PDA

View Full Version : CCW Success!!!


3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 1:10 PM
Just wanted to post the good news that I was approved and have now RECEIVED my CA CCW in Sacramento County. As a CA real estate broker, my "just cause" is the fact I often collect rents in cash and I serve eviction notices in rural parts of the county. It took 5 months to get approval and then about a month and a half to process everything once my class completion/shooting qualification was turned in.

indetrucks
01-06-2010, 1:11 PM
You Lucky SOB!

steadyrock
01-06-2010, 1:12 PM
Congratulations! Now go get some nachos and ammo at Walmart, and enjoy your newfound freedom to shepherd your responsibility.

If you have not yet, you may want to take a gander at www.calccw.com - lots of useful information over there as well, specifically regarding CCW in California.

ELEVENTH HOUR
01-06-2010, 1:12 PM
Big Congrats! Wish it was the same way here in LA county...

Fjold
01-06-2010, 1:14 PM
Congratulations,

I'll PM you the top secret codes and video of the secret handshake. :D

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 1:16 PM
Thanks for the link Steadyrock. I'll check that out.

I've written letters to the assemblymen on the public safety committee considering AB 357. Don't know if it has any chance of passing- or even getting out of committee- but I really wish CA was a must issue state!

gotgunz
01-06-2010, 1:16 PM
This is not possible! Everybody on Calguns knows that ccw's are not available and the only alternative is UOC!

I call B.S. !!!!


LOL! Congrats on the rice paper.

paul0660
01-06-2010, 1:34 PM
so, how and what are you carrying? and........congrats.

demnogis
01-06-2010, 1:37 PM
Congrats!

Get it printed on goldenrod paper!

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 1:39 PM
Any restrictions printed on the LTC?

spegull03
01-06-2010, 1:44 PM
Are there any work-only restrictions since you used employment as "good cause?"

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 1:49 PM
Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school, while consuming alcohol, or in an establishment that primarily serves alcohol. I have 3 boys, so I pick them up from school at the corner now, instead of going in the parking lot. Those are the only restrictions.

For every day carry, I have a holster purse, in which I carry a S&W 340pd with laser grip. That's the same gun that I keep in my bedroom at night...

I also have an M&P 9mm that I sometimes carry in a holster. I'm not a big gal (5' 2", 125 lbs), so it depends on what I'm wearing if I can carry on my hip or not. I much prefer to carry on my hip, but I definitely keep better track of my purse now that my gun is in it ;-)

kf6tac
01-06-2010, 2:05 PM
Wait a second, did they say why you can't carry within 1000 feet of a school? I thought those with concealed carry licenses fall within one of the exceptions to the Gun Free School Zone laws.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 2:06 PM
No, they didn't say, but they also warned us about that in the CCW class I had to take. You can't carry within 1000 ft.

kf6tac
01-06-2010, 2:10 PM
Hmmm, maybe it's not an exception. My memory has been letting me down in the past 24 hours.

Merle
01-06-2010, 2:11 PM
Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school, while consuming alcohol, or in an establishment that primarily serves alcohol. I have 3 boys, so I pick them up from school at the corner now, instead of going in the parking lot. Those are the only restrictions.

How far is the corner? 1000' from the school property is several blocks.

tango-52
01-06-2010, 2:14 PM
No, they didn't say, but they also warned us about that in the CCW class I had to take. You can't carry within 1000 ft.

Is it specifically written on your rice-paper license that schools are prohibited? if not, they were just blowing smoke. ;)

lowracer
01-06-2010, 2:14 PM
Congratulations! As you go about your day while carrying, it only seems like everyone knows you are packing. They're really clueless.

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 2:14 PM
Did they simply verbally state that you can't carry within 1000' of a school, or was it written on your permit as a restriction?

Because if that's a restriction, your permit is pretty much worthless - 1000' from a school covers most of any urban residential area, because there are schools everywhere.

They may have been warning you about the Federal 1000' limit which actually doesn't apply unless the gun is affecting interstate commerce, however. That is largely irrelevant.

The others are correct that as a CCW permit holder, you are exempt from 626.9 and are thus able to carry within a school zone in CA unless your permit was actually written with this restriction.

I fear that cross-polination with open carry may have destroyed the validity of this CCW if that's actually written in.

wkd4496
01-06-2010, 2:15 PM
congrats!:]

bigcalidave
01-06-2010, 2:17 PM
Wow it would be useless if CCW was restricted to GFSZ 1000' as well... Might as well concede that you don't have a CCW. What's written on the paper is all that matters in CA. If this is the kind of game sac county is playing there needs to be a lot more work done.

Glock22Fan
01-06-2010, 2:18 PM
I think that school thing may be a local "printed on the CCW, that makes it legal" restriction. If it was a state wide restriction, it wouldn't need to be on the license itself.

Still, very silly though.

BTW, Indetrucks, I think SOB is inaccurate if all the other clues are noted :)

kf6tac
01-06-2010, 2:20 PM
Did they simply verbally state that you can't carry within 1000' of a school, or was it written on your permit as a restriction?

Because if that's a restriction, your permit is pretty much worthless - 1000' from a school covers most of any urban residential area, because there are schools everywhere.

They may have been warning you about the Federal 1000' limit which actually doesn't apply unless the gun is affecting interstate commerce, however. That is largely irrelevant.

The others are correct that as a CCW permit holder, you are exempt from 626.9 and are thus able to carry within a school zone in CA unless your permit was actually written with this restriction.

I fear that cross-polination with open carry may have destroyed the validity of this CCW if that's actually written in.

You know, now that I'm reading 626.9 again, I can't find the exception in there for CCW holders.

tango-52
01-06-2010, 2:26 PM
You know, now that I'm reading 626.9 again, I can't find the exception in there for CCW holders.

From CalCCW's FAQ:
http://www.calccw.com/Forums/where-can-t-i-carry/922-can-i-carry-school-university.html

PC 626.9Cal PC

Quote:
Penal Code Section 626.9
a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.

(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm under any of the following circumstances: [...]

(4) When the person is exempt from the prohibition against carrying a concealed firearm pursuant to subdivision (b), (d), (e), or (h) of Section 12027.[...]

(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

And
USC TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 44 922

Quote:
USC 18 I 44 922

(q)(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm--
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
[OR -- if you don't have a CCW]
(iii) that is--
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

NiteQwill
01-06-2010, 2:27 PM
You know, now that I'm reading 626.9 again, I can't find the exception in there for CCW holders.
...
(k) This section does not require that notice be posted regarding
the proscribed conduct.
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision
(e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

Hanniballs
01-06-2010, 2:28 PM
So is it printed on the license?

fd15k
01-06-2010, 2:28 PM
You know, now that I'm reading 626.9 again, I can't find the exception in there for CCW holders.

(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision

this ?

paul0660
01-06-2010, 2:28 PM
CCW is legal in school zones, as Tango-52 points out. The OP's firearms instructor needs some instructing.

kf6tac
01-06-2010, 2:30 PM
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision

this ?

Yep, that. All the words start to run together once you read so much in one day. Thanks (to you and the others).

IrishPirate
01-06-2010, 2:30 PM
Congrats! From what i hear you're one of the elite few in Sac county! I would do all the legal leg work you can to find out if CCW is also prohibited from carrying 1000' from schools because as others have stated, school zones are everywhere. as a real estate agent you probably have a fairly good idea of where schools zones are for listings and all, but how many times do you show multiple houses to one couple and have to drive around schools because they want to see what the neighborhood looks like? If you're anything like my RA you need to make alot of U-turns because of crappy directions on the listing which may warrant a traffic stop if you're not careful/lucky.

I believe that a CCW is a state permit so what goes in one county holds true for all, the only thing that the county has control over is "just cause" and number of firearms on the permit as far as i know, but i've been wrong once before. Do the legal leg work and be sure to CYA just incase.

EDIT:I'm a slow typer.....tango-52 nailed it! i'd print that out and keep it in your purse. very nicely done tango!!

paul0660
01-06-2010, 2:38 PM
No, they didn't say, but they also warned us about that in the CCW class I had to take. You can't carry within 1000 ft.

It's not printed on the license.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 2:46 PM
Yes, it's actually written on the back of the permit.

The corner is about 3 blocks from the school.

I will have to research some more...

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 2:49 PM
Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school, while consuming alcohol, or in an establishment that primarily serves alcohol.

If it's not printed on you license it bunk. Feel free to carry into the school. You're exempt from 626.9.

The other issues I won't comment on for now as I don't want you to be the guinea big

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 2:50 PM
Yes, it's actually written on the back of the permit.

The corner is about 3 blocks from the school.

I will have to research some more...

What does it say exactly?

Flopper
01-06-2010, 2:55 PM
It's not printed on the license.

How do you know this isn't printed on her license?

Individual CCW's permits can and do have special restrictions printed on them.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 2:57 PM
Here is my understanding- of course, I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll correct me- but I've talked to TWO CCW instructors about it...

According to state LAW, I am exempt from the 1000 ft rule because I hold a valid CCW. However, each county also has their own ordinances- it's not a law, but it is a restriction on the CCW that I cannot carry there. Therefore, if I violated it, I cannot be arrested for it (I am not violating the law) but I can have my permit pulled for violating the county's rule...

What it says EXACTLY is the following: "not valid within 1000' of any school/if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."

geeknow
01-06-2010, 3:03 PM
[QUOTE=3boyzmom;3599663] if QUOTE]

this is pretty much the only word there that matters.....:D

congrats. i sincerely hope that you never need it.

tango-52
01-06-2010, 3:04 PM
Here is my understanding- of course, I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll correct me- but I've talked to TWO CCW instructors about it...

According to state LAW, I am exempt from the 1000 ft rule because I hold a valid CCW. However, each county also has their own ordinances- it's not a law, but it is a restriction on the CCW that I cannot carry there. Therefore, if I violated it, I cannot be arrested for it (I am not violating the law) but I can have my permit pulled for violating the county's rule...

What it says EXACTLY is the following: "not valid within 1000' of any school/if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."

Your understanding is correct. It is extremely unfortunate that the Sheriff chose to put that outrageous restriction on your CCW. It makes it practically worthless when in an urban setting.

fd15k
01-06-2010, 3:06 PM
So I guess that's their new tactic to deny us right to carry ?

professorhard
01-06-2010, 3:07 PM
:useless:

You profile one is too small! Congrats on the CCW sucks about the school thing tho

Joe
01-06-2010, 3:11 PM
congrats!

shark92651
01-06-2010, 3:17 PM
Your understanding is correct. It is extremely unfortunate that the Sheriff chose to put that outrageous restriction on your CCW. It makes it practically worthless when in an urban setting.

Not to mention that the OP's own children are now in more danger because she has a CCW and they have to walk a couple blocks from the school rather than having her pull right up front and pick them up. The county considers your possession of a CCW (despite the clean record and background check) to be a bigger danger to the children than having them walk 1,000 ft away from the safety of the school in order for you to pick them up while carrying. You can cut the irony with a knife!

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 3:25 PM
What it says EXACTLY is the following: "not valid within 1000' of any school/if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."

Ok, this right here says your CCW is pretty much worthless in any urban area, particularly as a realtor. If you're picking up your kids from the corner near the school, I can just about 100% guarantee you that you're violating the terms of your permit and can be taken in for 12025, carrying a concealed weapon without a permit (if your permit is invalid due to conditions, it's the same as not having a permit). And this would also apply any time you're driving around and passing through school zones.

My advice, unfortunately: IMMEDIATELY discontinue taking your gun around concealed and loaded until this is straightened out. Put a lock on your purse and transport the gun without a loaded magazine installed and an empty chamber so that it qualifies as LUCC for transportation purposes between CCW-cleared locations. Don't exercise your CCW outside of areas (probably just deserted/rural areas) where you know 100% there's no school within 1000', and immediately contact the issuing department and request that they rewrite the 1000' provision to say that you may not carry on school grounds. If you want to get a feel for how far 1000' is... get in your car and drive 0.2 miles. That's around how far it is, and it's as the crow flies from the nearest school. You basically can't carry anywhere in city neighborhoods with that restriction.

Sadly, I think this is a reaction to UOC. "See, we'll issue you permits. They just won't be valid."

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 3:50 PM
The pieces come together: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Sykes_v._McGinness

Sacramento County is named in Sykes. They're issuing permits (which are pretty much invalid) so that they aren't creating more people with standing.

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 3:53 PM
Get this info to Gene pronto.

PMed...:31:

supersonic
01-06-2010, 3:58 PM
Get this info to Gene pronto.

PMed...

^^^^^^DITTO^^^^^ASAP!!!!!!!

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 3:59 PM
Just spoke with Gene; he's going to check it out. Don't go flooding his inbox. :p

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 4:04 PM
Just spoke with Gene; he's going to check it out. Don't go flooding his inbox. :p

Did you call or just nudge him? :p

GuyW
01-06-2010, 4:08 PM
Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school,

Wow, is that stupid....
.

ponderosa
01-06-2010, 4:11 PM
Man, that is bunk :pinch:
:mad:

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 4:12 PM
Did you call or just nudge him? :p

Phone call.

KylaGWolf
01-06-2010, 4:13 PM
Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school, while consuming alcohol, or in an establishment that primarily serves alcohol. I have 3 boys, so I pick them up from school at the corner now, instead of going in the parking lot. Those are the only restrictions.

For every day carry, I have a holster purse, in which I carry a S&W 340pd with laser grip. That's the same gun that I keep in my bedroom at night...

I also have an M&P 9mm that I sometimes carry in a holster. I'm not a big gal (5' 2", 125 lbs), so it depends on what I'm wearing if I can carry on my hip or not. I much prefer to carry on my hip, but I definitely keep better track of my purse now that my gun is in it ;-)

Well congratulations on the CCW. Now saying that they have basically hamstrung you by adding the 1000' from a school which by the way if I understand correctly is moot since a CCW should allow you to carry on school grounds. Double check your distance they go from the edge of the property to measure so the corner may still be within the 1000' range. And nice choice of guns :D

KylaGWolf
01-06-2010, 4:18 PM
Yes, it's actually written on the back of the permit.

The corner is about 3 blocks from the school.

I will have to research some more...

Depending how long those blocks are you could still be in violation. Take the post that Meplat I think it was posted and print it out and take it in to the SSO and tell them to take off the illegal restriction. I would also talk to a gun lawyer and see what legal recourse you have in getting it removed. But that is just me. Getting a CCW is hard to do and if you are lucky enough to get one then you should be able to have the right to carry without the stupid you can't carry near a school when the law says you can.

KylaGWolf
01-06-2010, 4:22 PM
Here is my understanding- of course, I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll correct me- but I've talked to TWO CCW instructors about it...

According to state LAW, I am exempt from the 1000 ft rule because I hold a valid CCW. However, each county also has their own ordinances- it's not a law, but it is a restriction on the CCW that I cannot carry there. Therefore, if I violated it, I cannot be arrested for it (I am not violating the law) but I can have my permit pulled for violating the county's rule...

What it says EXACTLY is the following: "not valid within 1000' of any school/if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."

That would also make it illegal for you to go to places like TGIF, Applebees, Chillis or any other restaurant that has a bar since they can argue their main purpose is to serve alcohol.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 4:25 PM
That would also make it illegal for you to go to places like TGIF, Applebees, Chillis or any other restaurant that has a bar since they can argue their main purpose is to serve alcohol.

No, not as it was explained to us. They are restaurants that have a bar. That is different, and not considered an establishment that primarily serves alcohol.

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 4:25 PM
Depending how long those blocks are you could still be in violation. Take the post that Meplat I think it was posted and print it out and take it in to the SSO and tell them to take off the illegal restriction. I would also talk to a gun lawyer and see what legal recourse you have in getting it removed. But that is just me. Getting a CCW is hard to do and if you are lucky enough to get one then you should be able to have the right to carry without the stupid you can't carry near a school when the law says you can.

Sadly I don't think the restriction is illegal. It does however negate the point of the CCW.

I would suggest approaching it as "I think you guys might have made a typo here, I think you meant on school grounds" as opposed to "RAAA! Take off this restriction!" I'd approach them gently before threatening lawyers. You can always escalate the situation, but you can't de-escalate it once you've called the L card in.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 4:53 PM
I realize I am new to this whole arguement, and I don't understand how all the laws apply, etc....just going based on what my instructor said, passing through a school zone is not a problem, but if I were to get out of my car with my loaded gun I would be in violation...

The problem really comes in if I had to USE the gun in one of these areas, because I am not required by law to let law enforcement know I am carrying a weapon if I am pulled over, for example. And you can bet if I get pulled over in front of the school I'm not gonna' say a word about having a weapon in my car...

navyinrwanda
01-06-2010, 5:14 PM
Ok, this right here says your CCW is pretty much worthless in any urban area...

Sadly, I think this is a reaction to UOC. "See, we'll issue you permits. They just won't be valid."
At the risk of putting my foot into something unpleasant, restrictions on CCW licenses are a natural consequence of the increasing publicity of UOC in California and LOC nationwide.

One of the reasons that California CCW licenses have so few statutory exceptions is because their issue is purely discretionary. Post-Sykes, once that discretion has been removed, I'd fully expect to see a barrage of legislation restricting when, where and how a CCW could be exercised. Sure, some of those restrictions might be so extreme as to negate the right and be found unconstitutional (after expensive and time-consuming litigation). But many others would likely stand as reasonable (including a 1000' gun-free school zone).

Welcome to the world of consequences.

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 5:16 PM
I realize I am new to this whole arguement, and I don't understand how all the laws apply, etc....just going based on what my instructor said, passing through a school zone is not a problem, but if I were to get out of my car with my loaded gun I would be in violation...

If your permit is invalid within a school zone, passing through a school zone is definitely a problem per the wording of the law.

And I'm not sure you realize just how much area is being blocked off by this 1000' issue. Like I say, next time you're driving, take note of how far 0.2 miles is in residential streets - it's a few blocks. Each individual school within the area creates its own 1000' bubble, including private schools and charter schools, and those are peppered around pretty much all urban areas.

A quick and by no means exhaustive search reveals several hundred qualifying schools in Sac county: http://www.cde.ca.gov/re/sd/

Any time you get out of your car with your gun purse, are you able to be positive that you're not within 1000' of one of these schools, or another school which may not appear on the CDE website? Bear in mind that it can be a few streets over and you won't have had a chance to see it, but you can still be cited with that wording on your permit.

Midian
01-06-2010, 5:17 PM
Women with guns.

What's not to love about that?


Congratulations!

GuyW
01-06-2010, 5:18 PM
So, your Good Cause is work-related....what good is your permit when you collect money within 1000 ft of a K-12 school?

.

Fjold
01-06-2010, 5:20 PM
Check your local city ordinances also.

Bakersfield City has an ordinance that makes it illegal to carry a weapon in a city park unless you are a Bakersfield City employee on official business.

The way it is written, Federal agents, County Sheriffs, CHP, off duty LEOs, CCW holders, etc. are not allowed to carry firearms in city parks.

kf6tac
01-06-2010, 5:21 PM
And I'm not sure you realize just how much area is being blocked off by this 1000' issue. Like I say, next time you're driving, take note of how far 0.2 miles is in residential streets - it's a few blocks. Each individual school within the area creates its own 1000' bubble, including private schools and charter schools, and those are peppered around pretty much all urban areas.

Another way of visualizing just how huge of a distance this is, which helps me because I attend football games a lot, is that 1000' is a little over THREE football fields. At that distance, even with nothing blocking your view, you'd be lucky to be able to make out the school, and certainly wouldn't even be able to see your kids if they were standing at the edge of the school's property.

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 5:24 PM
If your permit is invalid within a school zone, passing through a school zone is definitely a problem per the wording of the law.

Concealed, Loaded, and in a School Zone with a non valid license to carry could = Felon

Sounds like an unreasonable restriction. Did they provide a map? Ya right, they don't even know where all those zones are.

Liberty1
01-06-2010, 5:26 PM
Check your local city ordinances also.

Bakersfield City has an ordinance that makes it illegal to carry a weapon in a city park unless you are a Bakersfield City employee on official business.

The way it is written, Federal agents, County Sheriffs, CHP, off duty LEOs, CCW holders, etc. are not allowed to carry firearms in city parks.

If it doesn't have an exemption for certain State authorized carriers then it is likely preempted by her license.

Billy Jack
01-06-2010, 5:27 PM
I hate to rain on your parade in that you are all having so much fun posting about the Realtors restrictions but: 12050 PC

(b) A license may include any reasonable restrictions or
conditions which the issuing authority deems warranted, including
restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under
which the person may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.



Billy Jack

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 5:30 PM
I hate to rain on your parade in that you are all having so much fun posting about the Realtors restrictions but: 12050 PC

Completely true. This is why I'd propose the "Hey, I think you might have made a mistake here" approach rather than trying to go to lawyers. They might actually see reason on, "Oh yeah, her good cause was for real estate, and that's frequently within 1000 feet" if she asks nicely first.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 5:31 PM
Grammaton, if I didn't know better, I would think you were someone who just didn't want anyone to carry a gun... your advice- leave it locked in my trunk. Or maybe you just like to argue. I'm not really sure. But in any case, yes I know where I can and can't carry my gun- yes I know where all the schools are where I live. (Certainly not everywhere I go, however.) But if you want to get technical, since I LIVE within 1000 ft of a school as the crow flies, I could be arrested for standing in my front yard with my gun in my holster, concealed by my vest? There's NO room for common sense? Please....

Do you have a CCW? Are you pissed because I have one? I just can't quite figure you out. If you'd like to give me some advice, that's fine, but all I've heard so far is negativity and personal attacks on what I do or don't know or how confident I am.

I can tell you one thing- and I am not going to get into details here. But I know with 100% certainty that my having a gun on me prevented me from being kidnapped on Dec 30 at 6pm at a gas station in my town. Fortunately I did not have to shoot at anyone. However, in the case that ever happens, I would rather take a risk of ending up in jail myself because I was 1000 ft from a school than leaving my kids without a mother because some punk decided he was going to take advantage of me...

Now, if we're talking about trying to get the restriction lifted, that would be great and I'd be open to ideas on how to actually make that happen, but other than that I guess I'll take my chances carrying my weapon, because I'm NOT locking it in my trunk.

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 5:35 PM
Grammaton, if I didn't know better, I would think you were someone who just didn't want anyone to carry a gun... your advice- leave it locked in my trunk. Or maybe you just like to argue. I'm not really sure. But in any case, yes I know where I can and can't carry my gun- yes I know where all the schools are where I live. (Certainly not everywhere I go, however.)

That's hardly what I'm proposing here. It appears to me that you're not taking the law as seriously as you need to (1000' is 1000'), and I just don't want to see you get nailed for a felony offense and lose your hard-fought permit. Particularly when if you get them to reword the restriction, you won't be in jeopardy.

As for locking it in your trunk, that's NOT what I suggested. I suggested a lock on your purse, and unloaded, when in areas where you aren't 100% sure it's not a school zone.

I've been dealing with the same 1000' issue with open carry for a very long time at this point, and am intimately familiar with just how much of urban areas are covered by it. My concerns are indeed justified.

And I live within a school zone myself, which means that yes, without a valid permit (yours states that it's invalid within school zones), the gun must be in a locked case when you're not within your residence (and certain other narrow exemptions).

But if you want to get technical, since I LIVE within 1000 ft of a school as the crow flies, I could be arrested for standing in my front yard with my gun in my holster, concealed by my vest? There's NO room for common sense? Please....

That is EXACTLY what I am saying, unless your front yard has a fence enclosing it and thus rendering it not publicly accessible.

Cases have shown time and time and time again that there IS no room for common sense in the law or the enforcement thereof, unfortunately.

kf6tac
01-06-2010, 5:35 PM
Grammaton, if I didn't know better, I would think you were someone who just didn't want anyone to carry a gun... your advice- leave it locked in my trunk. Or maybe you just like to argue. I'm not really sure. But in any case, yes I know where I can and can't carry my gun- yes I know where all the schools are where I live. (Certainly not everywhere I go, however.) But if you want to get technical, since I LIVE within 1000 ft of a school as the crow flies, I could be arrested for standing in my front yard with my gun in my holster, concealed by my vest? There's NO room for common sense? Please....

Do you have a CCW? Are you pissed because I have one? I just can't quite figure you out. If you'd like to give me some advice, that's fine, but all I've heard so far is negativity and personal attacks on what I do or don't know or how confident I am.

I can tell you one thing- and I am not going to get into details here. But I know with 100% certainty that my having a gun on me prevented me from being kidnapped on Dec 30 at 6pm at a gas station in my town. Fortunately I did not have to shoot at anyone. However, in the case that ever happens, I would rather take a risk of ending up in jail myself because I was 1000 ft from a school than leaving my kids without a mother because some punk decided he was going to take advantage of me...

Now, if we're talking about trying to get the restriction lifted, that would be great and I'd be open to ideas on how to actually make that happen, but other than that I guess I'll take my chances carrying my weapon, because I'm NOT locking it in my trunk.

Grammaton is just trying to keep you from getting arrested for a felony. As a realtor, you certainly are in a better position than most to know where the schools in your area are, but the way "school" is defined in the Penal Code, it often includes things that aren't, strictly speaking, schools.

And yes, there is an exception for being in your residence within a school zone, but we're most concerned about times when you're not on your private property, which, since you pick up your kids regularly, will probably be quite often.

626.9(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.

navyinrwanda
01-06-2010, 5:36 PM
...I would rather take a risk of ending up in jail myself because I was 1000 ft from a school than leaving my kids without a mother because some punk decided he was going to take advantage of me...

Words of wisdom (and courage) for all. Especially those who advocate UOC for "self-defense."

GuyW
01-06-2010, 5:42 PM
There's NO room for common sense? Please....


....not in the Peeples Republik....
.

Billy Jack
01-06-2010, 5:46 PM
3boyzmom,

Your restriction is most likely a 'boilerplate restriction' that someone in Command Staff thought should be on all permits. Who knows, there may have been a problem in the past.

Here is the proper procedure for getting it removed. Call the CCW Sgt./Lt. and explain your situation. Follow it up with a professional letter thanking them for listening and restate your conversation with them explaining your profession and the situation the restriction causes you.

If he/she will not correct it, ask for a personal meeting with the Sheriff. Either he or a member of his Command Staff will meet with you. Make your case and they will most likely remove the restriction. A note of advice, it is Good Cause, not Just Cause. Misstating the law will not gain you gravitas in dealing with law enforcement.

Billy Jack

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 5:50 PM
^^^ The correct answer, imho.

glockman19
01-06-2010, 6:02 PM
Congrats!!!

I too rent apartments.

Unfortunately...Los Angeles does not have the same respect for my safety as Sacramento does.

Soldier415
01-06-2010, 6:31 PM
You Lucky SOB!
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a SOB

paul0660
01-06-2010, 6:32 PM
Oh, so it IS on it...........too bad.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 7:08 PM
Thank you Billy Jack. I will try that. And thank you for the correction on good cause...

And just to clarify- I absolutely take the law seriously, and I realize that carrying a concealed weapon is a responsibility. I don't do it because I think I'm "badass." And if there's anyone who knows she can't afford a felony, it's me- felony=no real estate license, in addition to jail time/expense, etc. I do want to be in compliance with the law, and I do want to be able to protect myself. I appreciate the helpful advice about getting the restriction lifted. I would not have any problem with a restriction against carrying on school grounds...

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 7:13 PM
Cool. Please keep us posted on Sac's response to your request. It'd be very useful to know how they reacted, in case that comes up again.

Given that they accepted your good cause but then turned around and effectively mooted your permit with the 1000' thing, I feel there's a good chance they just didn't think it through when they wrote it on your permit.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 7:16 PM
I will definitely keep you posted. My understanding is that it appears on ALL Sac. County permits, so you're probably right- there was no "thinking" in how it would apply in my specific case.

SanSacto
01-06-2010, 7:20 PM
Hmm......I do have a real estate salespersons license......maybe now I can put it to good use?

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 7:28 PM
Well, I'm a broker, and they actually wanted proof that I work for banks doing evictions on foreclosed homes. It probably helps that I live in a rural part of the county and a Sheriff's Deputy (who did a lockout out for me and whose name I cited on my letter for good cause) verified that the response time to one of my REOs was an hour.

But have at it!!

Meplat
01-06-2010, 7:33 PM
You have to be kidding! Sacto puts that school zone BS on your CCW. You can't get from one place to another without violating that or stopping every 5 minuets to lock up your gun!:rolleyes:

Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school, while consuming alcohol, or in an establishment that primarily serves alcohol. I have 3 boys, so I pick them up from school at the corner now, instead of going in the parking lot. Those are the only restrictions.

For every day carry, I have a holster purse, in which I carry a S&W 340pd with laser grip. That's the same gun that I keep in my bedroom at night...

I also have an M&P 9mm that I sometimes carry in a holster. I'm not a big gal (5' 2", 125 lbs), so it depends on what I'm wearing if I can carry on my hip or not. I much prefer to carry on my hip, but I definitely keep better track of my purse now that my gun is in it ;-)

Meplat
01-06-2010, 7:45 PM
In Fresno they only exclude actual school grounds, airports, and national parks. Cannot carry while under the influence but you can in places that serve alcohol. :D

Hmmm, maybe it's not an exception. My memory has been letting me down in the past 24 hours.

professorhard
01-06-2010, 7:53 PM
Can you post your avatar pic fullsize?

twotap
01-06-2010, 7:57 PM
Congrats.It's a great feeling of personal acomplishment that you should be proud of. And I'm sure you are.Don't let the turkeys get you down.

RP1911
01-06-2010, 8:03 PM
Can you post your avatar pic fullsize?

Tsk tsk

Walker
01-06-2010, 8:04 PM
I am working on opening a business in the next year or so. Of your location in the county may have played a roll in getting it I think I might be S.O.L. as so far it looks like I will be opening almost across the street from a station.

But congrats and enjoy your freedom.

SCB5794
01-06-2010, 8:04 PM
Can you post your avatar pic fullsize?

lol:43:

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 8:08 PM
Can you post your avatar pic fullsize?

Even after ignoring you the first time, you tried again? Nice try- ain't happenin'...

Glad to see a female can be taken seriously by most of the forum members, however :D

Meplat
01-06-2010, 8:11 PM
Two different kinds of liquor licenses. The liquor only kind are just about impossible to get in CA anymore.


No, not as it was explained to us. They are restaurants that have a bar. That is different, and not considered an establishment that primarily serves alcohol.

SCB5794
01-06-2010, 8:12 PM
Even after ignoring you the first time, you tried again? Nice try- ain't happenin'...

Glad to see a female can be taken seriously by most of the forum members, however :D

Well, after all Girls-n-Guns are a perfect mix:whistling:

Kestryll
01-06-2010, 8:14 PM
Can you post your avatar pic fullsize?

Oh yeah, there's some real class.... :rolleyes:

How about you leave the meat market mindset at the door, it'll be best for all concerned.

Meplat
01-06-2010, 8:14 PM
God do we need incorporation!

Sadly I don't think the restriction is illegal. It does however negate the point of the CCW.

I would suggest approaching it as "I think you guys might have made a typo here, I think you meant on school grounds" as opposed to "RAAA! Take off this restriction!" I'd approach them gently before threatening lawyers. You can always escalate the situation, but you can't de-escalate it once you've called the L card in.

SCB5794
01-06-2010, 8:15 PM
Oh yeah, there's some real class.... :rolleyes:

How about you leave the meat market mindset at the door, it'll be best for all concerned.

Well said!

Meplat
01-06-2010, 8:25 PM
I think they are just planning on selective enforcement.



I realize I am new to this whole arguement, and I don't understand how all the laws apply, etc....just going based on what my instructor said, passing through a school zone is not a problem, but if I were to get out of my car with my loaded gun I would be in violation...

The problem really comes in if I had to USE the gun in one of these areas, because I am not required by law to let law enforcement know I am carrying a weapon if I am pulled over, for example. And you can bet if I get pulled over in front of the school I'm not gonna' say a word about having a weapon in my car...


Which makes you nervous. And that makes the officer curious, so he starts asking questions. You get evasive. next thing you know he's asking you to step out of the car and doing a terry search. You need more exposure to this site.

BTW, congrats..........I think?

CitaDeL
01-06-2010, 8:33 PM
Restrictions- can't carry 1000 ft from a school, while consuming alcohol, or in an establishment that primarily serves alcohol. Those are the only restrictions.

Ugh-

I know this has already been covered, but there is as much legal justification to UOC without a license as there is to carry concealed with a license with this ridiculous restriction. By ridiculous I mean "unreasonable".

I pray this may be the next case on 'ccw' after Sykes.

My-AK47
01-06-2010, 8:35 PM
Congrats is in order......I Wonder how hard it is to get a CCW if you are disabled??

Meplat
01-06-2010, 8:35 PM
I don't open carry. I agree with the don't do it now viewpoint'

However I am becoming annoyed at some here who jump at the chance to blame everything including global warming and the national debt on open carriers.:p

My money would be on current litigation as the cause of this sneaky little stunt.

At the risk of putting my foot into something unpleasant, restrictions on CCW licenses are a natural consequence of the increasing publicity of UOC in California and LOC nationwide.

One of the reasons that California CCW licenses have so few statutory exceptions is because their issue is purely discretionary. Post-Sykes, once that discretion has been removed, I'd fully expect to see a barrage of legislation restricting when, where and how a CCW could be exercised. Sure, some of those restrictions might be so extreme as to negate the right and be found unconstitutional (after expensive and time-consuming litigation). But many others would likely stand as reasonable (including a 1000' gun-free school zone).

Welcome to the world of consequences.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 8:41 PM
I think they are just planning on selective enforcement.



I realize I am new to this whole arguement, and I don't understand how all the laws apply, etc....just going based on what my instructor said, passing through a school zone is not a problem, but if I were to get out of my car with my loaded gun I would be in violation...

The problem really comes in if I had to USE the gun in one of these areas, because I am not required by law to let law enforcement know I am carrying a weapon if I am pulled over, for example. And you can bet if I get pulled over in front of the school I'm not gonna' say a word about having a weapon in my car...


Which makes you nervous. And that makes the officer curious, so he starts asking questions. You get evasive. next thing you know he's asking you to step out of the car and doing a terry search. You need more exposure to this site.

BTW, congrats..........I think?

I'm here for a reason- to become more educated. It's the same reason I took more training courses than required, that I will continue to take firearms training courses, that I read, that I discuss with other gun owners...I'm new here, but don't expect that means I'm completely clueless or haven't thought about the issues. And for the record, I'm not required to disclose that I'm legally carrying a weapon, so it wouldn't make me nervous a bit. If I thought I was doing something illegal, THEN I'd be nervous.

However, instead of just saying "you need more exposure to this site," would you like to explain how you think I should handle that situation? Or would you rather just tell me I'm doing it all wrong?

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 8:45 PM
Congrats is in order......I Wonder how hard it is to get a CCW if you are disabled??

There was a man in my CCW class who got his CCW application approved by using the fact that he is in a wheelchair as his good cause. He is paralyzed from the waist down, and if anyone even knocked him out of his chair he would be helpless. He did, however, previously have a CCW in Humbolt County, so I don't know if that was a factor in Sac County approving him or not.

Meplat
01-06-2010, 8:53 PM
I hate to rain on your parade in that you are all having so much fun posting about the Realtors restrictions but: 12050 PC

(b) A license may include any reasonable restrictions or
conditions which the issuing authority deems warranted, including
restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under
which the person may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.



Billy Jack

Yep, if it says you can only carry while standing on your head in the back yard of Buddhist temple that's all you can do.

BTW, Bill Jack, has anyone mentioned that you usually seem to come off as having an abundance of self esteem?

CCWFacts
01-06-2010, 8:53 PM
Yes, it's actually written on the back of the permit.

That sucks. Congratulations on getting a permit, but if it is not valid in school zones, then it's basically worthless, because every urban area in this state is blanketed with school zones. I believe that it's a felony for you to go within 1000' of a school, despite having a CCW. That includes driving past the school on the street. If I'm interpreting things correctly.

I think they are just planning on selective enforcement.

If I were comfortable relying on selective enforcement, I wouldn't even care about CCWs. I would carry without one, assuming a) I'll never be searched (I never have been) and b) if I were, I could rely on selective enforcement. I'm not willing to bet on either a) or b) there.

Your permit seems to leave you open to felony charges if you ever ever caught within 1000' of a school while carrying. Also, IANALEO (I'm not a cop) but I think their enforcement selectivity is significantly less flexible when the crime is a felony vs. when it's a misdemeanor (is this true?).

Billy Jack
01-06-2010, 8:54 PM
A handicapped applicant would be given fair consideration in many counties. It would come down to the department determining they were able retain control of the weapon and were proficient.

I was on the verge of coming to 3boyzmom's defense when she showed she was quite capable of taking care of herself.

I have been assisting CCW applicants for over 25 years and I strongly encourage women with GC to apply. They might be surprised that they can be issued.

Does anyone want to see my avatar larger? Point made.

Good luck young lady and stay safe.

Billy Jack

Meplat
01-06-2010, 8:57 PM
YOU GO GIRL


Grammaton, if I didn't know better, I would think you were someone who just didn't want anyone to carry a gun... your advice- leave it locked in my trunk. Or maybe you just like to argue. I'm not really sure. But in any case, yes I know where I can and can't carry my gun- yes I know where all the schools are where I live. (Certainly not everywhere I go, however.) But if you want to get technical, since I LIVE within 1000 ft of a school as the crow flies, I could be arrested for standing in my front yard with my gun in my holster, concealed by my vest? There's NO room for common sense? Please....

Do you have a CCW? Are you pissed because I have one? I just can't quite figure you out. If you'd like to give me some advice, that's fine, but all I've heard so far is negativity and personal attacks on what I do or don't know or how confident I am.

I can tell you one thing- and I am not going to get into details here. But I know with 100% certainty that my having a gun on me prevented me from being kidnapped on Dec 30 at 6pm at a gas station in my town. Fortunately I did not have to shoot at anyone. However, in the case that ever happens, I would rather take a risk of ending up in jail myself because I was 1000 ft from a school than leaving my kids without a mother because some punk decided he was going to take advantage of me...

Now, if we're talking about trying to get the restriction lifted, that would be great and I'd be open to ideas on how to actually make that happen, but other than that I guess I'll take my chances carrying my weapon, because I'm NOT locking it in my trunk.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 8:58 PM
That sucks. Congratulations on getting a permit, but if it is not valid in school zones, then it's basically worthless, because every urban area in this state is blanketed with school zones. I believe that it's a felony for you to go within 1000' of a school, despite having a CCW. That includes driving past the school on the street. If I'm interpreting things correctly.

So here's MY understanding....it is not a violation of state LAW if I am within 1000' feet of a school. It is a violation of a COUNTY restriction on my CCW. Therefore, if I am found carrying within 1000 feet of a school, the county can pull my CCW. It is a restriction imposed by the Sheriff, not a violation of the law.

But again, that is what my instructor said- and what another instructor said that I asked about this. Considering I live in a fairly small town, I don't think it would be unwise for me to go visit with our police chief and ask him that very question. I would like to know how my city's police force would handle me driving past the school with a loaded weapon in my car...

hoffmang
01-06-2010, 9:03 PM
1. The Sacramento County 1000' CCW restriction is a restriction that as far as I can ascertain is on all CCWs issued in that county.

2. 3boyzmom is correct that she is exempt from both the state and federal GFSZ by virtue of being in possession of a 12050 license.

3. However, Sacramento can revoke her permit for violating the 1000' restriction. She would not face charges as she was licensed at the time the would potentially find her within 1000'.

4. After Sykes, we will not let such silly restrictions stand.

-Gene

Librarian
01-06-2010, 9:08 PM
So here's MY understanding....it is not a violation of state LAW if I am within 1000' feet of a school. It is a violation of a COUNTY restriction on my CCW. Therefore, if I am found carrying within 1000 feet of a school, the county can pull my CCW. It is a restriction imposed by the Sheriff, not a violation of the law.


If I recall correctly, the language you quoted from your license stated it was "not valid" in the listed conditions.

Essentially, that means that you don't have a license under those circumstances.

So, while it's true that violating the conditions is likely to cause the license to be revoked, carrying concealed without a (currently valid) license would also be a crime.

I'll add my congratulations; good job!

CCWFacts
01-06-2010, 9:08 PM
So here's MY understanding....it is not a violation of state LAW if I am within 1000' feet of a school. It is a violation of a COUNTY restriction on my CCW. Therefore, if I am found carrying within 1000 feet of a school, the county can pull my CCW. It is a restriction imposed by the Sheriff, not a violation of the law.

That's the part that I'm not clear on.

Is it:


A restriction on a CCW renders the CCW "non-existent" when the restriction is in effect; or
A restriction on a CCW is merely a violation of the issuing agency's policy, and can result in the CCW being yanked if the policy is violated, but the CCW is still in effect?


I think it's #1 (if your CCW says "not within 1000' of a school", it basically ceases to exist under those circumstances), but someone else would have to answer more clearly.

But again, that is what my instructor said- and what another instructor said that I asked about this. Considering I live in a fairly small town, I don't think it would be unwise for me to go visit with our police chief and ask him that very question.

I would be very hesitant about various gun instructor legal advice. Gun shops are known for spouting all kinds of totally incorrect nonsense; some of these part-time instructors may be the same. Likewise, the police are often poorly informed about PC 12050, and even if they are well-informed they sometimes deliberately spread misinformation.

I think CalGuns.net is the place to come for information!

You may get some conflicting statements, but you will eventually get a lot of information with references which you can evaluate for yourself.

I would like to know how my city's police force would handle me driving past the school with a loaded weapon in my car...

BE VERY CAREFUL! The chief can give you a signed letter saying, "we will not arrest you for this..." and it has no effect at all. They can still arrest you for it. Even if you discuss it with him, and say, "I have a CCW. I drive past this school every day. Could I get in trouble for it?" is a confession to a felony, and the police cannot give you immunity from prosecution. In fact, by having said that, you've given them probable cause to search you next time they see you driving by a school! Plenty of police chiefs hate CCW issuance and would delight in the opportunity to get a gun, and your CCW, and you, off the street.

A police promise of "we won't arrest you for committing this felony" is not a promise you should rely on.

Note: I am not a lawyer, so I hope someone who is might correct me if I've misstated something here.

Meplat
01-06-2010, 9:11 PM
Even after ignoring you the first time, you tried again? Nice try- ain't happenin'...

Glad to see a female can be taken seriously by most of the forum members, however :D

If you haven't found it yet there is a Ladies' forum where the mods control our adolescent boys so you don't have to put up with that kind of thing. But I think you can hold your own anywhere.;)

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 9:14 PM
I'll stick with Gene's clarification, if ya'all don't mind, and not just because he backed me up ;-)

And thanks Billy Jack and Meplat for the support.

CCWFacts
01-06-2010, 9:17 PM
1. The Sacramento County 1000' CCW restriction is a restriction that as far as I can ascertain is on all CCWs issued in that county.

2. 3boyzmom is correct that she is exempt from both the state and federal GFSZ by virtue of being in possession of a 12050 license.

3. However, Sacramento can revoke her permit for violating the 1000' restriction. She would not face charges as she was licensed at the time the would potentially find her within 1000'.

Thanks for the clarification; I was wrong. So her biggest risk in going by a school is losing her CCW, not anything more serious (criminal charges). Many people would find that an acceptable risk and not worry about it.

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 9:18 PM
If you haven't found it yet there is a Ladies' forum where the mods control our adolescent boys so you don't have to put up with that kind of thing. But I think you can hold your own anywhere.;)

Ya think?! :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

dwh100
01-06-2010, 9:23 PM
Please follow up on Billy Jack's suggestion! I would love to see the Sheriff's written response to your request about your ccw dilemma!

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 9:25 PM
Thanks for the clarification; I was wrong. So her biggest risk in going by a school is losing her CCW, not anything more serious (criminal charges). Many people would find that an acceptable risk and not worry about it.

This is why I said I wouldn't nervous about not telling an officer I had a gun in my purse if I were pulled over in front of the school. I'm not breaking the law. I'm totally at peace with driving past a school with a loaded gun in my car. However, in using common sense, I will continue to pick my kids up down the street instead of in front of the school, and if I know I'm going to be going to the school, I will unload my gun and lock it in my trunk before driving over there. I intend to follow the law, and the restrictions on my license as I can most reasonably follow them.

I will still see if I can get the restriction lifted. I think it is a reasonable request due to the nature of my job. In fact, there is a house for sale right across the street from the elementary school in town right now and I will use that as a potential scenario that could cause a problem for me.

West coast
01-06-2010, 9:26 PM
Congratulations!!!!!!

sreiter
01-06-2010, 9:32 PM
Even after ignoring you the first time, you tried again? Nice try- ain't happenin'...

Glad to see a female can be taken seriously by most of the forum members, however :D

they are not mutually exclusive - you can be taken seriously, AND be oogled -

trust me, the day guys stop gawking over you, you will be very very sad indeed

twotap
01-06-2010, 9:38 PM
As the discussion went on another tread.I do not believe a reasonable person is able to know the distance of 1000ft.For a restriction or law to be enforceable I would think you need fair warning you are in that zone.Either by sign like in No Parking or speed limit 25mph.or a total clearing of that 1000ft so that there is no question about the zone, as in what we have to do in cleaning our property for fire protection. Most reasonable citizens if given the choice will not break the law.Criminals do not care. What do law enforcement or attorneys on this site have as an opinion.

RP1911
01-06-2010, 9:39 PM
http://skepticalteacher.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/facepalm.jpg

fredieusa
01-06-2010, 9:45 PM
Wow congrats. Hope you never have to use it and should you need to, you don't hesitate.

I am sure you have practiced enough to deploy your gun fast, depending on the method you use for carrying.
And I am not saying this because you are a woman.

This gives some hope in Sac county for the CCW movement..

CSDGuy
01-06-2010, 9:45 PM
3boysmom: Your CCW puts you into a position where they can revoke your CCW for being within 1000 feet of a school. You are exempt from both the State and Federal GFSZ acts until they revoke the license. One thing to key off of is that they won't revoke the license if you're just driving by... the GFSZ acts do NOT exempt your loaded, concealed handgun if you're "just driving by" without the CCW in your possession.

To be on "the safe side", if the school you're referring to has only one road to access it, you'd best measure 1000 feet from the corner of their parking lot to where you'll park. I also suspect that going to Sacramento, you'd do exactly that... drive by a school.

Congrats on getting your CCW License.

ZirconJohn
01-06-2010, 10:05 PM
3boyzmom,

Congratulations on your new CCW; it is a great accomplishment, and certainly worthy of great honor.

As a resident of Mendocino County; we are certainly lucky to have a very pro gun Sheriff Tom Allman. Upon completion of CCW Class; then submission of application in this County, a matter of interview w/ Sheriff Depatment and it's done... CCW with no school restrictions... I have seven (7) guns on my license, only ever carried three (not at one time).

Anyway... before I blah, blah, blah [already did]... congrats once again, take care.

Much respect to you Ma'am...

jd

GuyW
01-06-2010, 10:37 PM
trust me, the day guys stop gawking over you, you will be very very sad indeed

You know this from personal experience??

supersonic
01-06-2010, 10:50 PM
To the OP: one very crucial element of even having a CCW is anonymity, meaning your firearm is concealed for a REASON. Now, as a rather blockheaded post proved earlier, there are a lot of creeps out there whose radar you don't want to be on. In my own opinion, and for your safety/own good/anonymity, etc., I would change my avatar to anything other than your own face. You have already let God-knows-how many people (some certainly "questionable") in Sacramento know who you are and that you CCW. I'm only saying this because I think it would be prudent to be cautious in every way conceivable. A lot of 'creeps' would rather 'know' than 'not know,' if you know what I mean.;) Best of luck to you and stay safe. Peace,
-Scott

LAK Supply
01-06-2010, 11:05 PM
3boysmom- You may want to consider that some people here are attempting to help you avoid a troublesome situation. Gram's suggestion that you lock your unloaded weapon in your purse while within 1000' of a school is the correct recommendation and in no way warranted your response. I would suggest you review the school zone map so you are able to recognize that it is nearly impossible for you to drive through Sac without violating the terms of your permit.

There is no such thing as "common sense" in regards to enforcement of firearms laws in most of CA, particularly where you are at. You may not be violating state/fed law, but a DA could also argue that your permit was null and void in the school zone and prosecute. Your permit would be revoked and you would likely be out thousands or tens of thousands in legal bills regardless of outcome. If you do not believe believe this possible I suggest you speak with the private parties and FFL holders who have been prosecuted on AW charges for possessing legally-configured guns. One of these FFL holders is a friend of mine and it cost him months worth of time, thousands in confiscated property, and $10k+ in attorney fees.

The fact that somebody is attempting to help you stay out of trouble does not mean they are jealous of your severly limited CCW. I personally would not find a permit with these restrictions particularly useful; you are restricted from carrying in heavily populated areas where self-defense is most likely to be necessary.

If you are posting here to brag you have done so. If you are posting with the intention of becoming more educated you may want to take the insight of experienced people under consideration rather than taking it as a personal attack and responding accordingly.

Requesting, in a professional manner, that the restriction be lifted is good advice.

picasso
01-06-2010, 11:10 PM
Just wanted to post the good news that I was approved and have now RECEIVED my CA CCW in Sacramento County. As a CA real estate broker, my "just cause" is the fact I often collect rents in cash and I serve eviction notices in rural parts of the county. It took 5 months to get approval and then about a month and a half to process everything once my class completion/shooting qualification was turned in.

Congratulations, that's really awesome!



To the OP: one very crucial element of even having a CCW is anonymity, meaning your firearm is concealed for a REASON. Now, as a rather blockheaded post proved earlier, there are a lot of creeps out there whose radar you don't want to be on. In my own opinion, and for your safety/own good/anonymity, etc., I would change my avatar to anything other than your own face. You have already let God-knows-how many people (some certainly "questionable") in Sacramento know who you are and that you CCW. I'm only saying this because I think it would be prudent to be cautious in every way conceivable. A lot of 'creeps' would rather 'know' than 'not know,' if you know what I mean.;) Best of luck to you and stay safe. Peace,
-Scott

I totally agree. Anonymity should be paramount.

NorCalMama
01-06-2010, 11:16 PM
Lucky!!!

supersonic
01-06-2010, 11:16 PM
!I totally agree. Anonymity should be paramount

3boyzmom, please take my advice as soon as you see my post. I'm just looking out for a fellow parent/SacTown-ite/gun-carrier.:)

NorCalMama
01-06-2010, 11:17 PM
To the OP: one very crucial element of even having a CCW is anonymity, meaning your firearm is concealed for a REASON. Now, as a rather blockheaded post proved earlier, there are a lot of creeps out there whose radar you don't want to be on. In my own opinion, and for your safety/own good/anonymity, etc., I would change my avatar to anything other than your own face. You have already let God-knows-how many people (some certainly "questionable") in Sacramento know who you are and that you CCW. I'm only saying this because I think it would be prudent to be cautious in every way conceivable. A lot of 'creeps' would rather 'know' than 'not know,' if you know what I mean.;) Best of luck to you and stay safe. Peace,
-Scott

Good post!

supersonic
01-06-2010, 11:19 PM
Good post!

Thanks. I'm just being realistic & careful. BTW, 3boyzmom could use your avatar as a great starting point/example.;)

Meplat
01-06-2010, 11:20 PM
Does anyone want to see my avatar larger? Point made.
Billy Jack

Well, I do like the hat!

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 11:22 PM
If you are posting here to brag you have done so. If you are posting with the intention of becoming more educated you may want to take the insight of experienced people under consideration rather than taking it as a personal attack and responding accordingly.

Requesting, in a professional manner, that the restriction be lifted is good advice.

Actually, I never posted to brag. In fact, I don't think my original post was bragging at all. Instead, I posted to let others know that it is, in fact, possible to obtain a CCW in Sac County, and what I used for my good cause arguement. Refer to my original post, and then see that all I did was answer questions while being told I didn't know the law or didn't take it seriously....

And I'm sorry, but many of those who "know more" than I do did not understand the difference between breaking the law (and therefore committing a felony) & violating a restriction on my CCW (punishable by having my CCW pulled) and therefore assumed that I was "uneducated." What I tried to explain from the beginning was that I was not committing a felony by driving past the school. And I think Gene succintly summed it up in his response.

twotap
01-06-2010, 11:39 PM
good choice in avatar. once again congrats!!

3boyzmom
01-06-2010, 11:45 PM
good choice in avatar. once again congrats!!

what, none? Or the one I had up in sunglasses/headphones? lol

pullnshoot25
01-06-2010, 11:52 PM
Actually, I never posted to brag. In fact, I don't think my original post was bragging at all. Instead, I posted to let others know that it is, in fact, possible to obtain a CCW in Sac County, and what I used for my good cause arguement. Refer to my original post, and then see that all I did was answer questions while being told I didn't know the law or didn't take it seriously....

And I'm sorry, but many of those who "know more" than I do did not understand the difference between breaking the law (and therefore committing a felony) & violating a restriction on my CCW (punishable by having my CCW pulled) and therefore assumed that I was "uneducated." What I tried to explain from the beginning was that I was not committing a felony by driving past the school. And I think Gene succintly summed it up in his response.

Don't worry about LAK Supply, he forgot to take the urea out of his starch circles today.

Congrats on your CCW, that is very cool. Interesting story and restriction on your license, I find that quite amusing and lame.

Pax Tecum and CARRY ON!

-N8

pullnshoot25
01-06-2010, 11:58 PM
I would be very hesitant about various gun instructor legal advice. Gun shops are known for spouting all kinds of totally incorrect nonsense;


BE VERY CAREFUL! The chief can give you a signed letter saying, "we will not arrest you for this..." and it has no effect at all. They can still arrest you for it. Even if you discuss it with him, and say, "I have a CCW. I drive past this school every day. Could I get in trouble for it?" is a confession to a felony, and the police cannot give you immunity from prosecution. In fact, by having said that, you've given them probable cause to search you next time they see you driving by a school! Plenty of police chiefs hate CCW issuance and would delight in the opportunity to get a gun, and your CCW, and you, off the street.

A police promise of "we won't arrest you for committing this felony" is not a promise you should rely on.

Note: I am not a lawyer, so I hope someone who is might correct me if I've misstated something here.

What CCWFacts says is correct. NEVER take ANY information as anything truthful from a gun shop, part-time instructor or a cop. That is one thing we teach the people here at the Marksmanship Club, as there are all kinds of "FUDdy duddies" down here in SoCal.

All the stuff about talking to cops is VERY CORRECT. Do not talk to cops!

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 12:06 AM
Totally aware that instructors can be wrong, gun shop owners can be wrong, and even people on these forums can be wrong!! ;)

If I didn't happen to KNOW the police chief, I'd stay out of there too. :)

pullnshoot25
01-07-2010, 12:14 AM
Totally aware that instructors can be wrong, gun shop owners can be wrong, and even people on these forums can be wrong!! ;)

If I didn't happen to KNOW the police chief, I'd stay out of there too. :)

The people on this forum can be wrong at times. However, incorrect information happens with alarming irregularity and is usually corrected within about 5 minutes. In addition, many of us have our own reputations that we must protect by making sure the information we put out is correct. Plus, CGN is basically the cats meow.

Gun store owners and salesmen are notorious for lying to sell products and are even worse with knowing the law, far less than even the most novice Calgunner.

You should see us when we get together and talk shop in person, we get so technical it is like watching DNA get encoded.

twotap
01-07-2010, 1:15 AM
sunglasses/headphones Just enough to be not enough .keep it up there..

supersonic
01-07-2010, 6:38 AM
sunglasses/headphones Just enough to be not enough .keep it up there..

That was actually her 2nd choice, before she decided to take away the face avatar altogether & keep it simple. Then she put the face back up!?:confused:

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 6:45 AM
Here ya go. Now you'll never recognize me!

paul0660
01-07-2010, 6:52 AM
http://suttersheriff.org/docs/CCW_App.pdf:

"While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee
shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon:

.....Carry a concealed weapon at times or circumstances other than those specified in the permit.

Any violation of these restrictions or conditions may invalidate the CCW license and may void any
further use of the license until reinstated by the licensing authority."

"Invalidate" means no good, while you are violating the restriction. Sounds to me like you CAN be arrested for a violation of 626.9, not just lose your permit. Worst case scenario.

tango-52
01-07-2010, 6:57 AM
http://suttersheriff.org/docs/CCW_App.pdf:



"Invalidate" means no good, while you are violating the restriction. Sounds to me like you CAN be arrested for a violation of 626.9, not just lose your permit. Worst case scenario.

That was my understanding as well. It is unfortunate that SAC decided to go this route. Hopefully 3boyzmom can get that fixed. I hate to see honest citizens get in a bind because of bureaucratic nonsense.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 7:02 AM
I will get some clarification from the Sheriff's dept when I ask about having the restriction lifted. There's obviously 2 ways of thinking here- Gene's understanding was the same as mine- that violating the restriction could just get my CCW pulled, and you two (and probably others) who think I would be committing a felony because of the word "invalidate." I'm sure we could go back and forth for the next month on this point, and the speculation really doesn't do anyone any good.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 7:08 AM
One technical note, since that's what we're discussing anyways- it says violation MAY invalidate the permit (meaning it doesn't AUTOMATICALLY invalidate it, meaning it gives the Sheriff's Dept the OPTION of invalidating my permit- which is exactly how it was explained to us) to void any FURTHER (meaning in the future) use of the permit. So I still take that to mean if I am caught carrying a loaded weapon within 1000 ft of the school I COULD have my permit yanked and not be able to carry anymore...

JaMail
01-07-2010, 7:12 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=sacramento+google+schools+map&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl


google maps.. look at the bubble effect mentioned by a previous poster.

paul0660
01-07-2010, 7:17 AM
Worst case scenario.

Like I said.

Billy Jack
01-07-2010, 7:24 AM
3boyzmom

I have watched two days of misinformation posted to your original post. Your avatar was a testosterone magnet. You are still being provided misinformation. I have been advising applicants and holders for over 25 years. If you want accurate information:
www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

e-mail us and we will put this crazy discussion to bed once and for all. I deal with attorneys and with Federal court filings on a weekly basis and it pains me to see misinformation being passed around on a forum like this.

If not for your original avatar, this discussion would never have reached over 140 posts. Time for you gentlemen to stand down.

Billy Jack
www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 7:57 AM
Thanks Billy Jack.

Considering I didn't even put up an avatar at all until 2 pages into the discussion, I didn't think being female had anything to do with it in the beginning...but I did reconsider once I put up a pic and now I'm thinking even having the fact that I'm female in my username is a bad idea...

I'm probably going to create some enemies when I say this, but I know I'm not the first to bring it up. Within the gun community, and obviously on this forum, there are some who consider shooting and anything relating to guns a "male" thing. Obviously if you're male you know more about guns & shooting, are a better shot, "understand" the law better, are more "educated," etc. And really, that's a very sad thing. You'd think women would be welcomed more- we become gun store customers, NRA & CALguns members & donors (YES, I've donated. Have you?), grass roots campaign organizers, etc. And if there's one thing that we WILL do, it's protect our right to protect our family. You would THINK that men would recognize the advantages of having educated and experienced "mama bears" on their side of the gun control issue...but I already know that's not the case. I've been to the range, I've been into certain gun shops and been treated like crap. And I've also laughed hysterically when the smart ***, macho guy next to me at the range makes derogatory comments to me only to then see his mouth drops when he sees me shoot. The idea that I would have to limit my posts to the "ladies forum" is also absurd. If you men can't deal with women without trying to prove your superiority, you have serious problems.

The idea that a woman cannot simply post she obtained a CCW and answer a few simple questions without turning into what it turned into is just sad. You will notice that I did not ask any questions. I wasn't unclear about what my CCW allows me to do or not do. But that's not good enough. I had to be proven wrong. Is it because I'm female? I don't know, but it does seem like it.

I can handle a couple stupid requests for a larger avatar picture from an obviously immature loser, and I hadn't totally factored in the anonomity as I should have, but I have a feeling that being taken seriously and being respected for actually knowing anything is probably too much to ask from SOME members of the forum, regardless of whether my hair's blonde, black or purple.... And if you're one of those macho men who feels threatened by a gal with a gun, or thinks we don't know as much because we're female, then maybe you ought to check yourself.

And for those couple people who took me seriously and listened to what I had to say as if it actually had any weight, thank you.

Now if ya'all want to continue arguing amongst yourselves, have at it. I will continue to carry my loaded weapon in my purse in my car while I drive through a school zone, and it's not because I'm not educated, don't understand the law, or haven't factored in how many schools there are where I drive...

paul0660
01-07-2010, 7:58 AM
Hmmm, just when I need it, I can't find the arrogant jerk smilie!

pullnshoot25
01-07-2010, 8:04 AM
3boyxmom

I have watched two days of misinformation posted to your original post. Your avatar was a testosterone magnet. You are still being provided misinformation. I have been advising applicants and holders for over 25 years. If you want accurate information:
www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

e-mail us and we will put this crazy discussion to bed once and for all. I deal with attorneys and with Federal court filings on a weekly basis and it pains me to see misinformation being passed around on a forum like this.

If not for your original avatar, this discussion would never have reached over 140 posts. Time for you gentlemen to stand down.

Billy Jack
www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

Damn dude, thats kinda harsh. I came for the discussion but whatever.

Thanks Billy Jack.

Considering I didn't even put up an avatar at all until 2 pages into the discussion, I didn't think being female had anything to do with it in the beginning...but I did reconsider once I put up a pic and now I'm thinking even having the fact that I'm female in my username is a bad idea...

I'm probably going to create some enemies when I say this, but I know I'm not the first to bring it up. Within the gun community, and obviously on this forum, there are some who consider shooting and anything relating to guns a "male" thing. Obviously if you're male you know more about guns & shooting, are a better shot, "understand" the law better, are more "educated," etc. And really, that's a very sad thing. You'd think women would be welcomed more- we become gun store customers, NRA & CALguns members & donors (YES, I've donated. Have you?), grass roots campaign organizers, etc. And if there's one thing that we WILL do, it's protect our right to protect our family. You would THINK that men would recognize the advantages of having educated and experienced "mama bears" on their side of the gun control issue...but I already know that's not the case. I've been to the range, I've been into certain gun shops and been treated like crap. And I've also laughed hysterically when the smart ***, macho guy next to me at the range makes derogatory comments to me only to then see his mouth drops when he sees me shoot. The idea that I would have to limit my posts to the "ladies forum" is also absurd. If you men can't deal with women without trying to prove your superiority, you have serious problems.

The idea that a woman cannot simply post she obtained a CCW and answer a few simple questions without turning into what it turned into is just sad. You will notice that I did not ask any questions. I wasn't unclear about what my CCW allows me to do or not do. But that's not good enough. I had to be proven wrong. Is it because I'm female? I don't know, but it does seem like it.

I can handle a couple stupid requests for a larger avatar picture from an obviously immature loser, and I hadn't totally factored in the anonomity as I should have, but I have a feeling that being taken seriously and being respected for actually knowing anything is probably too much to ask from SOME members of the forum, regardless of whether my hair's blonde, black or purple.... And if you're one of those macho men who feels threatened by a gal with a gun, or thinks we don't know as much because we're female, then maybe you ought to check yourself.

And for those couple people who took me seriously and listened to what I had to say as if it actually had any weight, thank you.

Now if ya'all want to continue arguing amongst yourselves, have at it. I will continue to carry my loaded weapon in my purse in my car while I drive through a school zone, and it's not because I'm not educated, don't understand the law, or haven't factored in how many schools there are where I drive...

Umm... I think we all appreciate women and education and a combination of the two on this board. I know I do, especially since the Marksmanship Club down here has about 20 of them.

But hey, I am just one guy.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:09 AM
Yep, you're just one guy. That was a blanket statment that certainly didn't apply to ALL members of the forum...but I think there are several who should re-examine how the fact that I am female affected their attitude towards me and the information I provided. That's all.

Starscream
01-07-2010, 8:13 AM
OMG GIRL ON THE INTERNETTTT!!!!!!!



:chris:





:p

Gray Peterson
01-07-2010, 8:16 AM
Women are better snipers than men. That being said, Billy Jack can usually steer you towards getting this ridiculous 1000 foot restriction removed the proper way.

liketoshoot
01-07-2010, 8:21 AM
3boyzmom, my wife is a better shot then I am, my daughter is learning to shoot better and will pass by both my wife and I, at least I hope so.
As for you being a women, so what you still breath and eat and .. well. Men that get uptight about a women shooting or being able to defend themselfs are just weak and most men on here are not that way, just some need to grow up.
Keep shooting and don't give up on us.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:25 AM
Oh I won't... I know there are plenty of great guys who don't have the same issues about women & shooting- my comments were specifically directed at those on this thread who seemed to have a need to prove me wrong, uneducated or otherwise inadequate...

shark92651
01-07-2010, 8:27 AM
Yep, you're just one guy. That was a blanket statment that certainly didn't apply to ALL members of the forum...but I think there are several who should re-examine how the fact that I am female affected their attitude towards me and the information I provided. That's all.

I don't think your gender had as much to do about the direction this thread took as you think. Pretty much any thread on an internet forum can go south and diverge into different paths. I think a lot of people, myself included, read about the restriction and though it was too much and sparked the discussion. You get a lot of uninformed advice mixed in with the well informed advice on a forum, tossed in with some random jokes and totally off-topic posts. This would have happened no matter what your gender. It's pretty much the nature of an internet forum. It's always going to take a few posts from a new member before people realize if they know what they are talking about or are clueless. Trust me, you come across as a lot more informed than a LOT of the guys that post on this forum :D

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:35 AM
Yeah, I hear ya on the ways forums can go south....and I have no problem with the discussion about the restriction- it did make me think (always a good thing) but I don't think what I had to say was taken seriously by many- and I think there was quite an effor to prove me wrong or uneducated. Maybe that's just how some people are and had nothing to do with the fact that I am female. Totally possible.

And if there's one thing I have going for me it's that I DO try to inform myself, and I realize I'm not an expert at much of anything...real estate excepted.

Stargazer
01-07-2010, 8:36 AM
Yep, you're just one guy. That was a blanket statment that certainly didn't apply to ALL members of the forum...but I think there are several who should re-examine how the fact that I am female affected their attitude towards me and the information I provided. That's all.

It might be too late, but I would like to urge you not to get discouraged about Calguns. We do need more women to participate in the main forums.

Every new point of view from a member with a different background will make our community richer. The people with small minds will come around, or learn to hold their tongues with time.

While I'm not a mindreader, I do believe that Grammarton and Billy Jack were genuinely trying to help. A lot of good people at Calguns are concerned at this time about the pending legal cases, because wins are anticipated, so some of these people might be a bit more assertive in their helpful efforts.

Hope you will keep participating.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:45 AM
Oh, I've never been one to back down easily, although I don't enjoy conflict and it would be very nice to just have a conversation and express my understanding of something without some of the "posturing" that takes place...I did receive a PM apology from one poster, and I do think Billy Jack was trying to help. I already expressed that I just wasn't sure what to make of Grammarton- he came out so negative and so contentious from pretty much the first minute- but I'm the new one here and it's entirely possible he didn't mean to come off that way...but in general I am turned off by anyone who comes off as a know it all, and I'm sorry but he certainly did... but I had not considered that he might simply be looking at this from a different legal angle...thanks.

socal2310
01-07-2010, 9:09 AM
Yeah, I hear ya on the ways forums can go south....and I have no problem with the discussion about the restriction- it did make me think (always a good thing) but I don't think what I had to say was taken seriously by many- and I think there was quite an effor to prove me wrong or uneducated. Maybe that's just how some people are and had nothing to do with the fact that I am female. Totally possible.

And if there's one thing I have going for me it's that I DO try to inform myself, and I realize I'm not an expert at much of anything...real estate excepted.

Don't take it too personally. Just wait until you actually have a question and then have to wade through 100+ posts before you find one with useful information. On the other hand, I keep coming back and reading because there certainly are diamonds among all the rocks on this website.

Incidentally, you might find wading through the posts a little less frustrating if you change your settings from the default of ten posts per page to the maximum of fifty.

Ryan

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 9:25 AM
The funny thing is I was here about a year ago and asked several questions about obtaining a CCW. Of course there were some responses that were not helpful at all ("don't bother.") And there were some who just flat-out laughed at the idea...But many people had good information to share. And the conversation ended with "be sure to keep us posted," and "let us know how it goes."

So, my OP was an attempt to do just that- just to let the forum know that Sac County had, in fact, issued me the CCW, which is what I considered to be good news...

1911su16b870
01-07-2010, 9:35 AM
Welcome to calguns 3boyzmom and congrats on the CCW.

I tend not to post in the 2A forum due to the potential of impending flame fests, but overall can say if you have the time to go through the info, there is alot of usefull stuff here.

Kestryll
01-07-2010, 9:47 AM
This thread has come to my attention twice now.

That's NOT a good thing.

Stick to the topic at hand, leave the leg-humping at the door and keep it civil.

paul0660
01-07-2010, 9:50 AM
I long ago forgot the topic at hand. It will be nice if the mom talks to the LEOs and Billyjack and lets us know how it goes.

Black Majik
01-07-2010, 9:53 AM
Congratulations on your CCW! :thumbsup:

HUTCH 7.62
01-07-2010, 10:03 AM
Just wanted to post the good news that I was approved and have now RECEIVED my CA CCW in Sacramento County. As a CA real estate broker, my "just cause" is the fact I often collect rents in cash and I serve eviction notices in rural parts of the county. It took 5 months to get approval and then about a month and a half to process everything once my class completion/shooting qualification was turned in.

Congrats. I wish I could get a CCW in Sunnyvale

MrClamperSir
01-07-2010, 10:12 AM
....restrictions on CCW licenses are a natural consequence of the increasing publicity of UOC in California and LOC nationwide.

And you know this how?

One of the reasons that California CCW licenses have so few statutory exceptions is because their issue is purely discretionary. Post-Sykes, once that discretion has been removed, I'd fully expect to see a barrage of legislation restricting when, where and how a CCW could be exercised. Sure, some of those restrictions might be so extreme as to negate the right and be found unconstitutional (after expensive and time-consuming litigation). But many others would likely stand as reasonable (including a 1000' gun-free school zone).

So we should do what, nothing to advance shall issue?

Welcome to the world of consequences.

I don't get your point here.

To the OP, congratulations. Reading through all the posts was enlightening. I do think that people can get a little too heavy in their opinions based on what they have heard. However, I think a very small percentage of post (obviously the avatar comments) has anything to do with the fact that you are a lady. That's just they way it goes around here. As you can see the right people come along and the right information is passed along to ALL of us.

Great post and good luck with the restriction being lifted.

Glock22Fan
01-07-2010, 10:29 AM
Yep, if it says you can only carry while standing on your head in the back yard of Buddhist temple that's all you can do.

BTW, Bill Jack, has anyone mentioned that you usually seem to come off as having an abundance of self esteem?

As one of my colleagues once said about another colleague, "I can put up with arrogance if it is backed by knowledge and ability. In his case it isn't."

In Billy Jack's case, it definitely is.

twotap
01-07-2010, 10:40 AM
You have gotten alot of great info in the last couple pages, IMO You have given out far too much personal info in the last 2 days,(face ,job, size of family, area you may be in)for your own safety IF any of it is even true. If your CCW truly states what it does MAYBE it was just a token. IF you would like it changed the people on this forum are probably some of the best in the state to help you .(my opinion, others may not agree) I do think thou you got the reaction you wanted from the apes with key boards. Hope you the best either way.

Glock22Fan
01-07-2010, 10:42 AM
3boyzmom, my wife is a better shot then I am, my daughter is learning to shoot better and will pass by both my wife and I, at least I hope so.
As for you being a women, so what you still breath and eat and .. well. Men that get uptight about a women shooting or being able to defend themselfs are just weak and most men on here are not that way, just some need to grow up.
Keep shooting and don't give up on us.

My wife is also a better shot than me, without even bothering to practice :( -- but she is less interested in guns.

In case you haven't found it yet, 3boyzmom, there's a website that you will like, www.corneredcat.com (http://www.corneredcat.com)

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 10:54 AM
You have gotten alot of great info in the last couple pages, IMO You have given out far too much personal info in the last 2 days,(face ,job, size of family, area you may be in)for your own safety IF any of it is even true.

(Point taken- I have been more specific with where I work than where I live. But as a real estate broker, that's pretty much everywhere. And I did take my pic down after I thought about it, even before it was suggested. You'll notice, however, that there are many women on the site with their pictures as their avatars. I decided it probably wasn't the best idea, then had that decision backed up by a couple posters who mentioned the same.)

If your CCW truly states what it does MAYBE it was just a token. (It does. ALL Sac County permits state this.)

IF you would like it changed the people on this forum are probably some of the best in the state to help you .(my opinion, others may not agree) (working on that, thanks)

I do think thou you got the reaction you wanted from the apes with key boards. (Right- that's why I came here- to get a "reaction." That's why the original pic I posted was one of those sexy, chick in a bikini carrying a gun pictures. :rolleyes: That's probably not a comment you would make to a man- but I'm getting used to having my motives and my abilities questioned because I'm a woman. I don't care if you think I'm here to get attention. That's your opinion. And you're wrong.)

Hope you the best either way. Thanks.

pullnshoot25
01-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Oh, I've never been one to back down easily, although I don't enjoy conflict and it would be very nice to just have a conversation and express my understanding of something without some of the "posturing" that takes place...I did receive a PM apology from one poster, and I do think Billy Jack was trying to help. I already expressed that I just wasn't sure what to make of Grammarton- he came out so negative and so contentious from pretty much the first minute- but I'm the new one here and it's entirely possible he didn't mean to come off that way...but in general I am turned off by anyone who comes off as a know it all, and I'm sorry but he certainly did... but I had not considered that he might simply be looking at this from a different legal angle...thanks.

He is a unique fellow (personal friend) and I am certain he meant no harm.

twotap
01-07-2010, 11:04 AM
No I think were all bozos on the same bus .Woman ,man or ape with a keyboard.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 11:06 AM
In case you haven't found it yet, 3boyzmom, there's a website that you will like, www.corneredcat.com (http://www.corneredcat.com)

Thanks! I'm there now and will probably spend (waste, lol) hours there. Sick kids today- nothing better to do than sit on this computer. Who wants to clean house?

professorhard
01-07-2010, 11:22 AM
Even after ignoring you the first time, you tried again? Nice try- ain't happenin'...

Glad to see a female can be taken seriously by most of the forum members, however :D


Sorry 3boyzmom I didn't mean to sound like an idiot but I thought u looked really pretty in that pic. I realize that it sounded weird asking to post fullsize and I don't want you to think that there's a bunch of creepers on CGN. My apologies.

CSDGuy
01-07-2010, 11:32 AM
I'd have to agree... that picture really IS a well done photo. It's just that now that you have a CCW, anonymity should become your best friend (at least on internet forums). People that know you (for good or bad) now potentially know you own guns. Since you went with a more "generic" avatar, you've removed the chance that people might recognize you from your avatar.

Remember, concealed means concealed.

I don't use a personal picture of me as an avatar for similar reasons, even though I don't have a CCW.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 11:41 AM
Thanks Professor & CSDGuy....I did think the pilot pic was more "in cognito," but my current avatar has more meaning anyways. I have a good friend who has Cancer, and he described it as the gorilla in the corner of the room who every now and then stands up and wants to be fed bananas. One day I told him, "F*** the gorilla. Stop feeding him & KILL the bastard!!" So I went to the range and shot up that target to help him visualize it...

Anyways, the idea of concealment and anonomity is something I've talked about at legnth with my kids too. Teenage boys think it's really "cool" their mom's packin', and we've had many heart-to-hearts about how important it is that they don't tell anyone- not even their close friends. But I guess I let my guard down for some stupid reason being in a forum of all "like-minded" individuals, and then came to my senses. So, thanks for the reminder.

Old Timer
01-07-2010, 11:51 AM
Your understanding is correct. It is extremely unfortunate that the Sheriff chose to put that outrageous restriction on your CCW. It makes it practically worthless when in an urban setting.Only if she is drunk and/or in a bar! :D:D

DVLDOC
01-07-2010, 11:52 AM
Congrats on the CCW permit!

Liberty1
01-07-2010, 12:02 PM
I will still see if I can get the restriction lifted. I think it is a reasonable request due to the nature of my job. In fact, there is a house for sale right across the street from the elementary school in town right now and I will use that as a potential scenario that could cause a problem for me.

^^This^^ and the fact that unholstering and even unloading for storage and lock-up is way too much unnecessary handling potentially many times a day which increases a risk of discharge. Even with my department we are not to unholster (except in self defense) unless it is to unload at a discharge barrel filled with sand or for placement in a gun locker to enter the jail.

Sidearms should remain loaded and holstered period.

Old Timer
01-07-2010, 12:11 PM
But I think there are several who should re-examine how the fact that I am female affected their attitude towards me. Me? I like girls! I even married one! :D:D

DarkHorse
01-07-2010, 12:34 PM
Off-topic: The max is 40 posts per page, not 50.

To the OP: Congrats on deciding to defend yourself, and not be a sheeple. There are bozos everywhere, as I'm sure you know. Some of the really skilled ones can be hard to avoid, but this forum also offers an "Ignore List" for users you find are routinely idiotic and useless. There is a wealth of info on this site, if you're willing to wade through random junk to get it. I hope you're able to get this ludicrous restriction removed. You've been given good advice, and it looks like you're on your way to taking care of things.

Good luck to you.

supersonic
01-07-2010, 3:35 PM
To the OP: Congrats on deciding to defend yourself, and not be a sheeple.

Too bad 'others' have had to make that same decision, even though they were refused 'permission' to do so, which puts them at risk of consequences. But being in trouble is better than being dead.;)

bodger
01-07-2010, 3:42 PM
Too bad 'others' have had to make that same decision, even though they were refused 'permission' to do so, which puts them at risk of consequences. But being in trouble is better than being dead.;)


Like those of us (non-celebrities) in Los Angeles who don't have a snowball's chance of getting a CCW.

Congrats on getting the license 3boyzmom. I just don't understand how an issuing agency can place such a restriction on a CCW. Where I live, I would have to lock that firearm up every three blocks if I were expected to avoid getting in trouble over the 1000' GFSZ restriction.

It's another case of "Have some tea, there isn't any" said the March Hare.

Cokebottle
01-07-2010, 4:00 PM
If your permit is invalid within a school zone, passing through a school zone is definitely a problem per the wording of the law.
And the problem with this is that it is actually even MORE restrictive than 626.9. 626.9 includes an exemption for a school that the person carrying is unaware of, private property, places of residence, and places of business.
This restriction simply states "within 1000ft" with no qualifications or exemptions.

But if you want to get technical, since I LIVE within 1000 ft of a school as the crow flies, I could be arrested for standing in my front yard with my gun in my holster, concealed by my vest? There's NO room for common sense? Please....
Sadly, there seems to be no room for common sense in Sacramento. As I said to Gram, your restriction is actually more restrictive than the restrictions placed upon "Joe Average" in that there is no qualification that you must even KNOW of the presence of the school, nor are there exceptions for private property as there are with 626.9.

Ordinarily, "Joe Average" would be legal if he were to pass unknowingly within 1000ft of a school while driving on the freeway while legally open-carrying (gun not locked, in plain view). Your restriction doesn't have that exemption, so yes... if you live within 1000ft of a school, you would be in violation in your own front yard.
Another way of visualizing just how huge of a distance this is, which helps me because I attend football games a lot, is that 1000' is a little over THREE football fields. At that distance, even with nothing blocking your view, you'd be lucky to be able to make out the school, and certainly wouldn't even be able to see your kids if they were standing at the edge of the school's property.
I've posted this a couple of times before. This is the GFSZ surrounding Chino High School. Of course, there are surrounding schools that intersect and extend the zone, but this map shows 3 major roadways that would create a violation for someone passing through town, and unless it is night and the stadium lights are on, there is ZERO indication that the school is there. A bit further west, there are two schools that would actually trigger a violation on the freeway!

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/chhs.jpg

Cokebottle
01-07-2010, 4:27 PM
One day I told him, "F*** the gorilla. Stop feeding him & KILL the bastard!!" So I went to the range and shot up that target to help him visualize it.
I love it.

Never saw the original photo that attracted so much attention.

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 4:37 PM
Wow there is a TON of attitude in this thread... From ALL sides of the discussion. All I read was a few people trying to be helpful and point out that in exact words your permit says "NOT VALID" and a school zone violation is possible. Then the attitude exploded about sexist remarks, or just assumptions. Actually I felt more offended at the OPs comments about calguns members and moderators. A lot of overreactions there.

Wish no assumptions about who you are, what sex you are, or what you know, I'd still be inclined to believe that "not valid" and "a person holding a valid license to carry" are mutually exclusive. No jealousy here, they give out CCW permits like candy up here. Your right to carry has been unreasonably restricted, and it's dangerous for your freedom to continue carrying before that restriction is removed from your permit. I'm always one of the first to say that if you aren't in danger of being pulled over and searched, it's mostly a non-issue, carry all the time. Don't assume there is common sense in the application of the law.

Cokebottle
01-07-2010, 4:47 PM
No jealousy here, they give out CCW permits like candy up here. Your right to carry has been unreasonably restricted, and it's dangerous for your freedom to continue carrying before that restriction is removed from your permit.
And this brings up another interesting "equal protection" issue that could perhaps be used to get the courts to eliminate these insane restrictions in a similar manner that we may be able to force shall-issue.

YOU have a Shasta permit. It is legal in the entire state, including Los Angeles, AND including within 1000ft of schools in Sacramento. You have no restrictions on your permit other than the standard alcohol-related restrictions.

Why should she not be allowed the right to carry and defend herself at the exact same location that you is are, when she is a resident of that county and you aren't?

mej16489
01-07-2010, 5:03 PM
And this brings up another interesting "equal protection" issue that could perhaps be used to get the courts to eliminate these insane restrictions in a similar manner that we may be able to force shall-issue.

YOU have a Shasta permit. It is legal in the entire state, including Los Angeles, AND including within 1000ft of schools in Sacramento. You have no restrictions on your permit other than the standard alcohol-related restrictions.

Why should she not be allowed the right to carry and defend herself at the exact same location that you is are, when she is a resident of that county and you aren't?

I don't have any such 'standard alcohol related restrictions' on my rice paper.

I think the key aspect to these 'reasonable restriction as to time, place and manner' is the reasonableness factor. I think its completely unreasonable to put a GFSZ restriction on a permit considering the likelyhood of entering one of those zones in the course of day to day activities.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:11 PM
Wow there is a TON of attitude in this thread... From ALL sides of the discussion. All I read was a few people trying to be helpful and point out that in exact words your permit says "NOT VALID" and a school zone violation is possible. Then the attitude exploded about sexist remarks, or just assumptions. Actually I felt more offended at the OPs comments about calguns members and moderators. A lot of overreactions there.

Keep in mind you read stuff from these posters all the time. I'm new-and the first things I'm told are I don't know enough, I don't take it seriously enough, lock my gun up, I need to spend more time on the forum, I don't understand the law, I don't know how far 1000 ft is, blah, blah, blah...and instead of just having a conversation about what that restriction could and could not mean, some members made it personal. Did I feel a bit attacked? Yes I did. And I'm not the only one who thought I was treated differently because I'm female...did anyone take what I had to say seriously? No. They just kept on arguing how I didn't understand- even after Gene said exactly what I had been saying since the beginning....

So I'm sorry if you were offended, and I clearly was not talking about ALL calgun members and moderators, but perhaps some people should just stick to the issues at hand and actually HELP someone instead of posturing and trying to prove they're better than me. Maybe you missed that. And maybe I overreacted- probably a combination of both.

I still maintain- and I posted this earlier but nobody cared- that there are 2 ways of thinking and NONE of us KNOW which one is correct- except I choose to believe that Gene knows what he's talking about... One side says it is a felony to be within 1000 ft of a school because the permit says "not valid." and The other group says it is a COUNTY restriction and not a law, and therefore not a violation of the law, but only punishable by having my permit yanked...

Cokebottle
01-07-2010, 5:23 PM
I don't have any such 'standard alcohol related restrictions' on my rice paper.
I thought it was in state law... permit is invalid while consuming alcohol or in a place where the primary purpose is to serve alcohol?

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:28 PM
from the Sacsheriff application itself:

• While exercising the permit and carrying a weapon, no alcohol consumption is permitted.
• No permitted weapon is allowed where weapons are prohibited by law.
• No permitted weapon is allowed at locations where a sign is posted prohibiting weapons.
• No permitted weapon is allowed within 1,000 feet of any school grounds.
• The Sheriff may impose additional restrictions.
Failure of the permit holder to adhere to these restrictions will result in the revocation of the concealed weapons permit."

So, they will revoke your permit...but that is different than you permit being invalid, and therefore being a reason for arrest.

So here's a question...as a permit holder I'm required to know what the local restrictions/ordinances are in the various counties I would carry my gun, correct? If this is a restriction in the County, wouldn't it apply to everyone regardless of where their CCW was issued? Another question- my instructor told me not to carry at all in SF, but I don't know why....

kf6tac
01-07-2010, 5:33 PM
If this is a restriction in the County, wouldn't it apply to everyone regardless of where their CCW was issued?

The issue here (which I don't know the answer to) is whether it's a county restriction on all carrying of firearms, or if it's a county restriction on county-issued concealed carry permits. In the former case, yes, it would apply to everyone regardless of where they got their permit. In the latter case, it would only apply to permits issued by Sacramento County.

Another question- my instructor told me not to carry at all in SF, but I don't know why....

This might be bad advice based on outdated information. SF passed a city-wide handgun ban back in 2005 that was subsequently struck down by the courts.

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 5:37 PM
ALL restrictions are either in the PC 12050 or printed on your license. YOUR license says you can't go within 1000' of any school or the permit becomes INVALID. Where is the confusion? You say that the words "not valid" are printed on the permit. "not valid" sounds like "invalid" to me... I can't be alone on that point.

State law preempts county restrictions. Nothing but what is stated on the permit is a valid restriction.

Unfortunately your instructor and the application lead you to believe otherwise.

IE, YOU can't come up here and wander around a school with your CCW. Your permit is not valid within 1000' of a school, and you are violating both 12025 and 12031. (IMHO). However, everyone who has a CCW from apparently any other county that issues CCWs CAN be within 1000' of schools, because their permits remain valid.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:38 PM
Ah- I understand on both parts...I didn't take my gun to SF and the whole time thought how that's where I really DID need it...except I don't know where the schools are! :sweatdrop:

kf6tac
01-07-2010, 5:41 PM
Ah- I understand on both parts...I didn't take my gun to SF and the whole time thought how that's where I really DID need it...except I don't know where the schools are! :sweatdrop:

Heh, yeah, schools in true urban city areas are especially tricky because they don't look like the picture we all have in our head when we think 'school' (playground, sprawling flat buildings, sports field, etc.). When I was living in NYC I always felt like schools would just appear out of nowhere every time I rounded a corner.

Kid Stanislaus
01-07-2010, 5:43 PM
Just wanted to post the good news that I was approved and have now RECEIVED my CA CCW in Sacramento County. As a CA real estate broker, my "just cause" is the fact I often collect rents in cash and I serve eviction notices in rural parts of the county. It took 5 months to get approval and then about a month and a half to process everything once my class completion/shooting qualification was turned in.

So the rest of us who just want to be able to protect ourselves and our loved ones are still SOL because we don't handle large amounts of cash or toss ner'do wells out on their butts. Go ahead and celebrate but I'm not going to join in.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:44 PM
Where is the confusion? You say that the words "not valid" are printed on the permit. "not valid" sounds like "invalid" to me... I can't be alone on that point.

Ummm- weren't you just discussing attitude? I'm not the only one who disagrees with you on this...but again, you're obviously right and I'm obviously wrong...or I'm just confused and you're not. Gotcha.

Unfortunately your instructor and the application lead you to believe otherwise.

OK, Gene's wrong too.

IE, YOU can't come up here and wander around a school with your CCW. Your permit is not valid within 1000' of a school, and you are violating both 12025 and 12031. (IMHO). However, everyone who has a CCW from apparently any other county that issues CCWs CAN be within 1000' of schools, because their permits remain valid.
That's what I was asking. Thanks. Anyone else want to chime in on that last part? Because if that's true, I can see where there is a problem under equal protection, and it's certainly not right that someone from another county could carry somewhere I can't...

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 5:44 PM
Look at the school zone map for SF... There really isn't any place you could go there under that restriction.
I don't get it, are you two different people? One suspicious and angry, the other inquisitive and patient?

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:50 PM
So the rest of us who just want to be able to protect ourselves and our loved ones are still SOL because we don't handle large amounts of cash or toss ner'do wells out on their butts. Go ahead and celebrate but I'm not going to join in.

FOR THE RECORD, AGAIN- I was asked by several on this forum a year ago to let the members know if I was successful in obtaining my CCW in Sac County, so I did. You don't have to care and I don't expect you to celebrate.

And just because I have mine doesn't mean I won't still fight...I already wrote my letters to the assemby members on the public safety committe to support AB357. I think CA should be a "shall issue" state, like NV- where I also have a CCW...

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:54 PM
I don't get it, are you two different people? One suspicious and angry, the other inquisitive and patient?

No, I really want to know- I am inquisitive...but the whole "I'm right, you're wrong" thing just gets to me after awhile. You and I do not agree on what the restriction means, and that does not make me confused.

andalusi
01-07-2010, 5:55 PM
Look at the school zone map for SF... There really isn't any place you could go there under that restriction.
I don't get it, are you two different people? One suspicious and angry, the other inquisitive and patient?

You don't respond differently when someone's rude out of the blue to you as opposed to engaging in civil discussion? 3boyzmom is acting like any normal person would to some of the attitude in this thread.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 5:57 PM
You don't respond differently when someone's rude out of the blue to you as opposed to engaging in civil discussion? 3boyzmom is acting like any normal person would to some of the attitude in this thread.

Thank you. :D

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 6:02 PM
I'm really not trying to fight, or say I'm right you're wrong.
I'm reading and quoting the applicable codes here, and stating that I don't agree that the only consequence of your actions would be revoking your permit.

From PC 12050 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12050.html) (b) A license may include any reasonable restrictions or
conditions which the issuing authority deems warranted, including
restrictions as to the time, place, manner, and circumstances under
which the person may carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person.
(c) Any restrictions imposed pursuant to subdivision (b) shall be
indicated on any license issued.


On your license, according to you, it says What it says EXACTLY is the following: "not valid within 1000' of any school/if consuming alcohol or remaining at any establishment that primarily serves alcohol."
Reply With Quote

Then you stated So, they will revoke your permit...but that is different than you permit being invalid, and therefore being a reason for arrest.

Maybe I'm just trying to drill home the point.

PC 12027 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html)
Section 12025 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html) does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 12050).


PC 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html)
(6) The carrying of pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable
of being concealed upon the person by persons who are authorized to
carry those weapons pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section
12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4.


PC 626.9 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/626.9.html)
(l) This section does not apply to ...... a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4,

I think, that by the way the restrictions are stated on your permit, if you were carrying concealed a loaded gun within 1000' of a school, that you would be violating ALL THREE of those laws. That's what, one felony and two misdemeanors? Or because it would be in commission of a felony, two felonies, one misdemeanor? That's a lot to risk! (I'm usually wrong about the felony/misdemeanor thing)

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 6:28 PM
1. The Sacramento County 1000' CCW restriction is a restriction that as far as I can ascertain is on all CCWs issued in that county.

2. 3boyzmom is correct that she is exempt from both the state and federal GFSZ by virtue of being in possession of a 12050 license.

3. However, Sacramento can revoke her permit for violating the 1000' restriction. She would not face charges as she was licensed at the time the would potentially find her within 1000'.

4. After Sykes, we will not let such silly restrictions stand.

-Gene

My understanding is he knows more than I do...

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 6:37 PM
Being in possession of an invalid permit would be like driving with a suspended license. It's not any good until you get it back / exit the 1000' zone.

Having the piece of paper with you doesn't necessarily make it any good. By that logic, you could be carrying someone else's permit and be GTG....

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 6:42 PM
Wasn't the question whether or not I would face charges? Didn't Gene clear that up? I don't know your background, but I gotta' figure Gene knows more than either of us. If he had posted that I was wrong and it was a felony because my license was invalid, I would've listened....

Glock22Fan
01-07-2010, 6:45 PM
Coming back to S.F. for a moment, and ignoring the fact that S.F. may well be covered in school zones that would clash with the OP's restrictions, S.F. has tried to foster the myth that CCW's issued by other counties are simply not valid in S.F. On the one hand, this is complete FUD. On the other hand, the LEO's in S.F. have been told that this is the case, and behave (we are told) accordingly. Thus, if a CCW holder is found carrying in S.F. they can look forward to being hassled. At the end of the day, you should be OK, but it might be a day you'd rather not have had.

No actual cases reported to my knowledge, but it may be where all the "Do not carry in S.F." comes from.

bodger
01-07-2010, 6:45 PM
So the rest of us who just want to be able to protect ourselves and our loved ones are still SOL because we don't handle large amounts of cash or toss ner'do wells out on their butts. Go ahead and celebrate but I'm not going to join in.


Every CCW that gets issued in this state is a good thing for the furtherance of 2A rights, in my opinion.

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 6:45 PM
Since when is the letter or spirit of the law relevant to charges being filed?

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 6:47 PM
Thanks Glock22. I couldn't remember if I was told it actually wasn't valid, or if the instructor just said it wasn't a good idea...but what you said makes sense.

bodger
01-07-2010, 6:49 PM
Coming back to S.F. for a moment, and ignoring the fact that S.F. may well be covered in school zones that would clash with the OP's restrictions, S.F. has tried to foster the myth that CCW's issued by other counties are simply not valid in S.F. On the one hand, this is complete FUD. On the other hand, the LEO's in S.F. have been told that this is the case, and behave (we are told) accordingly. Thus, if a CCW holder is found carrying in S.F. they can look forward to being hassled. At the end of the day, you should be OK, but it might be a day you'd rather not have had.

No actual cases reported to my knowledge, but it may be where all the "Do not carry in S.F." comes from.


It amazes me how some of these jurisdictions can just make up their own laws, or foment lies and FUD that become so widely accepted that even the LEOs are hassling people in the name of laws that don't even exist.

Guns are bad, so you're a criminal. We're taking your gun.

KylaGWolf
01-07-2010, 6:50 PM
Congrats is in order......I Wonder how hard it is to get a CCW if you are disabled??

I am a disabled female in San Diego I was told not to even bother applying. When I was attacked at my school. So being handicapped is not always going to do anything to make it easier and in some counties could make it even harder.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 6:51 PM
Since when is the letter or spirit of the law relevant to charges being filed?

Hey Dave- you can keep arguing if you'd like. I'm sticking with Gene.

Librarian
01-07-2010, 6:54 PM
Being in possession of an invalid permit would be like driving with a suspended license. It's not any good until you get it back / exit the 1000' zone.

Having the piece of paper with you doesn't necessarily make it any good. By that logic, you could be carrying someone else's permit and be GTG....

I began with bigcalidave's position, and it still looks right to me. However, Gene is a principal participant in Sykes (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Sykes_v._McGinness), and the legal team there has had ample opportunity and reason to look at the Sacramento County CCW in detail. If that group interprets the law differently from my understanding, I'll defer to them.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 6:56 PM
I began with bigcalidave's position, and it still looks right to me. However, Gene is a principal participant in Sykes (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Sykes_v._McGinness), and the legal team there has had ample opportunity and reason to look at the Sacramento County CCW in detail. If that group interprets the law differently from my understanding, I'll defer to them.

:yes:

Meplat
01-07-2010, 6:57 PM
Gene is good, no doubt. But if an Ahole DA decides to prosecute, be advised you may prevail, but it will be many thousands of dollars later. It is not fair, it is not just, it just is.;)


My understanding is he knows more than I do...

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 7:00 PM
Gene is good, no doubt. But if an Ahole DA decides to prosecute, be advised you may prevail, but it will be many thousands of dollars later. It is not fair, it is not just, it just is.;)

Yep. But I realized when I decided to carry a weapon that I could face that possibility...

I also realize if I actually have to shoot someone to defend my life, I may also end up with an expensive legal battle. And of course I don't hope for that, but it IS a reality of carrying a gun in CA. But it's a risk I'm willing to take in order to protect myself and my boys.

I do take this seriously, and I have given it A LOT of consideration.

Meplat
01-07-2010, 7:10 PM
The problem is the DAs don't always follow the law. And if they decide to prosecute, it's plead out or fight in court. Fighting in court is very expensive. Personally I doubt it's it's ever going to that level for a 5' 2" professional mom. But you should know the possibility exists. Search out the "Theseus" (hopefully someone can correct my spelling) case.

Wasn't the question whether or not I would face charges? Didn't Gene clear that up? I don't know your background, but I gotta' figure Gene knows more than either of us. If he had posted that I was wrong and it was a felony because my license was invalid, I would've listened....

KylaGWolf
01-07-2010, 7:15 PM
Thanks Billy Jack.

Considering I didn't even put up an avatar at all until 2 pages into the discussion, I didn't think being female had anything to do with it in the beginning...but I did reconsider once I put up a pic and now I'm thinking even having the fact that I'm female in my username is a bad idea...

I'm probably going to create some enemies when I say this, but I know I'm not the first to bring it up. Within the gun community, and obviously on this forum, there are some who consider shooting and anything relating to guns a "male" thing. Obviously if you're male you know more about guns & shooting, are a better shot, "understand" the law better, are more "educated," etc. And really, that's a very sad thing. You'd think women would be welcomed more- we become gun store customers, NRA & CALguns members & donors (YES, I've donated. Have you?), grass roots campaign organizers, etc. And if there's one thing that we WILL do, it's protect our right to protect our family. You would THINK that men would recognize the advantages of having educated and experienced "mama bears" on their side of the gun control issue...but I already know that's not the case. I've been to the range, I've been into certain gun shops and been treated like crap. And I've also laughed hysterically when the smart ***, macho guy next to me at the range makes derogatory comments to me only to then see his mouth drops when he sees me shoot. The idea that I would have to limit my posts to the "ladies forum" is also absurd. If you men can't deal with women without trying to prove your superiority, you have serious problems.

The idea that a woman cannot simply post she obtained a CCW and answer a few simple questions without turning into what it turned into is just sad. You will notice that I did not ask any questions. I wasn't unclear about what my CCW allows me to do or not do. But that's not good enough. I had to be proven wrong. Is it because I'm female? I don't know, but it does seem like it.

I can handle a couple stupid requests for a larger avatar picture from an obviously immature loser, and I hadn't totally factored in the anonomity as I should have, but I have a feeling that being taken seriously and being respected for actually knowing anything is probably too much to ask from SOME members of the forum, regardless of whether my hair's blonde, black or purple.... And if you're one of those macho men who feels threatened by a gal with a gun, or thinks we don't know as much because we're female, then maybe you ought to check yourself.

And for those couple people who took me seriously and listened to what I had to say as if it actually had any weight, thank you.

Now if ya'all want to continue arguing amongst yourselves, have at it. I will continue to carry my loaded weapon in my purse in my car while I drive through a school zone, and it's not because I'm not educated, don't understand the law, or haven't factored in how many schools there are where I drive...

Not all of here are men although it sometimes sure as hell feels like it. Don't let the jerks like that get to you in all honesty I think it is great you got your CCW. Gene gave you excellent advice. I hope that when you request it they will remove the restriction. And I also say kudos for wanting to continue to become more educated.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 7:17 PM
Yep. I think I just addressed that one post before yours.

And trust me, I'm familiar with court/attorney fees...I'm divorced. ;)

Oops- Kyla that was addressed for the post before yours....thanks! I am going to talk to them next Tuesday.

Cokebottle
01-07-2010, 7:40 PM
That's what I was asking. Thanks. Anyone else want to chime in on that last part? Because if that's true, I can see where there is a problem under equal protection, and it's certainly not right that someone from another county could carry somewhere I can't...
I'm with Dave on the last part.
Your restriction doesn't state "Within 1000ft of schools within Sacramento County"... it says "1000ft of any school".
Most other counties do not have that restriction on their permits, so the holders of those permits are not bound by that restriction even when in your county.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 7:48 PM
That bites!:cuss:

Cokebottle
01-07-2010, 7:56 PM
That bites!:cuss:
It does. That's why you need to petition to get it removed (using your good cause, deadbeats don't only live outside of school zones!), and ultimately, with incorporation and a Sykes victory behind us, we'll be able to get these arbitrary restrictions stricken from existence.

On the one hand, the SO hands you a permit that says "Yes, you are a person of good moral character and we now trust you enough to authorize you to carry a concealed weapon"... but on the other hand, they still say "But we're afraid that you're going to use your gun to shoot up a school"
It's frakking stupid, ESPECIALLY when CCW holders from other counties are not bound by the same restriction.

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 8:02 PM
Hey Dave- you can keep arguing if you'd like. I'm sticking with Gene.

And I wish you the best of luck with that. I hope you don't become another one of the stories we have to read about here, worrying about another calgunner losing their right to OWN a gun like Theseus did. Or being out 50 grand in legal fees for your defense like BWO.

If you are ever caught within 1000' of a school, doing what you have stated you will do by openly violating the restriction printed on your permit, they will make an example out of you. It's not like the people making these decisions are on our side, forced by legislation to uphold laws they don't believe in. These people do not want you (any of us) to be carrying guns. They won't go light on you because of "common sense". It's arrogant to believe that.

After incorporation, and after Sykes, these restrictions can be fought on a legal and constitutional basis. For now, the restrictions are legit.

Fot
01-07-2010, 8:12 PM
Well this has been an interesting thread to read.. 3Boyzmom welcome to calguns. I have to be honest though, with the exception of the pic request(s) I didn't see any gender bias. Your CCW and the resulting discussion/debate on what are the consequence's of violating the 1000' school zone still appear to me a grey area. Gene believes it's just a loss of your CCW privilege, as The Librian alludes to thinking it's a crime, although he does defer to Gene. These are two of the most respected posters on laws and regs, and are not %100 in agreement, so it should be no shock that the rest of us arm chair lawyers would further disagree. This doesn't have a clear cut court case to reference or a PC to quote. We had another spirited debate like this on a thread about Tannerite, that's why I don't think peoples disagreement or voicing concerns here had anything to do with Gender.

Feel free to disagree with me, I won't think you're "man-bashing":p

twotap
01-07-2010, 8:14 PM
Is it possable that she was issued( and others too!) such a restrictive permit that it is almost no permit at all so her county sheriff can say they DO issue? Kinda I did but you don't... Our drivers licences allow us to all drive on the same roads .What makes SAC CO. different.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:22 PM
If you are ever caught within 1000' of a school, doing what you have stated you will do by openly violating the restriction printed on your permit, they will make an example out of you.

A point of clarification please. I did not state I am going to openly violate the restriction. Quite the opposite- I said I planned to adhere to both the law AND the restrictions on my license as far as it was possible..and I also explained that I have already changed where I pick my kids up from school to comply with the restriction. I have never meant to imply that I was willing to openly violate the restriction. I also explained that one of the reasons I did not carry in SF was I was not familiar with where the schools are...

I don't want my permit pulled, and of course I don't want to deal with a court case/possible charges. But there is also a difference to me whether it IS a felony or COULD BE a felony- the law is open to interpretation, and I am comfortable with my understanding of it...I already explained that I will meet with the Sheriff's Dept to see if I can get the restriction lifted...

But I will say this- I still maintain that if my life were in jeapordy and I was at a gas station that happened to be within 1000 ft of a school, I would rather defend myself and worry about the DA then end up dead. We all take legal risk by carrying a weapon. I can accept that. If I couldn't, I never would've even bought a gun, let alone carry one.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:24 PM
I don't think peoples disagreement or voicing concerns here had anything to do with Gender.

Feel free to disagree with me, I won't think you're "man-bashing":p

I received several PMs from people who felt the same way I did, and Billy Jack also agreed. However, I could have misinterpreted. And it's also entirely possible I was overly sensitive. We women tend to be that way :p

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 8:33 PM
Do you understand that you really can't go ANYWHERE without violating that 1000' restriction? It's impossible to be driving around, through neighborhoods and cities without CONSTANTLY entering those zones. It's nonsense, none of us like it, but it's there.

Please keep us updated on your talks with the sheriffs dept. It's the middle of the week, that would have been the first place to go.

supersonic
01-07-2010, 8:33 PM
3boyzmom-I just came back upon this thread and I seriously can't believe you are still here going back and forth with everyone about 'gender' 'who is being rude' and the never-ending "1000-FT. rule", etc....etc.....! I have held back, even after giving you some real sound advice which you did take (AND which you credit yourself for, which is fine;)) , but here's a piece of solid gold that I am about to give you: CLOSE this thread, as it is useless at this point. Correspond directly with BJ because he is the one who can provide the help you need, not us! I'm sure that, by now, you have all of their contact info, incl. their phone #'s; and just get on with this 'dilemma' in a non-public & professional manner ! Remember, everything you post on here is now PUBLIC DOMAIN, and everything (including your character) can, and will, be used against you at any time and by any person/persons and/or entity.:)

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:42 PM
Nope, no phone numbers, no contact info....tried to PM but he isn't accepting them...but I've sent an email through his website. And as we already discussed I had already changed my avatar but then talked to you and changed it again because YOU WERE RIGHT and called something to my attention that I hadn't considered, and I thank you for that.

And I have no idea how to close a thread. But I'll look around.

Librarian
01-07-2010, 8:45 PM
And I have no idea how to close a thread. But I'll look around.

You can't - but if you click the little "!" in a red triangle in the top bar of your post, you can 'report post to moderator', and moderators can delete/hide posts and threads.

3boyzmom
01-07-2010, 8:46 PM
Thanks!

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 8:48 PM
Why does this thread need to be closed ?