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davescz
01-04-2010, 10:23 AM
What is the legality of having a loaded gun in yoru van when on a road trip, and you have stopped for the night at a highway rest stop, forest area, etc... to sleep in your van. this is not a full camper, but will have icebox, food, and has a fold down bed in the back.

does this qualify as a "home" for having a loaded gun handy?

my main issue I want resolved is can I have the loaded gun handy when i stop for the night and sleep in the van. many places I would stop at are isolated, so protectin would be nice to have.

what is the legality of this?

what would change if it is a car, not a van, but I am still using it to sleep in while on a road trip, will that make a differance?

thanks in advance

paul0660
01-04-2010, 10:34 AM
pc 12031: (l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a
loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of
residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

There is not an exception to the school zone prohibition however.

Keep it locked up until camping for the night.

davescz
01-04-2010, 10:45 AM
pc 12031: (l) Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from having a
loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at his or her place of
residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

There is not an exception to the school zone prohibition however.

Keep it locked up until camping for the night.

ok I understand the part about a temporary residence. that makes sense but the school zone thing I am not too sure of, my real home is within 1000 feet of a public ignorance factory (school) I can have my loaded gun handy in my home, and I belive on my own property regardless of a school zone right? so would that not apply to a camp site or rest stop or where i park my camping van?
what I am trying to say is if your own home / property is exempt form the school zone law, would not your camping or temporary home also be exempt?

thanks in advance

Hunt
01-04-2010, 10:51 AM
I think this is location dependent, be wise check the legality of your temporary residence location. While a tent may be my temp residence I am sure I would be in violation of some gun law if the tent was located on a city street or City Park. Don't forget the poor mans concealed carry procedure, which is a quickly accessible locked container. Also State laws vary on guns and vehicles you will need to check each State.


edited to add: I'll tell you what I saw one guy do one time he was sleeping in truck camper and wasn't sure if it was a legal spot for camping so he had a little gun case opened at night with lock open on the latch, if peace officer bothered him at night he would have simply closed lock under cover, thereby converting open case into legal transport container. This would *probably* keep you out of trouble in any State except the draconian States like Hawaii.

paul0660
01-04-2010, 10:58 AM
That is a good question Dave. 626.9 has a clear exception

"Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful."

You could argue that your temporary residence in a school zone is as good as your permanent home. I don't know if you would win the argument.

Hunt is right too, there are municipal codes that, while unconstitutional, may prevail.

davescz
01-04-2010, 11:07 AM
I guess it comes down to better tried by 12 then carried by 6. These laws suck

JDoe
01-04-2010, 11:44 AM
"Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful."

Just a note also that currently a court might find you guilty of a 626.9 violation even if you are on private property if that private property is open to the public like your unfenced front yard, or the privately owned parking lot of a privately owned laundromat.

I guess it comes down to better tried by 12 then carried by 6. These laws suck

Agreed. (http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556)

troysland
01-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Just a note also that currently a court might find you guilty of a 626.9 violation even if you are on private property if that private property is open to the public like your unfenced front yard, or the privately owned parking lot of a privately owned laundromat.

Yes, this sounds like a Theseus reference, ver batim.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=142379

SVT-40
01-04-2010, 1:50 PM
Check out these calif penal codes.

As far as a "van" being a "motor home". It would depend on whether it is actually set up to be a motor home. Otherwise it would just be a vehicle. Merely spending the night in your vehicle does not make it your "home"

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.


12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

davescz
01-04-2010, 2:02 PM
so what is teh legal defination of a motor home or camper to be complaint with the law??? my dad once set up his van with home made beds, a fridge, and sink. Does a bed, and ice box qualify?

how is that determined?

Then again if your are sleeping in your car on a raod trip at a rest stop, why would you not have teh right to self protection by having a loaded gun handy verses someone who owns a fancy class A motor home???

seems to be a bit discrimintory, the rich can afford a fancy class A motor home, us common folks are left with a Van to camp in. are we less deserving of the right to self defense???

Hunt
01-04-2010, 2:04 PM
I guess it comes down to better tried by 12 then carried by 6. These laws suck
this tryanny didn't happen overnight, but the situation is conclusive proof government elementary education works. "The State knows best-Obey"

JDoe
01-04-2010, 3:14 PM
Yes, this sounds like a Theseus reference, ver batim.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=142379

It is.

SteveH
01-04-2010, 3:53 PM
If you live in a van "down by the river" you are probably going to get hasseled by the cops. Once it gets dark cops go looking for that sort of thing.


IMO those public camping, sleeping in a vehicle, no evernight parking, ect regs are about controlling the bums/winos/transients more than public safety. But there are so many laws of that type you could easily find yourself booked for a misdemeanor muni code violation or such. I would spring for a camp site.

bigcalidave
01-04-2010, 4:38 PM
In one of the cases I quoted in the theseus thread there was a guy busted for a school zone violation when he lived in his van on a public street within 1000' of the school. The judges specifically said he could have moved the van to a legal parking spot outside of the 1000' area.

Case is People V Anson
Google Docs Case Info (http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3A7mjz3tWsa5EJ%3Aftp.resource.org%2Fcourts .gov%2Fstates%2FCal.Ct.App%2FG027960.PDF+appeals+6 26.9&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNHlvvocqtSb-sq6oL15cnO7xe0NNA)

I can't copy and paste from that doc, but read the first paragraph on page 9.

davescz
01-04-2010, 4:39 PM
I am more specifically thinking of a Highway Rest Stop at night, one night only. yes I understand parking to sleep overnight in many cities is illegal and will result in a police ticket. I am thinking of places such as highway rest stops.
I should be aok if I park off the road in a forest as it is legal to "camp' there so a temporary residence would apply becuase of the location.

so my specific question is now"

At a Highway Rest Stop such as the ones California has set up by Caltrans, At these rest stops, you are legal to sleep over night there in your car. Caltrans set these up specificaly for travelers, and truckers to sleep at in their vehicle. (in fact many I have seen will NOT allow you to sleep in a tent there, but allow you to use your car).
would this kind of rest stop allow your van or car to be considered a temporary residence while your sleeping in your car or van (non-motor home)?


if not, then this needs to be challenged, as it afford the 2nd admendment protections only to folks that own motor homes, but no protections for folks that use their car or van as their "home"



t

davescz
01-04-2010, 4:46 PM
In one of the cases I quoted in the theseus thread there was a guy busted for a school zone violation when he lived in his van on a public street within 1000' of the school. The judges specifically said he could have moved the van to a legal parking spot outside of the 1000' area.

Case is People V Anson
Google Docs Case Info (http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3A7mjz3tWsa5EJ%3Aftp.resource.org%2Fcourts .gov%2Fstates%2FCal.Ct.App%2FG027960.PDF+appeals+6 26.9&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNHlvvocqtSb-sq6oL15cnO7xe0NNA)

I can't copy and paste from that doc, but read the first paragraph on page 9.


whow, a real A-hole judge
he says that if he allowed the camper exemption as a temproary residence that it would undo the protections that teh school zone law affords!! what kind of protection does that law afford?????

guess we have too many A-hole liberal judges that dont believe in Civil Rights.

paul0660
01-04-2010, 4:56 PM
Rest stops aren't camping, they are napping.

chuckdc
01-04-2010, 10:58 PM
Rest stops aren't camping, they are napping.

In fact, they usually have signs to the effect of "no overnight camping". If I recall correctly, there is a time limit on how long you can stay there, but I'm not positive on how long it is.

Cranium
01-05-2010, 12:56 PM
California Rest Area Usage Policy (http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/maint/ra/policy.htm)