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tango-52
01-04-2010, 7:42 AM
This could use some well-worded comments:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/rivcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_S_concealed04.3e6ce76.html

GuyW
01-04-2010, 10:09 AM
"We take it very seriously, because every time we do issue a permit it is a liability issue for the county," Undersheriff Valerie Hill told the supervisors.

Either she's

1. Ignorant
2. a liar
3. admitting that the County abuses its discretion by issuing permits to people that shouldn't have a permit

.

yellowfin
01-04-2010, 2:44 PM
Or 4. All of the above. I believe it's likely #4.

Maestro Pistolero
01-04-2010, 5:50 PM
"We take it very seriously, because every time we do issue a permit it is a liability issue for the county," Undersheriff Valerie Hill told the supervisors."

And when someone to whom she has denied a permit is killed because they are defenseless, would that not also be a liability?

The truth is that neither scenario creates liability for the LE, because they are immune from prosecution for acts done in good faith during the execution of their duties. So it's total BS. No local government has ever been successfully sued under such a scenario, to my knowledge.

tazmanian devil dog
01-04-2010, 5:58 PM
I don't believe that the county would be liable for the issuance or denial of a ccw. While I don't have the Govt. Code section, I do believe that it is law that no government entity or employee shall be held liable for the issuance or denial of any permit. That means every type of permit from a building permit to a ccw. I will do some research later tonight and find the exact code.

P.S. I hope I didn't mispell anything!!!!! :)

CCWFacts
01-04-2010, 8:21 PM
"We take it very seriously, because every time we do issue a permit it is a liability issue for the county," Undersheriff Valerie Hill told the supervisors.

Either she's

1. Ignorant

Absolutely impossible. There is no possible way any LEO could do any aspect of his or her job without broad statutory immunity. They all know this. This must be covered quite thoroughly in POST.

It's all in California Government Code 820-823 (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/gov/820-823.html), something which is clearly written and thoroughly understood by any law enforcement professional in this state.

2. a liar

That's 100% certain.

3. admitting that the County abuses its discretion by issuing permits to people that shouldn't have a permit.

That's a reasonable assumption!

I don't believe that the county would be liable for the issuance or denial of a ccw. While I don't have the Govt. Code section,

Right here! California Government Code 820-823 (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/gov/820-823.html)

I do believe that it is law that no government entity or employee shall be held liable for the issuance or denial of any permit. That means every type of permit from a building permit to a ccw.

Absolutely correct!

821.2. A public employee is not liable for an injury caused by his issuance, denial, suspension or revocation of, or by his failure or refusal to issue, deny, suspend or revoke, any permit, license, certificate, approval, order, or similar authorization where he is authorized by enactment to determine whether or not such authorization should be issued, denied, suspended or revoked.

They all know this. They couldn't even say "hello" to a suspect without being sued if they didn't have 820-823. They couldn't issue a bicycle registration permit or a dog license or a street vendor license or a funeral permit or anything without 821.2. If it weren't for 820-823, they wouldn't even be able to do nothing because they would be liable for that too. So any LEO who claims "we don't issue because of liability" is lying, intentionally and with full knowledge.

P.S. I hope I didn't mispell anything!!!!! :)

I recommend that everyone take a look at the Firefox browser (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/personal.html), which has a built-in spell checker for things you type in text areas. It's great! It automatically underlines misspelled words and has a handy suggestion feature. No more misspellings. It's free and open source too.

yellowfin
01-04-2010, 9:42 PM
The protection from liability for denial of a permit needs to be removed. That is totally unconscionable.

GuyW
01-04-2010, 10:05 PM
2. a lier


Actually a perfectly good word and spelled correctly, albeit not the one I intended....

.

Billy Jack
01-05-2010, 8:01 AM
Positive role models on a firearm site? This Brave's heart be still.

Let me cut to the chase as I usually do. California government could not function without the immunity that currently extends to all state, county and city employees. They are not immune from violating the law. If they violate a state or federal law they can be held responsible. LEOS can not be held liable for failure to act or failure to prevent a crime. That was settled in the courts years ago.

LEOS and CLEOS are sued all the time for excessive force, wrongful death and so forth.

If they violate a CCW applicants rights and or their own policy on issuance they are liable under USC 1983 and the 14th Amendment. That is the Amendment that is 12 after the 2nd Amendment.

'When one beats ones self up, it deprive enemies of that pleasure' Billy Jack

Hope I did not make any spelling errors.

Billy Jack

Glock22Fan
01-05-2010, 8:57 AM
I have to agree that not being able to spell words correctly just makes you and any argument you make, look uneducated.

I think that the occasional typo can be overlooked, as can the odd word that the author has problems spelling. Heck, none of us are perfect, even if I'm pretty close to it (joke).

What upsets me are the posts that come over as almost totally illiterate. Posts in all caps, when there's no reason to be shouting. Long posts that have no paragraphs and are solid blocks of words. Run on sentences. Posts with terrible punctuation where it is not obvious where the sentences start and stop. Posts where the poster consistently confuses words like "site," "cite" and "sight." Posts where I have to read it several times (if I can be bothered) to determine what they mean. I've given up on those posters who use apostrophes automatically at the end of every word ending in an "s," it must be taught these days like that in school's (another joke).

I'm not saying that every post with some of these elements is written off by me, but the more of these things there are in a post, the more difficulty I personally have in taking the poster as an intelligent person who has views worth taking seriously.

Incidently, I know that English isn't some people's first language, but there's a recognizable difference in the type of English that results from that, and that too is understandable.

RivCoCCW
08-29-2011, 6:18 PM
Just got my CCW in Riverside County. The process was very fair. Seems to me if you need to carry a gun, and have a clean background, Sheriff Sniff will issue you a CCW. Yezzo is a very cool guy to work with...very professional CCW unit.

dotalchemy
08-29-2011, 6:23 PM
Just got my CCW in Riverside County. The process was very fair. Seems to me if you need to carry a gun, and have a clean background, Sheriff Sniff will issue you a CCW. Yezzo is a very cool guy to work with...very professional CCW unit.

Did "Self Defense" count as a reason for needing to carry a concealed firearm?

If no, then it's not a very fair process.

Just sayin'.

bcj128
08-29-2011, 6:46 PM
Sorry, but in defense of the county, I can understand fear of liability. We in law enforcement get sued at the drop of a hat, and cities often settle just because it's cheaper to do so-even when they are in the right.

This kind of fear won't end until there is lawsuit reform.

bwiese
08-29-2011, 6:54 PM
Sorry, but in defense of the county, I can understand fear of liability. We in law enforcement get sued at the drop of a hat, and cities often settle just because it's cheaper to do so-even when they are in the right.

This kind of fear won't end until there is lawsuit reform.

Completely irreelvant to this sitaution.

CA Gov't Code sec 820.. et seq prevents suits for issuance.

Any agency that uses spectre of lawsuits regarding for issuance matters is illegally violating CCW issuance standards.

Anchors
08-29-2011, 7:02 PM
HOW IS "PROFESSORHARD" POSTING HERE?
Seriously weirded out right now...

6172crew
08-29-2011, 7:04 PM
How in the hell did this Thread turn into a Navy WOG day? You guys are acting like a bunch of recruits, knock it off already.

I'm going to delete the posts because I'm embarrassed for anyone who might look up to you guys and the rank you earned.

Anchors
08-29-2011, 7:10 PM
Ohh it was a necro thread. Wow. Haha..

Anchors
08-29-2011, 7:12 PM
Hnn to "RivCoCCW" bumped an almost year old thread to defend Riverside County CCW policy? Spy?! Haha

Anchors
08-29-2011, 7:13 PM
Two year* sorry can't edit posts on my phone.

voiceofreason
08-29-2011, 7:20 PM
Speling duzin't kount on the interwebz.

cindynles
08-29-2011, 7:22 PM
Just got my CCW in Riverside County. The process was very fair. Seems to me if you need to carry a gun, and have a clean background, Sheriff Sniff will issue you a CCW. Yezzo is a very cool guy to work with...very professional CCW unit.

I have to disagree. Permits are issued to some and denied to others with the same or very similar good cause.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss20/cindynles/scan0002.jpg

Mrbroom
08-29-2011, 7:32 PM
Sorry, but in defense of the county, I can understand fear of liability. We in law enforcement get sued at the drop of a hat, and cities often settle just because it's cheaper to do so-even when they are in the right.

This kind of fear won't end until there is lawsuit reform.

I concur with the statement that we in goverment employment (I'm not LEO, but upper management PW) get sued at the drop of the hat. I see claims for damages weekly for things as small as a slightly uneven sidewalk (trip and fall) and these folks are claiming $10,000 in damages.. It's really crazy.. But this is why all cities and counties have thier own attorneys on the books..

Otherwise, its time for change.. We need shall issue in LA County for the exact reason the article states.. 27,000 criminals set to go free!!

monk
08-29-2011, 7:36 PM
Completely irreelvant to this sitaution.

CA Gov't Code sec 820.. et seq prevents suits for issuance.

Any agency that uses spectre of lawsuits regarding for issuance matters is illegally violating CCW issuance standards.

I think someone ows some money to the CGF fund :D .

Rich Keagy
08-29-2011, 8:11 PM
If I live in an incorporated city (Riverside), do I still apply to the County Sheriff's office for LTC?

Burbur
08-29-2011, 8:17 PM
Just got my CCW in Riverside County. The process was very fair. Seems to me if you need to carry a gun, and have a clean background, Sheriff Sniff will issue you a CCW. Yezzo is a very cool guy to work with...very professional CCW unit.

All I hear is "I got Mine :P"


edit: WTF, I got Necro-trolled

stix213
08-29-2011, 8:41 PM
If I live in an incorporated city (Riverside), do I still apply to the County Sheriff's office for LTC?

Legally you're allowed to choose. I don't know about Riverside, but some Sheriffs are illegally refusing to process applications, and forcing you to go to city PD first.

lawaia
08-29-2011, 9:17 PM
If I live in an incorporated city (Riverside), do I still apply to the County Sheriff's office for LTC?

Call the RCSO CCW Unit and ask. They are a really friendly and helpful bunch.