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parcours
01-08-2010, 6:39 PM
I'm hoping I get some clarification on the what is considered "proof".

If we look at the California Firearms laws from 2007 we find this:

California Residency Requirement
No firearms dealer may deliver a handgun unless the intended recipient presents satisfactory documentation indicating that he or she is a California resident. Satisfactory documentation includes a utility bill from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property deed, military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice. Acceptable documentation does not include passports, account statements from financial institutions, or pay stubs. (Penal Code 12071(b)(8).)

My question revolves around the use of a California issued CCW as proof of residency. If one has a California CCW I know you are exempt from the HSC through the X44 exemption. Does not the CCW also exclude the "utility bill", "DMV" requirement seeing how it is it's a Govn't issued ID? Doesn't "or other evidence of residency as permitted by the DOJ" allow for a Ca. issued CCW to be used?

There's more to this story and I'll explain when I get supported answers.

I think I found what I was looking for: Check out the underlined section below:

This comes from: Chapter 4, Title 11, Division 5, Evidence of Residency Documentation

d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following: 1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following: A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form. B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto. 2. A valid peace officer credential issued by a California law enforcement agency to an active, reserve, or retired peace officer. Note: Authority cited: Section 12071, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 12071 and 12072, Penal Code.

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 6:50 PM
Here is CADOJ's regulations on POR, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

here is where that CA CCW (and out-of-state non-resident CCWs) should work as POR.

d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

gotgunz
01-08-2010, 7:11 PM
Here is CADOJ's regulations on POR, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

here is where that CA CCW should work as POR.

This is all I have ever used to prove residency.

parcours
01-08-2010, 8:13 PM
You know when carefully read section d1: A current government issued (city, county, special district, state or federal) license, permit or registration, other than a CDL or CIC that has a specified expiration date or period of validity.

There's no mention of the government issued license, permit, etc having to be from California.... So does this mean that a Utah CCW, government issued permit showing the individuals name and California address is valid as a California POR?


Interesting.....

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 9:04 PM
You know when carefully read section d1: A current government issued (city, county, special district, state or federal) license, permit or registration, other than a CDL or CIC that has a specified expiration date or period of validity.

There's no mention of the government issued license, permit, etc having to be from California.... So does this mean that a Utah CCW, government issued permit showing the individuals name and California address is valid as a California POR?


Interesting.....Yes, per the regs, it should. Now, whether your FFL will accept it, and more importantly, will a CADOJ inspector accept it during an audit ....

CenterX
01-08-2010, 9:08 PM
All depends on the FFL. Some do and many don't.
CA auto registration is accepted by most, provided the address on the registration matches your CA ID, which some FFLs stress needs to be a street also.
Ask them and see what they have for a store policy.

ZirconJohn
01-08-2010, 9:11 PM
California CCW 'valid dates' are accepted as POR.

Out-of-State CCW are not.

However, please do check with your FFL Dealer prior to making the trek...,

You know what I mean... right?

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 9:18 PM
California CCW 'valid dates' are accepted as POR.

Out-of-State CCW are not.

However, please do check with your FFL Dealer prior to making the trek...,

You know what I mean... right?why isn't it? Is it not a "A current government issued (state) license/ permit that has a specified expiration date or period of validity". I don't see where the regs say that only the only state that is acceptable is CA.

Did CADOJ tell you that POR issued from other states is not vaild? In writing or verbally?

tenpercentfirearms
01-08-2010, 10:05 PM
I love CCWs as they are proof of residency and HSC exemption.

I believe out of state CCWs will not provide HSC exemption.

TripleT
01-08-2010, 10:50 PM
I love CCWs as they are proof of residency and HSC exemption.

I believe out of state CCWs will not provide HSC exemption.

+1 For Wes again.

I still think the USFS woodcutting permit is the most unique approach. :)

parcours
01-09-2010, 5:29 AM
OK... Let me throw this in the mix...

CCW: Your physical street address, name, etc.

CDL: PO Box...

CCW still provides the FFL with everything required by the DOJ? HSC exemption and POR. Keeping in mind Title 11, Div 5...

I say yes.

Fissssh
01-11-2010, 9:50 PM
My CDL has my PO Box #. The last handgun purchase they used my car registration that shows physical address and PO Box #. Actually the last 4 purchases that was all that was required besides my DL. The handgun was about 6-8 month's ago and just recently a AR.

tenpercentfirearms
01-12-2010, 6:03 AM
OK... Let me throw this in the mix...

CCW: Your physical street address, name, etc.

CDL: PO Box...

CCW still provides the FFL with everything required by the DOJ? HSC exemption and POR. Keeping in mind Title 11, Div 5...

I say yes.

CCW covers state and feds. State it covers POR and HSC. Feds it covers secondary proof of residency as a government issued document. CCW is the trump card of all trump cards. Well except law enforcement letter to waive the ten days.

parcours
01-12-2010, 8:45 PM
CCW covers state and feds. State it covers POR and HSC. Feds it covers secondary proof of residency as a government issued document. CCW is the trump card of all trump cards. Well except law enforcement letter to waive the ten days.


I wish all FFL's were up to speed on the regs as you are...

Thanks!

mtsul
01-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Here is CADOJ's regulations on POR, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

here is where that CA CCW (and out-of-state non-resident CCWs) should work as POR.

Am I able to use my Vehicle salesperson license?

ke6guj
01-15-2010, 11:09 AM
Am I able to use my Vehicle salesperson license?

By the regs, you should.

d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.The Vehicle Salesperson License is issued by the state of CA and is not a CA DL or CA ID that has your name, address, and I'm assuming an expiration date. The fact that CA DMV issues all three items should not matter, but in the end, it is up to your FFL what he is willing to accept.

mtsul
01-15-2010, 11:12 AM
By the regs, you should.

The Vehicle Salesperson License is issued by the state of CA and is not a CA DL or CA ID that has your name, address, and I'm assuming an expiration date. The fact that CA DMV issues all three items should not matter, but in the end, it is up to your FFL what he is willing to accept.

Cool and yes it does have a expiration date
So I SHOULD be able to use my Vehicle Salesperson License and my DL to buy a gun instead of my Car REG

ke6guj
01-15-2010, 11:15 AM
I don't see why not. But as I said, your FFL has the last call on it.

mtsul
01-15-2010, 11:17 AM
I don't see why not. But as I said, your FFL has the last call on it.

Cool good to know thank you

Casual Observer
01-19-2010, 7:39 PM
i had a guy use a speeding ticket once...

It had his name, address, issued by a government authority and a period of validity (court date). :cool: