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View Full Version : Livermore Open Carry - On Police Scanner (VIDEO on post #24)


oaklander
01-02-2010, 11:46 AM
OK, I just heard about a Livermore Open Carry "outing" on my police scanner. The group is apparently downtown and is "winding their way through local businesses."

The location is First Street.

Who here is doing that?

/me whips out the large trout.

Merle
01-02-2010, 11:51 AM
FYI: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/35723.html

SteveH
01-02-2010, 11:57 AM
They must be doing their homework choosing locations. In the city i live in its very hard to find anyplace that is not withen 1000' of k-12 school with all the churches and montessori schools.

Hanniballs
01-02-2010, 12:45 PM
They must be doing their homework choosing locations. In the city i live in its very hard to find anyplace that is not withen 1000' of k-12 school with all the churches and montessori schools.

a majority of downtown first street it free of school zones ;)

CitaDeL
01-02-2010, 12:56 PM
OK, I just heard about a Livermore Open Carry "outing" on my police scanner. The group is apparently downtown and is "winding their way through local businesses."

The location is First Street.

Who here is doing that?

/me whips out the large trout.

Fresh fish is not sufficient deterent to their activities.

I think a couple may have been to Calguns, but choose to participate on OCDO as they arent treated like red-headed stepchildren there. In spite of requests to hold off until June, events like this continue to be scheduled and attended with enthusiasm and still growing numbers. (Many of which have not yet heard of Calguns and could become contributing members here.) In spite of the enthusiasm it is apparent that some guidence is still needed- which in my view is a good reason to get Calguns members involved, even if it is only to observe and lend a hand with keeping participants within the law.

demnogis
01-02-2010, 1:08 PM
I wouldn't be so against it. Organizers of these group UOC events invest a lot of time and research into location, laws, etc. The Huntington Beach meetup went great, and despite the outcry on Calguns, we ran out of informational pamphlets and more people left saying "wow, I didn't know that!" with a smile, than the 1 person who ran to the police nearby and still got informed from a cop with a smile. :)

Positive exposure works. Also, we do highly stress CYA before even thinking about carrying, solo or group.

Fresh fish is not sufficient deterent to their activities.

I think a couple may have been to Calguns, but choose to participate on OCDO as they arent treated like red-headed stepchildren there. In spite of requests to hold off until June, events like this continue to be scheduled and attended with enthusiasm and still growing numbers. (Many of which have not yet heard of Calguns and could become contributing members here.) In spite of the enthusiasm it is apparent that some guidence is still needed- which in my view is a good reason to get Calguns members involved, even if it is only to observe and lend a hand with keeping participants within the law.

technique
01-02-2010, 1:14 PM
Looks planned on OCDO...They know where they are and what surrounds it.
No trout needed.

Liberty1
01-02-2010, 1:15 PM
It isn't that outreach is bad or that people react badly; they don't generally. It's the negative media, legislative, LEA attention/action that we can't counter effectively just yet while awaiting incorporation tools.

That said, I will be attending any events that I can as a good witness/observer in my area just to start building a better relationship with the new crop of activists.

Window_Seat
01-02-2010, 1:35 PM
I was going (W/O OCing), but couldn't (bad ankle injury from a while back getting worse). As I've stated before, it's not a great idea (not a terrible one either) to OC until after we are given some form of protections after McDonald v Chicago, Sykes, et all, and finally, the 9th gives us victory in the Nordyke case, no? It's important to remember that the CA Constitution gives it's citizens no RKBA. Better to wait until after June when we get some serious changes.

Erik.

sv_1
01-02-2010, 2:43 PM
They must be doing their homework choosing locations. In the city i live in its very hard to find anyplace that is not withen 1000' of k-12 school with all the churches and montessori schools.

Does a church count as a k-12 school ?

sytfu_RR
01-02-2010, 2:47 PM
I heard this aswell from some associates within ALCO. Hope it don't turn into a mess.

technique
01-02-2010, 2:58 PM
Does a church count as a k-12 school ?

The ones he is probably referring too...are private schools located on church grounds...

SteveH
01-02-2010, 3:40 PM
Does a church count as a k-12 school ?

If it has a school in it it does. My church has preschool as well as grade K-8.

pingpong
01-02-2010, 5:09 PM
Preschools shouldn't count as a k-12 school right?

Whiskey84
01-02-2010, 8:29 PM
Downtown Livermore doesn't have any schools on 1st street as long as you don't get too far east towards Livermore High or St. Michaels.

N6ATF
01-02-2010, 8:32 PM
Should whip out the Large Swordfish of Justice™ for the cops, who said they wouldn't run serials in violation of the 4A, but did anyway.

CenterX
01-02-2010, 8:39 PM
Preschools shouldn't count as a k-12 school right?

They do. If a church is in session and provided day care and or sunday school then it counts as a school.

No laws that you can not take a gun to church if there is no children's classes or day care. But I bet only a few churches have parishioners that would be cooperative with you if you were found with a gun on the premises.

CitaDeL
01-02-2010, 8:50 PM
They do. If a church is in session and provided day care and or sunday school then it counts as a school.

No laws that you can not take a gun to church if there is no children's classes or day care. But I bet only a few churches have parishioners that would be cooperative with you if you were found with a gun on the premises.

FUD.

Preschools, "sunday schools" and day care are not considered K-12. Please see citation below for definition.

626.9 (e) As used in this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(1) "School zone" means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public
or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1
to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the
grounds of the public or private school.

SteveH
01-02-2010, 10:36 PM
Preschools shouldn't count as a k-12 school right?

If its Pre through K it does.

There is a montessori school by my favorite bar. I just noticed the other day its preschool plus Kindergarten. so it counts.

livermoron
01-02-2010, 11:10 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for all the interest and input.

The meetup went great (except of course for the s/n verbal check on each of the 4 of us that were e-checked). We had 10 UOC'ers and about 20 total folks participate. We gave out a lot of printed materials and were, IMO, good ambassadors of gun ownership and Open Carry.

There was only one negative reaction from the public voiced (an elderly gentleman who has been sufficiently brain-washed by the media to believe that "...if you own a gun you should be in jail").

Everyone take care & Happy New Year,

Livermoron :-)

pullnshoot25
01-02-2010, 11:33 PM
If one more decently established member of Calguns asks if a PRESCHOOL or SUNDAY SCHOOL is equivalent to a KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 12th SCHOOL, I am going to one-up oaklander's (Rainbow?) trout and smack that person with a CHINOOK SALMON.

In all seriousness though, I see both sides of the issue for OC gatherings/outings. I appreciate the zeal and caution exercised by those organizing these events (trust me, it takes quite a bit of time and ***-covering). Equally understood, however, is the wisdom imparted by the CGF team in their dissuasion of OC activities and their desire not to mete or bleed money out in defending such cases of (potentially) little to no merit when that money and time could be better spent in other venues.

Let's all mellow out together...

MT1
01-02-2010, 11:42 PM
Things are moving in the right direction...it doesn't take much for some bad press or an accident of some sort to really throw up a road block and I think UOC is a movement that's gains don't justify it's risks at this time.

JMHO

obeygiant
01-03-2010, 12:30 AM
In all seriousness though, I see both sides of the issue for OC gatherings/outings. I appreciate the zeal and caution exercised by those organizing these events (trust me, it takes quite a bit of time and ***-covering). Equally understood, however, is the wisdom imparted by the CGF team in their dissuasion of OC activities and their desire not to mete or bleed money out in defending such cases of (potentially) little to no merit when that money and time could be better spent in other venues.

Let's all mellow out together...

Well said.

oaklander
01-03-2010, 12:33 AM
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oaklander
01-03-2010, 12:43 AM
Not to dismiss the UOC movement. . .

But I always get a laugh out of the places that they choose. . .

If self-defense is a reason to OC - then how about doing one in East Oakland???

:p

ETA:

J&J's Fish & Chips!
8035 International Blvd (at 81st)

http://i50.tinypic.com/34t9yxs.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/2hre9af.jpg

ONE MONTH Crime map - for good measure. . .

http://i48.tinypic.com/2jflstt.jpg

oaklander
01-03-2010, 12:45 AM
LOL

"The Salmon of Destiny!"

If one more decently established member of Calguns asks if a PRESCHOOL or SUNDAY SCHOOL is equivalent to a KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 12th SCHOOL, I am going to one-up oaklander's (Rainbow?) trout and smack that person with a CHINOOK SALMON.

Gio
01-03-2010, 12:56 AM
Looks like they had a good turn out today. I did not see anyone in that vid going bananas over the fact that they had guns strapped to their sides. I wonder how they would view a Draco AK Pistol out in public :43:

-Gio

Zhukov
01-03-2010, 1:00 AM
While most people do complain about the PC checks on whether the guns are unloaded, I liked the cooperation with police ahead of time.

It helped tone down any major incidents and also will help with the police interactions in the future.

It also probably put them at ease and they would be able to inform dispatch of this so that if they get panicked 911 calls, they can explain.

Yes, I know it's a right and you don't need permission, but in the current climate, I do believe it's nice to foster a better relationship with LE.

pullnshoot25
01-03-2010, 1:06 AM
While most people do complain about the PC checks on whether the guns are unloaded, I liked the cooperation with police ahead of time.

It helped tone down any major incidents and also will help with the police interactions in the future.

It also probably put them at ease and they would be able to inform dispatch of this so that if they get panicked 911 calls, they can explain.

Yes, I know it's a right and you don't need permission, but in the current climate, I do believe it's nice to foster a better relationship with LE.

That's generally SOP, BTW...

nicki
01-03-2010, 1:11 AM
I would like to see the UOCers wait until we have incorporation, but that isn't going to happen.

They are going to do the "UOC" anyway, so perhaps what we should do is focus on helping the UOCer's do things right.

My beef is not that they are carrying, it is their timing, I feel that their actions are pre mature and could create state action that may require lawsuits in the future to clean up.

That being said, the fact is they are taking action and if there numbers are in deed growing, it means that they are getting otherwise apathetic gun owners to take a stand.

The UOCers do make many of us uncomfortable, but you know, you can't make an omelette without cracking some eggs.:D

My heart is with the UOCer's, but my head is with Gene, Bill and the rest of the Calguns foundation board on this one so I am torn.

I am convinced that Gene, Bill and the rest of the Calguns board are committed to going on offense to get back gun rights, so as much as I would like to join you UOCer's, I'll have to stand down till after we have incorporation.

I would guess that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Nicki

N6ATF
01-03-2010, 1:23 AM
If one more decently established member of Calguns asks if a PRESCHOOL or SUNDAY SCHOOL is equivalent to a KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 12th SCHOOL, I am going to one-up oaklander's (Rainbow?) trout and smack that person with a CHINOOK SALMON.

In all seriousness though, I see both sides of the issue for OC gatherings/outings. I appreciate the zeal and caution exercised by those organizing these events (trust me, it takes quite a bit of time and ***-covering). Equally understood, however, is the wisdom imparted by the CGF team in their dissuasion of OC activities and their desire not to mete or bleed money out in defending such cases of (potentially) little to no merit when that money and time could be better spent in other venues.

Let's all mellow out together...

If "we" are going to keep doing these outings... can we at the very least plan to use all the evidence of 1983/4A violations over the years in launching multiple coordinated missile strikes on all these bastards who've done us wrong? The 4A has been incorporated and yet violated with impunity all this time, hasn't it?

battleship
01-03-2010, 1:36 AM
The most captivating bit of boring film footage ive ever viewed.

I commend all who was apart of this.

Though it seemed more like an experiment than just the right to walk around and open carry.

I would like to know as to where everyone went after the coffee house, did you all stay togethar??????????? given that there was not a school close by to the main street, how far did every one venture?????????

Did you feel like you were coralled to just around the coffee house???????????? as the police said enjoy your morning at the coffee house.

Or did you feel comfortable to break away on your own and enjoy the area by yourself????? or perhaps with a friend rather then the group.

Or would leaving the group single you out to greater attention from the police????????????

Was it just coffee??????????? or walking the shop fronts even doing some shopping.

Would just like to get a better idea of your open carry travels.

As for the protestor saying you should be in jail, did you try to let him know what you were doing?????

Or would that of been to much of an altercation given that you were armed???????

pullnshoot25
01-03-2010, 2:00 AM
The most captivating bit of boring film footage ive ever viewed.

I commend all who was apart of this.

Though it seemed more like an experiment than just the right to walk around and open carry.

I would like to know as to where everyone went after the coffee house did you all stay togethar, given that there was not a school close by to the main street, how far did every one venture.

Did you feel like you were coralled to just around the coffee house as the police said enjoy your morning at the coffee house.

Or did you feel comfortable to break away on your own and enjoy the area by yourself or perhaps with a friend rather then the group.

Or would leaving the group single you out to greater attention from the police.

Was it just coffee or walking the shop fronts even doing some shopping.

would just like to get a better idea of your open carry travels.

As for the protestor saying you should be in jail, did you try to let him know what you were doing.

Or would that of been to much of an altercation given that you were armed.

I can't tell if this is a poem or a series of questions...

MP301
01-03-2010, 2:08 AM
Yes, it appears that the hardcore OCers are not going to wait. I am torn as well. So, what is plan B? If you cant stop em (temporarily), then do you join them? Help them? What? Even if we all think they shouldnt be doing it yet, I think we all (or most) agree that they are not doing anything wrong...just maybe premature?

In any case, the bad part is that some are afraid of that those that would do us wrong will use use OCing as an excuse to extend the school zones.

The flip side here is that these kinds of activities desensitize (sp?) people to the presence of a gun. THIS is not only a good thing, but a very important necessity if we are going to get what we want. Changing the image of gun owners by showing the public well dressed, articulate people packing is a must....

So again I ask, what do we do about this?? Complain about how the OCers are gonna screw us and be divided and whine a lot, OR show up at the next one in a tie (even as unarmed observers) in serious numbers to support a common cause?

Anyway, Im definately up for first (and possibly last!) East Oakland OC meet...If im gonna do it, I may as well be entertained whilst I do! SF would be my first choice, however.. Is Nuisance still around?

battleship
01-03-2010, 2:12 AM
Smart arse, its a poem????????????????????????

hollabillz
01-03-2010, 5:48 AM
Not to dismiss the UOC movement. . .

But I always get a laugh out of the places that they choose. . .

If self-defense is a reason to OC - then how about doing one in East Oakland???

:p

ETA:

J&J's Fish & Chips!
8035 International Blvd (at 81st)



While I respect the the, erm, movement, I've never been an advocate of open carry, especially not UOC. I get the ideology, I get the message, but at a practical level, WTF?

HOWEVER.. If we're gonna do this, let's do it right. :D I'm down for an East Oakland meet. At least we won't have to hear "why do you need a gun?!?!" :p Does 3 AM Friday night / Saturday morning work? If nothing's open, we can just walk down dark alleys. You first.

:laugh: But seriously, yea I'm in. Fish and Chips though!? You sure you want to hang out with those limey, gun-loathing Brits?! Can't we get some soul food? Fried chicken, anyone? :o

Or, SF would work too. Tenderloin or Hunters Point? My vote is Tenderloin because there's more, easier escape routes.

LET ME KNOW :chris:

GrizzlyGuy
01-03-2010, 7:32 AM
Nice work you guys! It looks like your event was well planned, you had good interactions with the LEOs, and no drama. Your group appeared to be a diverse and representative cross-section of the population, and the baby was a nice touch. Really good work on the video post-production as well.

If you folks come up here for skiing or snowboarding, ping me. OC-ing slung rifles along the roads outside our ski resorts during the morning and afternoon resort rush hours could be fun. Biathlon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biathlon) is an Olympic sport, right? :D

Yes, it appears that the hardcore OCers are not going to wait. I am torn as well. So, what is plan B? If you cant stop em (temporarily), then do you join them? Help them? What? Even if we all think they shouldnt be doing it yet, I think we all (or most) agree that they are not doing anything wrong...just maybe premature?

Here is my Sun Tzu post on the subject (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3378248&postcount=166). Ole Sun was a heck of a guy. ;)

MudCamper
01-03-2010, 9:09 AM
Not to dismiss the UOC movement. . .

But I always get a laugh out of the places that they choose. . .

If self-defense is a reason to OC - then how about doing one in East Oakland???

:p

While self-defense is the end-goal, public education and political protest are the current activities. Also, Oaklander, please try and keep it civil and try and refrain from your usual chiding. It may be amusing to you but in the end it is just divisive and counterproductive.

I would like to see the UOCers wait until we have incorporation, but that isn't going to happen.

Realize that when you say "the UOCers" you include all of us, including those of us that have honored the CGF request to stand down. There is a large contingent, including all the original players, who are refraining at the current time.

cdtx2001
01-03-2010, 9:43 AM
I've never UOC'd before, but East Oakland sounds like fun, I'm in.

Other interesting places would be somewhere like Santa Cruz, or the ultimate Berkeley. Both places have a large populace of uniformed, ignorant people who know little or nothing of what rights they really have. I see it as a chance to educate and promote.

pullnshoot25
01-03-2010, 9:55 AM
Smart arse, its a poem????????????????????????

It does have a little bit of that flow. Besides, you didn't put down your question marks! Not sure if you got the memo, but poems are actually pretty cool :)

On a relevant side note, it is going to be interesting how many, if any, of the naysayer Calgunners will grow a pair and OC when the time comes. My guess is that very few will. However, I do hope that I am proven wrong.

SteveH
01-03-2010, 10:20 AM
Is CGF going to pay for the defense of the UOC from opencarry.org who got arrested this weekend?

If so does opencarry.org not have its own legal defense fund? It doesnt sit right with me when one website tells people to do something, they get into trouble then come here looking for charity.

oaklander
01-03-2010, 10:27 AM
LOL - hard to take this kind of stuff seriously. . .

"Look at me mom, I've got a gun, and I'm drinking coffee!"

"Look everyone, we even brought some minorities."

ETA: don't tell me what to do in my own thread. . .

:chris:

While self-defense is the end-goal, public education and political protest are the current activities. Also, Oaklander, please try and keep it civil and try and refrain from your usual chiding. It may be amusing to you but in the end it is just divisive and counterproductive.

walkstep
01-03-2010, 10:27 AM
Did anybody else notice on the first video that while the officer was doing the e-check of the UOC'er in the white shirt he had the gun pointed towards the other officers :eek:

CitaDeL
01-03-2010, 10:33 AM
If you cant stop em (temporarily), then do you join them?
... what do we do about this?? Complain about how the OCers are gonna screw us and be divided and whine a lot, OR show up at the next one in a tie (even as unarmed observers) in serious numbers to support a common cause?

Since is it impossible to control the actions of internet strangers with a free will, I think it is ineffectual to oppose and mock their activism. What we must keep in mind, is that in spite of anyones feelings about open carry and the timing, it is under the big tent of 2nd amendment rights.

Calguns, if it is not already, is poised to be the leading authority on all things related to firearms here... I would think this organization deficient if there were none here who would not lend a hand in keeping open carry meetups safe and legal-where you can talk about Calguns to people who never thought you could own a gun and carry it in California. Think of the UOC meetups as a free gunshow, where not everyone passing by your booth already owns a gun or ten. Its an opportunity to proselytize someone other than the choir.

oaklander
01-03-2010, 10:40 AM
I think the "big tent" analogy is incorrect.

2A is more like a school bus that we are all on. We are all headed in the same direction and have the same goals.

Then there's the "short bus."

:p

ETA: I am posting this as "me" and it does not reflect CGF opinion.

Since is it impossible to control the actions of internet strangers with a free will, I think it is ineffectual to oppose and mock their activism. What we must keep in mind, is that in spite of anyones feelings about open carry and the timing, it is under the big tent of 2nd amendment rights.

Calguns, if it is not already, is poised to be the leading authority on all things related to firearms here... I would think this organization deficient if there were none here who would not lend a hand in keeping open carry meetups safe and legal-where you can talk about Calguns to people who never thought you could own a gun and carry it in California. Think of the UOC meetups as a free gunshow, where not everyone passing by your booth already owns a gun or ten. Its an opportunity to proselytize someone other than the choir.

sorensen440
01-03-2010, 10:41 AM
Vids like this make me lean more to the pro UOC side of the fence

oaklander
01-03-2010, 10:43 AM
I'm not saying that it does not look like fun.

:D

Vids like this make me lean more to the pro UOC side of the fence

ChuckBooty
01-03-2010, 10:53 AM
Vids like this make me lean more to the pro UOC side of the fence

Me too...until I read about a UOC'er getting arrested on that same day on the other side of the state. I support it but it makes me nervous.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/35998.html

CitaDeL
01-03-2010, 10:56 AM
I think the "big tent" analogy is incorrect.

2A is more like a school bus that we are all on. We are all headed in the same direction and have the same goals.

Then there's the "short bus."

:p

ETA: I am posting this as "me" and it does not reflect CGF opinion.

Oh I get it. The big school bus goes where all the regular kids go and the short bus takes the retarded and helmet wearing palsy kids to the 'special education' classes. And If I'm putting this together correctly, those who subscribe to your narrow view of the second amendment are on the 'big bus' and those who advocate open carry are on the 'short bus'.

That might be clever if we were in middle school.

Makes me want to take my ball and play with my other friends regardless of any disclaimer posted to soften the impact on those who you represent. Know what Im saying?

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 10:56 AM
Steve, Gene has made it clear that CGF would not defend those arrested while UOCing at this time; I do not believe that OCDO has a defense fund of any sort.

Once U/OC can be of use strategically I believe you'll find many Calgunners participate in diverse group events.

jdberger
01-03-2010, 11:17 AM
Oh I get it. The big school bus goes where all the regular kids go and the short bus takes the retarded and helmet wearing palsy kids to the 'special education' classes. And If I'm putting this together correctly, those who subscribe to your narrow view of the second amendment are on the 'big bus' and those who advocate open carry are on the 'short bus'.

That might be clever if we were in middle school.

Makes me want to take my ball and play with my other friends regardless of any disclaimer posted to soften the impact on those who you represent. Know what Im saying?

Methinks you're taking this a little personal....Oak was simply making a joke. In fact, he's self effacing enough to probably claim that it's him on the short bus.....ymmmv...

SteveH
01-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Steve, Gene has made it clear that CGF would not defend those arrested while UOCing at this time; I do not believe that OCDO has a defense fund of any sort.

As soon as the news broke of the arrest everyone was saying contact CGF.

CCWFacts
01-03-2010, 11:36 AM
Not to dismiss the UOC movement. . .

But I always get a laugh out of the places that they choose. . .

If self-defense is a reason to OC - then how about doing one in East Oakland???

J&J's Fish & Chips!
8035 International Blvd (at 81st)


Now that's an idea! I know that area. Hahaha. I don't know if the worry there will be "e" checks or some other type of checks...

:laugh: But seriously, yea I'm in. Fish and Chips though!? You sure you want to hang out with those limey, gun-loathing Brits?! Can't we get some soul food? Fried chicken, anyone? :o

Haha. I can assure you, you will encounter no Limeys in J&J's Fish & Chips.

I actually think if you did it at J&J's, you would have to leave under police protection, and it would be a mess, and there would be a risk of people getting hurt. While it is perfectly legal, it's not workable. Look at what happens in East Oakland after a Raiders game. You don't want to be in the center of something like that. I support the concept of OC but I don't support possibly creating a situation where people get hurt.

JDoe
01-03-2010, 11:48 AM
Did anybody else notice on the first video that while the officer was doing the e-check of the UOC'er in the white shirt he had the gun pointed towards the other officers :eek:

The other officers didn't seem to notice or care or mind that they were being muzzle swept by one of their own checking to see if unfamiliar handguns were loaded or not. :eek:

Lomic
01-03-2010, 12:08 PM
The other officers didn't seem to notice or care or mind that they were being muzzle swept by one of their own checking to see if unfamiliar handguns were loaded or not. :eek:

I noticed this as well, and thought it was a humorous illustration of the reason you need not be concerned by guns, but the people who are handling them.

sv_1
01-03-2010, 1:05 PM
If one more decently established member of Calguns asks if a PRESCHOOL or SUNDAY SCHOOL is equivalent to a KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 12th SCHOOL, I am going to one-up oaklander's (Rainbow?) trout and smack that person with a CHINOOK SALMON.



Then perhaps an improvement of the search function would be prudent :) My goole-fu is weak, but I searched.

I know I'm not the first to ask, but sometimes clarification is in order- I couldn't remember if they were schools or not.

But hey, I'm always down for sushi- so come on up!

pullnshoot25
01-03-2010, 1:28 PM
Then perhaps an improvement of the search function would be prudent :) My goole-fu is weak, but I searched.

I know I'm not the first to ask, but sometimes clarification is in order- I couldn't remember if they were schools or not.

But hey, I'm always down for sushi- so come on up!

Open Carry FAQ (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZRgaEwQBTArZGM5ajdzNWtfMTM3Z3B4OWdrZ2Q&hl=en). I'm updating it now to clarify some things.

oaklander
01-03-2010, 2:14 PM
Like JD said, you are taking me too seriously. . .

:p

Oh I get it. The big school bus goes where all the regular kids go and the short bus takes the retarded and helmet wearing palsy kids to the 'special education' classes. And If I'm putting this together correctly, those who subscribe to your narrow view of the second amendment are on the 'big bus' and those who advocate open carry are on the 'short bus'.

That might be clever if we were in middle school.

Makes me want to take my ball and play with my other friends regardless of any disclaimer posted to soften the impact on those who you represent. Know what Im saying?

Steyr_223
01-03-2010, 2:25 PM
The bald guy at 1:19 of the 1st video is running for the Cali state house to take the seat currently held by antigun Assembly Majority Leader Alberto Torrico (D-Fremont).. Author of AB 2714: Internet Ammunition Purchases ban..


Adnan Shahab..

Blog on the UOC in Livermoore..

http://adnanshahab.com/

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 2:31 PM
Adnan Shahab has virtually zero chance at winning in that district.

I'm personally very concerned that his fascination with and participation in UOC is motivated by his political ambitions, likely at the expense of stirring a hornets nest that is quite prepared to sting the gun culture statewide.

Electricboy
01-03-2010, 2:35 PM
After McDonald i will be willing to concider UOC in an experienced group.

Question though: can you CCW while UOCing?

pullnshoot25
01-03-2010, 2:59 PM
After McDonald i will be willing to concider UOC in an experienced group.

Question though: can you CCW while UOCing?

Yeah!

Gray Peterson
01-03-2010, 2:59 PM
I am so looking forward to Sykes v. McGinness resolving things in our favor....heee hee hee....hee hee heee...

:31:

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 3:01 PM
Palmer, Sykes... Just win, baby!

LAK Supply
01-03-2010, 3:35 PM
There's one huge positive aspect of this- people being willing to actually suit up and show up. There is always a lot of talk about doing things, but it's much more rare to see a group taking action. I give them kudos for that regardless of what some people here think. I agree it is a good idea to stop flaming and work with them.

nick
01-03-2010, 3:53 PM
Not to dismiss the UOC movement. . .

But I always get a laugh out of the places that they choose. . .

If self-defense is a reason to OC - then how about doing one in East Oakland???

:p

ETA:

J&J's Fish & Chips!
8035 International Blvd (at 81st)


Because self-defense is not the same thing as looking for trouble. It's defending yourself from trouble if it finds you.

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 3:58 PM
LAK, not sure where you see flaming. Most of the UOC debate is behind us with only a few newer posters commenting on aspects covered in past threads.

As with any investment, we should assess the risks and return vs energy/expenditure for value. The real work begins after Palmer/Sykes; between now and then UOC is an exercise in futility and poses undue risks to participants and the culture generally.

SteveH
01-03-2010, 4:13 PM
They are at it again.

Went back to the spot where the UOC guy arrested on Thursday.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum12/36014-3.html

Hope nobody got arrested for witness intimidation this time.

G17GUY
01-03-2010, 4:25 PM
As soon as the news broke of the arrest everyone was saying contact CGF.

I am sure he will be pointed in the right direction. We don't need more bad case law; however, open carrying nutcases that canít afford a lawyer don't seem to understand that.

oaklander
01-03-2010, 4:28 PM
He did get pointed in the right direction. That's all I can say at this time.

I am sure he will be pointed in the right direction. We don't need more bad case law; however, open carrying nutcases that canít afford a lawyer don't seem to understand that.

wilit
01-03-2010, 4:29 PM
Palmer, Sykes... Just win, baby!

Please don't associate Palmer and Sykes with anything associated with Al Davis or his team. We don't want to jinx things.

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 4:31 PM
wilit, as a Chargers fan- I understand. ;)

G17GUY
01-03-2010, 4:32 PM
:D thats funny.Please don't associate Palmer and Sykes with anything associated with Al Davis or his team. We don't want to jinx things.

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 4:37 PM
What if we could get Gene into a white jumpsuit? Hrmmm... Photo op?

bodger
01-03-2010, 4:40 PM
Did anybody else notice on the first video that while the officer was doing the e-check of the UOC'er in the white shirt he had the gun pointed towards the other officers :eek:


That officer displayed some of the worst handling of firearms I've seen yet. If you do that on a military firing range, expect to get the rangemaster's boot up your arse and relieved of your weapon pronto. Probably the same on LEO ranges, I don't have experience with that.

He's checking a gun to see if it's loaded, and muzzle sweeping the whole friggin' area??

I'm afraid I would have had to politely request that the officer point the damn gun in a safe direction.

pullnshoot25
01-03-2010, 5:09 PM
I am sure he will be pointed in the right direction. We don't need more bad case law; however, open carrying nutcases that canít afford a lawyer don't seem to understand that.

Whaddya mean by "nutcase"?

bigcalidave
01-03-2010, 5:41 PM
Adnan Shahab has virtually zero chance at winning in that district.

I'm personally very concerned that his fascination with and participation in UOC is motivated by his political ambitions, likely at the expense of stirring a hornets nest that is quite prepared to sting the gun culture statewide.

Not to mention he only carried a PPK/s instead of one of his (quote from his blog) "my Desert Eagles".. Plural... I mean, if you're going to UOC, why not a pair of Deagles? Nothing makes a bigger statement!

Window_Seat
01-03-2010, 5:56 PM
Adnan Shahab has virtually zero chance at winning in that district.

I'm personally very concerned that his fascination with and participation in UOC is motivated by his political ambitions, likely at the expense of stirring a hornets nest that is quite prepared to sting the gun culture statewide.

I can understand your concern, but he's a lot better than the incumbent we have right now who writes form letters that say he "supports the 2A", but believes in "sensible GC". Thinking about it really, it's hazardous for any candidate pro-2A to participate in these kinds of events because of the rabid hatred to our cause by the anti's.

Erik.

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 6:56 PM
I have pets that are more pro-2A and have probably spent more time around the gun culture than Alberto Torrico.

I'll give you their names if you'd like to write them in.

I can understand your concern, but he's a lot better than the incumbent we have right now who writes form letters that say he "supports the 2A", but believes in "sensible GC". Thinking about it really, it's hazardous for any candidate pro-2A to participate in these kinds of events because of the rabid hatred to our cause by the anti's.

Erik.

CpuFixrMan
01-03-2010, 7:11 PM
Maybe I missed something, but not only did he "sweep" people, he put firearms back into holsters, still cocked? I didn't see him decock anyone's firearms before placing them back into holsters, of course these videos were edited so maybe he dry fired them and that was edited out. Now, if one was to pull it back out, to decock it and put it back in, would they (LEOs) get bent out of shape?

guayuque
01-03-2010, 7:23 PM
I would like to see the UOCers wait until we have incorporation, but that isn't going to happen.

They are going to do the "UOC" anyway, so perhaps what we should do is focus on helping the UOCer's do things right.

My beef is not that they are carrying, it is their timing, I feel that their actions are pre mature and could create state action that may require lawsuits in the future to clean up.

That being said, the fact is they are taking action and if there numbers are in deed growing, it means that they are getting otherwise apathetic gun owners to take a stand.

The UOCers do make many of us uncomfortable, but you know, you can't make an omelette without cracking some eggs.:D

My heart is with the UOCer's, but my head is with Gene, Bill and the rest of the Calguns foundation board on this one so I am torn.

I am convinced that Gene, Bill and the rest of the Calguns board are committed to going on offense to get back gun rights, so as much as I would like to join you UOCer's, I'll have to stand down till after we have incorporation.

I would guess that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Nicki

Well stated.

Purple K
01-03-2010, 10:18 PM
"Can't we all just get along" Remember, we are all on the same team, with common 2A goals. Calgunners and gun owners in general are a diverse group that includes Men & Women, Republicans & Democrats, Conservatives & Liberals, Strait & Gay, Christian & Muslim, etc, etc, etc. We have been able to overcome those differences. Infighting amongst ourselves is one of the biggest threats to our success. Please be tolerent.

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 10:32 PM
"Can't we all just get along" Remember, we are all on the same team, with common 2A goals. Calgunners and gun owners in general are a diverse group that includes Men & Women, Republicans & Democrats, Conservatives & Liberals, Strait & Gay, Christian & Muslim, etc, etc, etc. We have been able to overcome those differences. Infighting amongst ourselves is one of the biggest threats to our success. Please be tolerent.

Not to be crass, but how tolerant should we be of Gorski, Hamblen et al?

MP301
01-03-2010, 11:08 PM
What I want to know is..... If everything goes as planned on incorporation, will CGF officially go pro UOC and defend unlawfull arrests, etc then? Just curious if it just the waiting for incorporation thingy or if there is an additional disagreement with the idea of openly carrying an unloaded gun?

I may be wrong, but the most criticism about UOC seems to come from those that are repulsed by the idea of an unloaded gun exposed in the first place. Would they be as critical if it was a 2A activity that they agreed with? I think carrying an exposed unloaded gun kinda sucks , but it is better then a poke in the eye with a sharp (knife) stick. And a bit of practice makes that Unloaded gun functional in about 2 seconds. I know this because I can do it easily during my drills....kinda like type 1 malfunction and all....

In any case, should I start a UOC in East Oakland sign-up thread yet? I saw some interest on previous posts! SF would be even better.... Let's Rock!

wildhawker
01-03-2010, 11:34 PM
MP, I believe if you search through past posts you'll find many of us are simply waiting for the prudent juncture to begin UOC activities (such as diverse group events). Gene's been pretty clear that it will be strategically useful as well.

However, in the meantime UOC presents some very real risks to us and I have a difficult time comprehending the wisdom in not waiting less than half a year for incorporation.

Purple K
01-04-2010, 12:05 AM
Not to be crass, but how tolerant should we be of Gorski, Hamblen et al?

I wouldn't include either of them as being Calgunners or gun owners in general. You can disect what I wrote, but the jest of it is that we all need to work together. Most pro-gun/2A folks are hitting the target in or near the bullseye, once in a while there's someone like Gorski, etc. that aren't on the paper. I don't include folks like Gorski and Hamblen in the "we."

MP301
01-04-2010, 12:46 AM
MP, I believe if you search through past posts you'll find many of us are simply waiting for the prudent juncture to begin UOC activities (such as diverse group events). Gene's been pretty clear that it will be strategically useful as well.

However, in the meantime UOC presents some very real risks to us and I have a difficult time comprehending the wisdom in not waiting less than half a year for incorporation.

I think im behind the curve a bit with the older posts and positions, so thank you for the information. That does answer my question.

I agree about waiting as well. You waited this long, so a half a year isnt going to kill you.

The only problem I see is that if there are those that just simply wont wait, do we leave them to thier own to possibly screw the pooch OR do we back them up with some damage control so WE dont get screwed because of these premature activities? Its so easy to take the position that they are on thier own, but in the end, is that what is best for all concerned? To me, this is a serious matter (our gun rights) and we need to do whatever it is we need to do to defend/reaquire. There will always be influences that we have no control over (UOCers being one of them) so isnt it important to adapt to the circumstances and do what needs to be done? What is it that needs to be done? I dunno...

Shouldnt we view current active UOCers (and you UOC folks, dont take offense here) as something akin to slightly unruly teenager...over 18, but still young? They are not going along with the program thier parents want them to, even though thier parents are most likely right about whats best. The parents try and influence them the best you can and point out that although being a rock star sounds cool and all, you really should go to college "just in case" that doesnt work out...first. They may decide to try the rock star angle anyway, but your not going to love them any less or abandon them, are you?

And then theres the issue of (and im curious as to if anyone has thought about this) what if it does not go our way in the courts for some reason?
Im as optomistic as most, but one at least has to view the worst case scenario if they have any common sense. What will be the plan (not just regarding UOC) for CGF and all of us if SCOTUS does not give us what we want?


Food for thought...

wildhawker
01-04-2010, 1:21 AM
To address a few of your questions:

The OC community is quite large with thousands of supporters across the state and the US. Laws on OC are quite readily available to anyone capable of researching basic firearms laws. If you own a firearm, it is your obligation to know and follow the laws surrounding their ownership and use.

Gun owners in CA are not positioned to provide "damage control". We, for better or worse, have to live with not only the consequences of our own actions but in many cases those of others as well.

I have no qualms with the OC community self-funding the defense of the participants. Note, however, that they do not- it's still an "at your own risk" activity.

Incorporation of 2A is extremely likely; certain aspects of our RKBA may be fleshed out to varying degrees of satisfaction but our right to "keep" (Heller via McDonald) and "bear" (Sykes/Palmer) functional firearms are not areas of much exposure.

livermoron
01-04-2010, 1:40 AM
Hi All,

The comment was made (para-phrasing) "try this is Oakland". While I am sure this was said at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I WOULD if I lived there. As I live in Livermore, I will carry here for the most part.

I am sure I will carry elsewhere from time to time as I go out and about, but only after doing careful research of the area. It is, of course, important to know the area you carry in for obvious reasons.

As we have broken the ice here in Livermore I hope that future interactions, that will undoubtedly take place, are handled with the same level of professionalism and courtesy by the PD (and maybe less of the 4th Amendment violations).

Just a note - I am a CalGuns supporter. I drop my cash in the box or bucket every time I visit the gun shops, shows, and other events. Just as I send off $$$ to NRA, NRA-ILA, and other pro-gun groups every year. Our rights as Americans are of extreme importance to me and my family. I will stand up for them.

Very Best To All,

Livermoron

Sionadi
01-04-2010, 2:59 AM
I am sure he will be pointed in the right direction. We don't need more bad case law; however, open carrying nutcases that canít afford a lawyer don't seem to understand that.
Who you calling a nutcase? :cuss::cuss:

cbn620
01-04-2010, 4:31 AM
I'm perfectly fine with open carry and support it. In a perfect world anyway. CGF says don't do it for now (if I'm not mistaken; don't want to misrepresent), so yeah, fine, I can respect that too. In the grand scheme of things all I can say is I hope we're all on the same page as to, at some point in the future, peoples' right to keep and bear arms not being infringed upon, either through law or otherwise. That is all I can ask of anyone.

I don't know, I certainly hope CGF doesn't consider OC completely off the table for any possible future circumstance or scenario. Maybe it is not advisable or good for the big picture in terms of now, but I think it would be foolhardy to say there will never be a time and place for it in the future.

Just my thoughts folks.

MudCamper
01-04-2010, 9:22 AM
ETA: I am posting this as "me" and it does not reflect CGF opinion.

Like JD said, you are taking me too seriously. . .

:p

I take you very seriously.

The problem with your near continuous childish insults about OC is that there exists a double standard here on CGN. You are allowed to do this but those with differing opinions are strictly moderated.

And like it or not, as a board member of CGF, your divisive words have negative consequences. At the very least you should be more political. I still continue to give money to CGF, despite the fact that there are 2 board members that make me sick. But I know several people who have sworn never to help CGF as a direct result of your words Oaklander.

Darklyte27
01-04-2010, 6:17 PM
So whos going to the one in Walnut Creek on Feb 6th?
according to http://www.insidebayarea.com/trivalleyherald/localnews/ci_14121268?source=rss

Meplat
01-04-2010, 6:22 PM
Sounds like a good place to OC!!

Not to dismiss the UOC movement. . .

But I always get a laugh out of the places that they choose. . .

If self-defense is a reason to OC - then how about doing one in East Oakland???

:p

ETA:

J&J's Fish & Chips!
8035 International Blvd (at 81st)

http://i50.tinypic.com/34t9yxs.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/2hre9af.jpg

ONE MONTH Crime map - for good measure. . .

http://i48.tinypic.com/2jflstt.jpg

Meplat
01-04-2010, 7:06 PM
I will go on your outings as an observer and whitness with a camera. I have a CCW and will carry as backup.

It does have a little bit of that flow. Besides, you didn't put down your question marks! Not sure if you got the memo, but poems are actually pretty cool :)

On a relevant side note, it is going to be interesting how many, if any, of the naysayer Calgunners will grow a pair and OC when the time comes. My guess is that very few will. However, I do hope that I am proven wrong.

Sionadi
01-04-2010, 7:14 PM
I dont get why so many people are against OC here. I OC everywhere i go and if i cant OC somewhere i dont go there unless I need to.

Meplat
01-04-2010, 7:47 PM
But, they seemed to have a hard assed expression, like trhey had just swallowed a cup of viniger!

I noticed this as well, and thought it was a humorous illustration of the reason you need not be concerned by guns, but the people who are handling them.

Meplat
01-04-2010, 8:03 PM
I have great respect for Don Meredith as a philosiper. I admire their courage but I question their judgment!


LAK, not sure where you see flaming. Most of the UOC debate is behind us with only a few newer posters commenting on aspects covered in past threads.

As with any investment, we should assess the risks and return vs energy/expenditure for value. The real work begins after Palmer/Sykes; between now and then UOC is an exercise in futility and poses undue risks to participants and the culture generally.

otteray
01-04-2010, 8:22 PM
I've never UOC'd before, but East Oakland sounds like fun, I'm in.

Other interesting places would be somewhere like Santa Cruz, or the ultimate Berkeley. Both places have a large populace of uniformed, ignorant people who know little or nothing of what rights they really have. I see it as a chance to educate and promote.

The uniformed, ignorant people here, in Santa Cruz, mostly live on a school campus, UCSC. The students there seem to live for the next protest cause. They will lie down and play dead in the street or take over a school building for you, if it is for socialism and a new world order.
Promote true Bill of Rights freedom here, like you want; and I'd bet you would have a lot of those same morons out in force, along with the city council, protesting and harassing you. Bad stuff would be in the newspapers for progunners here...and we don't need drama right now, for other unmentioned gun rights issue purposes here, this year.
Please, pick another city for the time being, okay?

KylaGWolf
01-04-2010, 9:34 PM
Does a church count as a k-12 school ?

Only if they hold k-12 classes. If it is just a pre-school or after school program then no it wouldn't count.

KylaGWolf
01-04-2010, 9:37 PM
They do. If a church is in session and provided day care and or sunday school then it counts as a school.

No laws that you can not take a gun to church if there is no children's classes or day care. But I bet only a few churches have parishioners that would be cooperative with you if you were found with a gun on the premises.

Daycares do NOT count as a school. They can run a daycare there seven days a week and not be a school by definition of 626.9 PC. Even if they are holding a church service it wouldn't count.

Meplat
01-05-2010, 2:55 PM
It is well past time for cooler heads to prevail on both sides.

"If we do not hang together we will surly hang separately."

I think that was Franklin But I'm not sure.


I take you very seriously.

The problem with your near continuous childish insults about OC is that there exists a double standard here on CGN. You are allowed to do this but those with differing opinions are strictly moderated.

And like it or not, as a board member of CGF, your divisive words have negative consequences. At the very least you should be more political. I still continue to give money to CGF, despite the fact that there are 2 board members that make me sick. But I know several people who have sworn never to help CGF as a direct result of your words Oaklander.