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treelogger
12-10-2005, 9:52 PM
We have all been following the CaLeLo discussion and excitement here. In one of those threads, someone said something along the lines that without the CaLeLo importation there are no California-legal semi-auto rifles.

This made me think: What non-AW semi-auto rifles are available in California (and by non-AW I mean to exclude the various CaliFALs, unlisted AR15 lowers and such)? Here's the list of all the ones I can think of:

Browning BAR - in a variety of Calibers from .243 to .30x, unfortunately not in .223.
Benelli R1 - in a small selection of calibers around .27x through .30x.
Remington 7400 - similar set of calibers as the Browning, .243 through .30x.
Keltec SU-16 in .223 - but has a reputation for being not a great rifle (both accuracy, build quality, and reliability wise).
Ruger Mini-14 in .223 and Mini-30 in 7.62x39 - reputation for being massively inaccurate, unless you spend a lot of time rebuilding them.
Soon (or now?) the Volquartsen evolution in .223 - supposedly very accurate, but a heavy benchrest rifle.
A variety of SKS - about which I know little.

What did I miss?

So as far as I can see, the only thing we can't get yet is a lightweight but accurate high-quality semi-auto .223 rifle - you have to build that yourself out of a Mini-14 (which is a tough starting point). We get a good variety of hunting rifles, but those have very low mag capacities. Is my analysis correct?

Kestryll
12-10-2005, 9:57 PM
Ruger Mini-14 in .223 and Mini-30 in .308 - reputation for being massively inaccurate, unless you spend a lot of time rebuilding them.

The Mini-30 is 7.62x39, the same round as the SKS or the AK-47 variants.
The .308 is a variant of the 7.62x51.

czp01
12-10-2005, 10:14 PM
How could you forget the M1A!!!!!:p

Librarian
12-10-2005, 10:15 PM
The various M1A types, with 10-round magazines and California-legal muzzle brakes. (Ah! czp01 beat me by 1 minute!)

wuhungsix
12-10-2005, 10:43 PM
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Ruger PC9 and PC40


a crap load of ruger, marlin, browning, remington .22 lr rifles

BTW...su-16 are great LIGHT weight and portable .223 rifles...just dont use it as a club...if you want to swing a rifle at a BG then use the SKS

Ratters
12-10-2005, 11:06 PM
1919 belt feds are cal legal.

PanzerAce
12-10-2005, 11:59 PM
I remember there was some question actually as to whether or not a M2 semi would be cali legal. Not sure what the end result of that was though.

Veritas_223
12-11-2005, 1:10 AM
FN Rifle model 1949 aka FN49. Various calibers

http://www.adamsguns.com/fn49.htm

Samozaryadnaya Vintovka Tokareva aka Tokerev (SVT-40) and SVT38. in 7.62x54r

http://www.surplusrifle.com/svt40/index.asp

The mighty Hakim in 8mm

http://www.surplusrifle.com/hakim/index.asp

The Hakims Cousin, the Rasheed in 7.62x39

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasheed_Carbine

The Swede AG-42 in 6.5x55 Swede

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AG-42

The Czech VZ52 or CZ52 rifle in 7.62x45 or 7.62x39

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ-52_Rifle

Johnson M1941 in.30-06 Springfield

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_M1941_Rifle

Gewehr 43Karabiner 43 (G43, K43; Gew 43, Kar 43) in 8MM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_43

ivanimal
12-11-2005, 1:30 AM
All 22 caliber semi auto's.

Number 6
12-11-2005, 2:36 AM
Keltec SU-16 in .223 - but has a reputation for being not a great rifle (both accuracy, build quality, and reliability wise).

:confused:

Gunner1
12-11-2005, 11:03 AM
I am not sure were this came from, But I have two Keltec CA models . One has just hit the 1100 round marks without a problem. The other has about 40 rounds through it. Both are accurate dependable guns.
With that said I would rather have an AR15 in this caliber, I am keeping one of the Keltecs mainly for its ability to use a detachable magazine. If the State Of Kalifornia ever embraces the Constitution Of the United States again and overturns its stupid gun laws then both Keltecs would find new homes,

Gunner:mad:

Yes I am in a pissy mood again over the stupid Kalifornia Gun laws, I just talked with a friend who lives in a free state and just got his SBR, supressed ,select fire Ruger 10/22 delivered.....................:mad:

Pulsar
12-11-2005, 11:39 AM
Remington 742, pretty damn accurate and you can find ten round mags for it fairly easy, comes in a variety of calibers, though I prefer 30'06.

Springfield 03' with a pederson device (good luck finding one)

Pretty much any belt fed machine gun, so long as it uses butterfly grips and is only semi auto.

oh and who can forget, the Sten guns.

sintax
12-11-2005, 11:49 AM
I've heard nothing but good things about the SU16-CA. I'd do some reseach.

GTKrockeTT
12-11-2005, 9:49 PM
obviously the SU-16 is no AR, but i've got nothing but good things to say about them...especially for the $$$. i'd say the consensus on THIS board and most others would say the same thing.

DrjonesUSA
12-11-2005, 9:58 PM
I've done lots and lots and lots of research and thinking on this topic, and I now have a Springfield M1A Scout Squad sitting in my closet.

Even if I succeed in getting one of those CA-legal .223 lowers, the M1A will remain my SHTF/main battle rifle, because, well...it IS a battle/war rifle and the .223 rifles are not, by definition. :)

The M1A is a hell of a rifle, and I believe it to be the best option by far for CA residents, as well as for residents of free states.

HEUER
12-11-2005, 10:01 PM
I've done lots and lots and lots of research and thinking on this topic, and I now have a Springfield M1A Scout Squad sitting in my closet.

Even if I succeed in getting one of those CA-legal .223 lowers, the M1A will remain my SHTF/main battle rifle, because, well...it IS a battle/war rifle and the .223 rifles are not, by definition. :)

The M1A is a hell of a rifle, and I believe it to be the best option by far for CA residents, as well as for residents of free states.

and let the games begin...

DrjonesUSA
12-11-2005, 10:05 PM
and let the games begin...


:confused:

Not trying to start anything with my post, and not sure what you are talking about, though I have an idea....

The AR-type rifles are, by definition, NOT battle/war rifles because they do not fire a full-sized rifle round. The .223 is definitely a "medium-sized" cartridge.

It is my personal OPINION that the .308 is a better choice overall for a variety of reasons, basically because I'd rather have a round that is too powerful rather than one that is not powerful enough.

If you disagree, that's fine.

I'll not engage in a flame war or anything.

That's my view and others are welcome to their own.

That said, I still highly recommend the M1A as a main rifle for CA residents. :)

HEUER
12-11-2005, 10:32 PM
You can look up my posts from this forum and the old Calguns.net. I am a huge fan of the M14 type rifle (I own two), but a "loaded standard" with a GI box magazine (not the SA INC 10) is a heavy rifle. Yes, a great SHTF rifle with GI box magazines, but 223 is also a sound choice. Even with 20 or 30 round magzines, 223 rifles are substantially lighter.

The M14 forum generally frowns upon comparing the M14 to rifles chambered in .223 (code for AR) because it generally ends up in circles.

Better to have rifles chambered in both and let them live in harmony.

saki302
12-12-2005, 1:45 AM
At likely ranges for a SHTF scenario within city limits, you would be equally well armed with a .223 as a .308. It's unlikely you'd be shooting over 300 yards away, and the only main advantage .308 has is greater barrier penetration.
With .223, you can carry MUCH more ammo as well. Pick your poison, I guess :D

It's be a tough choice between a 16" AR or my Para FAL in those cases..

-Dave