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View Full Version : Got my guns back from the SRPD yesterday


edward
12-31-2009, 11:16 PM
Yes, this is another Thank You Calguns & CGF thread.

Background story here; http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=206123

On Tuesday I was finally able to bring the aforementioned odyssey to a close when I got to my appointment at the Santa Rosa PD station. The process was quick and I had all my paperwork in order; LEGR forms from the DOJ, DROS' and receipts from the original purchases of all the guns, photo ID and some handgun case locks.

Was pretty funny actually, seeing the looks on the clerk's and policeman's faces when the AR, AK, PTR and Saiga 12 came out of their boxes. :eek:

Much credit and thanks to calgunner Whiskey Sauer (my new buddy George) who was invaluable in dealing with the DOJ and SRPD while I was away at bootcamp/MCT. Gene and Don Kilmer were also of great help in generating a stack of info on AW's that dissuaded the PD from their previous position that my EBRs were illegal assault weapons. Wouldn't have been able to do it without you guys.

And without any further delays... PICS!!!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/eds280/IMAG0002.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/eds280/IMAG0003.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/eds280/IMAG0004.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/eds280/IMAG0005.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h135/eds280/IMAG0006.jpg

Also of interesting note, there was never a problem during this process in getting the handguns returned to me, despite the fact that I am not 21. The only thing I had to do was send a photo copy of my HSC to the DOJ. SRPD never asked about it once.

G17GUY
12-31-2009, 11:21 PM
this is awsome, congrats

SteveH
12-31-2009, 11:22 PM
Yes, this is another Thank You Calguns & CGF thread.

Much credit and thanks to calgunner Whiskey Sauer (my new buddy George) who was invaluable in dealing with the DOJ and SRPD while I was away at bootcamp/MCT.

Gun people are great people. Thank you for your service Edward and Kudos to George for helping out in a time of need.

TurboS600
12-31-2009, 11:39 PM
WAIT!!

They took all them guns in the pics and then returned them? If I hadn't seen the pics, I would not have believed it. Someone should get a back rub for getting you all your guns back. :D Not that it has to be you giving, just sayin'.

Turby here - making it family friendly. mmmkay??

K5Cruiser
12-31-2009, 11:49 PM
Congrats on getting your guns back! :D

223Devil
01-01-2010, 8:04 AM
Good you have em back

PatriotnMore
01-01-2010, 8:09 AM
Congrats, and don't forget to send CGF donation.

Nice collection!

dellgsg5
01-01-2010, 8:32 AM
They took all of that:eek: well i'm glad you got it back. congrats for that.

bodger
01-01-2010, 8:41 AM
Outstanding!
I'm amazed and delighted that you got everything back.

Without CalGuns, I fear we would not have happy endings like this.

And thanks again for your service Edward.

cdtx2001
01-01-2010, 9:03 AM
Nice to hear. I'll be willing to bet I know how you'll be spending your new year's day.

woodey
01-01-2010, 9:10 AM
Nice Job, I can't believe you got all that back :eek:

Gio
01-01-2010, 9:17 AM
Glad they were returned to you, big ups to CGN ;)

-Gio

Kid Stanislaus
01-01-2010, 10:26 AM
There's a lot that can be said for stick'n together and fight'n for your rights.

edward
01-01-2010, 10:30 AM
Congrats, and don't forget to send CGF donation.

Nice collection!

Already on it. :cool:

BigDogatPlay
01-01-2010, 10:44 AM
Well played.... very sorry for the circumstances, but happy to see you whole with your collection again. All things considered, not a bad way to start a new year.

eta34
01-01-2010, 10:48 AM
I am a LEO and I noticed that you have a vertical foregrip on one of your rifles. That makes it an assault weapon. I cannot believe they gave it back.







Only kidding! Congrats.

pullnshoot25
01-01-2010, 11:10 AM
Beautiful guns and story. Sucks you had to be a training toy for the PD but you persevered.

GO CGF!

hoffmang
01-01-2010, 12:16 PM
One of the things I love about the work we do at CGF is that we do so much of these sorts of things that I tend to forget about them until they pop back up with a happy ending!

Glad your guns are back and I too want to thank WhiskeySauer for his work on this. We're happy to have the leverage of even more well informed folks out fighting the good fight with CGF serving as backup.

-Gene

Seesm
01-01-2010, 12:40 PM
Gene you guys do soo much for all of us I am impressed more and more, that your able to make sense with some of the nuts stuff we deal with in CA.

OP congrats on getting your stuff back. And our heartfelt sympathies to your family and RIP to your Mom.

secretasianman
01-01-2010, 1:21 PM
Awesome. Being a former resident and frequent visitor to Santa Rosa, I'm glad they are now set straight. Is there any documentation from them that can be shared with us to avoid any future EBR confiscations?

My sympathies for the loss of your mother.

edward
01-01-2010, 1:37 PM
Not so much in the way of documentation.
There is only the letter they sent saying that 'certain firearms' were cleared to be put on the firearms to be released list.
The letter didn't specify by make or model or anything. It was just a letter saying the list had been updated. So I don't think it would be specific enough for anyone to use in their defense. Might be wrong on that, so I'll look back on the letters they sent again anyway.

Ballistic043
01-01-2010, 1:40 PM
im happy to hear you got them back. im getting my guns back from OCSD in the next 3 months. thats when the statute officially runs out on my case that started a few years ago. (was arrested, had guns confiscated on presumption that they were illegal AW's) i can not wait to see their reactions when they pull my stuff out!! ill be picking up,

1 pre ban .50 Cal gold plated desert eagle
1 sig sp2022
1 HK USP
1 tokarev TT25
1 mossberg 500
2 complete off list rifles and one unfinished receiver. about 7 grand worth of stuff

:) i am getting excited already! another win for CG!

oldyeller
01-01-2010, 1:41 PM
Wow, that is my neck of the woods- glad the department is better informed.

So sorry for your loss

Harbinger
01-01-2010, 1:57 PM
Most excellent. $50 CGF donation sent!

ke6guj
01-01-2010, 2:03 PM
im happy to hear you got them back. im getting my guns back from OCSD in the next 3 months. thats when the statute officially runs out on my case that started a few years ago. (was arrested, had guns confiscated on presumption that they were illegal AW's) i can not wait to see their reactions when they pull my stuff out!! ill be picking up,


DId you see this thread, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=250919 ?


I think it is important to note that Finley informed me that Orange County Sheriff Department did not have a policy on Bullet Buttons prior to the seizure. Though the firearm was wrongfully seized as an "assault weapon" when it was not, it was due to a lack of policy on the issue. The fact that they both returned the firearm and are now using the CGF flow chart for guidance is a huge step in the right direction. That being said, let's reserve the policy critiques for those who have not adopted the CGF AW Guide - ahem LAPD. Perhaps, dare I say, even provide positive feedback to the Sheriff on the comment page for their appreciation of the accuracy of the CGF AW Guide? A little goodwill goes a long way . . . sometimes. But when it doesn't, there's always the hammer.

Soldier415
01-01-2010, 2:11 PM
I love hearing good news :D

liketoshoot
01-01-2010, 2:31 PM
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! what a way to get the new one going.
So sorry for your loss and glad that in the end it is setteled in your favor.

artherd
01-01-2010, 2:43 PM
You know, I never get tired of hearing how we stopped what likely would have been a plea bargain and destruction of guns - all for legal things.

Happy New Year from CGF!

Whiskey_Sauer
01-01-2010, 4:18 PM
First of all, Edward, it was my privilege to represent you pro bono in this matter. Our country owes a great deal of gratitude to young men and women like you, and I want to thank you for your service.

To all, there are some lessons to be learned here, and some things you ought to know about law enforcement, particularly some at the California DOJ Bureau of Firearms. (I thought of starting a separate thread on this, but here it goes.)

One of the things that very much helped in getting Edward's guns back was contacting and utilizing other law enforcement resources as cross-references. Particularly helpful were the folks at the DOJ's Bureau of Forensic Services, who are staffed with sympathetic and relatively knowledgeable people who recognize that magazine-locked semiautomatic weapons are, when configured properly, (1) legal under California law, and (2) not the problem that our policy-making Legislature believes them to be.

In fact, with a little friendly persuasion (easy for a former prosecutor like me), and a sympathetic client (easy with a young Marine like Edward), I had one person at the DOJ who offered to be an "intermediary" or a technical reference, and explain to the local police department/officer the technical aspects of properly-configured weapons which comply with the law. And another person at the DOJ offered (at my request and some begging) to be an expert witness on Edward's behalf in the event we filed a civil action. (A criminal prosecution would have posed a different situation, understandably.) Being able to use them as references in persuading the SRPD to release the weapons was invaluable.

The point is, the rank-and-file of our state DOJ is not filled with gun-hating prohibitionists, as is sometimes suggested around here. Rather, as is true of law enforcement generally, in my experience at least, the non-policy making rank and file are generally sympathetic to civilian gun ownership and the right to self defense generally. With a little bridge-building, we should see our contacts with the DOJ and other like-minded law enforcement officers as valuable resources, rather than institutional adversaries.

With regard to the Santa Rosa Police Department, I would like to say that I found the officer involved to be professional, courteous, once I established who I am and who the client is, and generally sympathetic. (In fact, I intend to write a letter to the Department commending him for his professionalism.) One needs to understand, as I stated in our five-page demand letter, that this area involves somewhat recent developments of the law, and there is not a lot of police experience with civilian ownership of these kinds of weapons in smaller departments yet, which is why the last point of the previous paragraph is particularly important. Sure, we had to spoon-feed it to them, in a non-accusatory and non-adversarial manner, as they initially classified these as "assault weapons," which had some ominous implications for Edward. And we also needed to be sufficiently prepared to prove our position if legal action were initiated and we had to deal with a city attorney, or even, heaven forbid, a prosecutor. But at the end of the day, with a little friendly shop-talk (instead of threats and accusations), we took the right approach, and everybody left relatively satisfied.

Happy New Year, all, and congrats Ed for getting your guns back.

WS

SkatinJJ
01-01-2010, 4:33 PM
Excellent outcome!

Semper FI!!!

JJ

KylaGWolf
01-01-2010, 4:39 PM
First of all, Edward, it was my privilege to represent you pro bono in this matter. Our country owes a great deal of gratitude to young men and women like you, and I want to thank you for your service.

To all, there are some lessons to be learned here, and some things you ought to know about law enforcement, particularly some at the California DOJ Bureau of Firearms. (I thought of starting a separate thread on this, but here it goes.)

One of the things that very much helped in getting Edward's guns back was contacting and utilizing other law enforcement resources as cross-references. Particularly helpful were the folks at the DOJ's Bureau of Forensic Services, who are staffed with sympathetic and relatively knowledgeable people who recognize that magazine-locked semiautomatic weapons are, when configured properly, (1) legal under California law, and (2) not the problem that our policy-making Legislature believes them to be.

In fact, with a little friendly persuasion (easy for a former prosecutor like me), and a sympathetic client (easy with a young Marine like Edward), I had one person at the DOJ who offered to be an "intermediary" or a technical reference, and explain to the local police department/officer the technical aspects of properly-configured weapons which comply with the law. And another person at the DOJ offered (at my request and some begging) to be an expert witness on Edward's behalf in the event we filed a civil action. (A criminal prosecution would have posed a different situation, understandably.) Being able to use them as references in persuading the SRPD to release the weapons was invaluable.

The point is, the rank-and-file of our state DOJ is not filled with gun-hating prohibitionists, as is sometimes suggested around here. Rather, as is true of law enforcement generally, in my experience at least, the non-policy making rank and file are generally sympathetic to civilian gun ownership and the right to self defense generally. With a little bridge-building, we should see our contacts with the DOJ and other like-minded law enforcement officers as valuable resources, rather than institutional adversaries.

With regard to the Santa Rosa Police Department, I would like to say that I found the officer involved to be professional, courteous, once I established who I am and who the client is, and generally sympathetic. (In fact, I intend to write a letter to the Department commending him for his professionalism.) One needs to understand, as I stated in our five-page demand letter, that this area involves somewhat recent developments of the law, and there is not a lot of police experience with civilian ownership of these kinds of weapons in smaller departments yet, which is why the last point of the previous paragraph is particularly important. Sure, we had to spoon-feed it to them, in a non-accusatory and non-adversarial manner, as they initially classified these as "assault weapons," which had some ominous implications for Edward. And we also needed to be sufficiently prepared to prove our position if legal action were initiated and we had to deal with a city attorney, or even, heaven forbid, a prosecutor. But at the end of the day, with a little friendly shop-talk (instead of threats and accusations), we took the right approach, and everybody left relatively satisfied.

Happy New Year, all, and congrats Ed for getting your guns back.

WS

First I want to say Congratulations Edward for getting everything back. Second happy new year and thank you for serving.

Whiskey_Sauer You made some very valid points. While yes there are LEOs that are not friendly to 2A rights for the most part they are. Sometimes I get very frustrated to here all the bashing of those in LE field. Then again maybe because I was raised around it and for a while worked within it my view is a bit different from those that have never seen them for anything other than when something goes wrong. You did some wonderful work on this situation and hope that the contacts you made become allies with us in the fight to make things right in this state.

oldyeller
01-01-2010, 5:17 PM
Thank You Whiskey_Sauer for helping out, and Edward for your service.

It is good to hear you could talk to DOJ on the same page, and have this kind of outcome. All I hear is that the DOJ is totally against the bullet button, and doing their best to turn it around, and this kind of de-bunks that theory.

Again, Thank You:)

hoffmang
01-01-2010, 5:54 PM
WS,

Are you conflating the Law Enforcement division at CA DOJ with the BoF? Most (but not all) BoF folks fit the disparaging comments while the LE and actual crime lab guys are rock stars and fully fair.

-Gene

Marxman
01-02-2010, 11:48 AM
Nice PTR, With the lighting effect that looks pretty mean! No wonder they thought it was an assault weapon - they probably walked away with brown underwear after seeing that beast! Congratulations on their safe return.

scrat
01-02-2010, 6:47 PM
Wow that is awesome. thanks calguns

obeygiant
01-02-2010, 6:59 PM
Edward, Whiskey Sauer and CGF congratulations on another spectacular win.

Vtec44
01-02-2010, 11:14 PM
Wow, happy New Year to you! :D

and a big THANK YOU to CGF!

MT1
01-02-2010, 11:37 PM
Glad to hear you got your property back.


Also very sorry for your loss.

GrayWolf09
01-03-2010, 12:18 PM
Thanks Whiskey_Sauer for donating your time and effort to protect all our gun rights.

Edward, sorry for your loss but I am glad you got your guns back and that you know there are those that care.

Sniper3142
01-03-2010, 1:06 PM
Congratulations to the OP for getting his legally owned firearms back.

What pisses me off however is that this kind of outcome is the exception to the rule!

Police agencies (yes, ALL of them) seem to have an agenda to try and make recovery of legally owned firearms as hard, expensive, and difficult as possible. This is an effort to make the legal owners give up their attempt to recover their property so the police can destroy the firearms.

:mad:

"One more firearms off the streets" is a phrase they like to use. The fact that the firearm WASN'T on the street and was in fact legally owned by citizen seems to be beyond their understanding.

gbp
01-03-2010, 1:28 PM
Congratulations to everyone involved.
These are the kind of stories that just make my day
well done sirs!!