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jrr
01-07-2010, 4:03 PM
is it legal to have a forward pistol grip on an AR pistol? Why or why not.
I recall seeing that it was not, but I cannot remember why. I have tried searching, but nothing helpful comes up.
Thanks!

Gio
01-07-2010, 4:09 PM
Not legal, unless you have an AOW Stamp for it. It can be done for $300 or so via Out of State 07 FFL if I remember right. Pistols including your normal Glock cannot have a forward grip regardless, I do not know the codes or numbers for the rules but that is just what I know to be correct.

-Gio

gn3hz3ku1*
01-07-2010, 4:14 PM
felony unless you got it registered years ago...

dorkytom
01-07-2010, 4:23 PM
Can someone cite the exact section prohibiting this? This is the only section I see and it only applies to detachable mag... but I haven't looked that extensively

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

So i'm going to suggest it could possibly be legal if you have a bullet button installed you may be able to.... Don't take my word for it though... I'm just guessing based on a very brief search... There may be other sections of the law that prohibit it.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and
any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that
allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide
that encloses the barrel.

ke6guj
01-07-2010, 4:56 PM
Can someone cite the exact section prohibiting this? This is the only section I see and it only applies to detachable mag... but I haven't looked that extensively

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

So i'm going to suggest it could possibly be legal if you have a bullet button installed you may be able to.... Don't take my word for it though... I'm just guessing based on a very brief search... There may be other sections of the law that prohibit it.
.

statewise, you are correct. VFG's are only an issue in CA on semi-automatic detachable-mag'ed pistols. Any other pistol type, such as that with a BB, and CA doesn't regulate VFGs.

However, federally is where VFGs are an issue on all pistols. http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html

because of that, you need to get an AOW tax stamp, which is not that hard to get, you are legal federally, and just need to comply with the CA AW regs.

dorkytom
01-07-2010, 5:14 PM
Thanks for clearing that up!!!

plan-b
01-07-2010, 7:36 PM
VFGs... Very Fun Guns

turbochris
01-07-2010, 7:43 PM
is a no no

tay
01-08-2010, 8:04 AM
Follow-up question:

Is the Magpul AFG (Angled ForeGrip) considered a vertical grip:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4155240548_015e791a10.jpg

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Magpul%20AFG/IMG_9375.jpg

jrr
01-08-2010, 8:19 AM
According to DOJ that is a thumbhole stock.





Jk!:D

jrr
01-08-2010, 8:24 AM
Thanks for the info guys. I thought it had to do with Fed law, since the BB takes it outside of all the CA assault weapon regs.

Now, the question is...... how to get that AOW permit in CA.....

Actually, if I recall correctly a pistol gripped shotgun like the Mossberg persuader they sell at Big 5 is an AOW right?

Anybody want to chime in with the rules, Fed and CA, on what constitutes an AOW? I'll try searching that one myself, but having answers together in a thread is helpful.

jrr
01-08-2010, 8:44 AM
Ok, so the thread on legally owning a SBR/SBS/AOW indicates that AOW are not specifically regulated in CA, with the exception of "pen guns". So all one need do to get a VFG on a AR or Ak pistol is get the NFA approval and pay the tax. Does that sound about right?

Now, this is ignoring whether its worth paying 200 dollars in taxes to put a VFG on what is essentially a fun toy (a mag-locked AR pistol is hardly a practical defensive weapon IMHO). But, apparently it can be done. And frankly, if I had more money I'd probably do it just to piss of Dianne. :43:

Cokebottle
01-08-2010, 9:03 AM
Actually, if I recall correctly a pistol gripped shotgun like the Mossberg persuader they sell at Big 5 is an AOW right?
Nope... even with the 18.5" "Home defense" barrel, the OAL is still greater than 26". It is still a "Shotgun".

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the info guys. I thought it had to do with Fed law, since the BB takes it outside of all the CA assault weapon regs.

Now, the question is...... how to get that AOW permit in CA.....

Actually, if I recall correctly a pistol gripped shotgun like the Mossberg persuader they sell at Big 5 is an AOW right?
No, the PG-only "shotguns" are not AOWs. If they were AOWs, it would be illegal for Big5 to sell them. They can be used as a host gun to make an AOW. If the barrel was cut down to <16", it would then be considered a handgun with a smoothbore barrel, and therefore an AOW.

Ok, so the thread on legally owning a SBR/SBS/AOW indicates that AOW are not specifically regulated in CA, with the exception of "pen guns". So all one need do to get a VFG on a AR or Ak pistol is get the NFA approval and pay the tax. Does that sound about right?
Yup, either get CLEO sign-off or set up a trust, and the AOW tax stamp should be shall issue by the feds.

tacticalcity
01-08-2010, 10:19 AM
Follow-up question: Is the Magpul AFG (Angled ForeGrip) considered a vertical grip:

Most people say it's not a "pistol grip" and therefore should be legal. A few people say it is not legal simply for being a "grip". Nobody really knows. It is a new concept and new design. So there is no way to know where a Cop, DA, Judge would fall on this one. I would hate to be the test case. Yet I would love to have one on my AR pistol.

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 10:23 AM
Most people say it's not a "pistol grip" and therefore should be legal. A few people say it is not. Nobody really knows. It is a new concept. I would hate to be the test case.+1. I'd hate to be the test case.

Remember, the federal rule isn't that it has a second pistol grip, but that by using the VFG, the firearm is now designed to be fired with two hands, which takes it out of the definition of a pistol. Since it is no longer a pistol, then it is considered an AOW.

jrr
01-08-2010, 10:45 AM
Thanks for clarifying the Shotgun question.

Why is CLEO sign off needed for AOW if they are not regulated? Is it part of the ATF forms like it is for getting a C&R?

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 10:53 AM
Why is CLEO sign off needed for AOW if they are not regulated? Is it part of the ATF forms like it is for getting a C&R?

AOWs are regulated, not in CA, but they are federally. The CLEO sign-off is a federal requirement, or you use the trust/corp exemption to the sign-off.

Cokebottle
01-08-2010, 11:10 AM
However, federally is where VFGs are an issue on all pistols. http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html
I have seen it posted on here that a 2-point sling results in the forward sling mount being considered a VFG. Is this accurate, just someone being careful, or complete FUD?

ke6guj
01-08-2010, 11:15 AM
I think it is FUD, but I haven't heard about people saying 2-point slings would make it an AOW. I think the conversation has been more about those small 1-point 5" slings that are mounted to the muzzle of a MAC-10 possibly making it an AOW. And even then, I think it might be FUD. I've heard that for years, but have never seen anybody offer up an ATF letter/ruling stating that to the public or them informing a manufacturer that they were making AOWs by including the 1-point sling.