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fpasuncion
01-10-2010, 8:19 AM
Calgunners,

What does it exactly mean when stores sell a certain product and they state that "all NFA Rules apply"?

JDay
01-10-2010, 8:22 AM
Calgunners,

What does it exactly mean when stores sell a certain product and they state that "all NFA Rules apply"?

National Firearms Act. Don't worry about it since you can't buy any of that stuff in this state anyway.

fpasuncion
01-10-2010, 8:28 AM
I was just looking at a website selling complete uppers. They had a 11.5" barreled upper and it stated that it was legal for sale in CA. They were sold out, but it also said, "all NFA rules apply". What's up with that? For sale to LEO's only, I guess?
http://dynamicarmament.com/items/AR-15-COMPLETE-UPPERS/list.htm

National Firearms Act. Don't worry about it since you can't buy any of that stuff in this state anyway.

Quiet
01-10-2010, 8:45 AM
I was just looking at a website selling complete uppers. They had a 11.5" barreled upper and it stated that it was legal for sale in CA. They were sold out, but it also said, "all NFA rules apply". What's up with that? For sale to LEO's only, I guess?
http://dynamicarmament.com/items/AR-15-COMPLETE-UPPERS/list.htm
In regards to the AR uppers you mentioned and "all NFA rules apply" and legal for sale in CA, it means you can only legally install it on an AR pistol.

If you installed it on a rifle, you would be violating "NFA rules" by making a SBR.

glockwise2000
01-10-2010, 10:10 AM
In regards to the AR uppers you mentioned and "all NFA rules apply" and legal for sale in CA, it means you can only legally install it on an AR pistol.

If you installed it on a rifle, you would be violating "NFA rules" by making a SBR.


And also violating AW rule.

gunn
01-10-2010, 10:31 AM
Be mindful of constructive possession laws.
You cannot possess a <16" barrelled upper unless you also own a lower to legally fit it on (SBR regged lower or pistol).

This is different from the state AWB laws where constructive possesion doesnt count.

bwiese
01-10-2010, 10:34 AM
Calgunners,

What does it exactly mean when stores sell a certain product and they state that "all NFA Rules apply"?

It means there could be risk either using it or even possessing it in certain circumnstances. Also, given separate CA law regulating MGs, SBRs, SBSes, etc even if you manage to escape Federal risk there could easily be state risk.

Also some companies sell certain parts that can just about only be illegal in 99% circumstances and use the above as an escape clause.


1. Don't acquire/possess full-auto fire-control parts. 12200PC is too murky. Bolt carriers are OK.

2. Don't acquire/possess a short-bbl upper, due to 'constructive possession':- you have a rifle/rifle receiver matching it & no legit pistol for it;
- you don't have at least one pistol/pistol receiver that matches it;
- if you have such an upper but no receivers that's OK, but then it blocks you
from acquiring rifle/rifle receivers til you get at least one matching pistol/pistol receiver.
- all of the above is completely separate from Calif AW laws, and the above applies similarly
to shotguns as it does rifles.

3. Don't have suppressor (silencer) parts.

4. Don't put forward/front pistol grip on a pistol - aside from certain AW issues that may exist depending on configuration, it also creates an NFA "AOW" gun.

5. The above list hits the hot spots but is certainly not exhaustive.
Think, pay attention, ask.

mossy
01-10-2010, 11:06 AM
means you cant get that fun stuff here.

B Strong
01-10-2010, 11:15 AM
I was just looking at a website selling complete uppers. They had a 11.5" barreled upper and it stated that it was legal for sale in CA. They were sold out, but it also said, "all NFA rules apply". What's up with that? For sale to LEO's only, I guess?
http://dynamicarmament.com/items/AR-15-COMPLETE-UPPERS/list.htm

In this specific instance, the term "all NFA rules apply" means the the item in question is subject to the NFA.

An upper receiver with a barrel length of under 16", if assembled on a conventional rifle lower reciver would fall into the classification of a "Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and would be subject to National Firearms Act registration and permitting at the federal level (not to mention state law everywhere too)

If you posses an AR lower receiver that is not registered as a "pistol" lower, or do not have a rifle receiver with a SBR tax stamp, Or a registered MG lower, do not possess an upper with a barrel shorter than 16", as it would constitute "Constructive Possession" of an SBR.

An upper with a barrel shorter than 16" can use a permanently fixed muzzle device to get the upper over 16", but again, do not posses the upper until that device is permanently fixed unless you meet the above conditions (registered pistol lower, registered SBR lower, registered MG lower)

CaliforniaLiberal
01-10-2010, 11:24 AM
"All NFA rules apply" means that some people in some places in some circumstances will violate federal law by purchasing this item.

That means that you and I can't have it.

yellowfin
01-10-2010, 1:26 PM
Here's a pretty informative video on the process of NFA purchase and ownership.

8513709

JDay
01-10-2010, 8:38 PM
Be mindful of constructive possession laws.
You cannot possess a <16" barrelled upper unless you also own a lower to legally fit it on (SBR regged lower or pistol).

This is different from the state AWB laws where constructive possesion doesnt count.

Cant have constructive possession without a lower to put it on. Just make sure that any rifle lowers you have already have a legal upper if you're paranoid. The burden of proof is on the state to prove that you intended to break the law, who's to say you didn't get the upper first and are saving money for the lower? Just to be safe keep the upper stored away from the rifles that it could fit on.

bwiese
01-10-2010, 11:56 PM
Cant have constructive possession without a lower to put it on. Just make sure that any rifle lowers you have already have a legal upper if you're paranoid. The burden of proof is on the state to prove that you intended to break the law, who's to say you didn't get the upper first and are saving money for the lower? Just to be safe keep the upper stored away from the rifles that it could fit on.

No!!

"Constructive possession" involves mere "ownership and control" of the separated parts.

If you have a rifle and/or rifle receiver at home, and a separate spare pistol upper at your lake house, you could be in constructive possession of an SBR under CA law. I don't see any escapes for 'lack of intent'.

JDay
01-11-2010, 1:14 AM
No!!

"Constructive possession" involves mere "ownership and control" of the separated parts.

If you have a rifle and/or rifle receiver at home, and a separate spare pistol upper at your lake house, you could be in constructive possession of an SBR under CA law. I don't see any escapes for 'lack of intent'.

How would owning both a complete AR rifle and an AR pistol be any different then? You could easily swap the uppers. By this logic you shouldn't own both. I do not see how this law can be constitutional. Would owning sheet metal and a machine shop be constructive possession too since you could use those to make full auto weapons? Where does it stop?