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SteveH
01-07-2010, 6:51 PM
http://www.ocregister.com/news/rieck-227465-bertagna-police.html

Robert Bruce Rieck allegedly brandished his handgun at some recyclers. Has had an Orange county CCW permit since 2000.

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 7:39 PM
Sounds like a couple of people digging through trash might have made up a story to get the guy in trouble. It was night, he saw people possibly committing a crime and shined a flashlight at them. They drove across the street, probably yelled at him, and he drew his gun and told them to leave. Probably was scared. Then they made up the part about him firing a shot, since the police say there was no evidence of that, and they aren't charging him for it.

And apparently the guy is smart and staying silent, letting his lawyer handle it.

This is all speculation, which is all we will know until the facts come out...

But knowing the people who come around my shop digging for recyclables, I wouldn't feel too great if they drove at me and started telling me how they weren't doing anything wrong. ha. Wow, the article is REALLY written to judge the guy with the gun, and make the people doing the "recycling" look very innocent.

SANTA ANA – A business owner was arrested after he allegedly fired his weapon at a couple who were collecting cardboard to recycle, police said.

Robert Bruce Rieck was arrested Tuesday night after a man and a woman called police to report that a man pointed a gun at them and fired a shot, said Santa Ana police Cpl. Anthony Bertagna. Rieck was arrested on suspicion of felony assault with a firearm and brandishing a weapon. He was released Wednesday after posting bond, according to the Orange County Sheriff's Department's Web site.

The pair told police they were in the back of the Sear's outlet store at 500 W. Warner Ave. collecting cardboard to recycle when they noticed someone across the street pointing a flashlight at them, Bertagna said.

"They drove across the way to tell him they were not doing anything wrong and to say they were looking for recyclables," Bertagna said.

But when they approached the man – later identified as Rieck – they say he got out of his car and brandished a handgun, Bertagna said.

Rieck allegedly pointed the handgun at the man's head while they stayed in their car, he said.

The couple told officers Rieck fired a shot as they drove away, but Bertagna said no evidence was found. No one was injured.

Jim Amormino, a sheriff's department spokesman, said Rieck was issued a license to carry a concealed weapon in 2000 and was renewed with conditions.

Amormino said Santa Ana police informed them of the incident and they will launch a review to determine if he violated the conditions for carrying a concealed weapon.

"We have strict regulations and they will be enforced," Amormino said.

professorhard
01-07-2010, 7:43 PM
I hate those scavenger recycle roaches too. Don't go through other peoples trash.

pdq_wizzard
01-07-2010, 7:49 PM
this is why if you have a CCW and have to pull your gun you need to be the first to call the PoPo

your word / there word.......

SteveH
01-07-2010, 7:52 PM
If he didnt brandish his gun how did they even know he was a carrying one? Just a lucky guess by the dumpster divers?

The article is poorly written to say the least. What business does he own? The Sears or another business on the same complex? Says he was in his car a crossed the street..was he just driving home from work and decided to pistol point a couple of scavangers?

U2BassAce
01-07-2010, 8:04 PM
If he didnt brandish his gun how did they even know he was a carrying one? Just a lucky guess by the dumpster divers?

The article is poorly written to say the least. What business does he own? The Sears or another business on the same complex? Says he was in his car a crossed the street..was he just driving home from work and decided to pistol point a couple of scavangers?

With a little research the answers can be your's.

Too bad the OC Register does not do the same. ;)

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 8:07 PM
And I didn't assume he didn't BRANDISH the gun. If a car with a couple of the local meth heads digging through the trash here pulled up on me, and threatened me, I'd have my gun in my hand as well. A car is a deadly weapon. Maybe they were aimed at him.

riprap
01-07-2010, 8:15 PM
Based on the information in the article (which may be very different from reality)

I would not risk my ccw to protect some garbage that some lowlife wants to steal and sell for pennies on the pound.

Ill give the business owner the benefit of the doubt and assume no shots were fired, however brandishing was a stupid move. This reeks of the ccwer that can hardly wait to use his gun.

Kharn
01-07-2010, 8:19 PM
I would want something a little bigger than just a handgun for a car full of methheads (your typical overly ambitious recyclers after sunset ;) )

BigDogatPlay
01-07-2010, 8:20 PM
"They drove across the way to tell him they were not doing anything wrong and to say they were looking for recyclables," Bertagna said.

But they were doing something wrong... they were stealing. Taking recyclables from bins belonging to the garbage company is theft. There is a somewhat obscure state statute, and many towns are adopting ordinances.

That said, it's a misdemeanor at best. No reason for the permit holder to draw unless they were threatening him.

SteveH
01-07-2010, 8:39 PM
As annoying as the "canners" and "dumpster divers" can be, they actually perform a public service. By picking recyclables out of trash that would otherwise just go to the landfill. Put money back into the economy and save land fill space.

U2BassAce
01-07-2010, 8:47 PM
Based on the information in the article (which may be very different from reality)…

I would not risk my ccw to protect some garbage that some lowlife wants to steal and sell for pennies on the pound.

I’ll give the business owner the benefit of the doubt and assume no shots were fired, however brandishing was a stupid move. This reeks of the ccw’er that can hardly wait to use his gun.

Well the CCW holder has had his CCW since 2000. That is 10 years of no issues.

Does not reek of anything to me. (BTW I do not know this person)

Just saying....

We have a OCSD led by a leader who is clearly anti CCW. Things that make you go hmmmmmm........

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 8:52 PM
It really doesn't reek of anything. If you read the short article it says he lit them up with a flashlight, and they got back in their car and approached him in his car. We really don't know much else about the situation, but it's VERY possible he was startled / scared when they decided to approach him instead of leaving like most scum would.

Table Rock Arms
01-07-2010, 8:53 PM
Would have to get the full story. He could have pulled his gun out. Or they could have made a false accusation and it just turned out he actually had a gun so it looks bad for him. never know.

I actually know a guy who was accused of waving a gun at someone while driving. When the cops searched his car they found a gun. Problem is he never had a gun. Case was dropped because he was confirmed to be at work when the alleged incident took place, and the guy who made the call (from a prepaid cell phone that could not be traced) never came forward. the gun was either planted by the guy who tried to set him up, or the cops. This was in Orange County, so anything can happen.

U2BassAce
01-07-2010, 8:55 PM
As annoying as the "canners" and "dumpster divers" can be, they actually perform a public service. By picking recyclables out of trash that would otherwise just go to the landfill. Put money back into the economy and save land fill space.

Are you serious? Cities are required to have a recycling program in place. That can be separate containers or they have to sort it. One or the other.

joelogic
01-07-2010, 9:01 PM
As annoying as the "canners" and "dumpster divers" can be, they actually perform a public service. By picking recyclables out of trash that would otherwise just go to the landfill. Put money back into the economy and save land fill space.

The ones around me dig throw my recycle bin and make a mess of it. They are stealing from the city which raises my garbage bill. No one wins.

CenterX
01-07-2010, 9:03 PM
People lie about guns being pointed at them all the time. Decades ago I was in a gas station after midnight and a group approached me for change and when I reached behind my back to scratch myself one of the girls screech, "He has a gun - Oh No!" and took off in quick-time. The other two just walked off mumbling something to each other. I hung up the pump and split asap.
No gun, but you never know what may be next.
Too bad this guy was outed like this.

U2BassAce
01-07-2010, 9:05 PM
Would have to get the full story. He could have pulled his gun out. Or they could have made a false accusation and it just turned out he actually had a gun so it looks bad for him. never know.


Well it seems they made a false accusation of him discharging a firearm (according to the report). I can pretty much figure he did draw his gun. (though even that can't be proven) Now what caused him to draw his firearm will be a he/she said(the people that have no credibility) verse he said. Did they threaten his life and brandish something looking like a firearm? Knife? The vehicle? Who knows?

Back to the allegation of discharging a firearm. Won't be hard to find out if that happened I would suspect.

I figure this will hinge on whatever statements he made to LE if any.

SteveH
01-07-2010, 9:12 PM
My prediction: DA doesnt file charges due to lack of independant witnesses but the guy gets his CCW permit revoked.

TRICKSTER
01-07-2010, 9:15 PM
As annoying as the "canners" and "dumpster divers" can be, they actually perform a public service. By picking recyclables out of trash that would otherwise just go to the landfill. Put money back into the economy and save land fill space.

WRONG, they are stealing from us, the taxpayer. Most cities have recycling contracts with the trash companies. If they do not pick up the amount of recyclables required in the contract, all of our rates go up to cover the loss.

As far as the brandishing case goes, people accuse people of stuff all the time and embellish the story to get a quicker response from the police. It may have happened as reported, and then again it may not. Not enough info to come to a conclusion.

U2BassAce
01-07-2010, 9:39 PM
My prediction: DA doesnt file charges due to lack of independant witnesses but the guy gets his CCW permit revoked.

Well he had a CCW with restrictions. I assume he transports something of value for business. It was late at night. He was leaving his business. Two people roll up on him. Ask yourself "who should be in that alley at that moment"? The illegal scavengers or the business owner?

If this went down like I imagine it did.....then it would be a shame if he loses his CCW.

Especially considering the illegal scavengers (it seems) embellished their story to the point, they had to add, that he discharged his CCW at them.

Ron-Solo
01-07-2010, 9:41 PM
There's more that is not in this story than there is in the story. Not enough information to make any decision.

Roadrunner
01-07-2010, 9:53 PM
Two sides to this coin, one of them is true and the other is a lie. The one thing I am sure of is the pickers somehow knew he had a gun. How did they know, only the two parties can say for sure. Why he got into it with the pickers, suggests that he doesn't know how to pick his battles. I don't particularly like people going through my trash, but I'm not going to make an issue of it.

Dark Paladin
01-07-2010, 10:00 PM
I had to stop reading the silly comments at the OC Registrar. . . it was giving me headaches. . .

But I agree that there is more to this incident than the reporter spent the time researching. . .

Bill Carson
01-07-2010, 10:14 PM
Sounds like another one of Mike Carona's cronies that donated $1000 dollars to his campaign to get a CCW. Just like the jerk-off that pulled the gun on the guys on the golf course.

383green
01-07-2010, 10:40 PM
For all we know, he may have felt threatened and put his hand on the gun without ever breaking leather. Just because the thieves accused him of brandishing his gun and firing at them, that doesn't necessarily mean he even drew it.

AndrewMendez
01-07-2010, 10:41 PM
As annoying as the "canners" and "dumpster divers" can be, they actually perform a public service. By picking recyclables out of trash that would otherwise just go to the landfill. Put money back into the economy and save land fill space.

:rofl:

I think a couple people that go thru a public trash can are one thing, but a person going through both my recyclable trash can, and regular trash, is looking for problems. A house about 2 blocks from me was raided, (not sure on what charges) they found mail and credit card offers from almost 80% of the neighborhood. i knew the guy, I used to leave cans out for him, because I felt bad for him, until he was arrested, so in short, I would rather my trash stay in my can, if someone does not want to recycle, then thats their choice. Having someone go thru my trash without my permission, in my eyes, is stealing.

U2BassAce
01-07-2010, 10:53 PM
Sounds like another one of Mike Carona's cronies that donated $1000 dollars to his campaign to get a CCW. Just like the jerk-off that pulled the gun on the guys on the golf course.

:rolleyes:

Yeah great analogy. Someone running down a fairway of a golf course, waving a firearm in broad daylight is the same as someone alone in a back alley, behind their business in Santa Ana late at night.:p

Besides HUTCHENS got rid of all the Carona cronies right????;)

Joe
01-07-2010, 11:03 PM
My prediction: DA doesnt file charges due to lack of independant witnesses but the guy gets his CCW permit revoked.

this

AndrewMendez
01-07-2010, 11:06 PM
Even with brandishing, which I am assuming he did, who is to say that he did not think his life was in danger? The article stated, they drover over to him, did they want to invite him to starbucks with the money they where making from stealing?

Bill Carson
01-07-2010, 11:26 PM
yeah that was a bad analogy. I think there are still some Carona Cronies out there.

picasso
01-08-2010, 12:09 AM
This reeks of the ccwer that can hardly wait to use his gun.

Maybe the ccw'er is just trying to stop a possible crime. Maybe he thought they're (scavengers) dumping a dead body.

bodger
01-08-2010, 7:36 AM
Hard to tell from the article what the real facts are.
I live in Los Angeles on a fairly busy street and we have a lot of trash scavengers around here. And they are aggressive about their trash picking, which is against the law in LA and that is clearly marked on our trash containers.

I used to be altruistic and just let it go when I saw a scavenger on my property going through the trash. Up until my car truck was broken into and someone took a dump in my driveway.

I won't say on a public forum how I put a stop to this, but suffice to say that even though my cans are ten feet from the sidewalk, we don't get scavengers anymore.
My trash, my rules.

not-fishing
01-08-2010, 8:42 AM
I picked up a Utah CCW a few years ago because Sacramento County is a Will never Issue County. so I have to go to another state to carry

One thing I realized from the CCW class not spoken just my view of the judicial system

If someone sees my gun in the holster it may cost me $5,000 in legal fees.

If I pull the gun it will cost me $10,000 in legal fees.

If I fire the gun it will cost me $100,000 to $250,000 in legal fees.

So even in approved state I'm not sure as to why I got the CCW.

At 200+ lbs I'm better off carrying my cane.

SmokeJumper
01-08-2010, 8:57 AM
"We have strict regulations and they will be enforced," Amormino said.

Strict regulations regarding CCW holders ........ how about the "...no evidence there was a round fired..." statement? If it is part of the police report and they confiscated the gun, I would think that if no evidence is presented to prove the firing, the 'trash diggers' should be made to give a detailed description of the firing. If all don't agree ......... then it shouldn't be considered as having taken place. If it can be determined the gun had not been recently fired -- go after the trash-diggers for lying. Tough to do I know --- but these incidents tick me off.

If the guy had a permit since 2000, I would bet money if was going to brandish his weapon (point it at someones HEAD!), he would have done so by now. Sure hope they investigate BOTH sides of this story.

SO GLAD I departed California long ago! Miss seeing some friends - but hate the ridiculous laws and anti-good-people mentality.

CAL.BAR
01-08-2010, 10:04 AM
If he didnt brandish his gun how did they even know he was a carrying one? Just a lucky guess by the dumpster divers?

The article is poorly written to say the least. What business does he own? The Sears or another business on the same complex? Says he was in his car a crossed the street..was he just driving home from work and decided to pistol point a couple of scavangers?

Great questions... A better one is how does this guy still have an OC CCW considering the new sheriff revoking most of them.

CAL.BAR
01-08-2010, 10:07 AM
I picked up a Utah CCW a few years ago because Sacramento County is a Will never Issue County. so I have to go to another state to carry

One thing I realized from the CCW class not spoken just my view of the judicial system

If someone sees my gun in the holster it may cost me $5,000 in legal fees.

If I pull the gun it will cost me $10,000 in legal fees.

If I fire the gun it will cost me $100,000 to $250,000 in legal fees.

So even in approved state I'm not sure as to why I got the CCW.

At 200+ lbs I'm better off carrying my cane.

I don't know why you got it either? Why go to a state that you don't live in to get a permit you can't use where you live? Sounds like mall ninja to me. There is a vast difference between a person who needs to carry a firearm out of real fear for his/her safety and a guy you just wants to carry a firearm for. . . (well you can fill in the blank here)

SteveH
01-08-2010, 10:56 AM
Well he had a CCW with restrictions. I assume he transports something of value for business. It was late at night. He was leaving his business. Two people roll up on him. Ask yourself "who should be in that alley at that moment"?

There is no indication in the article that the CCW permit holder was on the way home from work, in the alley or had any business in the alley. It says he was in his car a crossed the street.

SteveH
01-08-2010, 10:59 AM
:rolleyes:

Yeah great analogy. Someone running down a fairway of a golf course, waving a firearm in broad daylight is the same as someone alone in a back alley, behind their business in Santa Ana late at night.:p

Besides HUTCHENS got rid of all the Carona cronies right????;)

There is no indication in the article that the alley is adjacent to or even in the same city as the CCW holders business. If you have some factual details otherwise please share them.

Billy Jack
01-08-2010, 11:05 AM
From reading these posts it would appear that some of you would have drawn down and killed Jean Valjean and thus deprived us of one of the greatest novels of all time, Les Miserables.

Folks, you may not draw your weapon to threaten or intimidate. When you draw your weapon, as a civilian, it must be because you fear for your life. Cardboard boxes, aluminum cans and yes, Silver Candlesticks do not rise to that.

I will grant you there may be elements that are not contained within the story, but if I were a Brady Bunch person, I would be laughing my head off and calling other members 'Todd, Buffy, come you just must see what they are posting'.

'How you are perceived can be more devastating than who you are.' Billy Jack

Billy Jack


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com


PS: This is where you go insane attacking the messenger.

SteveH
01-08-2010, 11:16 AM
What i learned on Calguns:

A FBI agent shouldnt shoot at fleeing violent felons. But a business owner is clear to gun point dumpster divers for swiping Sear's discarded cardboard. Oh, and UOC are at "war" with the police.

Glock22Fan
01-08-2010, 11:21 AM
I picked up a Utah CCW a few years ago because Sacramento County is a Will never Issue County. so I have to go to another state to carry

One thing I realized from the CCW class not spoken just my view of the judicial system

If someone sees my gun in the holster it may cost me $5,000 in legal fees.

If I pull the gun it will cost me $10,000 in legal fees.

If I fire the gun it will cost me $100,000 to $250,000 in legal fees.

So even in approved state I'm not sure as to why I got the CCW.

At 200+ lbs I'm better off carrying my cane.

It is perfectly legal to open carry in Utah. Indeed, you may open carry with one in the chamber if you have a Utah CCW (without the CCW, you need to leave the chamber empty, but you may have a loaded mag in the gun).

Other states (such as Texas, where concealed means totally concealed and there is no open carry) that recognize the Utah CCW might have other rules of course.

I haven't experienced this, but my Utah friends have told me that a MWG call would, unless the guy was waving it in the air or otherwise clearly involved in an illegal act, be laughed at.

Therefore, I don't see how someone seeing your holstered gun will cost you money unless you are in a state that forbids it.

RomanDad
01-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Anyone who takes a little time to do some internet digging, will see that there is much more to this shoddily written story. Such as, the location of the individual's business in relation to the location of the alleged crime. Also the nature of the area of where the alleged crime took place.

This individual MAY be in the wrong, but we don't know, and neither does Sandra Hutchens, yet she still sent her mouthpiece out to make hay out of what otherwise would have been an unreported incident. This is nothing but a political move by her to make a long time CCW holder appear in a negative light before any determination of the facts has been made.

This is indicative of her style that we've seen since she took office: ready, fire, aim.

U2BassAce
01-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Anyone who takes a little time to do some internet digging, will see that there is much more to this shoddily written story. Such as, the location of the individuals business in relation to the location of the alleged crime. Also the nature of the area of where the alleged crime took place.
This individual MAY be in the wrong, but we don't know, and neither does Sandra Hutchens, yet she still sent her mouthpiece out to make hay out of what otherwise would have been an unreported incident. This is nothing but a political move by her to make a long time CCW holder appear in a negative light before any determination of the facts has been made.

This is indicative of her style that we've seen since she took office: ready, fire, aim.

Thank you right on point!:);)

B Strong
01-10-2010, 1:14 PM
I know nothing about the circumstances of the incident, but we've had enough of a problem with cardboard "recyclers" that we generally restrict their entry to and activities on the property that I administer.

At this point, it's a toss-up as to what really happened, but I think there's a reasonable chance that the permit holder did brandish, and I would not be surprised in the least that the gleaners acted out in such a way to provoke the response - as noted, if the gun came out, the holder should have called in the incident asap.

RomanDad
01-10-2010, 2:19 PM
as noted, if the gun came out, the holder should have called in the incident asap.

1. How do you know he didnt?

2. By the "Terms of Service" of the issuance of his license he has five days to notify the Sheriff's Dept.


5). Should the license holder display or utilize the concealed weapon for which the license has been issued, the license holder shall notify the Commander of PSD within five days. This notice shall be in writing, and shall include the circumstances resulting in the use of the weapon.

VW*Mike
01-10-2010, 2:27 PM
I work in the Ishthole that is Santa Ana or "Staba-ana' as its recently been called in the local paper. The term "Ghetto" is endearing. Its a sanctuary city, ridden with crime. I know right where this happened. Its in one of the worst neighborhoods there is. I would have pulled my gun out too if I found someone rummaging around my business after dark.

youpock
01-10-2010, 3:01 PM
One of the recent comments on the actual article was from someone who supposedly works at that Sears or something and the guy pulled his flashlight on them - they tried to run him over with their car - he pulled the firearm..

Just my .02 but the police are going to have more sense than to take a one-sided statement from a "couple" collecting cardboard to recycle in the middle of the night.

It's always hard to get straight facts with all the bs media pulls.

a1c
01-10-2010, 3:07 PM
Wow, the article is REALLY written to judge the guy with the gun, and make the people doing the "recycling" look very innocent.

I completely disagree. The article is actually fairly neutral.

Meplat
01-10-2010, 4:03 PM
Are you serious? Cities are required to have a recycling program in place. That can be separate containers or they have to sort it. One or the other.

That is often honored in the breach. Lots of recyclable stuff goes in the trash, and they only complain if you put trash in the recycle bin, not vic versa. Not saying there are not a lot of tweakers out there.

devilinblack
01-10-2010, 8:55 PM
It is perfectly legal to open carry in Utah. Indeed, you may open carry with one in the chamber if you have a Utah CCW (without the CCW, you need to leave the chamber empty, but you may have a loaded mag in the gun).

Therefore, I don't see how someone seeing your holstered gun will cost you money unless you are in a state that forbids it.

Off topic, but here goes. When I took my Utah CCW class (in Utah) I was also told that if the weapon was not concealed you could be charged with brandishing. After doing a fair bit of research since then I have to agree with you. Loaded open carry is perfectly legal if you have a CCW permit so printing or your weapon not being well concealed is a non-issue.

Rwnielsen
01-10-2010, 9:12 PM
I don't know why you got it either? Why go to a state that you don't live in to get a permit you can't use where you live? Sounds like mall ninja to me. There is a vast difference between a person who needs to carry a firearm out of real fear for his/her safety and a guy you just wants to carry a firearm for. . . (well you can fill in the blank here)

no kidding

Doheny
02-27-2010, 11:10 PM
As of yet the guy with the CCW has not been to court. Either the DA isn't going to file or they're still investigating it.

Colt-45
02-27-2010, 11:14 PM
If shots were fired other people MUST HAVE heard them....

five.five-six
02-27-2010, 11:27 PM
a man and a woman called police to report that a man pointed a gun at them and fired a shot

see now, this is fishy... I don't seem em firing my weapon at someone and no one ends up in the hospital or worser




~~~ bla bla bla Sandra Hutchens, ~~bla bla bla ~~

This is indicative of her style that we've seen since she took office: ready, fire, aim. wut?, fire, ready

FTFY

Ca Patriot
02-27-2010, 11:39 PM
The only version of events is coming from the two dumpster divers and the police. I am certain the man with the CCW is well versed in the law and is remaining silent. At this point all we have are unfounded accusations by dumpster divers. Not the best source.
I am willing to bet money that the two dumpster divers have criminal records.
The police say there is no indication that shots were fired.
I sense a refusal to file charges in this case.

vrand
02-27-2010, 11:42 PM
Anyone who takes a little time to do some internet digging, will see that there is much more to this shoddily written story. Such as, the location of the individual's business in relation to the location of the alleged crime. Also the nature of the area of where the alleged crime took place.

This individual MAY be in the wrong, but we don't know, and neither does Sandra Hutchens, yet she still sent her mouthpiece out to make hay out of what otherwise would have been an unreported incident. This is nothing but a political move by her to make a long time CCW holder appear in a negative light before any determination of the facts has been made.

This is indicative of her style that we've seen since she took office: ready, fire, aim.

:notworthy:

CABilly
02-28-2010, 1:19 AM
They're lucky it wasn't a cop they drove toward. I imagine the questionable "one shot fired" story would be quite different.

383green
02-28-2010, 12:51 PM
I agree with dantodd's and Seesm's posts above.

Ca Patriot, using a weapon in self defense is about neutralizing a clear and present danger, not about killing somebody (even if that is a likely result of the type of force necessary to neutralize a dangerous threat). I suggest that you delete your post to avoid incriminating yourself if you ever do need to use any type of force in self defense, and that you also think long and hard about why not only writing what you wrote is wrong, but so is thinking it.

Pig Rifle
02-28-2010, 2:09 PM
"We don't shoot to kill, we shoot to stay alive." I read that somewhere on here I think. Good motto that sums it right up.

Swatguy10_15
02-28-2010, 6:20 PM
ohh patriot....really?

You fire youre weapon when you fear for your or someone elses life and/or fear of GREAT bodily injury, you only fire youre weapon when there is no percieved option of escape and youre being forced into defending yourself. And the part patriot needs to get. You fire youre weapon only when its the last resort and no other lesser form of force is feasible or available ,youe intention is not to kill the opponent.Youre intention is to stop the threat. To swiftly mitigate the issue. However you want to put it. Death of the subject posing the threat is merely a byproduct of him/her forcing you to use youre weapon to defend yourself. Any intent to simply kill. Wow. Youre definitely making the good gun owners look bad, you obviously have no clue as to how this works. When you put 7 pounds of pressure on a 6.5 pound trigger you damn well better be sure its the right decision. Especially in this state and its "legal system". Once the criminal sides done analyzing and tearing apart for months a decision you had to make in seconds, then the civil side gets to do the same. If you think that attorneys wont dig for comments like the one you made on here where they could show in a courtroom how you "were looking to kill" you obviously again, are clueless to the seriousness of this weapon business. May I recommend a nice airsoft weapon? Its likely a better bet for youre "modus operandi".

quick draw mcgraw
02-28-2010, 6:24 PM
I will not remove my post.
I stand by what I said. Its simple.
If I am forced to defend myself I will be sure I kill my target.
I have the RIGHT to use whatever force necesarry if I believe my life is in danger.


Way to start off your Calguns career! :kest:

QuarterBoreGunner
02-28-2010, 7:30 PM
This is a message from to CaPatriot from Chris, not from 'QuarterBoreGunner - calguns moderator' - speaking as a person that had to use deadly force to defend their lives, I'll tell you man to man, that you talk about using your firearm in that situation like a virgin talks about sex. A lot of enthusiasm and zero comprehension of what the realities are. I understand your desire to defend yourself, but I can tell you from absolutely the most personal experience... it ain't like that. PM me please and we can talk.

Ca Patriot
02-28-2010, 8:14 PM
Quarter - You know nothing about me. Dont pretend. Take your holier than thou attitude and give it to someone else. I dont need to hear it.

QuarterBoreGunner
02-28-2010, 8:15 PM
^Well then, good luck with that and if you ever have to use lethal force, good luck with that also.

BigDogatPlay
02-28-2010, 8:23 PM
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Darned shame, really.

383green
02-28-2010, 8:33 PM
I understand why certain posts (including one of mine) were deleted, but darn it, I thought I had a sigworthy line in there! :p

quick draw mcgraw
02-28-2010, 8:36 PM
Quarter - You know nothing about me. Dont pretend. Take your holier than thou attitude and give it to someone else. I dont need to hear it.


Nice! You are the perfect poster boy for the Brady Campaign and exactly the kind of person who does not need a CCW or any firearm for that matter!!

Good luck to you in prison, enjoy telling your cell mates how you "busted some caps in that dude's a**" 'cause he eyeballed you when he was askin' for some change.

Ca Patriot
02-28-2010, 8:49 PM
lol.