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View Full Version : muzzle brakes and flash supressors - help


glock_this
12-15-2005, 5:12 PM
so, are these combined into 1? can you get a muzzle brake that is a flash supressor (or vice versa)? or do you just stack them onto each other independantly? please educate me on them and the pros and cons. I can see the use for both, but I know there are issues and wonder if either is even needed on an AR?

rkt88edmo
12-15-2005, 7:16 PM
Generally speaking you can have one of the two attributes done well, but not both. A really good FS will be a marginal brake and a really good MB will probably not be that great a FS.

BigAL
12-15-2005, 7:18 PM
Flash suppressors are very different from muzzle brakes. You do not stack one on the other. Muzzle brakes usually increase flash signature while trying to eliminate muzzle rise by redirecting gases exiting the barrel. Flash supressors are designed to do just that, eliminate the flash when the bullet exits the barrel. Some flash suppresors have a closed bottom, which can act to redue muzzle climb a bit, but they are nowhere near as effective a muzzle brakes in reducing climb. I have shot ARs with muzzle brakes that were so effective the gun recoiled down. All my ARs come with flash suppresors as muzzle climb on ARs is not that bad.

Here is my Phantom 5C2 flash suppresor
http://members.cox.net/abussard/IMG_0070.JPG

You can see here that it has a closed port on the bottom. It also helps reduce dirt that gets kicked up when shooting prone.
http://members.cox.net/abussard/IMG_0071.JPG

PanzerAce
12-15-2005, 7:39 PM
muzzle brake = good
flash supressor = bad

untill your AR lower is declared an AW, thats all you need to know :P

truthfully though, I dont think there is really much of a difference.

glock_this
12-15-2005, 8:31 PM
just found this interesting series of posts about both of these items http://www.snipercountry.com/hottips/FlashHider.htm - seems like a bit of angst for brakes

anyway, I see all kinds of different configurations for flash supressors. what gives? is there really any one proven solid design?

bu-bye
12-15-2005, 9:21 PM
The Lavang Linear Comp works great as a FS but its a brake. Check it out...

http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=GS-01

BigAL
12-16-2005, 5:23 AM
just found this interesting series of posts about both of these items http://www.snipercountry.com/hottips/FlashHider.htm - seems like a bit of angst for brakes

anyway, I see all kinds of different configurations for flash supressors. what gives? is there really any one proven solid design?

Look here.

http://www.silencertests.com/flash.htm

delloro
12-16-2005, 7:47 AM
the levang is 22mm OD so its a grenade launcher, not allowed in CA.

a MB is not needed on an AR, but they look better than a bare muzzle, as the AR was designed with a FS. muzzle flash can be considerable with AR ammo, so a FS is nice. certain ammo does not flash much, though, so they are not really necessary.

I would rather have a FS than a MB, and certain MBs beat nothing, but nothing will do just fine.

the combo units are not seen often on military weapons. if the military doesn't need it, I sure don't.

BigAL
12-16-2005, 1:46 PM
Muzzle breaks and flash suppresors also serve to protect the muzzle crown from getting dinged up.

bu-bye
12-16-2005, 2:02 PM
the levang is 22mm OD so its a grenade launcher, not allowed in CA.


Wrong. I checked it myself. Its legal.

delloro
12-16-2005, 2:33 PM
Wrong. I checked it myself. Its legal.

wrong it's not 22mm OD or wrong you can't have 22mm OD muzzle attachments?

bu-bye
12-16-2005, 3:03 PM
The OD is 25mm and I spoke with DPMS about it and they said it was looked into and is not considered to be a grenade launcher. Its cool to buy and use ;) .

delloro
12-17-2005, 6:51 PM
The OD is 25mm and I spoke with DPMS about it and they said it was looked into and is not considered to be a grenade launcher. Its cool to buy and use ;) .

I wanted to get one during the ban, but was told they were 22mm. glad to hear that is not so.

JAFGO
12-17-2005, 7:41 PM
I dislike muzzle brakes so much that I registered my M1A as an AW per SB23 rather than remove the flash suppressor and install a muzzle brake. Too flippin' obnoxiously noisy with a muzzle brake.

Like dellorro says, a muzzle brake is not needed on an AR. They did not come into vogue on ARs until after the '94 fed AW ban. After the ban, AR fanatics wanted something to hang off the end of the barrel of post-ban guns for cosmetic reasons and the only legal "something" was a muzzle brake. People bought 'em mainly for looks.

glock_this
12-17-2005, 9:01 PM
yeah, the more research I do and read, the more i am seeing that a flash supresor is not bad, but muzzle brakes on an AR are not needed and can cuase more issues than benefits.

glock_this
12-18-2005, 7:14 AM
hey TT - ever heard a muzzle brake that was not a "Quiet Control Muzzle Brake" - I would be curious what you thought about the sound difference. seems a muzzle brake would be great to reduce recoil and be able to reset for the next shot faster and thus, make it a tigther pattern in a quicker tactical setting. but what I read elsewhere (MUCH louder sound output - even banned at some ranges - and possible larger flash profile) I opted to pass on it as I keep reading the AR15 is pretty light on recoil anyway.

glock_this
12-28-2005, 6:59 AM
Here is my Phantom 5C2 flash suppresor

so, why did you select the 5C2 over the 5C1 or their YHM-28 Original?

Also, what is the length difference your Phantom and the standard A2?

Charliegone
12-28-2005, 11:22 AM
I don't know why we even have a law on grenade launchers, ...its just sooo stupid...:rolleyes:

icormba
12-28-2005, 11:29 AM
The 5C2 is modeled after the original Phantom flash suppressor with the "serrated" front end. The marketing spiel was that the serrated edges allowed the rifle to be used as a hand to hand weapon: the edges being sharp enough to cut if you decided thrust the muzzle into someone like a bayonet

i.e. another use for the Stoll STG-58 combo device! ;)
...to bad the other 1/4 use is banned here.
(1/4 flash hidder, 1/4 wire-cutter, 1/4 GL, 1/4 stabbie stabbie implement)

glock_this
12-28-2005, 12:02 PM
The bottom of the C2 is closed off while the C1 has slots evenly spaced around the circumference.

The closed bottom takes after that of the M16A2 flash suppressor which was designed to minimize dust kicked up from the ground by the muzzle blast while the operator was lying prone.

If you recall, the M16A2 was in development during the late 70's and early 80's. The Pentagon think tanks predicted that the Soviet Union or one of it's Arab military clients would try to make a move on the oil fields in the region. With the fall of the Shah of Iran, our staunchest ally in the region, US troops would be fighting in the dusty deserts.

With the bottom closed, the M16A2 and 5C2 flash suppressors also compensate for muzzle climb in full auto.

The 5C2 is modeled after the original Phantom flash suppressor with the "serrated" front end. The marketing spiel was that the serrated edges allowed the rifle to be used as a hand to hand weapon: the edges being sharp enough to cut if you decided thrust the muzzle into someone like a bayonet (Problem some said was that you then had a plug of flesh blocking the bore). At some point, YHM decided they were just going to offer unserrated models. Enough people complained, so they reintroduced it.

The A2 flash suppressor is 1.75" and the 5C2 is 2.25"

so TT - if you were looking at the 5C1 or the stock A2 - is it even worth it to you? I have seen some visual night shots (see link elsewhere in this post) that shows the Phantom does a heck of a lot better flash supression than the stock A2 - so it seems it to me, but adds 1/2" in barrel length.

DrjonesUSA
12-28-2005, 12:41 PM
BigAL:

Just out of curiosity, what's a guy from Louisiana doing on a CA message board?

Glad to have ya, just wonderin..... :)

edbon9
12-28-2005, 3:11 PM
Just out of curiosity, what's a guy from Louisiana doing on a CA message board?

Glad to have ya, just wonderin..... :)

BigAl is originally from the bay area, I think he got a job dj'ing or doing research in the LA swamps :) or so I hear..:D

glock_this
12-28-2005, 3:49 PM
The Phantom's do a good job of diffusing the muzzle blast--I've seen it--or barely seen it--with my own eyes. The added 1/2" is great when you have a 14.5" M4 barrel that needs to be brought up to 16" with a permanently affixed (pinned and welded per ATF) muzzle device. The A2 isn't long enough.

nice. mine will already be 16", so not excited about going over by adding a Phantom. still, is it better than the stock A2?