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View Full Version : How can we get .50 bmg back in Business


upinflames2400
12-31-2009, 1:18 PM
I understand that it is the most powerful rifle but why it got banned was stupid. 49 other states are allowed to own.

Glock22Fan
12-31-2009, 1:28 PM
But they were designed to bring down commercial aircraft and vaporize cops!

Never mind that at the time they were designed, there were no commercial aircraft, and even today, a Top Gun fighter pilot would expect to expend a ####-load of .50 bmg in order to bring down an opponent.

That's why terrorists buy shoulder-fired missiles instead of BAR's.

Purple K
12-31-2009, 1:30 PM
I'm sure that we'll get .50 cal's back in due time after the McDonald decision is announced in June. I'm sure that it's on the "to do" list right after CCW and the handgun roster. One battle at a time and eventually you win the war.

bwiese
12-31-2009, 1:39 PM
There are certain exemptions possible for a very limited subset of key modern 50BMG rifles and this is being explored.

SJgunguy24
12-31-2009, 1:42 PM
From what I understand the .416 offers close to the same range with better ballistics and without the "evil" name 50BMG

mrkubota
12-31-2009, 1:46 PM
From what I understand the .416 offers close to the same range with better ballistics and without the "evil" name 50BMG

Too proprietary and expensive an alternative....

The .50DTC-EDM round is a better solution for the moment.
Identical ballistics/performance with the same source of components as BMG...

http://www.daplane.com/50bmg/50dtc/cart_comp_00.jpg

bohoki
12-31-2009, 1:53 PM
yes rifles of that caliber are banned

and pistols of that caliber are destructive devices

but non shoulder fired long guns of that caliber seem ok

timdps
12-31-2009, 2:03 PM
There are certain exemptions possible for a very limited subset of key modern 50BMG rifles and this is being explored.

If ya simply have to have a .50 BMG firearm, go with the M2HB or a DShK chambered in .50 BMG. They are not .50 BMG rifles so are legal in CA...:43:

Tim

bwiese
12-31-2009, 2:10 PM
If ya simply have to have a .50 BMG firearm, go with the M2HB or a DShK chambered in .50 BMG. They are not .50 BMG rifles so are legal in CA...:43:

Yes but we are pursuing a separate path for certain modern production items.

ke6guj
12-31-2009, 2:13 PM
There are certain exemptions possible for a very limited subset of key modern 50BMG rifles and this is being explored.:lurk5:

five.five-six
12-31-2009, 2:14 PM
IMO, just neck it down 10/1000, make a new round... let's call it the ".49 Feinstein"


or new chamber specs with 10/1000 shorter OLL, call it the .50 brady

ke6guj
12-31-2009, 2:19 PM
IMO, just neck it down 10/1000, make a new round... let's call it the ".49 Feinstein" you do that and now you are dealing with dimensionally non-standard barrels and can't use existing .510" diameter bullets.

or new chamber specs with 10/1000 shorter OLL, call it the .50 bradybasically already done, it is called the .510 DTC ,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.510_DTC_EUROP . Rifle makers already chamber rifles in it, and there is "production" ammo available for it for those that do not want to reload.

five.five-six
12-31-2009, 2:24 PM
yea, but, i want a round named after the Brady campaign to prevent gun violence... preferably a really big scary dangerous one that could take down airplanes and vaporize cops


I don't think it would be all that hard to produce .49 bullets, if it was named the Feinstein, I would just have to have one

ke6guj
12-31-2009, 2:28 PM
I don't think it would be all that hard to produce .49 bullets, if it was named the Feinstein, I would just have to have one

Its not "hard" to produce .49" bullets, its just that it probably wouldn't be cost effective. You'd be dealing with smaller production runs than the normal .510" bullet stuff, so your production costs would be greater.

The Director
12-31-2009, 2:36 PM
.512 Pelostein is my vote!

SuperSet
12-31-2009, 2:46 PM
With our limited legal resources, I'd hope that CGF is targeting CCW and the high cap magazine ban first.

wilit
12-31-2009, 2:49 PM
There are certain exemptions possible for a very limited subset of key modern 50BMG rifles and this is being explored.

I like the sound of that.

:D Should we know more in two weeks?

five.five-six
12-31-2009, 2:53 PM
:D Should we know more in two weeks?


ohhhhh... you make me miss shopkeep.... good times!

supersonic
12-31-2009, 2:55 PM
With our limited legal resources, I'd hope that CGF is targeting CCW and the high cap magazine ban first.

+100%!!!!!!!:cool:

hoffmang
12-31-2009, 2:56 PM
With our limited legal resources, I'd hope that CGF is targeting CCW and the high cap magazine ban first.

We are, but the .50bmg ban can be circumvented in other ways. It's not the priority but real groundwork has been put in already.

-Gene

Spyder
12-31-2009, 3:30 PM
Nah, don't bring BMG back...then I'll have wasted all my money on DTC stuff!!! :D

upinflames2400
12-31-2009, 3:32 PM
the only reason i bring this up is because 1 i think Schwarzenegger is an idiot and 2 i want to purchase a barrett .50 cal. i wish that they would put some civilized, real american citizens in these political offices one day. Ones that weren't raised in families that had millions of dollars, ones that had hobbies other than typing class and debate. And ones that actually knew what back breaking work was! And especially ones that knew how to have some fun.

upinflames2400
12-31-2009, 3:32 PM
Nah, don't bring BMG back...then I'll have wasted all my money on DTC stuff!!! :D

Just sell it and get a barrett later :)

wash
12-31-2009, 3:40 PM
I'm interested to know if the new Semi-automatic Serbu will fall within that exemption?

Either way, I'm not too worried, the price of ammo, even reloading is keeping me out of the .510 market. For anyone with the budget to shoot .50 BMG, the cost to go .510 DTC shouldn't stop them.

We'll get back our .50's eventually, hopefully I'll be able to afford one some day.

The Director
12-31-2009, 4:21 PM
We are, but the .50bmg ban can be circumvented in other ways. It's not the priority but real groundwork has been put in already.

-Gene

Like what other ways besides a nominally different caliber and a non shoulder fired weapon?

hoffmang
12-31-2009, 5:08 PM
Like what other ways besides a nominally different caliber and a non shoulder fired weapon?

There are odd exceptions to the .50BMG ban that can be exploited.

-Gene

ldivinag
12-31-2009, 6:28 PM
uh oh... {insert popcorn eating smiley}...



:)

CCWFacts
12-31-2009, 6:41 PM
I understand that it is the most powerful rifle but why it got banned was stupid. 49 other states are allowed to own.

It's not the most powerful rifle, not at all.

I've heard that 338 Lapua Magnum has longer range and more accuracy.

I know there are other calibers out there that are more powerful than the 50 BMG also.

In particular, the Soviet 50 caliber round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.7x108mm) has more bang, and it's legal here, and there must be a lot of surplus ammo available for it. I have long wondered why no one introduces Soviet 50 caliber rifles here. It would be a great fit, especially in California.

For example, the KSVK 12.7 mm is chambered in that round, and I assume it would be California legal (sans supressor of course):

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/ksvk.jpg

Looks pretty cool actually!

Turbinator
12-31-2009, 6:44 PM
yea, but, i want a round named after the Brady campaign to prevent gun violence... preferably a really big scary dangerous one that could take down airplanes and vaporize cops

I know you're joking about the cops part, but we have some highly respected current and retired pro-2nd cops here on this board so why don't we just leave that little part out of your wish list.

How about saying that you want a round that is big, scary, can take down planes, and make anti's poop in their pants?

Turby

Turbinator
12-31-2009, 6:45 PM
Looks pretty cool actually!

Cool? Looks like something you could build in a third world village using some hand tools and bubble gum. :)

Turby

IrishPirate
12-31-2009, 6:49 PM
If ya simply have to have a .50 BMG firearm, go with the M2HB or a DShK chambered in .50 BMG. They are not .50 BMG rifles so are legal in CA...:43:

Tim

i thought the language of the ban was specific to the bullet. "guns that can chamber and fire the 50BMG". could be wrong, but if so wouldn't that include the ones you mentioned? i'm not familiar with them but you said they're chambered in .50BMG but they're not .50BMG rifles.......i'm lost there.....

Lagduf
12-31-2009, 7:28 PM
IMO, just neck it down 10/1000, make a new round... let's call it the ".49 Feinstein"


or new chamber specs with 10/1000 shorter OLL, call it the .50 brady

Sir, you need to come over and clean my monitor and keyboard after I spit soda all over both them while laughing out loud to your comments.

ke6guj
12-31-2009, 7:31 PM
i thought the language of the ban was specific to the bullet. "guns that can chamber and fire the 50BMG". could be wrong, but if so wouldn't that include the ones you mentioned? i'm not familiar with them but you said they're chambered in .50BMG but they're not .50BMG rifles.......i'm lost there.....

Here, read the PC for yourself,

12280(c) Any person who, within this state, possesses any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided in this chapter, is punishable by a fine of one thousand dollars($1,000), imprisonment in a county jail for a period not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment. However, a first violation of these provisions is punishable by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500), if the person was found in possession of no more than two firearms in compliance with subdivision (a) of Section 12285 and the person meets the conditions set forth in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3):


And .50BMG rifle is defined as the following.

2278. (a) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG rifle" means a center fire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5, or a machinegun, as defined in Section 12200.
(b) As used in this chapter, a ".50 BMG cartridge" means a cartridge that is designed and intended to be fired from a center fire rifle and that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It has an overall length of 5.54 inches from the base to the tip of the bullet.
(2) The bullet diameter for the cartridge is from .510 to, and including, .511 inch.
(3) The case base diameter for the cartridge is from .800 inch to, and including, .804 inch.
(4) The cartridge case length is 3.91 inches.
(c) A ".50 BMG rifle" does not include any "antique firearm," nor any curio or relic as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(d) As used in this section, "antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

and rifle is defined as the following,
12020(c)(20) As used in this section, a "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
If it isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder, then it doesn't meet the definition of a rifle. And if it doesn't meet the definition of a "rifle", then it can't be a ".50 BMG rifle".

A Ma Duece with its spade grips shouldn't meet the definition of a rifle, so it shouldn't be considered a .50BMG rifle. However, that hasn't stopped CADOJ from confiscating at least one M2 from a calgunner (no charges filed IIRC). An M2 is just a firearm that fires .50BMG ammo, it isn't a .50BMG rifle.

The Director
12-31-2009, 8:25 PM
A Ma Duece with its spade grips shouldn't meet the definition of a rifle, so it shouldn't be considered a .50BMG rifle. However, that hasn't stopped CADOJ from confiscating at least one M2 from a calgunner (no charges filed IIRC). An M2 is just a firearm that fires .50BMG ammo, it isn't a .50BMG rifle.

By that definition of rifle...none of the BMGs are truly rifles as they are all designed to be fired from a bipod...even though they have vestigial stocks.

So is a .50BMG rifle with no stock on a bipod still a rifle?

bigstick61
12-31-2009, 8:55 PM
So would a Boys Rifle with a barel chambered for .50 BMG aside from the .55 barrel (or instead of it) be considered exempt on account of it being a C&R (by age of nothing else)?

ke6guj
12-31-2009, 9:59 PM
By that definition of rifle...none of the BMGs are truly rifles as they are all designed to be fired from a bipod...even though they have vestigial stocks.

So is a .50BMG rifle with no stock on a bipod still a rifle?It sounds like you assume that if it isn't designed to be fired off-hand then it isn't a rifle. I doubt CADOJ would take that position. Nothing in the rifle definition states that it has to be designed to be fired from the shoulder while standing, just that it is fired from the shoulder. I think placing the stock against your shoulder while using a bipod still meets the rifle definition. Besides, many .50BMG rifles can be fired off-hand if you want to.




So would a Boys Rifle with a barel chambered for .50 BMG aside from the .55 barrel (or instead of it) be considered exempt on account of it being a C&R (by age of nothing else)?
It would appear so. I do know that Boys rifles with .50BMG barrels have been sold as C&R, and that a CG'er called ATF and got a verbal confirmation that swapping barrels did not void the C&R status, but he was gonna try to get it in writing, haven't heard anything more about it.

CSACANNONEER
12-31-2009, 10:16 PM
Just sell it and get a barrett later :)

Why would anyone want a Barrett instead of a precision 50BMG? Yea, Barrett has a "name" but, you pay a lot for that name and it won't give you the same percission of other 50BMGs which cost less than half of a Barrett.

If you think that you need a semi auto to shoot fast, think again. I have watched a FCSA World Record set in less than 38 seconds with a shell holder action. Yep, 5 shots in under 38 seconds where the shooter had to completely remove the bolt from the gun, remove the spent brass from the bolt, load a fresh round in the bolt and replace the bolt in the rifle. BTW, it was a 5 shot 2.608" group at 1000 yards.

The Director
12-31-2009, 11:16 PM
It sounds like you assume that if it isn't designed to be fired off-hand then it isn't a rifle. I doubt CADOJ would take that position. Nothing in the rifle definition states that it has to be designed to be fired from the shoulder while standing, just that it is fired from the shoulder. I think placing the stock against your shoulder while using a bipod still meets the rifle definition. Besides, many .50BMG rifles can be fired off-hand if you want to.



Well real curious as to just what loophole Hoffmang is talking about then:)

G17GUY
12-31-2009, 11:36 PM
How about saying that you want a round that is big, scary, can take down planes, and make anti's poop in their pants?

Turby

I know you're joking about the airplane part, but we have some highly respected current and retired pro-2nd pilots here on this board so why don't we just leave that little part out of your wish list.

The Director
12-31-2009, 11:38 PM
I know you're joking about the airplane part, but we have some highly respected current and retired pro-2nd pilots here on this board so why don't we just leave that little part out of your wish list.

I know Turby was joking about the pooping in your pants part, but we have some current and respected pro 2nd seniors on the boards who use depends.....please leave that out of your wish list as well.

timdps
01-01-2010, 12:47 AM
12.7x 108 rounds are pretty rare in the USA. Have seen prices running in the area of $12 and up per round:
http://www.bigskysurplus.com
50 CAL. RUSSIAN BALL AMMO — $19 each — APIT --- $40 each
50 CAL. RUSSIAN FIRED CASES steel cases— $5 each --- brass cases — $20 each
50 CAL. RUSSIAN DUMMY ROUNDS steel case — $15 each brass case — $29 each

The round is still in heavy use all over the world so surplus ammo is very rare.

The batch of DShK parts kits imported by Centerfire have sparked quite a bit of interest in the round, but I thyink most people building guns are opting for a .50 BMG conversion using the 12.7 belts, which conveniently come in 10 round segments.

Tim




In particular, the Soviet 50 caliber round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.7x108mm) has more bang, and it's legal here, and there must be a lot of surplus ammo available for it. I have long wondered why no one introduces Soviet 50 caliber rifles here. It would be a great fit, especially in California.

Meplat
01-01-2010, 2:39 AM
This is a very interesting thread. I have a US MilSerp aircraft barrel that I was going to build a rifle on until the ban overtook me. I would love to make a tripod or carriage mounted (very) light artillery pice out of this thing if it would be lawful.:43:

CSACANNONEER
01-01-2010, 8:06 AM
How about saying that you want a round that is big, scary, can take down planes, and make anti's poop in their pants?

Turby


Don't some antis pay a lot for this?

upinflames2400
01-01-2010, 12:52 PM
Cool? Looks like something you could build in a third world village using some hand tools and bubble gum. :)

Turby

Haha thats exactly what i think. I really want to buy a barrett though eventually. Maybe in a .416 or a .338LM :D

five.five-six
01-01-2010, 11:33 PM
I know you're joking about the cops part, but we have some highly respected current and retired pro-2nd cops here on this board so why don't we just leave that little part out of your wish list.

How about saying that you want a round that is big, scary, can take down planes, and make anti's poop in their pants?

Turby

:lol:

I seriously hope that nobody took offense to my jest, well except members of the Brady bunch and their ilk

lehn20
01-02-2010, 8:59 PM
50BMG technology is outdated:) The 416 is a better round. Just buy that while you wait for 50s to be legal again.

artherd
01-02-2010, 9:08 PM
.50BMG ban is in the sights of CGF. I got mine before the ban, but I want you all to have yours too.

anthonyca
01-02-2010, 9:33 PM
.50BMG ban is in the sights of CGF. I got mine before the ban, but I want you all to have yours too.

That is one of great things about CGF board members, they want us
all to have freedom and happiness. I remember the AWB and many people only cared that they got theirs first.

Window_Seat
01-02-2010, 9:38 PM
DQ:

If we get the .50 BMG back, is it also possible to get full auto AR or M16 (OR 416) without having to register them with the DOJ and all that? Please educate me on this.

Erik.

artherd
01-02-2010, 10:51 PM
That is one of great things about CGF board members, they want us
all to have freedom and happiness. I remember the AWB and many people only cared that they got theirs first.

Thanks! I can't stand that mentality personally. Freedom is for everyone.

Consider a donation to The Calguns Foundation so we can fund such a case/endeavor.

Click here to donate to CGF:
GUNPAL: https://www.gunpal.net/images/buttons/gunpal_donate_v1.png (https://www.gunpal.net/gp?req=xpress&hbid=0000000001086101)

PAYPAL: https://www.paypal.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=6137065)

upinflames2400
01-03-2010, 12:22 AM
Thanks! I can't stand that mentality personally. Freedom is for everyone.

Consider a donation to The Calguns Foundation so we can fund such a case/endeavor.

Click here to donate to CGF:
GUNPAL: https://www.gunpal.net/images/buttons/gunpal_donate_v1.png (https://www.gunpal.net/gp?req=xpress&hbid=0000000001086101)

PAYPAL: https://www.paypal.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=6137065)

Well sir, my bills are finally getting caught up from the holidays and once i have a little more i will be more than happy to donate to this fund. Ever since i joined calguns has been nothing but the best info and suggestions anyone has given me :D

upinflames2400
01-03-2010, 12:25 AM
It's not the most powerful rifle, not at all.

I've heard that 338 Lapua Magnum has longer range and more accuracy.

I know there are other calibers out there that are more powerful than the 50 BMG also.

In particular, the Soviet 50 caliber round (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.7x108mm) has more bang, and it's legal here, and there must be a lot of surplus ammo available for it. I have long wondered why no one introduces Soviet 50 caliber rifles here. It would be a great fit, especially in California.

For example, the KSVK 12.7 mm is chambered in that round, and I assume it would be California legal (sans supressor of course):

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/ksvk.jpg

Looks pretty cool actually!

A .338LM is one of my considerations since its supposedly very accurate to 1500 meters and fairly reasonable to reload. I wish there was more info on .416 cause ive heard thats a pretty damn bad a** round :D

Meplat
01-03-2010, 4:23 AM
I doubt they would be offended by use against enemy aircraft. We are all in the unorganized militia after all.



I know you're joking about the airplane part, but we have some highly respected current and retired pro-2nd pilots here on this board so why don't we just leave that little part out of your wish list.

CCWFacts
01-03-2010, 11:50 AM
12.7x 108 rounds are pretty rare in the USA. Have seen prices running in the area of $12 and up per round:

That's probably because no one is importing it in quantity. If there were more guns here in CA chambered for it, it would make sense for someone to import it, and the price should be cheaper than 50 BMG, given that it's made in the FSU etc.

five.five-six
01-04-2010, 2:17 AM
I know Turby was joking about the pooping in your pants part, but we have some current and respected pro 2nd seniors on the boards who use depends.....please leave that out of your wish list as well.


:lol:

we would not want to offend John McCain ;)

OleCuss
01-04-2010, 5:28 PM
I doubt they would be offended by use against enemy aircraft. We are all in the unorganized militia after all.

Not all of us are. IIRC, in California the membership in the unorganized militia disappears after 45 years of age.

I'm nicely on the other side of that age and now that I am no longer in the Organized Militia I don't have a legal obligation to answer a call to the militia. . .