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xxdabroxx
01-06-2010, 12:17 PM
Did they add a LCI and disconnect, or is the BOF doing something fishy?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/recentlyadded.pdf

bwiese
01-06-2010, 12:21 PM
Who knows? Maybe Sig has - CA's a huge market with higher disposable incomes, and national gun sales have slowed now that the irrational Obama panic has subsided.

We'll dig in & find out.

halifax
01-06-2010, 12:33 PM
hoffmang was made aware of a situation in which a SIG salesman was complaining that the DOJ wasn't even responding to them. Maybe someone finally kicked the DOJ in the arse and got them moving on something that had been in the works for months.

xxdabroxx
01-06-2010, 12:38 PM
from the owners manual:

WARNING - UNLOADING

Removing cartridges from the magazine
does not prevent the pistol from being
fired! When there is a cartridge in the
chamber the cartridge will discharge if
the trigger is pulled. It is absolutely
essential for the user to know how to
completely unload the pistol.
“Completely” means emptying the
magazine and removing a chambered
cartridge.
PISTOL WILL FIRE WITH
MAGAZINE, EMPTY OR REMOVED

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsContent/documents/OwnerManual/P250MANUALFINAL.pdf

Sarkoon
01-06-2010, 12:43 PM
Very odd. Why only the compact two-tone model in 9mm and none of the other varieties?

jamesob
01-06-2010, 12:47 PM
MAYBE SIG THREW ALOT OF $ AT THE DOJ.

xxdabroxx
01-06-2010, 12:47 PM
only wanted to pay once i would assume.

dychen
01-06-2010, 4:39 PM
This will be interesting, this the first thing sig has produced that actually interest me

MrPlutonium
01-06-2010, 5:18 PM
Well, hopefully this is one of the last models to have to deal with the stupid roster. Fingers crossed, people.

chainsaw
01-06-2010, 6:29 PM
Very odd. Why only the compact two-tone model in 9mm and none of the other varieties?
It doesn't matter. One can change any model of the P250 into any other model, by replacing the slide and the grip frame (which also changes caliber). The "firearm" (or serialized part) is the small fire control module. So if you don't like the compact two-tone module, then buy slides and frames. I don't know whether Sig is selling those as spare parts yet; one might have to buy them from someone who is parting out their pistol.

kermit315
01-06-2010, 6:44 PM
tagged to follow, this is interesting.

bwiese
01-06-2010, 6:45 PM
Give us two weeks (no joke), we'll find out more.

grammaton76
01-06-2010, 6:51 PM
Joke: Perhaps they're single-shot exempting it by sending in the lockwork only, and challenging DOJ to find a way for it to go off? ;)

1911su16b870
01-06-2010, 8:09 PM
Joke: Perhaps they're single-shot exempting it by sending in the lockwork only, and challenging DOJ to find a way for it to go off? ;)

Here DOJ approve this :D

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/photo/d/1972-1/IMG_3450.jpg

Fantasma
01-06-2010, 10:50 PM
Give us two weeks (no joke), we'll find out more.

Yeah let us know, I really want to know what Law they used to bypass the list and be able to list a completely new gun with none of the safety features required.

If they did not use one of the exceptions in the law to bypass the list(instead used $$$$, or some kind of influence on to the DOJ ), then I hope we can use this as fire to remove the Roster..

thedrickel
01-06-2010, 11:43 PM
They're NRF'ing them!

Markinsac
01-07-2010, 12:47 AM
It appears that the compact is the ONLY version that has a 10-round magazine. Until the law gets overturned, the compact is the only version available in-state.

I had the chance to hold one and dry-fire it at a store out of state about 18 months ago - I was impressed with it.

bigcalidave
01-07-2010, 1:53 AM
It appears that the compact is the ONLY version that has a 10-round magazine. Until the law gets overturned, the compact is the only version available in-state.

I had the chance to hold one and dry-fire it at a store out of state about 18 months ago - I was impressed with it.

Doesn't matter. Once you have a 9mm FCG you can turn it into a 9, .357, or .40sw gun, with a sub compact, compact, or full size grip and different length slides. You only need to buy the first one.

Vin496
01-07-2010, 7:57 AM
It appears that the compact is the ONLY version that has a 10-round magazine. Until the law gets overturned, the compact is the only version available in-state.

I had the chance to hold one and dry-fire it at a store out of state about 18 months ago - I was impressed with it.

Not true the Compact 9mm has a 15 round magazine. A member tried to buy one as soon as the gun showed up on the roster and can not as Sig doesn't even make 10 round mags for the compact 9mm yet.

How this gun got on the list is a mystery. In no way shape or form could it have met the requirements for the LCI as they are written. It would require Sig to design an all new P250 for just the California market, and if they did that(which I doubt), wouldn't the list reflect that with a modified model number, like the Ruger SR9?

halifax
01-07-2010, 9:03 AM
Not true the Compact 9mm has a 15 round magazine. A member tried to buy one as soon as the gun showed up on the roster and can not as Sig doesn't even make 10 round mags for the compact 9mm yet.

Maybe Markinsac is saying that SIG will be making 10 round mags for the compact frame only:

http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=27&productid=376

http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=27&productid=372

How this gun got on the list is a mystery. In no way shape or form could it have met the requirements for the LCI as they are written. It would require Sig to design an all new P250 for just the California market, and if they did that(which I doubt), wouldn't the list reflect that with a modified model number, like the Ruger SR9?

What if SIG had submitted the P250 before the LCI/Mag Disconnect law went into effect and it has just taken this long to get approved? Possible, I suppose.

bwiese
01-07-2010, 9:21 AM
Not true the Compact 9mm has a 15 round magazine. A member tried to buy one as soon as the gun showed up on the roster and can not as Sig doesn't even make 10 round mags for the compact 9mm yet.

How this gun got on the list is a mystery. In no way shape or form could it have met the requirements for the LCI as they are written. It would require Sig to design an all new P250 for just the California market, and if they did that(which I doubt), wouldn't the list reflect that with a modified model number, like the Ruger SR9?

There's a substantial chance Sig did something like do the testing with a P250 prototype quite some time ago and then finally paid the fees recently.

Everybody's also speculating here - there indeed could be a P250 with both a mag disco and LCI: many large LE agencies specify one or both of these features, and I'm sure Sig engineering made room in their design for this regardless of what Sig reps may have publicly said.

Vin496
01-07-2010, 9:25 AM
Maybe Markinsac is saying that SIG will be making 10 round mags for the compact frame only:

http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=27&productid=376

http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=27&productid=372



What if SIG had submitted the P250 before the LCI/Mag Disconnect law went into effect and it has just taken this long to get approved? Possible, I suppose.

Ah OK, this makes sense. I wonder if they actually exist or if they are a order now we'll have them in 6months item.

wash
01-07-2010, 9:59 AM
Here DOJ approve this :D

http://www.shanewhitlock.com/photo/d/1972-1/IMG_3450.jpg
I really want to make a bending jig for that...

1911su16b870
01-07-2010, 10:39 AM
That P250 Fire Control Unit is so cool, the steel used for it is pretty thick stuff. We'll see who comes up with the bending jig and 80% receivers first! :D

bwiese
01-07-2010, 10:47 AM
That P250 Fire Control Unit is so cool, the steel used for it is pretty thick stuff. We'll see who comes up with the bending jig and 80% receivers first! :D

GREAT IDEA! ANOTHER CALGUNNER STRIKES AGAIN! Whee!

That may actually be easier to CNC from a forged block than to bend up from thick sheet metal.

We'd also have to see if Sig sells all the small parts individually, or treats the whole thing like a 'module'.

bsim
01-07-2010, 11:08 AM
FYI - I had 2 FFLs tell me back in August the Sig was trying to get the P250 on the list. When I mentioned no LCI or mag disconnect, both FFLs responded with a shrug and a wink.

1911su16b870
01-07-2010, 11:10 AM
I certainly hope a Sig Armorer would be able to get all the parts for the FCU directly from Sig. Not including the FCU frame, the parts off the top of my head are: Trigger, Trigger Bar, Trigger Bar Spring, Slide Lock Lever, SL Spring, SL Spring Washer, Hammer, 2 Hammer Springs, Hammer Cam Disk, 3 pins = 14 parts or so...IIRC

I am so excited about the aftermarket potential of the P250 platfrom. Folks could make alloy grip assemblies and all sorts of after market things for this platform.

Sig is bringing out a striker fired version at this shot show and I am so interested in seeing what they did with that. Also rumors of a SA/DA with decocker. Really would like to see what that design will look like.

wash
01-07-2010, 11:11 AM
It's 4-5 parts and a spring. If Sig does not want to sell them, I'm sure other companies will.

Either way, it will be an ~easy to finish modern pistol, way easier than finishing something like a 1911.

<edit> or 14 I guess, most pretty simple. <edit>

jrr
01-07-2010, 4:07 PM
whats odd is that they could have put the .45 on the roster and mags wouldn't be a problem, since the compact 45 holds 9 rounds.

But can't say that it shocks me that the DOJ would roster a gun that doesn't meet their standards. Remember this is the same organization that allowed the mosquito to go on the roster with a threaded barrel, then turned around and declared it was an Assault Pistol.

Would not surprise me in the least if they allow it to be sold then a year later send out a letter to the owners demanding that it be turned in to law enforcement or they will charge you with illegally importing an "unsafe" pistol.

Never underestimate the incompetency of government officials.

Joe
01-07-2010, 4:11 PM
cool

mej16489
01-07-2010, 4:13 PM
Remember this is the same organization that allowed the mosquito to go on the roster with a threaded barrel, then turned around and declared it was an Assault Pistol.


But it was a not-unsafe Assault Pistol! :D

jrr
01-07-2010, 4:34 PM
"But it was a not-unsafe Assault Pistol!"

LOL. Yes, but god forbid you had the two tone, because that one is an assault pistol, and its Unsafe!

Don't you feel safer knowing that you are protected from the unsafe Nitrolon finish or Digital Camo finished p250s running around killing puppies with their incredibly unsafe color schemes?

Vin496
01-21-2010, 9:46 AM
So did anyone ever find out what the deal is, and how the P250 made it?

command_liner
01-21-2010, 10:08 AM
It will be interesting to hear how the 250 made it, but the
XD 45 Bitone did not.

I have a totally different read on this situation. Acceptance
of the 250 signals that the AG's office will fold on the Pena
case.

What possible logic could there be regarding the 250 that does
not apply to the XD? OTOH, the government does have an
infinite supply of incompetence, and that could explain the
outcome.

bwiese
01-21-2010, 10:48 AM
I'm at SHOT.

I have confirmed with my eyes & fingers that the CA-Rostered P250 (9mm compact) indeed DOES have *both* an LCI and a mag disco.

The Sig man I spoke to there understood the LCI requirement but was surprised to know it had a mag disco; we took apart the gun and found small amount of added hardware (peg, spring, etc.) on the "trigger module". I am uncertain if there is something in the gripframe or slide also necessary for mag disco function - I'm betting not.

In any case, the Sig man told me Sig would freely sell the nonserialized components (gripframe, slides/barrels, etc.) to folks to "build the gun they really want".

The 45ACP is a different flavor due to different width of trigger module - so the 9mm can only be interconverted between 9mm, 357Sig and 40S&W.
He's fairly certain there will be a CA Rostered P250 in 45ACP.

Vin496
01-21-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm at SHOT.

I have confirmed with my eyes & fingers that the CA-Rostered P250 (9mm compact) indeed DOES have *both* an LCI and a mag disco.

The Sig man I spoke to there understood the LCI requirement but was surprised to know it had a mag disco; we took apart the gun and found small amount of added hardware (peg, spring, etc.) on the "trigger module". I am uncertain if there is something in the gripframe or slide also necessary for mag disco function - I'm betting not.

In any case, the Sig man told me Sig would freely sell the nonserialized components (gripframe, slides/barrels, etc.) to folks to "build the gun they really want".

The 45ACP is a different flavor due to different width of trigger module - so the 9mm can only be interconverted between 9mm, 357Sig and 40S&W.
He's fairly certain there will be a CA Rostered P250 in 45ACP.

Is the LCI different from the "regular" model? Unless it is something different there is no way the P250 should have made the Roster.

This is what is so odd about the P250 being approved.

bwiese
01-21-2010, 11:31 AM
Is the LCI different from the "regular" model? Unless it is something different there is no way the P250 should have made the Roster.


I believe it's more prominent. I'll double check today or tomorrow.

Vin496
01-21-2010, 11:37 AM
I believe it's more prominent. I'll double check today or tomorrow.

Thanks, this is like a soap opera for me, lol.

xxdabroxx
01-21-2010, 1:02 PM
thanks Bill!

grammaton76
01-21-2010, 1:20 PM
Thought the whole point of the 250 was that there'd be only one trigger module for all calibers. *sigh*

Will the 45ACP model scale down to 40S&W, etc? I would guess not, but one can always hope.

1911su16b870
01-21-2010, 1:31 PM
I'm at SHOT.

I have confirmed with my eyes & fingers that the CA-Rostered P250 (9mm compact) indeed DOES have *both* an LCI and a mag disco.

The Sig man I spoke to there understood the LCI requirement but was surprised to know it had a mag disco; we took apart the gun and found small amount of added hardware (peg, spring, etc.) on the "trigger module". I am uncertain if there is something in the gripframe or slide also necessary for mag disco function - I'm betting not.

In any case, the Sig man told me Sig would freely sell the nonserialized components (gripframe, slides/barrels, etc.) to folks to "build the gun they really want".

The 45ACP is a different flavor due to different width of trigger module - so the 9mm can only be interconverted between 9mm, 357Sig and 40S&W.
He's fairly certain there will be a CA Rostered P250 in 45ACP.

Thanks Bill for the update!

Any sight of the striker fired P250? :confused:

leelaw
01-21-2010, 1:57 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254668&highlight=p250