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View Full Version : Truck bed lock - considered CA approved locked container


high_revs
12-30-2009, 10:32 PM
A buddy of mind is asking (he's a non-gun owner, yet but he drives us now and then when he joins us). Yes, I know he can use the cab provided we use locked containers (CA and Federal compliant), along with out of sight-out of mind cover (same approach as SUV, station wagons, etc.). But we're looking more about legality of a hard cover for the truck bed. He's getting a lock with it but unsure if it'll be the manual or remote control.

Does this lockable hard cover truck bed tonneau with the lock accessories qualify as an approved lock/ meet the definition of a locked container?

Truck bed tonneau hard cover - http://www.pace-edwards.com/fullmetal_jr.html

Locks:
manual - http://www.pace-edwards.com/poplock.html
automatic/remote - http://www.pace-edwards.com/powergate.html

[EDIT] I'm leaning yes here myself like rp1911. But better safe than sorry and ask for some opinions.

RP1911
12-30-2009, 10:41 PM
I say yes.

cmth
12-31-2009, 12:11 AM
It serves the same function as a car's trunk, so I would say yes.

tombinghamthegreat
12-31-2009, 2:36 AM
There is no such thing as CA approved locks or federal approved locks. A gym bag with a lock, backpack with a lock or even a locking case will work for a handgun. You could even just put the locked container in the front seat. One can either put the handgun with the ammo/mags in the same container or plain sight(not advised at this time).

For long guns there is no requirement to lock, one can conceal, UOC whatever.

Now there is the school GFZ which for state requires handguns to be in some sort of locked container within 1000 feet of a school. Federal says long guns in a locked container or locking gun rack but i am unsure if the federal law is even enforceable.


edit: to answer the question yes.

cdtx2001
12-31-2009, 7:13 AM
My Knaack tool box in the bed of my truck works great for me.

bodger
12-31-2009, 7:29 AM
My Knaack tool box in the bed of my truck works great for me.


Same here. Two big hardened steel locks on it and it's also chained to my truck racks.

Cougar
12-31-2009, 8:56 AM
I would say yes....

In my opinion, they can be far more secure, far more difficult to get into than a gun rug with a zipper lock. And that area is clearly inaccessible to the occupants of a moving vehicle.

I would put it in the same category as a locked car trunk.

But, in a recent class taught by a LE person, on the grey area subject of "locked container" he specifically mentioned a pickup bed mounted tool box as being questionable. No supporting logic was given. Perhaps some of those tool boxes are relatively easy to break into?

GrizzlyGuy
12-31-2009, 9:08 AM
Does this lockable hard cover truck bed tonneau with the lock accessories qualify as an approved lock/locked container?

Truck bed tonneau hard cover - http://www.pace-edwards.com/fullmetal_jr.html


I'd say yes, that does meet the legal definition of a locked container in CA and federal laws.

However, the drama factor might be a bit higher in a LEO encounter. I suspect that some LEOs and/or DAs might (erroneously) think it doesn't qualify since it locks the entire bed vs. being a separate "container".

high_revs
12-31-2009, 10:03 AM
Yeah, that's what I was kinda thinking about (if you hit the wrong DA and FUD). Granted, it's a pickup truck and there is no access from the passenger seats while in the car, it deems to be OK. Isn't the point of a locked container really to isolate easy access for the passengers/driver? There's no provision that mandates its inaccessible by the public because you can put a pistol in a locked container in an open truck bed and still be legal, right? (I've not seen/read, that I recall, posts related to definition of locked container addressing public access). They questions and the law seem to address accessibility to the passengers/driver in the vehicle itself.

383green
12-31-2009, 10:57 AM
There is no such thing as CA approved locks or federal approved locks.

That's not entirely accurate. For the specific purposes of CA's requirement to purchase a lock with a firearm (notwithstanding the safe affidavit exemption for long guns), the lock is required to be a model specifically approved by CA DOJ, if I'm not mistaken. An identical lock with a different name, manufacturer, etc. which has not been approved is not acceptable for that buy-a-lock requirement. For other purposes like the OP's transport question, there's no requirement to use only approved locks, but still, there is such a thing as a CA approved firearm lock.

Here's the lock which came with my most recent rifle purchase. Note the "California DOJ Approved..." notice on the instructions that came with it.

http://www.nf6x.net/tmp/P1030769.jpg

OlderThanDirt
12-31-2009, 11:02 AM
I would say yes....

In my opinion, they can be far more secure, far more difficult to get into than a gun rug with a zipper lock. And that area is clearly inaccessible to the occupants of a moving vehicle.

I would put it in the same category as a locked car trunk.

But, in a recent class taught by a LE person, on the grey area subject of "locked container" he specifically mentioned a pickup bed mounted tool box as being questionable. No supporting logic was given. Perhaps some of those tool boxes are relatively easy to break into?

I've also had LE tell large groups of people that you can't own an AK47, AR15 or high capacity magazines.

383green
12-31-2009, 11:25 AM
I've also had LE tell large groups of people that you can't own an AK47, AR15 or high capacity magazines.

Then there's that famous video of a cop addressing a classroom full of kids, going on and on about how he's the only person in the room qualified to handle a gun, followed by an accidental discharge... :p

Glock22Fan
12-31-2009, 1:17 PM
Do not confuse locks such as cable locks (which disable the firearm but which do not enclose the firearm) with the lock on a "secure container."

The former has to be California compliant (when bought with a firearm), whereas there is no set law on the latter. Generally speaking, the definition of a "secure locked container" still has to be tested in court, until then it is your best assumption of what would pass the common sense concensus of a jury.

I would have thought that a truckbed toolbox, secured to the truck and locked with a lock (or two) that the average person could not open without serious tools would not cause any problems whatsoever. Clearly it should satisfy the Secure Locked Container rule, and there's nothing in law AFAIK to say that it cannot be secured outside the vehicle. Unless it is opened to reveal some questionable contents, you will be, I'm sure, good to go.

high_revs
12-31-2009, 1:26 PM
Do not confuse locks such as cable locks (which disable the firearm but which do not enclose the firearm) with the lock on a "secure container."


Yeah, you're right (after reading the responses). I was mixing up locks requirements with DROS process. Must've brain dead from skiing and riding the ski bus when posting this last night. sigh... :p CA approved locks term us usually referenced when one purchases firearms (safe for long guns).

So it seems my hunch is that it's good to go even though there's no such law as "approved locked containers" during transportation. If any and to be safe, we can further lock up the bags/cases anyway.

bodger
12-31-2009, 1:42 PM
Do not confuse locks such as cable locks (which disable the firearm but which do not enclose the firearm) with the lock on a "secure container."

The former has to be California compliant (when bought with a firearm), whereas there is no set law on the latter. Generally speaking, the definition of a "secure locked container" still has to be tested in court, until then it is your best assumption of what would pass the common sense concensus of a jury.

I would have thought that a truckbed toolbox, secured to the truck and locked with a lock (or two) that the average person could not open without serious tools would not cause any problems whatsoever. Clearly it should satisfy the Secure Locked Container rule, and there's nothing in law AFAIK to say that it cannot be secured outside the vehicle. Unless it is opened to reveal some questionable contents, you will be, I'm sure, good to go.


I sure as heck hope that a steel Knaack toolbox secured with two hardened steel locks and chained to the truck locked with another hardened lock would satisfy any definition of a locked container.

In any case, if I'm pulled over and there are guns in there, I'm not telling the LEO that they are in there, and I'm not opening the box so they can look.

I have yet to go through a border stop (or whatever you call it) when you're close to the Mexican border. I have to believe that they would want to look in that Knaack container. It's big enough to hold an illegal alien type person, or a sheeitload of drugs.

Neither of which I would be hauling, but I'll bet that tool can would draw some curiosity.

tombinghamthegreat
12-31-2009, 3:16 PM
For other purposes like the OP's transport question, there's no requirement to use only approved locks, but still, there is such a thing as a CA approved firearm lock.

I should have been more specific when i said that, for transportation there is not requirements to use required locks.