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View Full Version : Modest Proposal: Calguns Gun Buyback


Mitch
12-30-2009, 11:41 AM
Just thinking out loud, and starting a new thread to explore an idea many of you have already been noodling with.

At the San Diego gun buy-back recently, there were some Calguns members picketing the event and they got a bit of news coverage. The messages on the signs were to the effect that at $50 per gun, most of the people selling their guns were being ripped off.

Now, what if at the next gun buy-back, there was an FFL set up across the street who was willing to pay a few dollars below market price for any gun prsesented to him, and who was also prepared to quickly handle the transaction all legal and nice?

How it would work (at the outset):

o A CGF fund is set up for the purchase of guns at the gun buy-back.

o A friendly local FFL volunteers to make and process the purchases on the spot using the CGF money.

o Additional Calguns members are on hand to make spot pricing estimates and to provide security.

o If a gun is deemed not to be worth more than the gun buy-back price, the seller is cheerfully referred across the street.

o The purchased guns are later marketed by the FFL, and profits returned to CGF.

o Press goes OUT OF THEIR MINDS.

Other possibilities include the FFL somehow accepting the guns on consignment (which would net the seller more money, but wouldn't be as clean a break for the seller who just wants to get rid of his guns); of the FFL transferring the guns to CGF itself or some other entity representing CGF (with all necessary legal paperwork, of course).

This is of course all done with the cooperation of the local PD, who, if they can't actually prohibit it, will certainly want to get themselves involved to make sure everything runs smoothly. And most PDs have a Calguns members in them anyway.

Question that remains (for me) is are there restrictions concerning where an FFL can carry out his business? I'm sure there are, but how is it that FFLs can legally do business off-site at a gun show?

Security is an issue, too, since the FFL would be accepting and transporting multiple firearms in plain site of the public.

Dark Paladin
12-30-2009, 11:48 AM
Don't forget you'll also need to figure out how to get pass the GFSZ crap. Since recent buybacks usually take place in these areas, how much you want to bet the school admin isn't inclined to give you permission to run something like this?

Nodda Duma
12-30-2009, 12:41 PM
Better yet, just find a dealer or group of dealers who are willing to heavily advertise a "Fair Price Buyback" at his/their store. It doesn't have to coincide with a police gun buy back, and it can be done at his shop. He pays a decent price for the turned-in firearms, then resells them for a tidy profit. Coordinate with local LE to turn over stolen firearms for return to the rightful owners.

Advertise it far enough in advance that word gets out. Something to the effect of "the police buybacks rip you off. come to the Calguns Buyback for a fair shake".

Avoid all the complications of competing with a police buyback.

-Jason

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 1:13 PM
The whole point is to compete with a police buyback. Certain demographics are going to the police buybacks, those are the ones we want to be thinking twice about their decisions.

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 1:15 PM
The whole point is to compete with a police buyback. Certain demographics are going to the police buybacks, those are the ones we want to be thinking twice about their decisions.

I'm working on this idea!

bodger
12-30-2009, 1:15 PM
I like this idea. But what could really kill it is if one of the guns that got bought, and then re-sold, (all legally properly DROS'd of course) was subsequently involved in a crime of any kind.

The antis would be all over it. And the municipalities would be screaming that if it weren't for the "CalGuns Buyback, that weapon would have been off the street and destroyed by LEO.

Maybe a long shot that it would happen, but if it did, not good press for CG.

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 1:24 PM
But that's the same argument you could make for any gun sold!! Oh Noes! If this gun wasn't purchased then no crime would have been committed!

bodger
12-30-2009, 1:41 PM
But that's the same argument you could make for any gun sold!! Oh Noes! If this gun wasn't purchased then no crime would have been committed!



That's true. And the antis have it on their agenda to eradicate our ability to buy any gun in any way.

I'm just saying, the antis would shine as strong a light as they could on any gun that was saved from a buy-back and sold and used in a crime, which could happen. Or a suicide. And that light would hit CalGuns in the process if the purchase of a gun otherwise destined for a buyback was sponsored by CG as was suggested.

I'm not naysaying, I think anything that saves a good gun from the smelter and keeps cops out enforcing laws instead of being gun nannies is a good thing.
But I also think a CG sponsored "save guns from being destroyed by police" has its risks.

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 1:49 PM
Then again, how would they even know? The serial numbers wouldn't be public knowledge, especially since they never touch the PD hands.

wildhawker
12-30-2009, 1:53 PM
Bodger, you're telling me that free advertising for a pro-gun group would be a negative outcome?

I've been working on a buyback scheme for just under a year; I think it might be ready for 2010. I'd appreciate discretion by those of you who know the details until I have a few gray areas worked through.

SeanCasey
12-30-2009, 1:55 PM
I agree with what bodger is saying. It is a GREAT idea, but there are risks that might be greater than the reward, and there are major risks involved in what is essentially a media war. We just need to be sure we fight the right battles. But if it can be made to work and the risks mininalized then I think it would be a good thing, even if all it does is get the anti-gunner's panties in a wad.

sfwdiy
12-30-2009, 1:58 PM
But that's the same argument you could make for any gun sold!! Oh Noes! If this gun wasn't purchased then no crime would have been committed!

:willy_nilly:

+1. I don't see how anyone would be able to follow up on something like that.

I think that it would be a great idea to directly compete with a police buyback though. Even if there's no FFL to actually purchase firearms on the spot, set up a booth with a big sign, have a representative from the local participating FFL there, do appraisals on the spot and tell people to head to the FFL to sell their gun at the appraised price. That would avoid any school zone BS.

--B

Bill Carson
12-30-2009, 2:17 PM
I wonder what percentage of the guns collected in the buy back program could be legally resold in California ? I know I have two handguns that I cannot legally sell in California to a private party. Does that mean that I cannot sell them to a in-state or out of state FFL ?

bodger
12-30-2009, 2:21 PM
Bodger, you're telling me that free advertising for a pro-gun group would be a negative outcome?



Nope, not at all, if that's what this would be, I support anything that furthers a pro-gun group.

What I am saying, and maybe it is a far-fetched possibility, that if a gun that was destined for, or could be portrayed as having been destined for, a police gun buy-back, was brought to a a CalGuns sponsored buy-back instead, and was subsequently legally sold and then involved in a crime, it could be an undesired blow-back, directly to CalGuns.

Yes, it could happen at any FFL that sells guns too. But that's an FFL, not a pro-gun group with 40,000 plus members.

LEO traces the history and ownership of any gun involved in a crime, do they not?
And if a firearm passes through CalGuns in any manner especially in lieu of a police buy-back, and is subsequently re-sold and then used in a crime, and this information is obtained by an anti-gun entity, it seems as though this could be a detriment to CalGuns. And could be used by the antis to paint all Pro 2A folks with the same broad brush of negativism. Not just one gun shop owner.

Is this a possible scenario in the first place? And if possible, are the odds of the aforementioned blow-back so slim it doesn't warrant consideration?

I'm just asking. If the Right People are on board with this, I will stipulate that more informed minds than my own are involved.
And I'm all for saving guns from the shredder.

bodger
12-30-2009, 2:25 PM
:willy_nilly:

+1. I don't see how anyone would be able to follow up on something like that.

I think that it would be a great idea to directly compete with a police buyback though. Even if there's no FFL to actually purchase firearms on the spot, set up a booth with a big sign, have a representative from the local participating FFL there, do appraisals on the spot and tell people to head to the FFL to sell their gun at the appraised price. That would avoid any school zone BS.

--B


sfwdiy, by follow up, do you mean how a gun involved in a crime could be traced and its previous ownership documented?

My considerations were primarily directed at this, as far as CG being involved:

o A CGF fund is set up for the purchase of guns at the gun buy-back.

o A friendly local FFL volunteers to make and process the purchases on the spot using the CGF money.

JDoe
12-30-2009, 2:26 PM
A Calguns or Joe Blow Buy Back is a good idea. It might give some anti's even higher blood pressure and is just one more thing for them to spend their savings on.

Buy backs or advertising for the same could be set up right next to the official buy backs, transfers could be done outside of the school zones, through a FFL and etc. A professional looking sign manned by people dressed in business casual (Calguns Polo shirts?) would give the unofficial buy back a better look and may provide a lot more comfort to prospective sellers who might be intimidated by a bunch of guys shouting and holding up home made signs.

With a little work a technically savvy Calgunner could setup a live video feed and we could have Calgunners and other interested parties (from across the U.S.?) bidding on firearms brought to the buy back. Who knows how much someone in Nebraska would pay for an exact copy of their favorite .22 single shot from their childhood, etc.

In addition to drawing guns away from the ordinary gun buy backs a number of ads could be constantly run in various free ad locations.

wildhawker
12-30-2009, 2:28 PM
Keep in mind one thing; I think it's safe to say that neither CGN or CGF would risk exposure in such a scheme. Anything that's done will be of my own doing and/or through a separate organization with little to lose.


-Brandon

Nope, not at all, if that's what this would be, I support anything that furthers a pro-gun group.

What I am saying, and maybe it is a far-fetched possibility, that if a gun that was destined for, or could be portrayed as having been destined for, a police gun buy-back, was brought to a a CalGuns sponsored buy-back instead, and was subsequently legally sold and then involved in a crime, it could be an undesired blow-back, directly to CalGuns.

Yes, it could happen at any FFL that sells guns too. But that's an FFL, not a pro-gun group with 40,000 plus members.

LEO traces the history and ownership of any gun involved in a crime, do they not?
And if a firearm passes through CalGuns in any manner especially in lieu of a police buy-back, and is subsequently re-sold and then used in a crime, and this information is obtained by an anti-gun entity, it seems as though this could be a detriment to CalGuns. And could be used by the antis to paint all Pro 2A folks with the same broad brush of negativism. Not just one gun shop owner.

Is this a possible scenario in the first place? And if possible, are the odds of the aforementioned blow-back so slim it doesn't warrant consideration?

I'm just asking. If the Right People are on board with this, I will stipulate that more informed minds than my own are involved.
And I'm all for saving guns from the shredder.

bodger
12-30-2009, 2:40 PM
Okay, THAT I think is a damn fine idea. And something I would participate in myself.

This is what raised my concern and questions, and would surprise me if it happened:

o A CGF fund is set up for the purchase of guns at the gun buy-back.

o A friendly local FFL volunteers to make and process the purchases on the spot using the CGF money.


Keep in mind one thing; I think it's safe to say that neither CGN or CGF would risk exposure in such a scheme. Anything that's done will be of my own doing and/or through a separate organization with little to lose.


-Brandon

Flopper
12-30-2009, 2:40 PM
I wonder what percentage of the guns collected in the buy back program could be legally resold in California ? I know I have two handguns that I cannot legally sell in California to a private party. Does that mean that I cannot sell them to a in-state or out of state FFL ?

A handgun you can't legally PPT in CA??

Unless they're RAW's or Title II handguns, I'm pretty sure ANY handgun can be PPT'd in CA.

formula502
12-30-2009, 2:55 PM
I was watching & enjoying the SD buyback thread last week.

It occurred to me that a good public explanation for our motivation would be to draw an analogy to classic cars that get crushed in the name of clean air. This could really resonate with the "Cash for Clunkers" program in everyone's recent memory.

"This is just like watching someone unknowingly have a prized classic car crushed in exchange for a token amount of money. The car would be just as much 'off-the-road' if the owner was paid fair value by a collector who would pamper it.

These guns are just just as much 'off-the-street' if a collector or marksman pays fair value and places them in their safe.

It's just a shame to see people essentially taken advantage of by this program. Imagine a 1957 Chevy being crushed for a few hundred dollars.

Of course if they have any doubts as to the history or legality of a gun, they should by all means hand it over to the authorities. But classic family heirlooms need not be exchanged for a few dollars simply because someone is in need."

Meplat
12-30-2009, 2:57 PM
The problem I see is that CGF or any other private organization cannot offer immunity or anonymity. Beyond that it would only take a small percentage of high dollar stolen pieces to make the enterprise financially unworkable.

bodger
12-30-2009, 3:02 PM
I saw a news report about Cash For Clumkers and they were interviewing a dealer.

He was lamenting how awful he felt when performing the required seizing of the engine on the clunkers he took in.

Some of the cars were in decent shape and would have made good transportation for someone. I was watching & enjoying the SD buyback thread last week.

It occurred to me that a good public explanation for our motivation would be to draw an analogy to classic cars that get crushed in the name of clean air. This could really resonate with the "Cash for Clunkers" program in everyone's recent memory.

"This is just like watching someone unknowingly have a prized classic car crushed in exchange for a token amount of money. The car would be just as much 'off-the-road' if the owner was paid fair value by a collector who would pamper it.

These guns are just just as much 'off-the-street' if a collector or marksman pays fair value and places them in their safe.

It's just a shame to see people essentially taken advantage of by this program. Imagine a 1957 Chevy being crushed for a few hundred dollars.

Of course if they have any doubts as to the history or legality of a gun, they should by all means hand it over to the authorities. But classic family heirlooms need not be exchanged for a few dollars simply because someone is in need."

Maltese Falcon
12-30-2009, 3:11 PM
The problem I see is that CGF or any other private organization cannot offer immunity or anonymity.

Yep, that is the real big deal killer right there. I'm sure lots of these people would never show up if an ID is requested.

.

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 3:19 PM
But a lot, probably most, of the people involved wouldn't care. Many are just elderly people with a deceased spouses old guns. Don't know about them and don't care. I still think they should be advised to keep one good handgun in the house for self defense too. Maybe one can be provided in trade.

six10
12-30-2009, 3:20 PM
What about this:

Set up a table/booth* based upon the "Antiques Roadshow" model: give honest appraisals, let people know the history of their particular model gun (if possible), let people know where, locally, they can legally (and more profitably) "dispose" of their unwanted firearms, and utilize the opportunity to tell them about CGF. Make it fun and informative, just like the TV show. Visibility without liability.

Setting it up to appear in any way adversarial to a PD-sponsored program would not be good business, nor wise, and might well reinforce "anti-gun" people's views of gun owners/2A defenders as "a bit off".


* A permit would probably be required, but if handled diplomatically might not present much of a hurdle

bodger
12-30-2009, 3:28 PM
It sounds like Wildhawker has got something cooking. Which will probably be beneficial to all (except the antis :D) and a good thing for 2A proponents.What about this:

Set up a table/booth* based upon the "Antiques Roadshow" model: give honest appraisals, let people know the history of their particular model gun (if possible), let people know where, locally, they can legally (and more profitably) "dispose" of their unwanted firearms, and utilize the opportunity to tell them about CGF. Make it fun and informative, just like the TV show. Visibility without liability.

Setting it up to appear in any way adversarial to a PD-sponsored program would not be good business, nor wise, and might well reinforce "anti-gun" people's views of gun owners/2A defenders as "a bit off".


* A permit would probably be required, but if handled diplomatically might not present much of a hurdle

hoffmang
12-30-2009, 3:32 PM
I wonder what percentage of the guns collected in the buy back program could be legally resold in California ? I know I have two handguns that I cannot legally sell in California to a private party. Does that mean that I cannot sell them to a in-state or out of state FFL ?

Bill: The Roster does not apply to sales between private parties inside California. You are correct that if an FFL gets involved then the Roster would apply.

My only concern about institutionalizing buybacks is what happens when the institution buys a firearm that turns out to have already been stolen or used in a crime.

-Gene

six10
12-30-2009, 3:50 PM
My only concern about institutionalizing buybacks is what happens when the institution buys a firearm that turns out to have already been stolen or used in a crime.
That's why CGF shouldn't get into the actual buyback. But some serious networking with licensed firearms dealers in every community where these PD buybacks occur would enable CGF to provide a free service (the "Roadshow" bit) to those communities without in any way being tied to where the guns went after 'appraisal'. Seems like a great way for calgunners/dealers to volunteer their expertise and promote CGF in a positive way. jmho.

G-Man WC
12-30-2009, 3:54 PM
My only concern about institutionalizing buybacks is what happens when the institution buys a firearm that turns out to have already been stolen or used in a crime.
-Gene
This I would tend to agree with you Gene. This is a void in that I would not cross. My major complaint against PD's taking in weapons and disposing of them without checking background for being stolen and destroying evidence in what could be more hanus crimes. It's a win-win for the bad guys who don't follow the rules and are now being rewarded?
Ban the buybacks not the gun shows. -g

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 3:58 PM
This I would tend to agree with you Gene. This is a void in that I would not cross. My major complaint against PD's taking in weapons and disposing of them without checking background for being stolen and destroying evidence in what could be more hanus crimes. It's a win-win for the bad guys who don't follow the rules and are now being rewarded?
Ban the buybacks not the gun shows. -g

That is why we need someone with access to run serials, like a cop. Its not like they already don't do it willy-nilly to anyone they meet, we just gotta find one sympathetic to "the cause" to make sure we are this side of legal. It shouldn't be all that hard.

Mitch
12-30-2009, 3:58 PM
The whole point is to compete with a police buyback. Certain demographics are going to the police buybacks, those are the ones we want to be thinking twice about their decisions.

Not to mention the positive publicity for CGF and Calguns.

shooting4life
12-30-2009, 4:01 PM
Try and make sure the off list guns go on consignment and not just sold to the ffl so they can stay in the state if possible.

Mitch
12-30-2009, 4:06 PM
Yep, that is the real big deal killer right there. I'm sure lots of these people would never show up if an ID is requested.

Who cares about them? I mean it: WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? Most of them are probably criminals anyway. Let the cops take their guns.

Some of the stuff you guys worry about just amazes me.

The point is, there will be an alternative to the buy-back for those who wish to take advantage of it. And great press for whoever organizes it.

Another alternative to an FFL right on site: a table with skilled and experience appraisers who appraise a firearm on-site, and fill out a certificate with a guaranteed price the seller will get for the gun if he takes it to a participating FFL.

bodger
12-30-2009, 4:06 PM
Bill: The Roster does not apply to sales between private parties inside California. You are correct that if an FFL gets involved then the Roster would apply.

My only concern about institutionalizing buybacks is what happens when the institution buys a firearm that turns out to have already been stolen or used in a crime.

-Gene

Exactly the point I was making previously. CG connected to a tainted firearm.

Either already having been used in a crime, or subsequently used in a crime, could result in bad blowback.

But, doing an end run around these absurd anti-gun LEO buy-backs and saving guns, that I think is a damn fine endeavor.

Mitch
12-30-2009, 4:11 PM
My only concern about institutionalizing buybacks is what happens when the institution buys a firearm that turns out to have already been stolen or used in a crime.

What happens in any case? Serious question.

This is no different from any other FFL buying a gun from anyone coming in off the street.

So what happens?

FastFinger
12-30-2009, 5:36 PM
Depending on the details I think this could be an great idea.

We need methods to publicize our existence and concerns; high visibility activities that for one reason or another draw the media spotlight. With all due respect I don't mean beach clean ups, cookie sales, or walkathons (unless done with a unique angle).

This type of "Buy Back" might be outrageous enough to rate TV coverage, which done correctly is what we need.

Considering that the MSM is heavily biased against us, a simple do good event is one they will ignore. It will need an element of outrageousness - a hook so controversial/unusual/offensive/funny/odd that they can't help but cover it.

Needless to say any such event must be very carefully thought out a tightly controlled. I don't know if a BB will fit the bill, but it certainly deserves to be considered.

I'd like to see an event that somehow appeals to younger people. They still haven't been fully brainwashed by decades of biased MSM dogma. They still enjoy a new challenge - loud noises and against the grain thinking.

The black guy with the AR at the political rally managed to grab a whole bunch of airtime, on balance I don't know if the public reaction was more positive or negative, but there's no denying his message was heard by many people who otherwise had no idea that a responsible citizen is free to exercise his 2nd amendment rights in that setting. Not saying that was the ideal event, but it shows that it doesn't take much to stir the pot. We need to stir it more while making certain we know how it's going to taste to John Q. On The Fence Public.

Youth, females, minorities, males, majorities, we need to just get our message in front of them. This site is a great start, now we need to co-op the media into publicizing us.

Maltese Falcon
12-30-2009, 6:01 PM
Who cares about them? I mean it: WHO CARES ABOUT THEM? Most of them are probably criminals anyway. Let the cops take their guns.

Some of the stuff you guys worry about just amazes me.

The point is, there will be an alternative to the buy-back for those who wish to take advantage of it. And great press for whoever organizes it.

Another alternative to an FFL right on site: a table with skilled and experience appraisers who appraise a firearm on-site, and fill out a certificate with a guaranteed price the seller will get for the gun if he takes it to a participating FFL.

Perhaps my comment could have been better worded. I think a large majority are in fact good decent folk...but they have an old firearm laying around and want to get rid of it. Anonymity is a big draw as they don't want any hassles or issues...just here it is, give me the gift card.

Has anyone actually been to one of these from start to end to see and gauge the people participating?

I think the appraisal idea is much better...cleaner and would appear more responsible to the lay public.

.

Meplat
12-30-2009, 6:05 PM
A lot of dealers will take PPT's on consignment. They will put them on display for you but the sale is between you and the buyer.
Bill: The Roster does not apply to sales between private parties inside California. You are correct that if an FFL gets involved then the Roster would apply.



My only concern about institutionalizing buybacks is what happens when the institution buys a firearm that turns out to have already been stolen or used in a crime.

-Gene

That is where it could get dicey and pricy for sure.

VW*Mike
12-30-2009, 7:29 PM
It could be a huge money loser IMO. Most of the people that take advantage of these things I think turn in guns that are stolen, not purchased the right way through an FFL etc., in terrible condition, evidence in a crime. It IMO would be alot of money to risk putting out for not much return other then a publicity stunt.

I would rather see us push the agencies to allow the piles to be sifted through for firearms that are historically significant. Like M1s, AK47, M16, 1911's, all have a valuable history behind them and should be preserved! We do not need to scrap any historically significant artifacts. That would be a terrible crime like burning an old book, painting or furniture!

Bill Carson
12-30-2009, 7:46 PM
thanks for the info. I have a Model 469 S&W 9mm 12+1 that I bought in 1985 that is not on the roster and a Glock 21 with an ambidextrious magazine release that was accidently sold to me in 2008 by a gun store that is not on the roster but I have no interest in selling/turning in either.

tombinghamthegreat
12-30-2009, 8:17 PM
This should be done by individuals only to save valuable guns from being melted down. I do not see the point to save a bunch of worthless .22 handguns no one wants.

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 8:29 PM
It could be a huge money loser IMO. Most of the people that take advantage of these things I think turn in guns that are stolen, not purchased the right way through an FFL etc., in terrible condition, evidence in a crime. It IMO would be alot of money to risk putting out for not much return other then a publicity stunt.

I would rather see us push the agencies to allow the piles to be sifted through for firearms that are historically significant. Like M1s, AK47, M16, 1911's, all have a valuable history behind them and should be preserved! We do not need to scrap any historically significant artifacts. That would be a terrible crime like burning an old book, painting or furniture!

This is generally incorrect. The guns I saw at the one down here were grandpa's duck guns and .22 rifles. But, that is why we somehow get someone with the ability to run serials for us.

turbosbox
12-30-2009, 9:11 PM
It seems right that calguns doesn't fund into a buyback.

I was thinking more along the lines that others said including six10. An appraisal table, with a tied in buyback there or closeby.
As stated funding for expensive firearms or having some purchased that were discovered stolen would be a big loss. Also who has the money to tie up in them until they are sold at book value?
How about something like a "California Firearms Foundation" or something new club to appraise them pay a bit more than the local PD for any decent firearms, a flat rate, then gunbroker them off with proceeds going to a good charity or two, mmmm split with CGF and some other good charity? This way it is presented as a win win for the donors. They get more for their firearm, it isn't trashed, and any value isn't wasted, that goes to charity.
There would much less capitol tied up in something like this, and the appraisers could kindly thank folks with junk for bringing it in, like on the roadshow, and pass them on to the PD to get their $. While saving the ones we don't want to see scrapped.

CABilly
12-30-2009, 9:23 PM
I think this would be really cool:

Offer X ammount more than the cops across the street, or a fair trade-in value or whatever for "YOUR LEGALLY OWNED GUNS". Smarter, and slightly less lazy, people would cross the street and get more money.

The ones who don't, you can assume are turning in guns which are not legally owned. Film the whole thing, question the people why they would elect to get less money from the cops, etc. Use the footage at the next local government meeting and demand answers.

RP1911
12-30-2009, 9:51 PM
It seems right that calguns doesn't fund into a buyback.

I was thinking more along the lines that others said including six10. An appraisal table, with a tied in buyback there or closeby.
As stated funding for expensive firearms or having some purchased that were discovered stolen would be a big loss. Also who has the money to tie up in them until they are sold at book value?
How about something like a "California Firearms Foundation" or something new club to appraise them pay a bit more than the local PD for any decent firearms, a flat rate, then gunbroker them off with proceeds going to a good charity or two, mmmm split with CGF and some other good charity? This way it is presented as a win win for the donors. They get more for their firearm, it isn't trashed, and any value isn't wasted, that goes to charity.
There would much less capitol tied up in something like this, and the appraisers could kindly thank folks with junk for bringing it in, like on the roadshow, and pass them on to the PD to get their $. While saving the ones we don't want to see scrapped.


Split the money between CGF and Victims of crime in the area that the gun buyback is happening

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 10:23 PM
It seems right that calguns doesn't fund into a buyback.

I was thinking more along the lines that others said including six10. An appraisal table, with a tied in buyback there or closeby.
As stated funding for expensive firearms or having some purchased that were discovered stolen would be a big loss. Also who has the money to tie up in them until they are sold at book value?
How about something like a "California Firearms Foundation" or something new club to appraise them pay a bit more than the local PD for any decent firearms, a flat rate, then gunbroker them off with proceeds going to a good charity or two, mmmm split with CGF and some other good charity? This way it is presented as a win win for the donors. They get more for their firearm, it isn't trashed, and any value isn't wasted, that goes to charity.
There would much less capitol tied up in something like this, and the appraisers could kindly thank folks with junk for bringing it in, like on the roadshow, and pass them on to the PD to get their $. While saving the ones we don't want to see scrapped.


I got access to cash.

wildhawker
12-30-2009, 10:32 PM
yYcgbm3JVkk

I got access to cash.

obeygiant
12-30-2009, 10:42 PM
:rofl2: IBTL

socal2310
12-30-2009, 10:56 PM
Most of the people that take advantage of these things I think turn in guns that are stolen, not purchased the right way through an FFL etc., in terrible condition, evidence in a crime.

Baloney. Let's give a thought to the mindset of a typical career criminal:

Repeat offender and well known to many cops.

Their associates who have not been caught are also typically well known to cops.

The majority are on probation or parole.

A significant number of them are constantly under suspicion of involvement in one crime or another and many will have misdemeanor or felony warrants out.

Now take this person and ask him to attend a gun buyback:

IF (and a really big IF) the criminal who has been lied to by cops during previous encounters actually believes that there will be no background check, he still must subject himself personally or by proxy (his clean confederate) to considerable police scrutiny.

Criminals get caught because they do stupid things, but few are reliably utterly devoid of a desire to avoid getting caught.

I would bet good money that the majority of weapons are those that have been sitting in an attic and were discovered by someone who says, "What am I supposed to do with these?" and then happens to hear about a gun buyback program.

Ryan

steadyrock
12-30-2009, 11:14 PM
It seems right that calguns doesn't fund into a buyback.

I was thinking more along the lines that others said including six10. An appraisal table, with a tied in buyback there or closeby.
As stated funding for expensive firearms or having some purchased that were discovered stolen would be a big loss. Also who has the money to tie up in them until they are sold at book value?
How about something like a "California Firearms Foundation" or something new club to appraise them pay a bit more than the local PD for any decent firearms, a flat rate, then gunbroker them off with proceeds going to a good charity or two, mmmm split with CGF and some other good charity? This way it is presented as a win win for the donors. They get more for their firearm, it isn't trashed, and any value isn't wasted, that goes to charity.
There would much less capitol tied up in something like this, and the appraisers could kindly thank folks with junk for bringing it in, like on the roadshow, and pass them on to the PD to get their $. While saving the ones we don't want to see scrapped.

I also really like the appraisal table, but with a twist inspired by this post: Instead of having the guns appraised and then taking them to a participating FFL for a guaranteed buyback rate, why not simply have them appraised and then *donating* them to a 501(c)(3) nonprofit foundation for a healthy tax write-off of the full market value? CGF receives them as donated property and writes a receipt for tax purposes, then re-sells the guns on CGN or Gunbroker to raise funds. Much like the car donation organizations, except with guns. This way no capital is tied up, the gun owner gets a nice healthy deduction to put a smile on their face, and CGF gets to benefit from the market value of these guns.

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 11:36 PM
I got access to cash.
yYcgbm3JVkk

Wow, you really went there....

ldivinag
12-31-2009, 6:23 AM
one thing to scare people away?

no "NO QUESTIONS ASKED" guarantee...

bodger
12-31-2009, 6:30 AM
Baloney. Let's give a thought to the mindset of a typical career criminal:

Repeat offender and well known to many cops.

Their associates who have not been caught are also typically well known to cops.

The majority are on probation or parole.

A significant number of them are constantly under suspicion of involvement in one crime or another and many will have misdemeanor or felony warrants out.

Now take this person and ask him to attend a gun buyback:

IF (and a really big IF) the criminal who has been lied to by cops during previous encounters actually believes that there will be no background check, he still must subject himself personally or by proxy (his clean confederate) to considerable police scrutiny.

Criminals get caught because they do stupid things, but few are reliably utterly devoid of a desire to avoid getting caught.

I would bet good money that the majority of weapons are those that have been sitting in an attic and were discovered by someone who says, "What am I supposed to do with these?" and then happens to hear about a gun buyback program.

Ryan

Which is exactly why these buybacks don't accomplish what their sponsors tout as "getting guns off the street".
They aren't on the street to begin with, and the ones that are on the street and in the hands of criminals aren't going to show up in the parking lot of a church with twenty cops standing around. It's ludicrous.

"Hey officer! I'm a felon and I have an AK47 I'd like to give you for a Ralph's gift certificate!"

Fuggeddaboutit. :D

Mitch
12-31-2009, 7:48 AM
What makes anyone think a FFL will give anymore than the cops. FFL's are notroius for giving $50 to $100 for nice guns. Give your grandmother your best gun and send her into your local FFL. I bet she walks out with $150 max.

I know exactly what you mean, but this is why I suggested a CGF or Calguns-sponsored event. Normally an FFL will give you pennies on the dollar when purchasing, but in this case the Calguns-affiliated FFL will agree to pay closer to the fair market value.

This is also why I suggested using CGF funds (or some other collective fund) to buy the guns, because normally an FFL couldn't afford to pay market price for guns if he expected to sell them.

Mitch
12-31-2009, 7:53 AM
I also really like the appraisal table, but with a twist inspired by this post: Instead of having the guns appraised and then taking them to a participating FFL for a guaranteed buyback rate, why not simply have them appraised and then *donating* them to a 501(c)(3) nonprofit foundation for a healthy tax write-off of the full market value?

Because something tells me most of the people who participate in these things aren't really all that worried about what they pay in income taxes.

They are there for the cash.

steadyrock
12-31-2009, 10:04 AM
Because something tells me most of the people who participate in these things aren't really all that worried about what they pay in income taxes.

They are there for the cash.

Hm, maybe. It's all moot anyway, as Brandon has already stated that neither CGF nor CGN are interested in risking exposure in something like this. Just fun to noodle around in the brain a bit.