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makhshev
12-30-2009, 8:19 PM
I bought a gun from another cal gunner and the person at the gun shop saw he had brought a lock for the gun and all that. There was no case provided but the gun lock was. The gun shop person asked about a gun safe and I was curious what the law was:

Do I have to have a gun safe in order to buy a gun (never had the question asked before?

Don't I just need the gun lock the guy gave me or do I need to buy another one to meet the 30 day receipt period?

Thank you!

p.s. I do keep my in a safe, I had just never been asked that question when buying a hand gun. They always told me to buy a gun lock, which I do to be double safe with kids in the house. I wasn't for sure what the laws were, just too many of them.

K5Cruiser
12-30-2009, 8:50 PM
If it's a long gun you can simply tell them the name and model of your safe. If it's a handgun, or if you have no safe, then you must be able to provide a lock with a receipt from the last 30 days. Some dealers will let you slide on the receipt thing if you have the lock there, but it's suppose to be required.

383green
12-30-2009, 9:01 PM
I don't think a gun safe is required; having one (specifically, one which meets CA's requirements) exempts you from the need to buy a new gun lock when you buy a rifle, though, which is why a dealer would ask about that.

For handguns, you have to buy the silly gun lock even if you have a 2,000 pound safe bolted to the bedrock under your house and guarded by really mean dogs. Silly, but that's the law.

Even though a gun safe isn't required by law, I still think it's a good idea to have one if you can afford it. There are lots of other things that you can cram in one besides guns, such as important papers, jewelry, small keepsakes and other valuables. A fire-resistant gun safe is particularly nice to have in order to hopefully protect at least some of your valuables, papers and keepsakes if your home burns down.

turbosbox
12-30-2009, 11:02 PM
Well, the gun has to be either in a safe or have an CA DOJ approved lock on it. Last time I got one the FFL was a bit of a knucklehead, and wouldn't let me take it out of the store without a lock, which he didn't have. I asked him if it was in the box as my other purchases had one in there. "NOPE". So after I returned with a lock, he finds one in the box :mad:
I don't know if they can require this as if you said yes you have a safe, will that mean no lock before they hand it to you? I'm thinking let me use the included lock out of the box at least.
good luck.

kmca
12-31-2009, 8:26 AM
California law requires either an approved safe affidavit or a lock with receipt dated within the last 30 days. Federal law doesn't recognize a safe and requires a lock with no receipt. Now getting a gun store to understand that....that's another story.

Chris M
12-31-2009, 8:35 AM
Well, the gun has to be either in a safe or have an CA DOJ approved lock on it.

No one is required to store their firearms locked up in any form whatsoever. Just because they make you buy a lock, or fill out a safe affidavit, doesn't mean you have to use the lock, or store the gun in the safe.

ocspeedracer
12-31-2009, 8:38 AM
too many laws not enough guns says

GrizzlyGuy
12-31-2009, 8:41 AM
The laws are a lot more complicated than they need to be. Good info from Librarian here:

Gun Lock Flowchart (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3529778&postcount=5)

Gun Safes, Gun Locks, California and Federal Law (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=119219)

CDFingers
12-31-2009, 9:10 AM
The quotes about CA laws are correct afaik.

But it's always a good idea to store your guns in a gun safe to prevent theft--and there's always the fingerprint safe for under your bed, if that's your proclivity.

CDFingers

VW*Mike
12-31-2009, 6:01 PM
Gun safe is a must IMO. For the cheap ones at below $400 at Home Depot, they might not be fire proof, or completely secure from all but a professional locksmith, but for the average home break in, they thieves won't waste their time or risk detection due to the noise. They are heavy, but best bolted to the floor since a refrigerator dolly can move most fairly easily.

The gun lock thing pisses me off. I have a drawer full of them, I picked up a rifle a few months ago, and had to buy a lock for it. Was I supposed to not have one if I brought one or filled out a safe affidavit?

383green
12-31-2009, 6:18 PM
The gun lock thing pisses me off. I have a drawer full of them, I picked up a rifle a few months ago, and had to buy a lock for it. Was I supposed to not have one if I brought one or filled out a safe affidavit?

Bringing one with you wouldn't have helped unless you had a receipt showing it was purchased within the previous 30 days (and it would have to be a DOJ-approved one, too). But for rifles, you can avoid needing to do that if you already have a gun safe which meets CA's rather minimal technical requirements, and it doesn't need to be specifically approved by the DOJ. The safe affidavit form lets you specify the make and model of your safe (which I happen to remember) and/or state that it meets the necessary technical requirements (which are listed on the affidavit form, and my safe happens to exceed them by a large margin). You don't even need to show a receipt; you just check the right boxes, sign and initial the affidavit under penalty of perjury if you're lying and they catch you. I went through all of this just last Monday... and still drove home with another silly cable lock since one came with the rifle, anyway. :)

bg
12-31-2009, 10:22 PM
Why does a 30 day receipt have to be present and what in the Lords
name does that have to do with anything ? Do these locks for some
inexplicable reason suddenly stop working after 31 days ?

What the heck...

K5Cruiser
12-31-2009, 11:45 PM
Read the first post in this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=119219

Of course the requirement of "...no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm" is simply ridiculous, but that's how CA gun laws go.

Chris M
12-31-2009, 11:48 PM
Why does a 30 day receipt have to be present and what in the Lords
name does that have to do with anything ? Do these locks for some
inexplicable reason suddenly stop working after 31 days ?

What the heck...

Because they want to make sure you have a gunlock for each gun purchased. If they didn't require the less-than-30-day old receipt, what would prevent you from bringing the same lock in, time after time, for each one of your guns?

It's a dumb law that doesn't do anything, because hardly anyone will actually use the lock (your not required to use it - just purchase it) - especially if they have a safe.

Another dumb law is the 10 day waiting period. It's supposed to be a 'cooling off period' if I understand it correctly, in order to try to prevent 'murder in momentary rage' and suicide. Ok, I can kind of understand it if the person doesn't already own a gun...but what's the point of making someone wait if they already have a safe full of guns at home?

cbn620
01-01-2010, 12:10 AM
Gun safe is a must IMO. For the cheap ones at below $400 at Home Depot, they might not be fire proof, or completely secure from all but a professional locksmith, but for the average home break in, they thieves won't waste their time or risk detection due to the noise. They are heavy, but best bolted to the floor since a refrigerator dolly can move most fairly easily.

The gun lock thing pisses me off. I have a drawer full of them, I picked up a rifle a few months ago, and had to buy a lock for it. Was I supposed to not have one if I brought one or filled out a safe affidavit?

I wonder if my property baron would let me bolt mine to the floor. How much "damage" does such a thing do to the floor? It would be on a carpeted floor in my closet. I'm asking cause I don't know the process by which one would bolt these to the floor, the size bolts, the depth of the holes, or even if my floor has a solid enough surface to bolt to.

BTW, could I do this project myself or would I need to hire a pro?

Sorry! Super off topic, lots of questions. My bad.

ALSystems
01-01-2010, 1:26 AM
I wonder if my property baron would let me bolt mine to the floor. How much "damage" does such a thing do to the floor? It would be on a carpeted floor in my closet. I'm asking cause I don't know the process by which one would bolt these to the floor, the size bolts, the depth of the holes, or even if my floor has a solid enough surface to bolt to.

BTW, could I do this project myself or would I need to hire a pro?

Sorry! Super off topic, lots of questions. My bad.

You probably could do this yourself. The difficulty of attaching a bolt to the floor depends on what the floor beneath the carpet is made of. A wood floor (upper floors are typically 3/4" plywood on top of wooden floor joist which is vertical 2"x10" pieces of wood) could easily be predrilled and a bolt screwed into it which could be unscrewed later. A cement slab floor (typically about 4" thick) is a lot tougher to drill a hole in requiring a tungsten carbide drill bit. The bolt would be attached with epoxy glue and would have to be cut to be removed. The size of the bolt should match whatever hole is already predrilled in the bottom of the safe.

If you remove the safe, there would be small holes in the carpet where the bolts used to be and a compressed carpet the size of the safe. The property baron would probably think you had a heavy filing cabinet in the closet after a safe is removed.

Dwight K. Schrute
01-01-2010, 2:20 AM
Can you buy a gun lock and then return it for a refund after you've gotten your gun?

383green
01-01-2010, 9:11 AM
A cement slab floor (typically about 4" thick) is a lot tougher to drill a hole in requiring a tungsten carbide drill bit. The bolt would be attached with epoxy glue and would have to be cut to be removed. The size of the bolt should match whatever hole is already predrilled in the bottom of the safe.


My safe weighs about 2,000 pounds, so it's not practical to set it down on top of bolts set into the concrete slab, nor to lift it up off the bolts later. Here's what I learned from the guy who delivered and installed it in my garage:

We positioned the safe first, and then he drilled the concrete slab through the holes in the safe bottom. That's much easier than trying to get the holes in the right places before positioning the safe, and then lining the safe up with them.

Using a hammer drill with a concrete bit, he drilled all the way through the slab until dirt from below it was coming up through that hole. That way, when it comes time to move the safe later, the bolts can be hammered down into the dirt rather than trying to lift the safe off of them.

The bolts were wedge-type concrete anchor bolts, set in without epoxy.

That safe install was at my old house, and being able to hammer those bolts down into the dirt to move the safe definitely made my life easier!

Librarian
01-01-2010, 10:13 AM
Can you buy a gun lock and then return it for a refund after you've gotten your gun?

Yep.

The requirement is on the dealer - he can't deliver the gun without the safety device.

But nothing in the law says one has to keep the lock, or use it if one keeps it.

johnthomas
01-01-2010, 10:27 AM
Can you buy a gun lock and then return it for a refund after you've gotten your gun?

Well, if the law say's you need a new lock at the time purchase, then you have met your legal responsibilty. The only problem would be if the store has a no return policy. I would wait a couple of days.