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View Full Version : No exception to 12025 for immediate, grave danger?


Friendo
01-03-2010, 9:29 PM
Gun laws make my head spin. I kinda thought you you could at least carry loaded and concealed if your life was in immediate danger, at least until law enforcement showed up. But it seems when I look at the law there is an exception for loaded but not concealed.

12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm ...(j)(1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

However the similar exception for 12025 seems to only to apply to those situations involving a restraining order:

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following...12025.5. (a) A violation of Section 12025 is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order..

So seems you have to wait for the PD out in the street with a loaded gun in your hand and likely have them shoot you, or violate 12025?

Oh and what if you live in a school zone neighborhood?

S**t maybe you could just keep the 50 grand your gonna spend in court on hand and offer it to any bad guy who breaks into your house in exchange for your life!

elSquid
01-03-2010, 9:37 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity

IANAL.

-- Michael

MP301
01-03-2010, 9:45 PM
here is the only section im aware of for CCW without a permit. It probably wont stop you from getting arrested, but may clear your charges in court..

(a) A violation of Section 12025 is justifiable when a
person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is
in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a
current restraining order issued by a court against another person or
persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her
life or safety. This section may not apply when the circumstances
involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10
(commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual
finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is
not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the
application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this
or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section
12025 or of committing other similar offenses.
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 12025, the trier of fact
shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable
belief that he or she was in grave danger.

Librarian
01-03-2010, 9:56 PM
So, in cases of immediate grave danger, don't conceal the handgun. No 12025 issue for open carry.

Fate
01-03-2010, 9:58 PM
here is the only section im aware of for CCW without a permit. It probably wont stop you from getting arrested, but may clear your charges in court..

(a) A violation of Section 12025 is justifiable when a
person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is
in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a
current restraining order issued by a court against another person or
persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her
life or safety. This section may not apply when the circumstances
involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10
(commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual
finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is
not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the
application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this
or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section
12025 or of committing other similar offenses.
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 12025, the trier of fact
shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable
belief that he or she was in grave danger.

Also note the highlighted section of the same section. ;) Get a good lawyer and pray for a smart jury.

Jpach
01-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Hmm. I wonder if grandma is down for me filing a restraining order against her...

bigcalidave
01-03-2010, 10:55 PM
The exemption is for carrying it with you when you need it RIGHT NOW. Not might need it later so you're concealing it, but you are running from someone who is going to shoot you, or you are running at someone who is going to shoot your kid, right now. I'm sure there may be a situation where you think you need to conceal a weapon in immediate danger, but the reality of this exemption is that it's just to prevent charges being filed for carrying a loaded weapon against someone acting in defense of life or against an active felony.

Spyder
01-04-2010, 9:14 AM
Hmm. I wonder if grandma is down for me filing a restraining order against her...

HAHAHAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaa!!

Fjold
01-04-2010, 9:39 AM
So seems you have to wait for the PD out in the street with a loaded gun in your hand and likely have them shoot you, or violate 12025?

Oh and what if you live in a school zone neighborhood?




Why would you be outside on the street? If you are in immediate danger inside of your house then deal with the issue and stay inside until the police come.

If the threat is inside your house and you are outside, call the cops and don't go inside. (go to the neighbor's etc.)

If you have a gun outside your house, when you see the flashing lights put the gun down on the ground and leave your hands in a visible position.

If you are outside of your house in a shootout, the question comes back to; why are you outside?

paul0660
01-04-2010, 9:41 AM
626.9, the school zone law, has this exception:

(3) When the person possessing the firearm reasonably believes
that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming
the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against
another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat
to his or her life or safety. This subdivision may not apply when
the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant
to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code
absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or
safety. Upon a trial for violating subdivision (b), the trier of a
fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a
reasonable belief that he or she was in grave danger.

Flopper
01-04-2010, 9:46 AM
here is the only section im aware of for CCW without a permit. It probably wont stop you from getting arrested, but may clear your charges in court..

(a) A violation of Section 12025 is justifiable when a
person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is
in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a
current restraining order issued by a court against another person or
persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her
life or safety. This section may not apply when the circumstances
involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10
(commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual
finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is
not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the
application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this
or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section
12025 or of committing other similar offenses.
(b) Upon trial for violating Section 12025, the trier of fact
shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable
belief that he or she was in grave danger.

There are a few other exemptions, including:
1. On your own property, not open to the public
2. On private property, in areas not open to the public, with permission of owner
3. At your business, or at place of work with permission of owner, in areas not open to the public
4. While hunting or fishing with appropriate hunting/fishing license

(To OP: I'm sure you know this, but your post is a little ambiguous.)