PDA

View Full Version : Could someone help clarify transporting a handgun in my vehicle?


Frosty
01-07-2010, 8:01 PM
I've been reviewing the law and its various interpretations and I've found something a little unclear. First, here is what I've found:

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted
classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or
Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from
transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the
following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

NOW, if I am carrying my pistol in my trunk (qualifies as a locked container according to these laws), does it ALSO need to be in a smaller locked container (assume the ammo is elsewhere in the vehicle)? From directly interpreting this legal literature, it would seem that if "The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk OR in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment" then the firearm is being transported legally. I realize it would have to be locked to place it into or remove it from the trunk, but it's vague nonetheless.

Also, it seems pretty vague as far as simply having a loose (not bolted down) locked container in the car. If my handgun is in its case, locked from the outside with a gun lock or padlock, can it be anywhere in my car? (e.g. on the seat next to me, in the glovebox as it is not defined as a locked container, etc.)

Intuition tells me that everything I've suggested is likely wrong, but I really have the vague nature of law and legal mumbojumbo. I have no plans to enact any of the actions I've suggested; I'm simply looking for clarification. I apologize in advance if these questions have been asked/answered before, I tried searching, but these scenarios seem rather specific. Thanks in advance everyone.

SJgunguy24
01-07-2010, 8:39 PM
All you need is 1 lock to go through in order to get to your handgun. The trunk has a lock, then your GTG.
If your gun rides inside the car then you need to have a lock on the container that the handgun is in. You can have a lock on the case itself or have a lock on a range bag that contains the handgun. Make sure no loaded mags are attached to your handgun and no loaded chambers in a revolver.

pullnshoot25
01-07-2010, 9:33 PM
I wrote this for a guy on Yahoo. I am reposting it here....

----------------------------------

Here is the breakdown of the laws.

1) Open carry of a firearm, whether a long gun or handgun, is legal as long as the weapon is unloaded and you follow all the asinine and draconian rules. A comprehensive list can be had on http://californiaopencarry.org

2) Concealed carry of a long gun (anything with a barrel length of 16" or more and 26" OAL) either on your person or in your vehicle is completely legal, as long as it is, again, unloaded.

3) You can keep ammunition within the same case, strapped to the gun, in your console, on your belt anywhere except inserted into "a position from which it can readily be fired." The deciding case on this (People v. Clark) went so far as to say that rounds in a sidesaddle on a shotgun does not constitute "loaded." Thus, no rounds in the tube, loaded mags in a magwell, etc.

4) While there is evidence to suggest that carry of a long gun is legal even in the 1000' GFSZ, it is not recommended that one try carrying a long gun in a school zone. There is a whole legal argument for it but that is for another time and place.

5) CCW permits are hard to come by in most counties. Down here in San Diego (where I reside) they are not given to anyone unless you have a business, make a ton of money, have actually had an attempt taken on your life, are buttbuddies with the sheriff, etc.

(Vote Jay LaSuer!)

6) Exposed is exposed is exposed. Do not wear a jacket over a firearm or allow a shirt tail to even cover the handle as that is considered concealing in this state. Basically, use whatever holster you want as long as it is OWB and visible. A good rule of thumb is to see if the gun is visible on three sides.

7) Carrying a handgun in a car... there are several ways to do that

a) If you have a TRUNK, then your TRUNK is considered a locking container. Throw your guns in there, close it and peace out.

b) If you do NOT have a trunk (pickup truck, van, etc), then you need to have a LOCKED container. The language used is "secure, locking container." This can be anything from a backpack to a vault, as long as there is a lock and no finger can be stuck in and touch the gun and/or trigger (very silly, but many people have been arrested and charged for the "getting a finger" in thing. Carrying a handgun in a container where one can manipulate it even the slightest bit is considered carrying a concealed handgun.)

That said, it is completely legal to have your handgun in a locked gun bag sitting next to you on the front seat if you want and keeping it in a locked bag prevents you from running afoul of the GFSZ crap. You can also conceal the gun while in this locked bag anywhere in your vehicle.

c) If you decide to OPENLY CARRY your handgun in your car, you can just leave it on your front seat or on your dash. However, if you are within 1000' of a school you have to lock it in your secure container.

8) For LONG GUN carry, you can pretty much put it wherever and not have to worry about it. If you carry a long gun, I highly recommend just keeping it on the backseat with a blanket over it, in the trunk, under a seat, etc.

9) There is no strap requirements for holsters or whatever. Use whatever holster is legal.

10) To holster your gun, just step out, holster it and go on your way.

11) DO NOT CLIP CARRY YOUR KELTEC!

12) Modifying the barrel on your shotgun is fine, as long as the OAL is equal to or greater than 26" and the barrel length is at least 18" long.

13) Join Calguns.net to stay on top of the laws here. The guys over there (self included) know the score and all the laws backwards and forwards.

CARRY ON!

Librarian
01-07-2010, 9:33 PM
You have it correct.

Generally, trunk alone is sufficient. Separate locked case is convenient, as you note.

Unloaded gun in its own locked case can be anywhere in the vehicle.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

ChrisTKHarris
01-07-2010, 9:42 PM
I really need to get myself a lockable Pelican case for my handguns for times when I'm in my SUV instead of my car.

Lone_Gunman
01-07-2010, 9:55 PM
...very silly, but many people have been arrested and charged for the "getting a finger" in thing.

I'm sorry but this made me laugh really hard. Random, I know. If my siggy line wasn't pretty full it would be on it.

pullnshoot25
01-07-2010, 10:11 PM
I'm sorry but this made me laugh really hard. Random, I know. If my siggy line wasn't pretty full it would be on it.

Now that I look at it, it is pretty funny :)

Frosty
01-08-2010, 9:41 AM
Thanks for the clarification everyone; this stuff seems somewhat asinine, but the law is the law. I can kind of understand the "getting a finger" thing in the context of all the other laws, but if you can't keep it loaded, I don't see how being able to touch the gun/pull the trigger could matter that much. I guess it's just another thing to charge people with who may actually have ill intentions; it just sucks getting stuck in the crossfire.

bigwhitetruck
01-08-2010, 1:34 PM
Would a pickup with a tailgate that locks and a shell on it that also locks be considered a "locked container" like any trunk on any standard car?

SJgunguy24
01-08-2010, 6:32 PM
Would a pickup with a tailgate that locks and a shell on it that also locks be considered a "locked container" like any trunk on any standard car?

I had a pick up, all I did was slap a lock on my range bag and thats it.

smittty
01-27-2010, 9:16 PM
I've been told by LE in a Santa Barbara gun shop that a loaded magazine is considered a loaded handgun. A gun without a mag isn't loaded but a loaded mag without a gun is still considered a loaded gun.

Is this correct? Could it be a city ordnance?

Thanks,
Smitty

Librarian
01-27-2010, 9:33 PM
I've been told by LE in a Santa Barbara gun shop that a loaded magazine is considered a loaded handgun. A gun without a mag isn't loaded but a loaded mag without a gun is still considered a loaded gun.

Is this correct? Could it be a city ordnance?

Thanks,
Smitty

No. Completely wrong.

See the Wiki: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California

tombinghamthegreat
01-27-2010, 9:43 PM
I've been told by LE in a Santa Barbara gun shop that a loaded magazine is considered a loaded handgun. A gun without a mag isn't loaded but a loaded mag without a gun is still considered a loaded gun.

Is this correct? Could it be a city ordnance?

Thanks,
Smitty

FUD! http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

Do not take legal advise from the LE or DOJ since they are clearly not qualified to give out legal advise. The should answer all of your questions.

Cokebottle
01-27-2010, 9:50 PM
The magazine is a unique case.
Though "loaded" does not apply, "concealed" does when transporting on foot.
It has to do with the magazine being an integral part of the firearm.
If you are UOC, you cannot "pocket" the magazines... they too must be carried openly.

DedEye
01-27-2010, 9:52 PM
I just want you all to know that I hate you. (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#How_do_I_legally_transport_a_handgun.3F)

I've been told by LE in a Santa Barbara gun shop that a loaded magazine is considered a loaded handgun. A gun without a mag isn't loaded but a loaded mag without a gun is still considered a loaded gun.

Is this correct? Could it be a city ordnance?

Thanks,
Smitty

Far West or Goleta Valley? What Department? Do you remember their name?

hollabillz
01-27-2010, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the clarification everyone; this stuff seems somewhat asinine, but the law is the law. I can kind of understand the "getting a finger" thing in the context of all the other laws, but if you can't keep it loaded, I don't see how being able to touch the gun/pull the trigger could matter that much. I guess it's just another thing to charge people with who may actually have ill intentions; it just sucks getting stuck in the crossfire.

Do you really believe people who intend to use guns to murder, assault, rob, etc give a hoot (yay swear filter) about locking their guns up let alone keeping them unloaded? :rofl:

Cokebottle
01-28-2010, 5:01 AM
Do you really believe people who intend to use guns to murder, assault, rob, etc give a hoot (yay swear filter) about locking their guns up let alone keeping them unloaded? :rofl:
That's the problem.

Sadly, "ineffective" is not a legal argument for eliminating a law.

Lawmakers want the public to believe that guns do evil things of their own volition. That, and they apparently believe that every crime where a gun was used was an impulse crime that would not have taken place had the shooter had to take 5 seconds more to unlock and load a gun.

thefitter
04-01-2010, 4:58 PM
"(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not
limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm."

Is the key word "ATTACHED" to the firearm? Meaning obviously that a loaded mag in the mag well but no round chambered is still considered "LOADED".

Therefore is it accurate to assume that one of those combo gun rugs with a unloaded firearm on one side and 4 filled magazines in loops on the other side...locked in the trunk, is perfectly legal?

SLYoteBoy
04-01-2010, 5:14 PM
Ok , adding to the question here. Didnt see a cut and dry answer.

There are no school zones for miles around me , literally. I want to drive down the county road to/from friends and family's houses. I can have a pistol sitting next to me on the seat , as long as its unloaded and/or? the ammunition is in a locked container?

Example: Im driving down the road and my pistol is sitting on my passenger seat , empty mag in it , two loaded mags in my center console/glovebox/door pocket etc. legal or not?

GFSZ is not relevant to me.

NiteQwill
04-01-2010, 5:41 PM
Ok , adding to the question here. Didnt see a cut and dry answer.

There are no school zones for miles around me , literally. I want to drive down the county road to/from friends and family's houses. I can have a pistol sitting next to me on the seat , as long as its unloaded and/or? the ammunition is in a locked container?

Example: Im driving down the road and my pistol is sitting on my passenger seat , empty mag in it , two loaded mags in my center console/glovebox/door pocket etc. legal or not?

GFSZ is not relevant to me.

Without any schools around you (you better damn make sure NOTHING is within 1000' of you when traveling), yes, your scenario is legal.

SLYoteBoy
04-01-2010, 5:56 PM
alright. damn sure there is nothing GF withing 1000' of where im going to be traveling.

Skidmark
04-01-2010, 5:57 PM
I use the convenient blue plastic case for my SIG, with a cable lock through one of the eyes, as my car has no trunk. But it's just as convenient in a backpack, for when on bicycle or motorcycle. Just seems simple to have a readily-accessible locked container for any handgun that might get transported outside of the house.

Cokebottle
04-01-2010, 7:57 PM
Therefore is it accurate to assume that one of those combo gun rugs with a unloaded firearm on one side and 4 filled magazines in loops on the other side...locked in the trunk, is perfectly legal?
Correct.

Typical gun shop FUD that has been propagated for as long as I can remember is that the gun MUST be locked in the trunk, and the ammo must be locked in the passenger compartment.
That is completely false.

Glock22Fan
04-01-2010, 9:04 PM
Although locked in a trunk is legal, you must also consider what happens if you need to unlock the trunk while out and about. At that point, the firearm is within reach and unlocked.

Never heard of anyone getting cited for this, but it does seem to be a possibility.

Cases, such as the folding nylon ones that you can put a lock on tte zipper, are so cheap I really do not know why people do not use one whether the firearm is in the trunk or not. Why take the risk?

ChrisTKHarris
04-01-2010, 10:26 PM
The other reason why a nice Pelican case is cool is when you're at the range counter checking in. Open up the case and have your pistols displayed nicely. :)

kmoney168
04-04-2010, 12:46 PM
I keep mine in the trunk in a 50Cal ammo can with an eye bolt through the front so it can be locked as well. I'm sure that is fine enough and it was cheap enough.

tombinghamthegreat
04-04-2010, 1:13 PM
Example: Im driving down the road and my pistol is sitting on my passenger seat , empty mag in it , two loaded mags in my center console/glovebox/door pocket etc. legal or not?


You can drive down the road with a handgun/with the loaded mags right next to it since it would not be in violation of PC12031. You can UOC ect.

"(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not
limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm."



Also have to look at People v. Clark which defined the term attached as being put into a pisition to be fired from. So a shotgun can have shells attached as long as it is not in the tube.

calokie29
04-04-2010, 5:58 PM
Would a pickup with a tailgate that locks and a shell on it that also locks be considered a "locked container" like any trunk on any standard car?

I asked that question to local LEO here (Fresno) and they told me a locking shell was GTG.