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JohanD
01-10-2010, 8:56 AM
If your private residence is within 1000 feet of a school, is it legal to cary a loaded firearm in said residence?

Theseus
01-10-2010, 8:59 AM
Inside your home is OK.
In your front yard might get you in trouble if it is not fenced, and maybe even if it is.

626.9(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

JohanD
01-10-2010, 9:02 AM
Ok, thank you.

glockwise2000
01-10-2010, 9:07 AM
Inside your home is OK.
In your front yard might get you in trouble if it is not fenced, and maybe even if it is.

I believe your yard is a part of your place of residence, so front yard would still be okay. As long as you don't cross the boundary of your property.

Theseus
01-10-2010, 9:13 AM
I believe your yard is a part of your place of residence, so front yard would still be okay. As long as you don't cross the boundary of your property.

Look carefully. "Within a place of residence". Your front yard is not considered a residence per case law.

kf6tac
01-10-2010, 2:42 PM
Look carefully. "Within a place of residence". Your front yard is not considered a residence per case law.

And is sometimes even considered a public place.

bigcalidave
01-10-2010, 2:53 PM
Don't get seen!!! Wandering around your front lawn with a handgun stuffed into your belt on the outside of your shirt, across the street from a school, will get you in trouble.

bucket49
01-10-2010, 3:21 PM
Yes when outside your home you are on private property!!!

Look carefully. "Within a place of residence". Your front yard is not considered a residence per case law.

GuyW
01-10-2010, 3:43 PM
I believe your yard is a part of your place of residence, so front yard would still be okay. As long as you don't cross the boundary of your property.

^^^^^

This advice will get someone arrested....
.

bigcalidave
01-10-2010, 4:11 PM
Yes when outside your home you are on private property!!!

Theseus has a really good handling on the term private property and what it may cost you to assume that.

hoffmang
01-10-2010, 4:16 PM
Any part of your yard that is inside a school zone and is not fully fenced in or enclosed is a "public place" even though it is private property and you can not carry a loaded unlocked firearm there.

-Gene

IW378
01-10-2010, 4:21 PM
What if you have your perimeters clearly posted as private property so that anyone that enters your property has to see them ?

JaMail
01-10-2010, 4:24 PM
doesnt matter, see genes above post

huggybear
01-10-2010, 4:32 PM
I live next to a school, when i take my guns to the range i have them in a locked container inside the trunk, this is legal right? What about when i have both firearms and ammo with me?

JDoe
01-10-2010, 4:49 PM
Any part of your yard that is inside a school zone and is not fully fenced in or enclosed is a "public place" even though it is private property and you can not carry a loaded unlocked firearm there.

-Gene

If I recall correctly Theseus was open carrying an unloaded, unlocked handgun on private property (a parking lot open to the public) that the Judge called public.

So unloaded and unlocked in the front yard of your house could be considered public property for the purposes of 626.9.

Some people are of the opinion that carrying a firearm in your backyard may or may not be the same as carrying in your front yard. Personally I wouldn't take the chance if I were in a school zone and wouldn't step outside of my residence with unlocked firearms (except in a dire emergency.)

SimpleCountryActuary
01-10-2010, 6:12 PM
What if you have your perimeters clearly posted as private property so that anyone that enters your property has to see them ?

Get a fence.

"Good fences make good neighbors." -- Robert Frost

"Good fences don't fink to the cops." -- Mack the Knife

.
.
.

I made the last one up, but you knew that.

Casual_Shooter
01-10-2010, 6:18 PM
Any part of your yard that is inside a school zone and is not fully fenced in or enclosed is a "public place" even though it is private property and you can not carry a loaded unlocked firearm there.

-Gene

So I'm paying property tax on and watering public property? Might be time to request a refund and get someone to pay for that water bill. ;)

DedEye
01-10-2010, 6:24 PM
Any part of your yard that is inside a school zone and is not fully fenced in or enclosed is a "public place" even though it is private property and you can not carry a loaded unlocked firearm there.

-Gene

Ta-Da (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Can_I_carry_a_concealed_handgun_within_yard_or _property_without_a_concealed_carry_permit.3F).

GrizzlyGuy
01-10-2010, 6:35 PM
Ta-Da (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Can_I_carry_a_concealed_handgun_within_yard_or _property_without_a_concealed_carry_permit.3F).

I'm not sure if that Q&A (mainly the Q) is correct:

Can I carry a concealed handgun within yard or property without a concealed carry permit?

Yes, but only if your yard is fully enclosed such as by a fence.

If it is not fenced, it is considered a "public place" even though it is private property and you can not carry a loaded, unlocked firearm there.

The "public place" language is in 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) (loaded) rather than 12025 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html) (concealed). 12026 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html) exempts private property entirely, even if it is a public place:

...anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol...

I interpret that to mean that you can carry concealed (but not loaded) all the way to your property line, whether it is a public place or not. So, the answer is correct, but it is for the wrong question.

DedEye
01-10-2010, 6:36 PM
I'm not sure if that Q&A (mainly the Q) is correct:



The "public place" language is in 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) (loaded) rather than 12025 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html) (concealed). 12026 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html) exempts private property entirely, even if it is a public place:



I interpret that to mean that you can carry concealed (but not loaded) all the way to your property line, whether it is a public place or not. So, the answer is correct, but it is for the wrong question.

Feel free to edit away ;). The link in my post may break, but I can fix that.

It can be hard coming up with a concise question that addresses the issue.

Librarian
01-10-2010, 6:48 PM
I'm not sure if that Q&A (mainly the Q) is correct:



The "public place" language is in 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html) (loaded) rather than 12025 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html) (concealed). 12026 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html) exempts private property entirely, even if it is a public place:



I interpret that to mean that you can carry concealed (but not loaded) all the way to your property line, whether it is a public place or not. So, the answer is correct, but it is for the wrong question.

Doesn't seem to work that way, in practice. See the longer treatment (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California#A_.22Public_Place.22 )at the Wiki.

People v Strider, cited there, is remarkable because it seems to be a start to rolling up that odd enforcement of 'public place'.

CpuFixrMan
01-10-2010, 6:52 PM
This is one that has me thinking, as a new house I am looking to buy is down the street from a school. Does "fenced" mean any means of blocking unimpeded direct passage through the yard, unless a person steps over said fencing (think 18" high split rail style decorative fencing) and does the driveway have to be enclosed or can the driveway be open?

bodger
01-10-2010, 7:26 PM
This is one that has me thinking, as a new house I am looking to buy is down the street from a school. Does "fenced" mean any means of blocking unimpeded direct passage through the yard, unless a person steps over said fencing (think 18" high split rail style decorative fencing) and does the driveway have to be enclosed or can the driveway be open?


It would appear that in this state, all of what you ask might well be defined by some overzealous gun-grabbing DA and a judge who legislates from the bench and encourages LEOs to "infer and convict".

I live within 1000' of a school, and I wouldn't carry a firearm anywhere on my property where I could be seen by law enforcement or any person likely to call in a MWG report.

Some of these laws are impossible to understand and abide by.

Theseus
01-10-2010, 7:38 PM
It would appear that in this state, all of what you ask might well be defined by some overzealous gun-grabbing DA and a judge who legislates from the bench and encourages LEOs juries to "infer and convict".

I live within 1000' of a school, and I wouldn't carry a firearm anywhere on my property where I could be seen by law enforcement or any person likely to call in a MWG report.

Some of these laws are impossible to understand and abide by.

Fixed it to apply to my case.

JohanD
01-10-2010, 7:44 PM
Thank you for the discussion, I am glad it brought out a few points. I will make sure I am out of sight whenever handling a firearm, including keeping the garage door down when loading up the vehicle.

bodger
01-10-2010, 7:52 PM
Fixed it to apply to my case.



Got it, I had mis-read an earlier post of yours, thought it was the LEOs that got that from the DA.

And then I ask, how am I supposed to, outside a mistake of fact/mistake of law means, argue that I didn't know I was in a school zone by any means other than testifying "I didn't know there was a school"? Even having the police testify that there are multiple ways to get to the location without ever knowing there was a school the jury still bought it and the DA's ridiculous "that is a red hearing. . . you are supposed to infer he took the specific route and convict!"

GrizzlyGuy
01-11-2010, 6:25 AM
Fixed it to apply to my case.

And in your case, the overriding verb was persecute rather than prosecute. There is at least some semblance of fairness and justice in prosecutions. Persecutions... not so much. :rolleyes:

Theseus
01-11-2010, 8:51 AM
Now, it is too late in my case, but it might also be argued that the parking lot of a business is still "within a business" because a business can and is often conducted in a parking lot, and is still theoretically covered or included in the business license.

For example, I would also get water at the same shopping center as the laundry mat I was at. Very often I would conduct the business on the same sidewalk as the bench since there was a water vending machine there. As mentioned elsewhere, if I can possess a firearm within 1000 feet of a school zone, then why can't I still be within a business in the parking lot of that business?