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99medic
01-07-2010, 6:41 AM
I did the search and did not find anything on this scenario.

If a friend or relative comes over to visit from a free state and brings say a non approved pistol, to go target shooting.

Somehow he or she decides to sell it to me. Would a PPT be legal?

Vin496
01-07-2010, 6:47 AM
I did the search and did not find anything on this scenario.

If a friend or relative comes over to visit from a free state and brings say a non approved pistol, to go target shooting.

Somehow he or she decides to sell it to me. Would a PPT be legal?

Only if they are you Father/Mother or Grandparent. No brothers,sisters,cousins,aunt,uncles or friends. It has to be a direct relative.

Just to make it complete it could also be a child, but this probably wouldn't apply to many.

Oh and by the way it wouldn't be a PPT, it would be a transfer, and as such the FFL is free to charge what they want for the transfer(usually around $75), and the 1 gun in 30 day rule would apply.

Librarian
01-07-2010, 9:24 AM
Vin 496 has it, but just for background, "PPT" has a special meaning in California. As implemented in the DROS software (but arguably not as specified in law), only participants with California identification can use it.

In CA, interstate transfers, which are determined by the respective states of residence of the parties, not the geographic location of the gun, must go through a CA FFL. Unless the CA buyer is exempt (primarily LEO), handguns must be on the Roster.

So, non-Roster handguns are right out, unless it's an intrafamily transfer - because intrafamily transfers are exempt from the Roster requirement, but not the interstate FFL requirement.

wildhawker
01-07-2010, 9:30 AM
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/What_is_an_INTRAFAMILY_TRANSFER%3F

bwiese
01-07-2010, 9:43 AM
True PPTs from outside CA are technically legal, but are adminstratively banned by DOJ BoF thru DROS system implementation & requirement of CA ID by seller/provider. Thus this would have to be an ordinary transfer, not a California PPT, and the handgun would have to be Rostered (or exempt dimensionally-compliant single-action revolver or dimensionally-compliant single-shot pistol).

If CGF weren't attacking the Roster in whole, we'd look at fixing this.

Now, if your parent, child, grandparent or grandchild [and ONLY these specific relationships!] came here with a handgun, they could transfer it to you at a CA FFL via the intrafamily transfer exemption to Rostering. Friends, uncles, sisters, etc. don't count unfortunately.

djleisure
01-07-2010, 10:19 AM
Now, if your parent, child, grandparent or grandchild [and ONLY these specific relationships!] came here with a handgun, they could transfer it to you at a CA FFL via the intrafamily transfer exemption to Rostering. Friends, uncles, sisters, etc. don't count unfortunately.
Does this work with a step-parent as well? Can my step-father (legally married to my mother) transfer a handgun to me through the intramalial process?

Librarian
01-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Does this work with a step-parent as well? Can my step-father (legally married to my mother) transfer a handgun to me through the intramalial process?

Why not have your mom give it to you instead?

The gun is either community property already, so she could do that without specific transfer, or step-dad could transfer it to her specifically; that would mean 2 fees (dad-mom, mom-you), but $38 isn't usually a barrier.

Glock22Fan
01-07-2010, 10:36 AM
Does this work with a step-parent as well? Can my step-father (legally married to my mother) transfer a handgun to me through the intramalial process?

This is thinking out loud, but the provision is that a step-father is only truly a child's legal father if the step-father legally adopts the child.

Therefore, my guess is that if you were adopted by your step-father, then yes, but otherwise probably no.

OTOH, your step-father could transfer to your mother and she to you.

Oh, Librarian types faster than me :D

CSDGuy
01-07-2010, 10:37 AM
Does this work with a step-parent as well? Can my step-father (legally married to my mother) transfer a handgun to me through the interfamalial process?
Most likely not, unless your step-parent adopted you. That would legally establish a parent-child relationship between you. I'm not entirely certain that your mother marrying someone that isn't also your parent establishes that same parent-child relationship.

Now if your mother was able to take legal possession, THAT would qualify for the interfamilial exception. You'd then have to find an FFL who would be aware, and willing to, process the transfer (if a handgun) as a roster exempt transaction.

Make sense? No? Well, this is California...

CSDGuy
01-07-2010, 10:43 AM
As for an out-of-state relative thing as the OP was asking about, it would be considered a transfer as far as the BATFE is concerned, as the "seller" is not from the same state, an FFL is required. In theory, as far as the State woul be concerned, it'd be just another PPT, but California wants PPT's to be just between CA residents only. Otherwise, out of state PPT's would be an easy way around "the roster".

djleisure
01-07-2010, 10:51 AM
Thanks for all the responses - I find it kind of strange that it wouldn't include step-parents and I'm curious what the actual PC says regarding intrafamlial transfers. Does it specifically say "only blood or legally adopted parents"? I'll see if I can track it down. The only reason I'm asking is because my mother is "gun averse" and although I could probably just talk her into buying an off-roster gun for me (she lives in Oregon/Arizona) I know my step-father would be happy to do it - sort of a bonding thing...

Oh well, thanks again for all the great responses!

steadyrock
01-07-2010, 10:56 AM
What if the OP's situation were reversed, and he was traveling to another state to receive a handgun from his parent/grandparent, who could not travel to CA due to health reasons? How would he best facilitate that?

navyinrwanda
01-07-2010, 10:59 AM
Is there a list of FFLs who are familiar with (and happy to perform) interstate intrafamiliy PPTs of non-rostered handguns?

djleisure
01-07-2010, 11:09 AM
Is there a list of FFLs who are familiar with (and happy to perform) interstate intrafamiliy PPTs of non-rostered handguns?
All of them should be able to do it, but remember it's not technically a PPT, so they can charge more than the standard $35 PPT DROS fee.

Librarian
01-07-2010, 11:15 AM
Thanks for all the responses - I find it kind of strange that it wouldn't include step-parents and I'm curious what the actual PC says regarding intrafamlial transfers. Does it specifically say "only blood or legally adopted parents"? I'll see if I can track it down. The only reason I'm asking is because my mother is "gun averse" and although I could probably just talk her into buying an off-roster gun for me (she lives in Oregon/Arizona) I know my step-father would be happy to do it - sort of a bonding thing...

Oh well, thanks again for all the great responses!

The part you're interested in is :(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means
any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members for the long explanation.

navyinrwanda
01-07-2010, 11:37 AM
Is there a list of FFLs who are familiar with (and happy to perform) interstate intrafamiliy PPTs of non-rostered handguns?All of them should be able to do it, but remember it's not technically a PPT, so they can charge more than the standard $35 PPT DROS fee.
I understand that any FFL should be able to do an interstate intrafamily transfer, but practical experience has shown that many don't know how or simply refuse to do them. Many simply refuse to accept any firearm directly from an individual, either intra- or interstate.

So I'd really appreciate pointers to FFLs who are willing and happy to help with these transfers -- specifically FFLs in the SF Bay Area.