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nicki
01-02-2010, 11:29 PM
Most of us will probably never buy a 50 cal rifle, but if you are like me, you might want to try shooting a few rounds through various models of 50 BMG rifles.

If you have a registered 50 BMG, you have a rifle that many of us would like to try shooting a few rounds through.

Calguns will eventually file a lawsuit, but other issues need to be dealt with first to build foundational cases.

The issue with all lawsuits is they require money and to a certain extent, lawsuits will be determined by available cash to fund them.

What I would like to float to the members of Calguns.net is that we have 50 caliber fundraiser shoots across the state.

We have 12,000 active members on Calguns.net, so we do have a large base of people who potentially would actually like to try shooting 50 caliber rifles.

What I would like to do is keep it simple.

If you own a 50 caliber rifle, would you be willing to loan it's use for events. Of course since they are registered AWs, you have to be there.

You can figure that every person who shows would probably want to shoot 5 to 10 rounds. Of course some people have deep pockets and are gluttons for punishment.

The bottom line is alot of rounds will probably be fired that day.

If you would like to shoot 50 caliber rifles, would you make a 25 dollar donation to CGF to be put in a special fund for 50 cal lawsuits?

Range fees would probably be around 10 to 15 dollars. This would bring the cost of this event in the 70 to 130 dollar range for most of us.

1,000 people participating in mulitple shoots statewide is not a unrealistic goal, one that could raise 20K of seed money for future 50BMG lawsuits.

So, my question to Calgunners is the following, would you participate?

bigcalidave
01-03-2010, 6:21 PM
I think it would be fun to have a 50 cal organized shoot / shoots, where more funds were raised for CGF. But I don't think that changing the .50 legislation is a priority. .50 dtc is a suitable alternative for people who can't have a BMG upper and the fight is more relevant in other areas...
If it could be done as a separate entity to the other 2a battles, without distracting from them, I don't see why not. It would give me incentive to buy that bmg upper I've been drooling over... :D

zhyla
01-03-2010, 8:00 PM
I agree. As perverse as they are, .50 cal laws only affect wealthy hobbyists and are the easiest to scare the public about (".50 BMG can shoot TEN MILES into a school zone!!!"). I'd like to see AWB, roster, and magazine restrictions come first in CGF's efforts (as I believe they do).

That said, I realize that a disproportionate amount of funding may come from those wealthy .50 cal hobbyists.

ke6guj
01-03-2010, 8:07 PM
I agree. As perverse as they are, .50 cal laws only affect wealthy hobbyists and are the easiest to scare the public about (".50 BMG can shoot TEN MILES into a school zone!!!"). I'd like to see AWB, roster, and magazine restrictions come first in CGF's efforts (as I believe they do).

That said, I realize that a disproportionate amount of funding may come from those wealthy .50 cal hobbyists.

not true, you'd be suprised at the yearly income of some .50BMG owners.

Josh3239
01-03-2010, 8:10 PM
:iagree:

A great quality .50 upper can be had for $2,000-$3,000. Throw that on an AR lower and you will have a great shooter. You can get cheaper ones, they probably won't win you any competitions but they'd be fun as hell. I'd think most people on this board have invested way more than $3,000 into this hobby.

Prince50
01-03-2010, 8:14 PM
I will gladly loan my .50BMG platforms to the event. I could do it within reason in So Cal.

I've got a Barrett, ALS, TNW M2, and Serbu BFG Carbine to loan.

I'd love to get this one turned around, as we defeated it several times before Waxman finally got it through.

Darin

50 Shooter
01-03-2010, 8:26 PM
Sorry to say it but you're a few years late, the 50 BMG ban in CA will NEVER be overturned nor will the standing AW ban. It's a nice pipe dream but you have to look at who controls the media and get's all of the attention when it comes to gun control.

When was the last time you ever saw a politician get on TV and say we need to overturn the CA AW ban? When was the last time you saw any of the gun owning movie stars get on TV and say we need to overturn the CA AW ban? This is the battle we face, getting any of these so called gun friendly people to put up or shut up.

Meanwhile, the anti's can get on TV anytime they want and spew forth all the lies they can to scare the sheeple. Americans have become a population of "me" and as long as their little world isn't affected they could care less about anything. I'm willing to bet that if they called for an outright ban on all firearms tomorrow 99% of the people would turn them in. They would justify it by telling themselves that "we'll fight it in the courts". Anyway, good luck.

jaymz
01-03-2010, 8:29 PM
I agree. As perverse as they are, .50 cal laws only affect wealthy hobbyists and are the easiest to scare the public about (".50 BMG can shoot TEN MILES into a school zone!!!"). I'd like to see AWB, roster, and magazine restrictions come first in CGF's efforts (as I believe they do).

That said, I realize that a disproportionate amount of funding may come from those wealthy .50 cal hobbyists.

Have you even read YOUR OWN sig line?!?! You know,the one that says

"compromise•conformity•assimilation•submission•igno rance•hypocrisy•brutality•the elite".

I am assuming of course, that those are used in a negative fashion in a pro 2a vs. anti 2a situation, if I'm correct, your statement fits right in with at least 5 of the 8 words.

While I agree that we need to prioritize our battles, every time I hear someone make a statement that implies "it doesn't affect me, so who cares", it makes my freakin' skin crawl! Every anti-firearm law that I can think of, are victimless crimes, and need to be off of the books. I don't care if it only affects ONE person. BS laws are BS laws and they need to go away.


:rant:

2600fromAtari
01-03-2010, 8:37 PM
Sorry to say it but you're a few years late, the 50 BMG ban in CA will NEVER be overturned nor will the standing AW ban. It's a nice pipe dream but you have to look at who controls the media and get's all of the attention when it comes to gun control.

When was the last time you ever saw a politician get on TV and say we need to overturn the CA AW ban? When was the last time you saw any of the gun owning movie stars get on TV and say we need to overturn the CA AW ban? This is the battle we face, getting any of these so called gun friendly people to put up or shut up.

Meanwhile, the anti's can get on TV anytime they want and spew forth all the lies they can to scare the sheeple. Americans have become a population of "me" and as long as their little world isn't affected they could care less about anything. I'm willing to bet that if they called for an outright ban on all firearms tomorrow 99% of the people would turn them in. They would justify it by telling themselves that "we'll fight it in the courts". Anyway, good luck.

50, while the logical part of my brain agrees with everything you've said, the "emotional" side says "let's fight" no matter how futile the odds. :-)

I'm in for whatever meet/fundraiser you guys set up.

EDIT: ...and I can bring at least two other folks with me.

jaymz
01-03-2010, 8:39 PM
Sorry to say it but you're a few years late, the 50 BMG ban in CA will NEVER be overturned nor will the standing AW ban. It's a nice pipe dream but you have to look at who controls the media and get's all of the attention when it comes to gun control.

When was the last time you ever saw a politician get on TV and say we need to overturn the CA AW ban? When was the last time you saw any of the gun owning movie stars get on TV and say we need to overturn the CA AW ban? This is the battle we face, getting any of these so called gun friendly people to put up or shut up.

Meanwhile, the anti's can get on TV anytime they want and spew forth all the lies they can to scare the sheeple. Americans have become a population of "me" and as long as their little world isn't affected they could care less about anything. I'm willing to bet that if they called for an outright ban on all firearms tomorrow 99% of the people would turn them in. They would justify it by telling themselves that "we'll fight it in the courts". Anyway, good luck.

If what you say is true, can you please tell me how I have a safe full of legal AR15's? Did we have a politician or a movie star go on tv and say "let's not add to the list so that the People can buy some OLL's"? We don't need politicians and movie stars to say a damn thing ( I actually prefer that they don't) to have anything overturned, we just need to prove that it's unconstitutional, and crappy laws will go away. (I'm oversimplifying of course, but you get the idea)

50 Shooter
01-03-2010, 8:48 PM
All you've done is work around the law, you haven't had it overturned. That's why there's OLL's and 50 DTC rifles. As I said before, we don't have enough people to get any of the bans overturned.

The anti's have the ability to get on TV or in the paper any time they wish. If they put it on the news or in the paper tomorrow asking for a vote on banning firearms in CA, how do you think we would fair? I'm willing to bet that we would lose badly!

What are you willing to do then? Turn them in and hope to win in court or go to war?

jaymz
01-03-2010, 9:02 PM
All you've done is work around the law, you haven't had it overturned. That's why there's OLL's and 50 DTC rifles. As I said before, we don't have enough people to get any of the bans overturned.I prefer to say "working within the law":). And yes, I know that those laws have not been overturned, but that's kinda my point, they don't always really need to be, not at first anyway.

The anti's have the ability to get on TV or in the paper any time they wish. If they put it on the news or in the paper tomorrow asking for a vote on banning firearms in CA, how do you think we would fair? I'm willing to bet that we would lose badly!
Are you serious? The antis don't even beleive that. If they did, they would be on tv RIGHT NOW asking for that vote.

What are you willing to do then? Turn them in and hope to win in court or go to war?
Yes and yes.

50 Shooter
01-03-2010, 9:08 PM
Frankenswine tried it before when she told people to turn your guns in or go to jail. So it's really not that far fetched of an idea for them to try. They know if they could get away with it they would be on TV tomorrow doing it.

Flopper
01-03-2010, 9:09 PM
If they put it on the news or in the paper tomorrow asking for a vote on banning firearms in CA, how do you think we would fair? I'm willing to bet that we would lose badly!

Five years ago (hell, TWO years ago) I would've been in complete agreement with you, but today this conclusion makes absolutely no sense.

For the past year and a half a continuous stream of polls have been conducted, and in every one the public has been pro-RKBA (or at least anti-gun control). Keep in mind that these public opinion polls were sponsored by groups that span the full political spectrum, including groups that have an anti-gun agenda.

There is a growing awareness about 2nd Amendment, crime, and self-defense issues, and people are finally starting to realize what we've known all along.

Flopper
01-03-2010, 9:20 PM
Frankenswine tried it before when she told people to turn your guns in or go to jail. So it's really not that far fetched of an idea for them to try. They know if they could get away with it they would be on TV tomorrow doing it.

But. . .

If they put it on the news or in the paper tomorrow asking for a vote on banning firearms in CA, how do you think we would fair? I'm willing to bet that we would lose badly!

These two statements are contradictory, so which one is it?

artherd
01-03-2010, 10:43 PM
All you've done is work around the law, you haven't had it overturned. That's why there's OLL's and 50 DTC rifles. As I said before, we don't have enough people to get any of the bans overturned.

Looking forward to proving you wrong in 2010 and beyond. Donate to CGF.


Oh and I have a Barrett M82-A1 I'd be happy to bring to one of these (can't actually lend a .50BMG Rifle... but you can be there while someone else shoots it)

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 10:55 PM
50 Shooter, I hope you'll be as generous as you are vocal when the coalition overturns the 50cal and AWB in spite of your baseless predictions to the contrary.

nicki
01-04-2010, 1:15 AM
Guys, the 50 cal rifle is something few of us will ever buy, but it would be fun to fire a few rounds through it, kinda like taking a ferrari for a test drive.

Gun ranges in Nevada make alot of money renting machineguns, we just do the same with 50 cal rifles and the money we raise goes to a targeted lawsuit.

The first issue is let's have some fun, fire some rounds through the 50 cal since it is forbidden fruit in this state.

If one out of 10 of us participated, we just raised 25K. It doesn't need to be one event, it could be 10 events, it could be 20, doesn't matter.

From what I heard the Zombie shoot was a blast, so shooting events do attract calgunners.

The point is we have owners who are willing to loan use of their guns. All we need is the range, the ammo and the time.

Some people on this board want to come and tell us why we can't win, that things are hopeless.

Well, maybe things are hopeless, but you know what, I would rather fight a hopeless battle like the 300 Greeks against the Persian Army and die on my feet than surrender meekly and be lead to my death like the Jews were in the concentration camps.

Victory is determined by attitude and if you believe you will lose, it is a self fullfilling prophecy.

If our right to keep and bear arms was limited to sporting purposes or even self defense, then we would have difficulty defending our right to have the EBRs, much less the 50 cals.

The truth is the gun rights movement is just starting to seriously look at our collective duty to own arms to protect our free state, that we as citizens have a duty to be armed to protect the free state from a rebellious government.

Chief Justice Kozinski ruled that the second amendment was the doomsday amendment, the ultimate check on a out of control government.

That being said guys, cant' we just get along.

We can shoot the big guns, socialize, raise some funds, then get together afterward and have a few beers.



Nicki

Prince50
01-04-2010, 6:37 AM
I am still in to be there with my .50s.

Some back story on 50 Shooter's position is in order:

Before there was a Calguns.net, 50 Shooter and a decent sized group of us .50BMG owners fought, fought and fought to prevent AB50 or AB222 and whatever else they called it from going through. We won 2 or 3 times, and in the end, it passed.

50 Shooter has fought the great fight on this issue, and regardless of his, my, and the others in the California 50BMG community, we still lost.

I'd love to attack it again. I know 50 Shooter would be there too!

He is just trying to be realistic as to our odds.

We are all in this together.

Darin

Spyder
01-04-2010, 9:13 AM
I don't have a BMG but I'd bring my DTC out for some folks to play with...

Tankhatch
01-04-2010, 10:44 AM
We need to make money, to defend our rights to modern weapons.

Attempts by anti's to revise the aw listings & include more BS, are always on the horizon

50BMGBOB
01-04-2010, 12:31 PM
I would be willing to help. Here is a link to Alexthewelder firing mine for the first time at USI in Concord http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9goz0ZZGo I have an AR50 and have let a lot of people fire their first 50BMG with it.

I'm a blue collar worker with 5 little kids, not rich by any means. I think letting people try it to see what it really is like helps us. I do a lot of work with kids (other guns, not the 50 only because it would be illegal to let them fire it) getting new shooters involved is the only way to save our Rights and our sport.

50BMGBOB
01-04-2010, 12:36 PM
I should have added, I would be willing to support this even if the funds went to the CGF in general and not just to the 50BMG ban fight.

Also have you talked with the FCI? http://www.fiftycal.org/ A united front always works best.

50 Shooter
01-04-2010, 12:54 PM
Hey, I'm all for you guys proving me wrong on this and getting the 50 ban overturned. I never said that I wouldn't be there to fight the good fight and as Prince 50 stated I've been there since the beginning.

As a matter of fact, when they first had their little dog & pony show on AB 2222 I was there with John Burtt (FCI) members from the NRA and a few other guys. When that POS Tom Diaz (VPC) got up and started with his little line of lies and then asked for questions, we got the first one in.

The question we got in was "how many 50's have been used in a crime in CA" Of course Tommy boy was stumbling and asked who he was and after that he actually was truthful and said NONE! But of course he had to throw in his but the 50 could do this or that and we're trying to be proactive.:rolleyes:

I just think that we should use our efforts for other gun issues first, once we get those defeated we can work on the AW and 50 bans.

As for my generosity, yes I will loan out my AR-50 but it has to be local. Either up here in the high desert, Angeles Range or Lytle Creek.

Glock22Fan
01-04-2010, 1:11 PM
I am still in to be there with my .50s.

Some back story on 50 Shooter's position is in order:

Before there was a Calguns.net, 50 Shooter and a decent sized group of us .50BMG owners fought, fought and fought to prevent AB50 or AB222 and whatever else they called it from going through. We won 2 or 3 times, and in the end, it passed.

50 Shooter has fought the great fight on this issue, and regardless of his, my, and the others in the California 50BMG community, we still lost.

I'd love to attack it again. I know 50 Shooter would be there too!

He is just trying to be realistic as to our odds.

We are all in this together.

Darin

Nothing personal, and I applaud historical effort. I also understand how people can get jaded and start thinking "we're never going to win" (whether it be 50 cal or Shall Issue or banning the Roster or whatever.)

However, defeatism is certainly not going to help us win.

While there are still a number of us willing to struggle on against the odds, I wish people who are perhaps more realistic and have therefore given up would keep their mouths shut. You know, you stand more chance of gaining something that way, however unlikely. Your way is "lose:lose" whereas our way is "lose:maybe not lose."

I'll take it, the same way I still put a dollar into the Lottery from time to time although I know I'm more likely to be struch by lightening. Day dreams of being rich are nice, but you have to spend your dollar to make it even the smallest bit possible.

Edit: Having said all that, my personal view is that the landscape isn't nearly as bad as 50Shooter has painted. We are winning some important battles at present. This may well snowball.

Spyder
01-04-2010, 7:23 PM
I do a lot of work with kids (other guns, not the 50 only because it would be illegal to let them fire it) getting new shooters involved is the only way to save our Rights and our sport.

Huh?

ke6guj
01-04-2010, 7:26 PM
Huh?

Since 50BMGBOB has .50BMG rifles, it is illegal for him to let a minor fire it in CA. So he lets them shoot his non-.50BMG rifles in an attempt to get them interested in firearms, so that they may be the next generation of gun owners.

jaymz
01-04-2010, 7:30 PM
It's illegal for a minor to shoot a .50 BMG?

CSACANNONEER
01-04-2010, 7:33 PM
Since 50BMGBOB has .50BMG rifles, it is illegal for him to let a minor fire it in CA. So he lets them shoot his non-.50BMG rifles in an attempt to get them interested in firearms, so that they may be the next generation of gun owners.

Yep, I had the same problem when my stepson was planning to shot his first FCSA match. He legally shot my 50s when he was 11 but, after I registered them, he could no longer shot them here. Yet at 13, he could and did compete in a match in Reno. He placed close to middle of the pack too! Anyway, minors can legally shot M2s/M3s in BMG and rifles chambered in anything but 50BMG. I can't wait until Bob's oldest is ready to shoot a match (out of state) and teach us old farts a lesson.

ke6guj
01-04-2010, 7:38 PM
It's illegal for a minor to shoot a .50 BMG?Yup, illegal to be lent a registered AW or .50BMG rifle.


12280(k) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to:
(1) A person who lawfully possesses and has registered an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter who lends that assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to another if all the following apply:
(A) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent is 18 years of age or over and is not in a class of persons prohibited from possessing firearms by virtue of Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(B) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifleis lent remains in the presence of the registered possessor of the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle.
(C) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is possessed at any of the following locations:
(i) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(ii) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(iii) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.

50BMGBOB
01-04-2010, 9:22 PM
Exactly what others have said. In the past, I have had shooters as young as 7 shoot it. Now only when I travel out of state can I do that. The same is true if you have an AR15 that is a registered AW, you can not let some one under 18 shoot it, but if it is a CA compliant OLL then it is OK to let them.

I do like to get new shooters interested in firearms. Just last week I had a few new shooters to the range, a 10 year old girl, her father and her aunt. They got to fire several 22's both rifles and pistols at paper and steel targets. The girl asked her dad if they could get their own firearms before they left the range and I'm working with her dad to make that happen. I have lost track of the number of new shooters that I have helped get started. Even at today's ammo prices, take a friend to the range.

Spyder
01-04-2010, 9:51 PM
Huh. Alright. Makes perfect sense now. Haha, I never connected the "can't be lent to anyone under 18" thing to the BMG.

Knowledge is good!

ldivinag
01-04-2010, 10:01 PM
i technically have 2 registered 50BMGs...

i never bought an upper for a single shot AR lower... lol...


but hey... i paid $25 for that piece of paper, IIRC.

that and serbu is ready to go...

so someone arrange this thing and bring the ammo... lol...

ldivinag
01-04-2010, 10:06 PM
not true, you'd be suprised at the yearly income of some .50BMG owners.

yup yup yup...

i bought mine cause i didnt want to fall into that BUY NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE gun bans... (dont even ask me what happened to me at traders in san leandro on dec 31, 1999)....

granted, the single shot AR lower was cheaper than the $500 piece of pipe SERBU sold me... lol... it took over a year to send the pipe back to serbu for them to finally finish it...

i mean i suffered financially hard. i mean it was like 1-2 less lapdances per week... the horrors... the horrors...











jk... :)

mrkubota
01-05-2010, 7:07 AM
If it's a local meet in SoCal, I can bring a few .50s and similar rifles/conversions:

Serbu BFG50 .50BMG
SHF UltraMag50 .50BMG
LigaMec UltraLite50 .50Spotter (kid friendly :))
FAR50 .416Barrett (kid friendly :))

I can also bring a M2HB .50DTC conversion barrel for anyone who might want to try that out too...

.50BMG, .50DTC, .50spotter, .416barrett ammo too...

//Ben

spddrcr
01-05-2010, 8:39 AM
I had the honor of shooting bob's 50 BMG a few months ago and ever since then have been trying to figure out a way to get one of my own. while i agree a fundraiser of sorts would be a good thing I cant help but feel that certain of the big bore shooters in this thread have that been there done that feeling as far a repealing these absurd laws and who could blame them.

we have a problem in CA and this country in general and that problem is that there are people who serve no other purpose then to get paid to come up with laws that are not needed and many of them are not wanted. over 40,000 new laws went on the books this week stemming from 30 states. at what point do we start telling the legislators enough is enough?
I want to buy a 50 BMG dammit and ive had enough of these people telling me what i can and can not do with my freedom here in america:mad:

thanks again BOB:
http://images52.fotki.com/v729/photos/1/1373772/6528101/_1575142919_30272353_4091549_n-vi.jpg

CSACANNONEER
01-05-2010, 4:22 PM
Bob hooked another one!