behind the counter saw it they exclaimed "You are not going to shoot that, are you. It is way too valuable". They kinda messed me up in the head. I mean I have had it for 15 years or so and probably ran less than 2 boxes through her. I replied it is just a stainless 6 inch Python. They won the day and now I am looking for another 357 to add to the Family. I sure miss the model 19 that I probably ran 5,000 plus rounds through before loosing it to a pawnshop in harder times. Then there is the S&W Model 57 4 inch Nickle plated. One of my favorites and until recently I have only taken it to the range twice. Factory ammo is way too expensive. However I just bought some dies Brass and etc. It is just there never seems to be time to sit down and load them up. Have a nice day and keep the hammers falling.

Rekrab
01-11-2010, 10:08 AM
My only used gun the seller had the decency to tell me he had "no idea" how many rounds had been put through it. Which is a good thing, because I'm sure it was a lot. Still shoots like a champ though, even if it does have a crumby trigger.

I'll never understand people who keep safe queens though. Guns just scream to be shot. So I comply.

Argonaut
01-11-2010, 10:25 AM
This round count thing has always been curious to me. In the military, No one keeps any sort of a round count. If the gun gets worn, it goes to be rebuilt. If the buyer is not able to judge the wear in a gun or have an idea what life might be left in it he should not be buying it in the first place. Mabe the round count thing came from all these junk clones on the market that have poor heat treating and manufacturing process. We have a Chow (Colt) M1911 that was shot at the range for a couple of decades by a serious target shooter, Looks and functions as new, where one that was drug through foxholes for a year might have only been shot a few times but have a problem. Our Trap Shotguns seldom show wear where Hunting guns can look terrible in short order.

retired
01-11-2010, 11:15 AM
When I was in patrol, the first response I usually received to the question of how many beers was, "None deputy." When I asked again then I would get the, "Two beers deputy.":D Everyone only had two beers.:D

I have my service revolver (S&W Model 15) and 92f that I bought when I retired. They both have had some thousands of rounds thru them, tho I have no idea now many. If I was still in le, I wouldn't hesitate using them again as a duty weapon to protect me if necessary. They have always gone bang when I pulled the trigger.

jazman
01-11-2010, 11:49 AM
The round count thing is over rated to me. I posted/sold a nice, pre-safety Rossi lever gun from the early 80ies in great shape a year or so back, first pm I get is "how many rounds through it"? Dumb question, who knows and who cares? The gun was close to 30 years old.

Argonaut
01-11-2010, 11:53 AM
The round count thing is over rated to me. I posted/sold a nice, pre-safety Rossi lever gun from the early 80ies in great shape a year or so back, first pm I get is "how many rounds through it"? Dumb question, who knows and who cares? The gun was close to 30 years old.

....................+1............................ .

Synergy
01-11-2010, 12:04 PM
When I was in patrol, the first response I usually received to the question of how many beers was, "None deputy." When I asked again then I would get the, "Two beers deputy.":D Everyone only had two beers.:D

I always follow the "2 beers response" with how big were the beers? 2 40's, 2 pitchers? Its usually throws them off for a few seconds. I have had a few drunk guys respond. I had 6 or 5. Thats a whole joke in our dept now.

I just recently started buying a few new items via PPT. I do take a seller at his word, though as previously stated. I can tell a lot by wear and tear, abuse or something well taken care of.

MasterYong
01-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Every used gun I've ever seen in the shop in Humboldt that I've asked round-count questions about prompts the answer "under 100". Every single one.

I've even seen guns with obvious SERIOUS holster wear, slide wear, etc and the shop monkeys STILL say "under 100".

I don't buy used guns, EVER. Maybe from someone I know personally, never form a shop.

cheese
01-11-2010, 12:52 PM
It wouldnt suprise me if a lot of people buy a handgun or shotgun for the home and then never shoot it.
I keep my brass from my handguns to keep track of round count. But things would have to be really bad for me to ever consider selling a gun.

Mikeinblack
01-11-2010, 5:59 PM
Again with My worn out Night Hawk example... Gun looked great, and would have looked really awesome in a picture in an ad, which one might instantly respond "I'll Take it" only to discover the thing was a huge dissapointment when they got their hands on it... The thing was and is actually a beautiful gun... Just worn out...

louscamaro91
01-11-2010, 8:19 PM
I'll take your old worn out nighthawk off your hands. Throw a price at me

Mikeinblack
01-11-2010, 8:31 PM
Sorry, that was "my example"... No way I would have bought it after realizing how loose and worn it was... They even charged extra to rent the thing due to the name... I really wonder how many went down the pipe to get it to that point... Hopefully more than 10K...

mswanson223
01-11-2010, 8:36 PM
Why is it that people wanna know the guns round count when your selling a piece.

Rob454
01-11-2010, 8:36 PM
I rarely keeptrack of how many rounds I shout through the gun. i give a setimate if someone really wants to know but I dotn count every round I shot through a gun. i can however tell you on my newest purchases and thats only because I have the ammo I bought and just a simple subtraction will tell me how many rounds i shot though it. other than that as time goes on I dont really care anymore. The gun is worth what it is and thats it.
You can usually tell if a gun had some major usage. its a gun round count makes a difference but its not liek the gun has a odometer on it for round count.
Well i better not say that Aftewr microstamping the gun roundometer will be the next option on your next purchase in this state

SarcoBlaster
01-11-2010, 8:46 PM
Why is it that people wanna know the guns round count when your selling a piece.
Why do you want to know how many miles are on a used car before buying it?

scobun
01-11-2010, 8:49 PM
I'd bet that a solid third to half of the handguns in existence are purchased with a box of ammunition, and never even go through the first box. We just don't see many of them around here because they've been sitting in the same shoebox since 1980. There are a lot of those out there.

Richie Caketown
01-11-2010, 8:51 PM
I get bored of my guns before I shoot them. So any guns you buy from me are either 0 round count or 300-500 Max.


Same category here ... except my M&P9 , that beauty is 900rds in

zippo
01-11-2010, 9:16 PM
I'd bet that a solid third to half of the handguns in existence are purchased with a box of ammunition, and never even go through the first box. We just don't see many of them around here because they've been sitting in the same shoebox since 1980. There are a lot of those out there.

me also... just do not shoot much but like to have 2 or more guns in home.
most of my gun is run around 2-500rd per gun because I just did not have time to shoot that much just like to buy gun to keep.

kkd
01-11-2010, 9:29 PM
The round count thing is over rated to me. ..., first pm I get is "how many rounds through it"? Dumb question, who knows and who cares?

I agree. How many beers? I don't care


Round count tells only a little about the overall condition.

Mikeinblack
01-11-2010, 9:58 PM
Good to know a non dropped gun with thousands of rounds through it is just as valuable as one with 0-50 to some people... I guess I am one of the "dumb" ones that will continue to ask this (especially If all I have to go by is one or two fuzzy pictures in a post)... Good to know that there is NO correlation between amount of use and overall condition...

SanSacto
01-11-2010, 10:05 PM
I have only shot my AK a bunch but have not yet fired my AR-15 (my first, one, and only). So if people are like me I do believe it.

Ishoot
01-11-2010, 10:09 PM
I agree. How many beers? I don't care


Round count tells only a little about the overall condition.

Very true, but that's like asking about how much flight time an aircraft has had or how many miles a car has since you can't inspect it firsthand. Certain parts need to be replaced, inspected. Gives a good general idea on the condition of the firearm before any visual inspection.

esskay
01-11-2010, 10:22 PM
I keep track of round in my excel spreadsheets for my weapons. Not hard and only takes minutes.

Guess there are a couple of us OCD types around here! I keep logs on my guns too. When I've sold guns, I cite my round counts and history. If second-hand to me, I'll cite what the seller told me on round count (if available) and my round count. If I don't know, I'll state that too. My philosophy -- be straightforward, give all the info you have, people will decide for themselves. Some care, some don't. Some folks appreciate the attention to detail. Cool either way, as they say, it is what it is.

Keep logs on my vehicles too... ;)

Should add that the high round count guns, I'm obviously shooting a lot... so pretty unlikely to sell them! It's the ones that don't get shot that are likely to get pruned -- so usually would not have put many rounds through those that might be put up for sale.

pisarski
01-12-2010, 4:27 AM
most of my guns have lots of rounds down the pipe but i have some that i have never shot an some that i shot one time but for round count i don't know on the ones that i shoot all the time

CSACANNONEER
01-12-2010, 5:53 AM
I've laughed about this for a long time. I think many newer shooters think that 200-300 rounds is a lot and they are scared to buy a gun which has seen a bit of use. My go to carry gun (Kimber 1911 - Pro CDPII) has well over 20,000 rounds through it and it is the handgun I trust the most. For the most part, round count is highly over rated around here. There are exceptions but, they are mainly rifles chambered in certain "hot" calibers. Even then, I'd just be concerned with the round count through that barrel and barrels can be replaced.

bigbob76
01-12-2010, 6:41 AM
In my case that's about how many rounds I want to shoot a pistol to find out if it's reliable.

ZombieTactics
01-12-2010, 7:01 AM
Any gun I buy used:

Field strip and physically inspect for wear/damage/abuse.
Carefully inspect barrel crown.
Carefully inspect chamber and feed ramp for dings, nicks, scratches, anything unusual.
Find all the 'shiny spots' to see where wear is occuring ... is it wearing normally?
Run a dry patch through the barrel, then a wet patch, then dry patch ... has this thing been maintained at all? Especially look for flecks of brass ... possible failures/damage.
Inspect the magazines ... they are often overlooked in the "clean it up and make it look good'" process. A worn magazine tells you a lot.
Shoot it. If a 'test drive' isn't possible, it's not even a possible sale.

WokMaster1
01-12-2010, 7:06 AM
Guns should get more expensive with every round that is fired. LOL!

g17owner
01-12-2010, 2:37 PM
perfect example for me is my glock 21. It is a early 90's gen II with an exceptionally low round count. The smiley is barely even visible. The thing has got to be maybe almost 20 years old. However the german p220 i bought last year has alot of barrel wear. Maybe thousands of rounds went through it. i use wear as a round count indicator.

bigbob76
01-12-2010, 2:45 PM
Any gun I buy used:

Field strip and physically inspect for wear/damage/abuse.
Carefully inspect barrel crown.
Carefully inspect chamber and feed ramp for dings, nicks, scratches, anything unusual.
Find all the 'shiny spots' to see where wear is occuring ... is it wearing normally?
Run a dry patch through the barrel, then a wet patch, then dry patch ... has this thing been maintained at all? Especially look for flecks of brass ... possible failures/damage.
Inspect the magazines ... they are often overlooked in the "clean it up and make it look good'" process. A worn magazine tells you a lot.
Shoot it. If a 'test drive' isn't possible, it's not even a possible sale.


How many sellers have went along with this process for you?

MasterYong
01-12-2010, 2:50 PM
How many sellers have went along with this process for you?

+1. I can rarely even get an FFL to let me strip a gun before purchase, let alone everything else he listed. Even if it's something that's a no-brainer to strip like a glock or XD.

Deadbolt
01-12-2010, 3:01 PM
I'd bet that a solid third to half of the handguns in existence are purchased with a box of ammunition, and never even go through the first box. We just don't see many of them around here because they've been sitting in the same shoebox since 1980. There are a lot of those out there.

Truth!! I just purchased one. S&W 6906.

Brand spanking NIB from the 80s.

http://visuallyill.com/2way/bootyHoles.jpg

GunNutz
01-12-2010, 3:04 PM
The more I look at used handguns, I am finding a dramatic response simularity with the DUI stops I see on "Cops". When the LEO pulls over a suspected DUI, 9 times out of 10 when he asks "How many drinks have you had tonight"? the response is "two beers",

It seems that almost every time I ask a seller how many rounds a piece has consumed, I can almost count on the seller saying "300"...

Is this just a common ammount for a handgun to be shot before the owner gets boared with it?, or is this just an (unverifiable) amount to allude that it has been barely used?

Yeah, kinda funny since most pistols take 500+ rounds to break-in...