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View Full Version : 12-4-09 "Arrest," Lessons Learned, and Nuggets of Wisdom


TwitchALot
12-29-2009, 1:28 PM
Disclaimer: This will be long, and there will not be a TLDR version, so don’t bother scrolling down to the bottom looking for one. Along with detailing the specific circumstances of my “arrest,” (arrest to detainment, in actuality) I’ll be providing commentary, discussing important lessons, and sprinkling my own personal philosophy on some issues along the way. I hope it’ll be an interesting read, but most of all, I hope it’ll be an insightful read, because no matter what, we can always be better at everything we do, and everything we are.



My “arrest” occurred on Friday, December 4, 2009. I was walking out of class at about 11:50 AM. I went to my bike, unlocked it, and secured the lock. As I turned around, however, I was rapidly approached by a guy (bald, dark skin, somewhat large, probably about 5’8” with my terrible height guesstimation skills, clean shaven, apparently unarmed, hands at his side, good posture, and business casual clothing) who was obviously interested in starting a conversation with me. You might wonder why I’m mentioning all of that, but it’s very important, as you’ll understand in a minute. In any event, the conversation started with, “Patrick.”

I rebutted with a confused look. Again, he repeated, “Patrick?” Since my first response appeared to be ineffective, I then replied with, “huh?” He repeated again, “Patrick.” By this point, I figured he was introducing himself and wanted to sell me something or talk to me about some important political issue, and since his demeanor, stance, dress, and attitude were not hostile, I finally decided to respond with, “hi?” It turns out this choice of word was highly effective at starting an actual conversation, because he finally asked, “do you know why I’m talking to you”? As I had no idea why he was talking to me, I responded with, “no.” That’s when he replied with, “you're under arrest.” Well, ****. I didn't see THAT one coming.


“Excuse me.” “You’re under arrest.” “I’m under arrest”? “We have a warrant for your arrest, and you are under arrest.” Now step back for a minute here and try to see things from my weird perspective at the time of the incident. Either this guy is a cop, or it’s an elaborate attempt to mug me and steal my stuff or otherwise do something illegal. You may laugh at that at that last one, but it would be because you have no idea just how ingenious thieves and criminals can be. Given his dress, demeanor, approach, facial expression, and my instincts, however, I decided to go with this one. I complied with the arrest and remained still as he went behind me and handcuffed me, and as that was happening, I saw two, uniformed, officers, approaching from my 2.

Which brings us to lesson number one.


Consider the situation if someone else had been in my shoes. Obviously, there’s some kind of misunderstanding here. He thinks that you’re someone you’re not, as you are sure as hell that you don’t have an arrest warrant out for you. You might be tempted to clear up the situation with a, “hold on, I’m not who you think I am,” as you go for your wallet to pull out your ID to confirm that to him. Of course, you may be able to see the huge mistake that would be already. YOU may think that you’re clearing up a misunderstanding and ensuring that you don’t end up in handcuffs by positively identifying yourself. He, and his backup, however, thinks that you’re a criminal with a felony arrest warrant out. I hope by now that you can see how this could have turned out very badly. By doing something as simple as moving my hand toward my pocket to pull out my ID (in an attempt to avoid arrest due to mistaken identity), I could have easily been shot or otherwise sucked pavement. Neither is good.

In addition, one may feel indignant about the whole situation. I know I did. But you can’t let that get in the way of doing what you need to do. I could have started a commotion, cussed out the “officer” or yelled at him about this being a huge mistake and that I’d sue him, or otherwise make a scene. But the street is not a smart place to settle these matters. You won’t win, you’ll probably make your life much more difficult, and you can potentially give the officers justification to use more force than you’d like them to use.


It’s very important that, in any potentially critical situation, you remain calm, rational, and deliberate about what you do and how you present yourself. If you panic and do something rash, like frantically pulling out your wallet to show your ID because you are scared out of your mind about being arrested because the officers think that you are someone else, or you get upset and go ballistic, you can make the situation exponentially worse for yourself and everyone around you. It is CRITICAL that you maintain not just your ability to reason and make deliberate judgments about a situation, but also your composure. Because consider what might have happened had I not been calm, composed, and confident in the way I presented myself. The officers think I’m this guy who has a felony arrest warrant out for him. If you were the arresting officer, what would you have thought if I had looked nervous at the thought of getting arrested? “He’s our guy.” That’s not what you want.

You need to make very clear, in no uncertain terms, that not only are you in charge of you, but that you also have the will to ensure that things stay that way. Because if you ever face such an encounter, it may not be officer “interviewing” you. An interview is just that— officers and criminals alike use it to gauge people. A criminal interviewing you for a possible robbery (and there are many interviewing styles, which I won’t get into here), will look for key things to help him decide whether you make a good target or not. The way you walk, the way you compose yourself, the way you respond to his “interview questions,” may make the difference between you being robbed and/or killed and the robber picking on someone else. Everything you do says something about you. Officers are trained to read you, and if they read “criminal,” it can make the situation much worse for you because of the bias that will probably cause. Alternatively, if a criminal reads, “weak,” you could end up mugged at best and dead at worst. So it’s important that you do not appear weak, nervous, or otherwise out of your mind no matter what happens. It sends the wrong image, and in this case, looks do matter. It can mean the difference between having everything, and losing everything. Every situation has different angles from which it can be viewed, and your point of view may not be consistent with the officer’s point of view or the criminal’s point of view. And as you can see, that’s a very important thing to keep in mind.

If it had turned out that I had thought the plain-clothes officer was an actual threat (ie. he presented himself differently) and I engaged, and the backup officers, thinking that I had a felony arrest warrant out for me, saw that, things would have gone south for everyone very quickly. I’m glad the officer presented himself the way he did, and that I presented myself in the way I did. Because of that, things did not go as badly as they could have gone. Nevertheless, it’s important to keep in mind that little details matter, and that simple actions can have big consequences. So stay calm, and don’t do anything rash or unwise because you’re nervous or unsure of the situation. Present yourself appropriately and confidently, and understand that, while, sometimes, your image may be enough to diffuse or avoid a situation altogether, other times, only direct action on your part will solve the problem, and you should be prepared for that possibility as well.



So, back to the situation at hand. I’m in handcuffs and there are two uniformed officers, and one plain-clothes officer, around me at my 6, 7, and 10. And then comes the dreaded question, “do you have any weapons on you or anything I should be aware of?”

TwitchALot
12-29-2009, 1:28 PM
Now, there seem to be two schools of thought on this kind of matter. The first school believes firmly in the phrase, “officer, am I legally required to answer that question,” and the general exercise of your right to STFU, and the second school believes in saying yes, no, the truth, or something along those lines. I happen to think the best response usually lies somewhere in the middle— that things are usually not black and white, and that although the phrases, “officer, I do not consent to any warrantless searches,” and, “officer, am I free to go,” should come out of your mouth during a stop, detainment, or arrest in many cases, the appropriate response to other questions will depend on the circumstances. Let me clarify that, and keep in mind that in THIS scenario, as far as everyone is concerned, I am under “arrest” and there is a warrant for that (after they had my ID, the arrest became a detention, so I’m told, but that happens later). Although this was a case of mistaken identity, the “arrest” (which requires probable cause, or in the case of detainment, reasonable, articulable, suspicion) would have probably been kosher in so far as they had a warrant and I fit the description of the suspect, was leaving the place the suspect was supposed to be leaving, and was leaving at the time the suspect was supposed to be leaving.

In any event, my situation was not one in which I believe, “officer, am I legally required to answer that question,” to be an optimal phrase. In a situation where the officers have RAS/probable cause to believe you are the person on their arrest warrant and have detained/arrested you as such, this one may not a bad question to answer honestly. That doesn’t mean that this is a good question to answer all of the time, even if you aren’t doing anything illegal, but in this case, I was willing to go with it given the circumstances (I won’t get into detail about that). Be aware, though, that opening your mouth usually carries legal risk with it, so it is up to you to decide how you answer this question given your particular circumstances. Even the most innocent statements can be used against you in court, so if it looks like that’s where you’re going to end up, it’s probably best to just exercise your right to remain silent and mention a few, key, legal phrases along the way. There will be some who will believe that I should have exercised my rights to the fullest extent and should do so all of the time, and there will be others who believe that I should have been completely honest and open about things because I was innocent. Again, I believe the best response usually lies somewhere in the middle, and that exercising your rights and presenting yourself appropriately to the officers (who have some discretion in how they behave) are not always mutually exclusive. Exercising ones rights and courtesy can be done together most of the time (as you’ll see in a minute) and doing both is, I think, really the best way to go about things in most cases, if it can be done. I did what I thought was best for me given the circumstances.


Speaking of wallets, the officer asked me if I had any ID on me. Again, this is one of those times where you need to use your judgment. Not carrying ID on you can sometimes make things better or worse for you (not quite the same as easier or harder for you, by the way) depending on the circumstances. This was a case where it would obviously make the situation better, as the officers believed me to be someone else, and a solid ID would pretty much get me off of the hook. So although I could have again, exercised my rights fully, THIS TIME, I told him the location of my identification and stated that I did not consent to any warrantless searches. This is a key phrase to remember and state any time the issue of a search potentially comes up. At this point, the female officer said something along the lines of, “if you’re not Patrick it won’t matter.” I wasn’t really sure what she meant by this at the time, but for the record, the rights of everyone are important. I took the opportunity to voice my discontent by stating that I would like the names and badge numbers of all of the officers, and was told that that would not be a problem.


The arresting, plain-clothes, officer, then proceeded to ask me if I had a class that I was missing (after looking at my ID, I presume they started to get the idea that I was not this “Patrick” fellow) as they were running my ID with dispatch. I answered that honestly and courteously as well. He then asked me where I was going. This is where I drew the line, and everyone should have a line somewhere (and for the record, that line may depend on the circumstances). I had been compliant and even cooperative when I didn’t have to be, and I wasn’t too interested in doing any more of that and made that perfectly clear by stating, “officer, I’m not interested in answering any more of your questions.” It wasn’t really the nicest way I could have said it, but since I came up with it off of the top of my head right then and there (and I was annoyed at the whole situation), it’s what came out. But for future reference, to deal with situations where officers are asking you questions, and you want to respectfully exercise your right to STFU, try something like: “Officer, I do not wish to answer any more of your questions at this time.”

It’s the polite way of saying, “I’m exercising my right to remain silent.” Of course, you could just remain silent and ignore him, but that will likely just upset the officer (who is human, after all) and make the situation less pleasant for you. While some people don’t care if they upset officers in the exercise of their rights, again, I think that if you can have both— if you can exercise your rights while remaining courteous and respectful— you should take both, particularly if the arresting officer is being very professional about the matter. So add, “officer, I do not wish to answer any more of your questions at this time,” to your repertoire of “things to say to an officer if you’re stopped/detained/arrested.” Although the way I said it at the time was not as courteous as it could have been, it worked well, and the arresting officer said “okay” and did not ask me any more questions.

Although they stopped asking me questions, while running my ID through dispatch, they began telling me what was going on. The arresting officer asked the female officer if I looked just like the suspect, who apparently went by “Patrick” and had an arrest warrant out for him. She essentially replied that I have a twin. As it turns out, “Patrick” was supposed to be leaving the same building at the same time I was, and as I apparently looked just like him, you can begin to see how this whole thing started in the first place. The arresting officer also told me he thought I was playing the “name game” with him earlier. I’m still not really sure how that game was played on my end, given what we both said to each other and how we said it (mostly, everyone was just confused- I thought he was Patrick and he thought I was Patrick), but based on the fact that I ended up in handcuffs, I’d venture a guess and say that I played it poorly. It’s easy in hindsight to say that I should have responded differently, but the situation was analogous to a high school buddy you don’t remember seeing you and trying to jog your memory by repeating his name as you stare at him blankly. On that note, I was told later during a meeting with a supervisor that, regardless of how I responded to the initial contact, I would have been placed in handcuffs anyway. I just looked too close to the suspect to not be stopped, and after seeing a picture of said suspect, I’m inclined to agree that it would have been easy for someone who didn’t know me to mistake me for this other fellow. In any case, dispatch eventually cleared me, and as the arresting officer was uncuffing me, I asked if I was free to go (another important line to remember). The arresting officer replied, “no.”



Remember how I said remaining calm and rational is critical? That holds true no matter how annoyed (or angry, if that’s how you roll) you are with a situation. “No,” was not exactly what I wanted to hear after this whole mess and dispatch clearing my ID. I was supposed to leave class and play Smash, not leave class and get handcuffed. This was not part of the plan, and as far as plans going horribly wrong go, this was pretty much at the top of the list as far as personal experience goes. Falling off of my bike or being hit by a snowball in SoCal while biking are, to me, foreseeable complications (to the turd who tried to hit me with that snowball, I have nothing nice to say to you). Getting handcuffed… not so much. These unusual turn of events was rather irksome, but as the officer released the last cuff, he said, “now you’re free to go.” I replied, “thanks. Can I get those names and badge numbers”? The arresting officer then proceeded to give me his card, his badge number, and the last names and badge numbers of all of the officers present. Which is lesson number two.

TwitchALot
12-29-2009, 1:29 PM
In any direct encounter with law enforcement, whether it’s a traffic stop or arrest or some other encounter, ALWAYS get the name and badge number of the officers involved. If you wish to file a complaint, have an issue, want to follow up, or wish to commend any officer for their professionalism, it will make your life much easier. There is no reason not to obtain information about the incident, including incident reports after the fact. More information will not hurt you, but if something goes wrong later, an employer has questions, or some other circumstance arises, it may help you. So always be sure, no matter what happened, to always get the name and badge number of the officers involved. Usually, it is department policy for officers to provide such upon request. If the officer refuses, press the matter, and if possible, get his car number or any potentially identifying information about the officer, including physical characteristics. Also be sure to note the time and date.


At that point, I obtained the badge numbers and names of the officers involved, thanked the officers, and biked on my merry way to play some Smash. All in all, the arrest into detention lasted about 5-10 minutes. During the whole thing, some people were staring, an old acquaintance biked by and gave me a funny look (I mentioned to him that I was a little busy at the moment), and some other small things/conversations occurred. What is important, though, is that I had conducted myself in a manner that was conducive to my safety, legally and physically, and that the situation ended almost as well as it could have given the circumstances and possible alternatives. Which finally brings me to lessons number three and four.

Lesson number three really should go without saying to everyone, but based on the, “what are the odds” and “why do you carry that” comments we get from anti-rights people and, in general, people who don’t see a value in personal responsibility when it comes to your personal safety (or other matters), things are clearly not how they should be.


Lesson number three: **** happens. I could have easily denied that I was actually being placed under arrest, I could have tried to rationalize the odds and say that this couldn’t be happening to me, and I could have otherwise tried to deny that I was in a very serious situation. But none of that is conducive to solving problems and getting yourself out of a serious situation. The first thing you have to do before solving a problem is accept that there is one (or, in many cases, that there COULD be one). The problem in my case was, I was “under arrest,” and I could have either accepted that and dealt with it, or deny it and otherwise break down. But denying that something very unlikely is happening to you when it is actually happening will not make the problem go away.

Thankfully, if there’s a motto that describes me, “be prepared” is it. I knew, not infinitely, but certainly to some extent, my rights and the law, what I needed to do, how I needed to act, and what I needed to say. And that preparation and knowledge did help. I wasn’t nervous (and thus did not raise more suspicion from the officers), I said what had to be said (I refused to consent to a search, obtained names and badge numbers, stopped the officers from further questioning, etc), and did what I had to do (remain calm). As I showed earlier, it can be VERY easy to make a dangerous mistake if you don’t have any clue as to what you are doing, so preparation, knowledge, and training will help you, if push comes to shove.

Given my attitude about being prepared, the response, “what are the odds,” is one I’m terribly familiar with. Family has said it, friends have said it. “The odds of that happening are so small…” is a phrase that only matters to people who clearly don’t understand that, “**** happens,” and that preparation for SHTF is all fun and games… until it happens to you. Quite frankly, if I had been at Virginia Tech when Seung-Hui Cho was shooting at and killing innocent people (or some other “statistically anomalous” disaster), and you pulled that line on me, I wouldn’t have cared if you had said, “the odds of that happening are so small…” until you were blue in the face. I still would have hit you.

“Odds” only matter to people who aren’t in involved in an odd-defying situation. For the people on the ground during a “statistical anomaly”— such as the middle of a massacre in a classroom by an armed assailant— odds are nothing, and reality is everything. There’s a reason why the phrase, “at least the odds of that happening are really small” is not consoling to people who have gone through tragic, odd-defying, situations (getting struck by lightning and getting paralyzed, getting a flu vaccine and getting paralyzed, etc), and that reason is that although the odds of something tragically unlucky happening to someone may be one in a million, if you’re that one, it sucks. And it’s going to suck for the people who care about you, too.


**** happens. Whether you will be prepared for it when it happens to you is up to you.



Lesson number four: Write it down. Shortly after the event, I scribbled down what happened and what was said, to the best of my recollection, on a scratch piece of paper and signed, dated, and saved it. The level of detail in this post is pretty high because it’s much harder to forget things you wrote down (particularly when you have the piece of paper in front of you) than if you just let it sit around in your head for a while. In addition, writing down the event, signing it, and dating it gives you a record for testimony, should it be necessary. It will be much harder to question the details of the event and accuracy thereof from your perspective if it was written down shortly after the event occurred. So, if something important happens to you, do your best to make sure you have a solid record of it, whether it’s in writing, audio, video, or some other means. In addition, keep good records of any conversations, e-mails, etc that may be pertinent to a situation. Again, it won’t hurt, but it may help. Do whatever you can to ensure that it is never just someone else’s word (in this case, a law enforcement officer’s) against yours, because if it is, you will probably won’t win. Keep good records whenever you can.



All of that said and done, there were things, in retrospect, that I personally think I could have done better given the circumstances. Firstly, at the statement, “you’re under arrest,” I should have asked for a badge and warrant. Remember, I went along with the arrest under the assumption that this was a legitimate (at least, somewhat) arrest attempt by a law enforcement officer based on the information I had and deduced at the time. I could have been wrong. People have had their homes broken into by criminals dressing and/or pretending to be law enforcement and the like, so always check credentials. If they say they have a warrant, you want to see it. If you are being detained or placed under arrest by someone in plain clothes, they’d better have a badge.

Secondly, instead of being confused and responding in questioning tones, I should have just directly asked if he was Patrick, or some other question to immediately clarify the situation. Again, at the time, it seemed like he was introducing himself as Patrick, as if to remind me we had met before, and since I didn’t remember him, I acted that way. It’s easy to say after the fact that I should have said this or that, but when you’re approached in that manner, “I’m not Patrick” is not the first thing that comes to mind, particularly since you aren’t being asked if you’re Patrick or not, and the guy seems like he’s saying he’s Patrick. In my case, it wouldn’t have made a difference to the officers- I would have been stopped, I would have been handcuffed, and I would have been ID’ed. I just looked too much like the suspect for my denial to make a difference to the officers. That said, always ask questions to clarify a situation immediately. Don’t let the situation go on until it becomes clear, because by then, it might be too late. Make the situation clear right from the start by asking questions.


Finally, I’d like to note that the arresting officer was highly professional during the arrest-detention. In the aftermath, there were some questions and issues I had regarding some statements made and the arrest itself. In the end, any issues I had concerning the arrest-detention were adequately and professionally addressed and dealt with. Everyone learned important lessons from this incident (I hope that anyone who reads this does, too), and as a result, some procedural changes will be made to improve the way stops are conducted by the department. With that, I’ll end my long, drawn out, sermon. Again, as long as this was, I hope that if you took the time to read it, you got something out of it. Because **** happens, and you never know if you’ll walk out of class some day and find yourself in handcuffs.


TwitchALot

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-29-2009, 1:42 PM
Smash = smash brothers?

Bill_in_SD
12-29-2009, 2:02 PM
You don't look like PullnShoot do you? :D

Thanks for sharing your experience, it has given me something to chew on.....

Pace
12-29-2009, 2:04 PM
Were you actually arrested and read your miranda rights or were you being detained until they could verify that they had the correct person? Someone who is detained based on reasonable suspicion is deprived of their liberty but they're not under arrest.

TwitchALot
12-29-2009, 2:12 PM
Smash = smash brothers?

Yes.

You don't look like PullnShoot do you?

No. I but I wish I had just for that moment. -_-

Were you actually arrested and read your miranda rights or were you being detained until they could verify that they had the correct person? Someone who is detained based on reasonable suspicion is deprived of their liberty but they're not under arrest.

"Arrested" and then detained. As it was explained to me by the supervisor, I was placed under arrest (probable cause being that I matched the description/picture of the subject on their warrant) until they realized I was probably not the correct person, at which point it became a detainment. In other words, "you can be placed under arrest, and then have that arrest turn into a detainment," as I was told.

spddrcr
12-29-2009, 2:15 PM
Cool Story Bro:sleeping:

Jicko
12-29-2009, 2:34 PM
Finally, I’d like to note that the arresting officer was highly professional during the arrest-detention. In the aftermath, there were some questions and issues I had regarding some statements made and the arrest itself. In the end, any issues I had concerning the arrest-detention were adequately and professionally addressed and dealt with. Everyone learned important lessons from this incident (I hope that anyone who reads this does, too), and as a result, some procedural changes will be made to improve the way stops are conducted by the department. With that, I’ll end my long, drawn out, sermon. Again, as long as this was, I hope that if you took the time to read it, you got something out of it. Because **** happens, and you never know if you’ll walk out of class some day and find yourself in handcuffs.

TwitchALot

I'd like to know "what will change", and what follow-ups did you do to make sure of that.

-hanko
12-29-2009, 2:38 PM
Disclaimer: This will be long, and there will not be a TLDR version, so don’t bother scrolling down to the bottom looking for one. Along with detailing the specific circumstances of my “arrest,” (arrest to detainment, in actuality) I’ll be providing commentary, discussing important lessons, and sprinkling my own personal philosophy on some issues along the way. I hope it’ll be an interesting read, but most of all, I hope it’ll be an insightful read, because no matter what, we can always be better at everything we do, and everything we are.
:sleeping:
I speak BS fairly fluently...translated, you're saying 'Hindsight is perfect'. ;)

It was a case of mistaken identity, hope you're ok.

-hanko
:sleeping:

ilbob
12-29-2009, 2:42 PM
Finally, I’d like to note that the arresting officer was highly professional during the arrest-detention.
Thats where you are wrong. If they were truly professionals they would not have made such an amateur mistake in the first place. Just because they did not beat you to a bloody pulp does not mean they acted professionally.

No doubt they will see it differently.

This is the kind of thing that ought to cost someone a couple days off w/o pay, as a lesson not to do it again.

wash
12-29-2009, 2:43 PM
Tldr, try to be more concise.

Maltese Falcon
12-29-2009, 2:43 PM
Excellent read..thanks for sharing.

.

KylaGWolf
12-29-2009, 2:44 PM
Twitch I am glad all turned out OK. I can say getting stopped for any reason is not fun. As for looking like PNS I don't think it would help SDPD Love him so much already.

aplinker
12-29-2009, 2:45 PM
Were you wearing clean underwear?

Glad it worked out for you & you were somewhat prepared.

OlderThanDirt
12-29-2009, 3:08 PM
Lesson number five: find Patrick and beat the crap out of him.

vhram
12-29-2009, 3:30 PM
Glad it worked out well. Id wear a name tag tomorrow.

Cobrafreak
12-29-2009, 3:44 PM
How are we supposed to know what is going on if you don't give us the detailed version of your story! :D

Noraku81
12-29-2009, 4:16 PM
rule #5 should be: "Under any circumstances should you say Don't Taze Me bro!"

Thanks for sharing your lessons.

GrizzlyGuy
12-29-2009, 4:24 PM
Great story! You handled the situation well. You're right that sh** happens, and the laws of probability are no shield from that. Being prepared for anything, as you were, is the only way to go. Miscellaneous FWIW comments:

Since you were under arrest, they could have searched you anyway, so answering their question about weapons on your person couldn't have hurt you (assuming you answered truthfully, which you did).

Per 841 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/841.html), he should have informed you of his authority to arrest you (that he was a LEO) and why you were being arrested. Or, you could have asked and he would be required to tell you:

The person making the arrest must inform the person to be
arrested of the intention to arrest him, of the cause of the arrest,
and the authority to make it, except when the person making the
arrest has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested
is actually engaged in the commission of or an attempt to commit an
offense, or the person to be arrested is pursued immediately after
its commission, or after an escape.
The person making the arrest must, on request of the person he is
arresting, inform the latter of the offense for which he is being
arrested.

Per 842 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/842.html), the LEO isn't required to have a copy of the arrest warrant with him:

An arrest by a peace officer acting under a warrant is lawful
even though the officer does not have the warrant in his possession
at the time of the arrest, but if the person arrested so requests it,
the warrant shall be shown to him as soon as practicable.

They can arrest and then un-arrest you. However, you should have no arrest record as a result of this incident. If you are ever asked about being arrested in the past (in a job interview, whatever) you should say NO. Per 849.5 PC (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/849.5.html):

In any case in which a person is arrested and released and
no accusatory pleading is filed charging him with an offense, any
record of arrest of the person shall include a record of release.
Thereafter, the arrest shall not be deemed an arrest, but a detention
only.

Again, good work. With your level head and 'be prepared' attitude, you'd make a great hang glider pilot. Improbable sh** always happens, that's what makes it so much fun. :D

B Strong
12-29-2009, 4:29 PM
Lesson number 4 is an fundemental truth - always document in writing any significant interaction with LE. ASAP after the incident.

five.five-six
12-29-2009, 4:37 PM
holly wall of text batman!

cliff notes:

cops thought twitch was some guy they had a warrant for named Patrick

twitch is real proud that he had a LEO contact and did not get beat up or shot

cops let twitch go

the end



did I miss anything?

zhyla
12-29-2009, 4:39 PM
I appreciate you taking the time to write this down and seem to have mostly good advice. But at half way thru your writeup and no I inkling of this being more interesting than a mistaken identity I gave up. Brevity is an important skill. Glad eveything worked out.

TwitchALot
12-29-2009, 4:48 PM
I'd like to know "what will change", and what follow-ups did you do to make sure of that.

The whole thing hasn't been wrapped up yet, but I'll let you know once it is.

I speak BS fairly fluently...translated, you're saying 'Hindsight is perfect'.

While that may be true, that's not what I was saying in that section. ;)

Thats where you are wrong. If they were truly professionals they would not have made such an amateur mistake in the first place. Just because they did not beat you to a bloody pulp does not mean they acted professionally.

No doubt they will see it differently.

This is the kind of thing that ought to cost someone a couple days off w/o pay, as a lesson not to do it again.

As I said, the matter was dealt with to my satisfaction. Anyone can make mistakes, and I'm convinced that this mistake was not due to negligence or incompetence.

Were you wearing clean underwear?

Yes. Before and after. :)


Since you were under arrest, they could have searched you anyway, so answering their question about weapons on your person couldn't have hurt you (assuming you answered truthfully, which you did).

That was my suspicion, but in any event, I didn't think it was a good idea to stiff arm at this point.

Per 841 PC, he should have informed you of his authority to arrest you (that he was a LEO) and why you were being arrested. Or, you could have asked and he would be required to tell you:

This was not done, and it was brought up and settled.

Per 842 PC, the LEO isn't required to have a copy of the arrest warrant with him:

That sucks. -_- Thanks for the info.

They can arrest and then un-arrest you. However, you should have no arrest record as a result of this incident. If you are ever asked about being arrested in the past (in a job interview, whatever) you should say NO. Per 849.5 PC:

That is correct.

holly wall of text batman!

cliff notes:

cops thought twitch was some guy they had a warrant for named Patrick

twitch is real proud that he had a LEO contact and did not get beat up or shot

cops let twitch go

the end



did I miss anything?

Yes. All of the important parts.

I appreciate you taking the time to write this down and seem to have mostly good advice. But at half way thru your writeup and no I inkling of this being more interesting than a mistaken identity I gave up. Brevity is an important skill. Glad eveything worked out.

As is being able to accept life as a teacher and listening to its lessons (and patience, at that). I could have given 556's version of events, but what's the point?

c good
12-29-2009, 4:53 PM
Great story, glad it worked out but....why not ask what it was all about first? Then simply tell them you're not Patrick? Overthinking a situation can sometimes complicate things. c good

B.D.Dubloon
12-29-2009, 4:56 PM
Great story, glad it worked out but....why not ask what it was all about first? Then simply tell them you're not Patrick? Overthinking a situation can sometimes complicate things. c good

I also don't get how this incredibly minor incident turned into a thread in which the op took three boxes.

Afterburnt
12-29-2009, 5:33 PM
Good thread for the uninitiated. I would like to have lived a life where this was a learning experience. I unfortunately have been through this kind of stuff since I was small. I thank God for my good instincts and good luck, its seems that I have a naturally calming effect on LE's (I am not bad, I am just drawn that way LMAO!). I have no idea what it would be like if I had such good fortune to get my cherry busted after living a long life thinking "**** don't happen". I have never had that opportunity. Life has not been necessarily good but it sure has been interesting.

"lived in a brownstone, lived int the ghetto, I've lived all over this town..."

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 5:57 PM
You don't look like PullnShoot do you? :D

Thanks for sharing your experience, it has given me something to chew on.....

HAHA. Twitch is short an Asian, I am short and Albino.

Bruce
12-29-2009, 6:04 PM
Tldr, try to be more concise.

Yeah, What he said.

Table Rock Arms
12-29-2009, 6:19 PM
Good thing it was you instead of me. here is how it would have gone if it were me.

Officer - "patrick"
me - "what"
Officer - "patrick"
Me - "If you call me patrick again I'm gonna beat your ***"

Not good

Sick Boy
12-29-2009, 6:20 PM
So, back to the situation at hand. I’m in handcuffs and there are two uniformed officers, and one plain-clothes officer, around me at my 6, 7, and 10. And then comes the dreaded question, “do you have any weapons on you or anything I should be aware of?”

So, did you? Did they search you, you didn't really say, though I may have missed it. Somehow.....

Ducman
12-29-2009, 6:29 PM
you lost me at "disclaimer" :p

Fjold
12-29-2009, 6:32 PM
HAHA. Twitch is short an Asian, I am short and Albino.


Were all the cops occidentals?

twinfin
12-29-2009, 6:41 PM
Twitchy,

I appreciate the detail in your post. It did help set the stage and explain your approach to the situation.

The one thing that gets little discussion is that once we know what our rights are and where the boundaries are, it is still up to us as individuals to combine what we have learned with our own intelligence, insight, tact and above all, diplomacy in applying what we know, wisely.

In a law enforcement encounter, you are still dealing with another human being who comes with his own ego, level of skill, and objectives. By using your intellect to analyze the situation at hand and rationally and calmly make decisions as events unfold, you demonstrate how one can deal with a somewhat stressful law enforcement encounter while maintaining dignity and some degree of autonomy.

Having a solid understanding of our rights must not be underestimated, nor can the ability to assert those rights with wisdom, maturity, skill and diplomacy.

liketoshoot
12-29-2009, 6:50 PM
So you're an English major?
Glad you got away with it............... Pat. LOL
No really good write up and all but to much for me.

Colt-45
12-29-2009, 7:09 PM
holy s%^ what a nightmare..... :wacko:

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 7:32 PM
holy s%^ what a nightmare..... :wacko:

Nightmare would be if he had a gun in his face.

Lone_Gunman
12-29-2009, 7:39 PM
OK. I read the whole thing and just have one question. What the F does TLDR stand for?

pullnshoot25
12-29-2009, 7:48 PM
OK. I read the whole thing and just have one question. What the F does TLDR stand for?

Too Long, Didn't Read. 4Chan speak.

wash
12-29-2009, 7:59 PM
The thing I want to know is was he detained longer than it takes to read his story?

RandyD
12-29-2009, 8:07 PM
Based on the op's story, I believe the police should have verified his identity before informing him he was under arrest or placing handcuffs on him.

vandal
12-29-2009, 8:08 PM
I appreciate the detail.

To Monday-morning quarterback which I know is not fair:

1) Managing Unknown Contacts: Fail.

2) "Do I have anything on me you should know about? My ID, right rear pocket."

Table Rock Arms
12-29-2009, 9:14 PM
Based on the op's story, I believe the police should have verified his identity before informing him he was under arrest or placing handcuffs on him.

It was an honest mistake. It was his twin who is also in his class, that he has never seen before.

N6ATF
12-29-2009, 9:38 PM
Good thing it was you instead of me. here is how it would have gone if it were me.

Officer - "patrick"
me - "what"
Officer - "patrick"
Me - "If you call me patrick again I'm gonna beat your ***"

Not good

Mine:
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "Stewart?"
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "Dempsey?"
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "Swayze?"
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "I give up."

Gray Peterson
12-29-2009, 9:58 PM
Sue them under 42USC1983. Make an expensive example out of the department.

cbn620
12-29-2009, 10:13 PM
Wow, some people can be real d-bags when presented with something they have to read. Oh dear lord, do I have to? I don't like this readin' stuff, what is this, school? Well, I'll just make fun of the guy or something to take the focus elsewhere.

If it's too long for you to wrap one twentieth of your brain around, and you really can't muster enough attention to read it, then why bother commenting?

RandyD
12-29-2009, 10:16 PM
It was an honest mistake. It was his twin who is also in his class, that he has never seen before.

After I submitted my post, I realized I forgot to comment on that same point. I did not buy it either, that the officer thought he must have an identical twin, leaving the same building at the same time. As a former LEO, I can say police departments issue notices on a routine/weekly basis to their officers that contain descriptions and photos of persons who the department is seeking to detain or arrest. One of the applications of these notices is that after six months of saving these sheets, every citizen's physical description could be matched to a person described on the notices. This provides justification to any officer to detain anyone he desires as long as he can make a case that he fit the description of someone on a notice. This is an end run on our Fourth Amendment Rights.

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-29-2009, 10:17 PM
Yes.

Original, Melee, or Brawl?

dwh100
12-29-2009, 10:31 PM
Find Patrick and kick him in the nuts!

ivanimal
12-29-2009, 10:39 PM
I wish my mistaken identity arrest went this well. Turns out I had drank too much and it was me all along. Where is Patrick when you need him?

N6ATF
12-29-2009, 11:15 PM
After I submitted my post, I realized I forgot to comment on that same point. I did not buy it either, that the officer thought he must have an identical twin, leaving the same building at the same time. As a former LEO, I can say police departments issue notices on a routine/weekly basis to their officers that contain descriptions and photos of persons who the department is seeking to detain or arrest. One of the applications of these notices is that after six months of saving these sheets, every citizen's physical description could be matched to a person described on the notices. This provides justification to any officer to detain anyone he desires as long as he can make a case that he fit the description of someone on a notice. This is an end run on our Fourth Amendment Rights.

Wow. Coincidence that they went after a law-abiding gun owner? I think not.

Meplat
12-30-2009, 12:08 AM
Why do I get the feeling that OP is taking police science classes?:rolleyes:

TwitchALot
12-30-2009, 1:23 AM
Great story, glad it worked out but....why not ask what it was all about first? Then simply tell them you're not Patrick? Overthinking a situation can sometimes complicate things. c good

A matter of priority. I knew they had a warrant, I knew it wasn’t for me, but I was also in handcuffs in a serious situation. I didn’t really care who the other guy was or what he did at the time- my priority was dealing with the situation at hand. As for saying I wasn’t Patrick, again, at the time, I thought he was Patrick. In addition to the officer thinking I was already playing the name game with him, even if that weren’t the case, as the supervisor said when were discussing the matter, “you might not find this surprising, but people lie.”

So, did you? Did they search you, you didn't really say, though I may have missed it. Somehow.....

Yes, no, and yes I did.

So you're an English major?

No.

2) "Do I have anything on me you should know about? My ID, right rear pocket."

Still don’t understand why people do this. It’s easier to pick pocket and less convenient when you’re sitting down.

Wow, some people can be real d-bags when presented with something they have to read. Oh dear lord, do I have to? I don't like this readin' stuff, what is this, school? Well, I'll just make fun of the guy or something to take the focus elsewhere.

If it's too long for you to wrap one twentieth of your brain around, and you really can't muster enough attention to read it, then why bother commenting?

Thank you. Particularly as disclaimer was given, and that post was for the benefit of the people who read it, not mine.

Original, Melee, or Brawl?

Original.

Wow. Coincidence that they went after a law-abiding gun owner? I think not.

It was purely coincidence that I was leaving the same building at the same time with the same looks as the suspect. Lousy, huh?

E Pluribus Unum
12-30-2009, 2:35 AM
Dang man... you typed too much for a non-incident. :)

You were not arrested. You matched the description of a felony suspect. You were detained for a short time and let go. No biggie. :)

TRICKSTER
12-30-2009, 2:44 AM
Wow. Coincidence that they went after a law-abiding gun owner? I think not.

:eek::hide:

Bill_in_SD
12-30-2009, 8:47 AM
HAHA. Twitch is short an Asian, I am short and Albino.

If he did look anything like you, this was your subtle warning to skip town cause they are looking for you.... ;)

Then again, there is no mistaking the identity of celebrities! Well, I am sure your picture is hanging somewhere at PD with your articles and contact reports.

Matt C
12-30-2009, 9:14 AM
All of that said and done, there were things, in retrospect, that I personally think I could have done better given the circumstances. Firstly, at the statement, “you’re under arrest,” I should have asked for a badge and warrant. Remember, I went along with the arrest under the assumption that this was a legitimate (at least, somewhat) arrest attempt by a law enforcement officer based on the information I had and deduced at the time. I could have been wrong. People have had their homes broken into by criminals dressing and/or pretending to be law enforcement and the like, so always check credentials. If they say they have a warrant, you want to see it. If you are being detained or placed under arrest by someone in plain clothes, they’d better have a badge.

Agree with this part 100%. No way some guy in a suit with no ID is putting cuffs on me, that's just crazy.

hill billy
12-30-2009, 9:17 AM
holy s%^ what a nightmare..... :wacko:

That it happened or reading the whole thing?

Glad it worked out for you.

mej16489
12-30-2009, 10:11 AM
Too Long, Didn't Read. 4Chan speak.

TLDR existed LONG before 4Chan....youngins' !

Bugei
12-30-2009, 10:14 AM
Wow, some people can be real d-bags when presented with something they have to read. Oh dear lord, do I have to? I don't like this readin' stuff, what is this, school? Well, I'll just make fun of the guy or something to take the focus elsewhere.

If it's too long for you to wrap one twentieth of your brain around, and you really can't muster enough attention to read it, then why bother commenting?

Agreed. Geez, compared to some of the legislation we've had to read just to keep up with the posts on this forum, a 3-box story is a walk in the park!

BigJim_610
12-30-2009, 10:41 AM
Cliff notes please.

ponderosa
12-30-2009, 10:44 AM
Cliff notes please.

Those are provided in post #22

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 3:51 PM
TLDR existed LONG before 4Chan....youngins' !

HAHAHA! That made me laugh!

wash
12-30-2009, 4:11 PM
I don't want to break his balls too much but if the OP wants to get people's attention, he needs to write like it's a newspaper article. The first paragraph should tell who, what, why and where. Fill in the detail after that.

I got most of the way through the first post and as far as I could tell someone was calling him Patrick and two uniformed cops were approaching. It wasn't easy reading either, I'm no English professor but I just got done reading a ~400 page novel that I started last weekend. I read fine but his post was difficult.

Writing isn't that hard, you just need to do things differently if you want to suck people in to the story.

five.five-six
12-30-2009, 4:19 PM
Wow, some people can be real d-bags when presented with something they have to read. Oh dear lord, do I have to? I don't like this readin' stuff, what is this, school? Well, I'll just make fun of the guy or something to take the focus elsewhere.

If it's too long for you to wrap one twentieth of your brain around, and you really can't muster enough attention to read it, then why bother commenting?

meh, some people hated having to read in grade school, others hated to have to go to church... immature reactions to both situations in adulthood are common around here

hollabillz
12-30-2009, 4:52 PM
Wow, some people can be real d-bags when presented with something they have to read. Oh dear lord, do I have to? I don't like this readin' stuff, what is this, school? Well, I'll just make fun of the guy or something to take the focus elsewhere.

If it's too long for you to wrap one twentieth of your brain around, and you really can't muster enough attention to read it, then why bother commenting?

I read it. Personally, I found it to be unbelievably long winded and preachy. It could have been more helpful if he described the events in detail as a data point, rather than writing a novel called Sweeping Generalizations From My Five Minute Police Encounter. No one insulted him... Relax. :cool:

c good
12-30-2009, 4:59 PM
Mine:
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "Stewart?"
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "Dempsey?"
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "Swayze?"
Officer - "Patrick"
Me - "I give up."

:D:):D:D Classic!

thegratenate
12-30-2009, 6:00 PM
I am trying but still can't make sense of this.

I'll have to re read when I have more time.

paul0660
12-30-2009, 6:07 PM
too long to read. At the first contact, try "who the heck are you" and see what happens.

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 6:16 PM
I read it. Personally, I found it to be unbelievably long winded and preachy. It could have been more helpful if he described the events in detail as a data point, rather than writing a novel called Sweeping Generalizations From My Five Minute Police Encounter. No one insulted him... Relax. :cool:

I know Twitch personally and I often find myself saying to him "TLDR." He is, if anything, a prolific writer.

Casual_Shooter
12-30-2009, 6:45 PM
He's got to be an engineer.

916Plinker
12-30-2009, 6:52 PM
:laugh::rofl:Cool Story Bro:sleeping:

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 7:18 PM
He's got to be an engineer.

Pharm and Poli Sci double major.

Close! ;)

TwitchALot
12-30-2009, 8:37 PM
I don't want to break his balls too much but if the OP wants to get people's attention, he needs to write like it's a newspaper article. The first paragraph should tell who, what, why and where. Fill in the detail after that.

I got most of the way through the first post and as far as I could tell someone was calling him Patrick and two uniformed cops were approaching. It wasn't easy reading either, I'm no English professor but I just got done reading a ~400 page novel that I started last weekend. I read fine but his post was difficult.

Writing isn't that hard, you just need to do things differently if you want to suck people in to the story.

It was written the way it was written for a very good reason. The point was not for you to have a clear picture as to what happened- the point was for you to have a clear picture of the important LESSONS you could take away from my incident applied to the incident as it unfolded. If I had believed it would have been more effective to briefly outline the whole story in the beginning all at once, I would have.

But as I suspected, if I had done that, more people would have been inclined to stop reading after realizing what had happened, and would have skipped all of the important parts. They would completely TLDR'ed the most critical aspects of the post: the decisions, the logic, and the lessons behind what happened as it happened. Some people did it anyway DESPITE the fact that it was written in a way that discouraged that, but that's certainly not my fault.

I read it. Personally, I found it to be unbelievably long winded and preachy. It could have been more helpful if he described the events in detail as a data point, rather than writing a novel called Sweeping Generalizations From My Five Minute Police Encounter. No one insulted him... Relax.

Helpful to what end? To you understanding what happened, or to you understanding what important lessons you could take away from the incident and the logic thereof?

What does this have to do with a weapon?
I don't want to blow any one's internet cover or anything, but were you packin', or not?

I wasn't doing anything illegal.



On a general note, I will say this: Most things I do are deliberate. If I do it the way I do it, or wear something the way I wear it, usually, there is a very good reason as to why I do it THAT way and not another way. Could I have summarized the event much more succinctly and clearly? Of course.

Would that have accomplished the objective I had set out to accomplish? No.

If you're reading my posts in an attempt to figure out what happened, don't waste your time. Go to the summary post (#22 or something?) and get it from there. If you want to learn something, though, and improve the way YOU do thing, then read the whole thing as written. You'll find the logic and lessons very easy to understand and apply to the situation as I described it.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-30-2009, 9:37 PM
After reading this I just can't get the image out of my head of the real Patrick walking out of the building past the three officers one minute later while the detainment was going on and him thinking to himself, "WTF?." :D


Why do I get the feeling that OP is taking police science classes?:rolleyes:

No way. If the OP was taking police science classes then he would have used the word "domicile" at least once. :p

turbosbox
12-30-2009, 9:51 PM
Good thing it was you instead of me. here is how it would have gone if it were me.

Officer - "patrick"
me - "what"
Officer - "patrick"
Me - "If you call me patrick again I'm gonna beat your ***"

Not good

Funny. I did learn something out of this thread:

Quote:
They can arrest and then un-arrest you. However, you should have no arrest record as a result of this incident. If you are ever asked about being arrested in the past (in a job interview, whatever) you should say NO. Per 849.5 PC:


Cool, so when I was drunk and arrested, cuffed, and later released, for telling the cop to leave the bar and let me drink in peace, I don't have to admit to being arrested :cheers2:
I guess that speaks to a previous thread where I was called a LEO boot-licker. I generally don't have an axe to grind with them, but I guess folks who said that, should ask themselves if they've been arrested for telling a LEO in uniform to go away? :D

wash
12-30-2009, 10:00 PM
Logic, that's hard to teach.

It's hard to teach anything if you can't hold the attention of your audience.

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 10:16 PM
Holy crap I tried to read this on my blackberry but it blew out the buffer and smoke started pouring from the speaker port! I had to log on from a real computer just to stand a chance of reading the entire book!

Now that I've made my way through most of it, nothing happened and your description of the events took much longer to read than the actual event?

If someone walks up to you and says you are under arrest, next time you might want to ask some questions of them.

Casual_Shooter
12-30-2009, 10:32 PM
It was written the way it was written for a very good reason. The point was not for you to have a clear picture as to what happened- the point was for you to have a clear picture of the important LESSONS you could take away from my incident applied to the incident as it unfolded.

Wow... you think very highly of yourself.

Pyrodyne
12-30-2009, 10:39 PM
I had a similar run-in with the local LEOs, however the situation was much more strained. I was with a couple friends, and we went to a fancy local shop that sells specialty beers and fine liquors after a long, shoulder bruising day at the range. A couple of us were smoking before going in, and suddenly we were approached by one LEO that immediately asked us where we came from and where we were headed. We had gone through the main route in town and told him so. His next question was if any of us were smoking any marijuana. I am sure all of us were thinking "Oh crap, this and then we have a pile of guns and ammunition in the trunk".

Well the firearms didn't come into the picture, as the LEO had failed to notice that we drove to the spot, and he was under the impression that we were on foot. I digress. Two other officers also showed up to ensure that us computer technician hoodlums wouldn't gang up on the solo LEO, so we each had our own LEO to speak with. I have a bit of an attention problem due to my over-sensitive hearing so when multiple people are speaking either I hear gibberish, or I get the words mixed up. The problem gets worse under stress.

All of the officers were extremely jumpy at any movement we made, though I attribute this to the fact that they were all rookies. Reading the OP, and knowing now what I should have known then, our answers meant exactly nothing to the first LEO. All of the LEOs involved repeated several times that it was "OK if you did smoke some, we just want to know". I say in our defense now that we definitely are not and haven't been marijuana smokers. I wouldn't tolerate shooting alongside someone that was under the influence, much less skeet shoot with them.

All said and done, the officers took down our names and pored over our IDs, and my LEO definitely noticed my HSC card just below my ham radio license. Around that point he at least started to relax and the situation became much less tense and we gabbed about the local emergency comms group and we were on our way to buy some rare malt beauties to soothe wounded shoulders.

Remaining calm and answering the required questions is the key as the OP very well underlines. In our situation, all of the LEOs were rookies and were very nervous at the sight of us. We also probably reeked with about $300 worth of expended ammunition, and all LEOs rookies or not probably know the smell straight out or at least subliminally. I really can't imagine any LEO getting so tense over a group of marijuana smokers, especially when the backup arrives and they are all tense. Literally their hands never strayed from their holsters.

We all walked away with the jitters over that event, and we reviewed what happened and what we said and how to better answer next time. LEOs aren't typically english majors, and sometimes miscommunications will happen. It is good to keep this in mind and not be afraid to correct them if they make a mistake. Also, when you are stopped by a LEO, literally almost nothing you say will change their final actions unless you incriminate yourself. If they intend to arrest you, it is unlikely you will not be arrested.

Another important fact to keep in mind is that an arrest is not important in the long run. I have been arrested, detained and released earlier in life on another case of mistaken identity. With identity theft on the rise, they really have to make sure of who you are. The "name game" mentioned earlier is a reference to criminals using fake or stolen ID to conceal their true identity.

Worst come to worst, you will be charged and have to fight in court. I have seen countless videos where people go screaming and yelling and even fighting(!) because they don't want to be arrested. This behavior will usually end badly and possibly even with jail time. Treat your LEOs with respect even if you don't feel they are returning the courtesy. If they step really too far over the line, you have recourse to sue or file a complaint as the situation merits. (Please don't sue LEOs indiscriminately!)

Also keep in mind that LEOs have to deal with being painted targets everywhere they go. Many criminals won't hesitate to do damage, and LEOs will have in mind specific reactions to your actions. Move your hands quickly to your pocket, they draw a taser or firearm and fire on you. They don't know that you are a good citizen that means no harm, they know that your hand is diving into a pocket with unknown contents. Keep your movements SLOW and only move when the LEO asks you to. Keep your hands on the wheel or at your sides otherwise.

Very helpful and insightful thread BTW!

ivanimal
12-30-2009, 10:40 PM
Why is no one worried about poor Patrick?

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 10:44 PM
Holy crap I tried to read this on my blackberry but it blew out the buffer and smoke started pouring from the speaker port! I had to log on from a real computer just to stand a chance of reading the entire book!

Now that I've made my way through most of it, nothing happened and your description of the events took much longer to read than the actual event?

If someone walks up to you and says you are under arrest, next time you might want to ask some questions of them.

You owe me a new keyboard!

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 10:54 PM
You owe me a new keyboard!

OP owes me a new blackberry... :(

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 10:57 PM
I had a similar run-in with the local LEOs,
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Very helpful and insightful thread BTW!

Holy cow, I didn't read your post because it was too long. Just like the first one. Don't people learn around here !!! :D

:rofl2:

I lied, I went back and read your post. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! You were approached by a police officer, walking into a store, and you played his game? At what point did you realize that you could just ignore them and leave? Or did that thought never even enter your mind. I can't believe you gave them your ID to run. You need to read a lot of the posts on here, and you need to watch these videos...

i8z7NC5sgik

08fZQWjDVKE


Next time they try this, you should be saying "That's NONE OF YOUR ****ING BUSINESS...."

oaklander
12-30-2009, 11:00 PM
I think there's something sexual about some people's preoccupation with their LEO encounters.

Kind of like an obsession with being detained by someone in uniform.

:p

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/108539.jpg

Tweak338
12-30-2009, 11:03 PM
I think there's something sexual about some people's preoccupation with their LEO encounters.

Kind of like an obsession with being detained by someone in uniform.

:p
Not going to lie.
When I got pulled over on Christmas.
I was hoping she was going to handcuff me, just for fun.

All she did was let me go :(

oaklander
12-30-2009, 11:06 PM
I thought you told me it was a guy. . .

Not going to lie.
When I got pulled over on Christmas.
I was hoping she was going to handcuff me, just for fun.

All she did was let me go :(

bigcalidave
12-30-2009, 11:07 PM
Not going to lie.
When I got pulled over on Christmas.
I was hoping she was going to handcuff me, just for fun.

All she did was let me go :(

I've asked a couple of good looking female officers if they wanted to cuff me, just for fun.. On christmas? You could have asked her for a present!

I thought you told me it was a guy. . .


Oh how the stories change!

TwitchALot
12-30-2009, 11:10 PM
Logic, that's hard to teach.

It's hard to teach anything if you can't hold the attention of your audience.

The logic behind my actions, or the actions I should have taken, seems quite clear. If it isn't, please point out where it is not so I can attempt to clarify it for you.

As for the last part, "listening" is a two-way street. I've done my part. If you or other people are too lazy to read it because you have no attention span, that's fine- don't read it. But don't try to blame me for that. No subject in the world can be comprehensively detailed in a post/book shorter than mine by a longshot, so if you don't want to learn by reading, go learn by doing, if you so desire.


Now that I've made my way through most of it, nothing happened and your description of the events took much longer to read than the actual event?

If someone walks up to you and says you are under arrest, next time you might want to ask some questions of them.

:rolleyes:

Wow... you think very highly of yourself.

If you think the lessons/advice I'm sharing or the logic behind them are flawed, unsound, or otherwise warrant significant improvement, do share. If you've got something better, I'd be interested in it, as would several other people (I presume).

I'm also curious as to how your comment is related to what you quoted, FYI.

.....

Thanks for sharing!

Tweak338
12-30-2009, 11:13 PM
I thought you told me it was a guy. . .
Well, there was a dude too..

I've asked a couple of good looking female officers if they wanted to cuff me, just for fun.. On christmas? You could have asked her for a present!


HAHA, I should have.. but didn't want to push my luck
Said I haven't been drinking(didn't)
But I had a flattened 24 case and about 10 empties in the box in my bed( she opened it)

five.five-six
12-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Wow... you think very highly of yourself.

thanks for the LOL, now my kid is awake :mad:

oaklander
12-30-2009, 11:16 PM
You (106 words):

My “arrest” occurred on Friday, December 4, 2009. I was walking out of class at about 11:50 AM. I went to my bike, unlocked it, and secured the lock. As I turned around, however, I was rapidly approached by a guy (bald, dark skin, somewhat large, probably about 5’8” with my terrible height guesstimation skills, clean shaven, apparently unarmed, hands at his side, good posture, and business casual clothing) who was obviously interested in starting a conversation with me. You might wonder why I’m mentioning all of that, but it’s very important, as you’ll understand in a minute. In any event, the conversation started with, “Patrick.”

Me (23 words):

On December 4th, I had just gotten out of class and was unlocking my bike. A bald man approached me and said "Patrick?"

You (127 words):

I rebutted with a confused look. Again, he repeated, “Patrick?” Since my first response appeared to be ineffective, I then replied with, “huh?” He repeated again, “Patrick.” By this point, I figured he was introducing himself and wanted to sell me something or talk to me about some important political issue, and since his demeanor, stance, dress, and attitude were not hostile, I finally decided to respond with, “hi?” It turns out this choice of word was highly effective at starting an actual conversation, because he finally asked, “do you know why I’m talking to you”? As I had no idea why he was talking to me, I responded with, “no.” That’s when he replied with, “you're under arrest.” Well, ****. I didn't see THAT one coming.

Me (18 words):

"He said 'Patrick' a couple of more times. I finally said 'hi,' and he put me under arrest."

:p

Try this short essay by George Orwell - it will help your writing:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

oaklander
12-30-2009, 11:17 PM
The THREE of you - that would have been a party. . .

Well, there was a dude too..

pullnshoot25
12-30-2009, 11:19 PM
GAAAAAAAGH!

This thread makes me want to pluck my eyeballs out and feed them to oaklander's Bianca.

five.five-six
12-30-2009, 11:35 PM
IMO, when writing, one objective should be to capture the interest of the reader...

truthfully, I stopped reading about 1/2 way through because I just didn't care what happened to the OP any more

TwitchALot
12-30-2009, 11:41 PM
You (106 words):

Me (23 words):

You (127 words):

Me (18 words):

:p

Try this short essay by George Orwell - it will help your writing:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

I haven't read your link yet, but your shortcuts lacks important details. For example, your 23 word shortcut gives no impression as to what the guy looks like or the way he is behaving. As I thoroughly explained, that's very important. In addition, your description is even incorrect. I was not unlocking my bike. As for why that might important, go watch that often-posted, "don't talk to the police video" again, and you might gain a greater appreciation for the importance of attention to detail.

Your 18 word short cut has the same problem. Not only does it not have any explanation for why I did the things I did, it does not set the tone of the conversation. In fact, it gets it wrong. I did not say, "hi," I said, "hi?" Why would your tone and presentation matter? Well, I explained that too.


So again, while I could have been more vague and as a consequence, succinct, I chose not to because, "little details can have big consequences." That sounds familiar... :)

IMO, when writing, one objective should be to capture the interest of the reader...

truthfully, I stopped reading about 1/2 way through because I just didn't care what happened to the OP any more

Quite frankly, life lessons (or listening in general) tend not to be interesting to most people. That's one reason why I structured the posts the way I did.

bigcalidave
12-31-2009, 12:03 AM
Quite frankly, life lessons (or listening in general) tend not to be interesting to most people. That's one reason why I structured the posts the way I did.

You knew it wasn't going to be interesting so you made the post so long that nobody would even try? :D Is that what you were shooting for ?

N6ATF
12-31-2009, 12:05 AM
Perhaps RandyD's quote in my post wasn't large enough to read. Blame vBulletin for having a font size bug. Quoted for truth, again.

As a former LEO, I can say police departments issue notices on a routine/weekly basis to their officers that contain descriptions and photos of persons who the department is seeking to detain or arrest. One of the applications of these notices is that after six months of saving these sheets, every citizen's physical description could be matched to a person described on the notices. This provides justification to any officer to detain anyone he desires as long as he can make a case that he fit the description of someone on a notice. This is an end run on our Fourth Amendment Rights.

And if you have read RandyD's post, you would understand why I said...

Wow. Coincidence that they went after a law-abiding gun owner? I think not.

TwitchALot
12-31-2009, 12:19 AM
You knew it wasn't going to be interesting so you made the post so long that nobody would even try? :D Is that what you were shooting for ?

I knew that most people would only care about what happened and then skip the "TLDR" important parts. Nevertheless, I did my best to discourage that.


And if you have read RandyD's post, you would understand why I said...

Wow. Coincidence that they went after a law-abiding gun owner? I think not.

I read his post, and yours, and again, it was a coincidence that I was at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong looks. Bad luck, sure. But the fact that I enjoy shooting had nothing to do with it.

Jpach
12-31-2009, 1:31 AM
IMO, when writing, one objective should be to capture the interest of the reader...

truthfully, I stopped reading about 1/2 way through because I just didn't care what happened to the OP any more

I care about what happened to the OP but I feel that even with his intended purpose of teaching lessons, he was extremely redundant and the read was very frustrating. The same things were repeated several times in 2-3 paragraphs each. "Again..., Once again..." etc. kinda stuff. No more "Again"s! If the OP would have just given the lessons ONCE I think it would have been a much more managable read.

And the OP gets on Oaklander for getting the facts of the story slightly wrong when HE doesnt even provide much detail on what actually happened to him. If you dont care to write about the story, dont get on someone over a question mark.

Either way OP, were glad that you didnt get into serious trouble. Keep on keepin on

Jpach
12-31-2009, 1:34 AM
You (106 words):



Me (23 words):


You (127 words):



Me (18 words):



:p

Try this short essay by George Orwell - it will help your writing:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

Good summary oak ;)

BTW, bad *** Dogo Argentino/pit bull mix. Where did you find him/her? I was looking at the Dogo online a few weeks ago and realized that I need one. How does the size and temperament change after being mixed witha pitbull?

wash
12-31-2009, 7:42 AM
So, the important part was what you were thinking while your rights were being violated?

So far I don't know the whole story but it sounds like you gave them your ID which you probably didn't have to do, then you got arrested any way. Is this a bad example I'm supposed to learn from?

oaklander
12-31-2009, 8:46 AM
Thanks!

I got Blanca from FOFAS ("Friends of the Fairmont Animal Shelter") in San Leandro. I found her on PetFinder.com.

Compared to the breed standard, she is a little more dog reactive than I imagine a standard Dogo would be. But I chalk some of this up to her still being a puppy, and really wanting to play!

She's probably also a little smaller than a Dogo (65 pounds now - will probably get up to 80).

:)

Good summary oak ;)

BTW, bad *** Dogo Argentino/pit bull mix. Where did you find him/her? I was looking at the Dogo online a few weeks ago and realized that I need one. How does the size and temperament change after being mixed witha pitbull?

oaklander
12-31-2009, 8:57 AM
You:

bald, dark skin, somewhat large, probably about 5’8” with my terrible height guesstimation skills, clean shaven, apparently unarmed, hands at his side, good posture, and business casual clothing

Me:

Non-threatening.

You are wondering why you are getting all this flack. You wrote a 4700 word essay on something that could have been summarized in 500 words. You added details that have nothing to do with anything.

You tell the readers at the start that you are NOT going to summarize, thus letting them know that you don't care about their time.

You added "lessons" that are simply common sense.

Then you bristle at the criticisms.

Does that about sum up your post and this thread?

:p

I haven't read your link yet, but your shortcuts lacks important details. For example, your 23 word shortcut gives no impression as to what the guy looks like or the way he is behaving. As I thoroughly explained, that's very important. In addition, your description is even incorrect. I was not unlocking my bike. As for why that might important, go watch that often-posted, "don't talk to the police video" again, and you might gain a greater appreciation for the importance of attention to detail.

Your 18 word short cut has the same problem. Not only does it not have any explanation for why I did the things I did, it does not set the tone of the conversation. In fact, it gets it wrong. I did not say, "hi," I said, "hi?" Why would your tone and presentation matter? Well, I explained that too.


So again, while I could have been more vague and as a consequence, succinct, I chose not to because, "little details can have big consequences." That sounds familiar... :)



Quite frankly, life lessons (or listening in general) tend not to be interesting to most people. That's one reason why I structured the posts the way I did.

oaklander
12-31-2009, 9:00 AM
You:

In any event, my situation was not one in which I believe, “officer, am I legally required to answer that question,” to be an optimal phrase. In a situation where the officers have RAS/probable cause to believe you are the person on their arrest warrant and have detained/arrested you as such, this one may not a bad question to answer honestly. That doesn’t mean that this is a good question to answer all of the time, even if you aren’t doing anything illegal, but in this case, I was willing to go with it given the circumstances (I won’t get into detail about that). Be aware, though, that opening your mouth usually carries legal risk with it, so it is up to you to decide how you answer this question given your particular circumstances. Even the most innocent statements can be used against you in court, so if it looks like that’s where you’re going to end up, it’s probably best to just exercise your right to remain silent and mention a few, key, legal phrases along the way. There will be some who will believe that I should have exercised my rights to the fullest extent and should do so all of the time, and there will be others who believe that I should have been completely honest and open about things because I was innocent. Again, I believe the best response usually lies somewhere in the middle, and that exercising your rights and presenting yourself appropriately to the officers (who have some discretion in how they behave) are not always mutually exclusive. Exercising ones rights and courtesy can be done together most of the time (as you’ll see in a minute) and doing both is, I think, really the best way to go about things in most cases, if it can be done. I did what I thought was best for me given the circumstances.

Me:

By talking to the officer, I did what I thought was right under the circumstances.

ETA: you are acting like this stop was a big deal. It wasn't.

Here is how I would have handled it. And YES, I have been stopped before in cases of mistaken identity.

Them: Patrick?

Me: No, I'm Kevin

Them: Do you have ID?

Me: Sure, here it is.

Them: Have a nice day!

Me: You too.

Instead, it looks like you decided to be a Richard. Common sense dictates that some situations are easier to handle if you just play along.

turbosbox
12-31-2009, 10:10 AM
You:



Me:



ETA: you are acting like this stop was a big deal. It wasn't.

Here is how I would have handled it. And YES, I have been stopped before in cases of mistaken identity.

Them: Patrick?

Me: No, I'm Kevin

Them: Do you have ID?

Me: Sure, here it is.

Them: Have a nice day!

Me: You too.

Instead, it looks like you decided to be a Richard. Common sense dictates that some situations are easier to handle if you just play along.

What clothing was he wearing and was he at your 10 oclock or trying to get to your six oclock? Inquiring minds want to know. :D

Pyrodyne
12-31-2009, 10:29 AM
Holy cow, I didn't read your post because it was too long. Just like the first one. Don't people learn around here !!! :D

:rofl2:

I lied, I went back and read your post. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! You were approached by a police officer, walking into a store, and you played his game? At what point did you realize that you could just ignore them and leave? Or did that thought never even enter your mind. I can't believe you gave them your ID to run. You need to read a lot of the posts on here, and you need to watch these videos...

Next time they try this, you should be saying "That's NONE OF YOUR ****ING BUSINESS...."

The short and skinny: ALL of the sheriffs in our town are ROOKIES. They are rotated yearly fresh out of academy and out to some other post. The first LEO to approach came up hard and fast, hand on his firearm the whole time. He instantly ordered us to stay put. His posse followed suit and had hands on firearms at all timnes. Our town has some crappy smoking/loitering laws, and we originally thought he was going to bust our chops for that.

The whole event was really overblown for a call that someone was smoking marijuana in a park...

So in one sentence, my advice: Don't blow off jumpy police that keep their hand on their firearm before they even speak and order you to stay put.

The Director
12-31-2009, 10:31 AM
ETA: you are acting like this stop was a big deal. It wasn't.

Here is how I would have handled it. And YES, I have been stopped before in cases of mistaken identity.

Them: Patrick?

Me: No, I'm Kevin

Them: Do you have ID?

Me: Sure, here it is.

Them: Have a nice day!

Me: You too.



Zactly.

PatriotnMore
12-31-2009, 10:35 AM
Clearly a defensible reason to resist arrest, especially if asked to spread em, and assume the position.:eek:


http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/108539.jpg

Old Timer
12-31-2009, 12:34 PM
Does that about sum up your post and this thread?

:pYou gotta meet twitchalot in person. He is, quite possibly, the most hyper person I have ever met. Don't get me wrong! I really like the kid, but he is going warp 8 all the time! If he had posted any less I would have worried he was depressed or something. :)

TwitchALot
12-31-2009, 2:03 PM
I care about what happened to the OP but I feel that even with his intended purpose of teaching lessons, he was extremely redundant and the read was very frustrating. The same things were repeated several times in 2-3 paragraphs each. "Again..., Once again..." etc. kinda stuff. No more "Again"s! If the OP would have just given the lessons ONCE I think it would have been a much more managable read.

Ha. I've tried that before too. You would be surprised at how often that fails...

And the OP gets on Oaklander for getting the facts of the story slightly wrong when HE doesnt even provide much detail on what actually happened to him. If you dont care to write about the story, dont get on someone over a question mark.

The details are there, and the details he got wrong were... detailed. (Ie. secured the lock, ready to go vs unlocking my bike). As I said, little details can be very important.

Either way OP, were glad that you didnt get into serious trouble. Keep on keepin on

Same.


So, the important part was what you were thinking while your rights were being violated?


..... Really?


So far I don't know the whole story but it sounds like you gave them your ID which you probably didn't have to do, then you got arrested any way. Is this a bad example I'm supposed to learn from?

My suspicion is that you barely read any of it, as it seems like you didn't even read the part as to how I ended up in handcuffs in the first place.

You:

Me:

You should consider reading your link. "Each of these passages has faults of its own, but, quite apart from avoidable ugliness, two qualities are common to all of them. The first is staleness of imagery; the other is lack of precision." :)

You are wondering why you are getting all this flack. You wrote a 4700 word essay on something that could have been summarized in 500 words. You added details that have nothing to do with anything.


Yes, it could have been significantly shorter. But no, it could not have been significantly shorter without sacrificing elements I wanted to include.

You tell the readers at the start that you are NOT going to summarize, thus letting them know that you don't care about their time.

I'm letting the reader know that this is going to be long, detailed, and involve many aspects that cannot be summarized effectively. Thus, you shouldn't complain about it being too long if you decide to read it on your Blackberry. More on that below.

You added "lessons" that are simply common sense.

Firstly, common sense is not so common, and secondly, I've never heard the phrase I used (and later modified) in any videos or posts I've seen about "knowing your rights" and how to exercise them. Otherwise, I would have used it. While calgunners in general seem to know their rights better than most, how to exercise them with discretion is a topic that is sorely missing in discussion. "STFU and ask for your lawyer, officer I do not consent to warrantless searches, and officer am I free to go" is nice advice, but reality involves variables and circumstances that should dictate how you deal with a situation.

But even if that weren't the case, what's your argument/complaint, exactly? That important lessons like those should not be repeated or emphasized? That "knowing the law" and "what to do if you get stopped" is common sense and those constant warnings about AW features just shouldn't be discussed and gone over again because, well, everyone should know that already?

I don't see your angle behind this statement. Even if everyone here already knew the phrase, "officer, I do not wish to answer any more of your questions at this time" (I must have been the only one who missed that memo), that the details of important events should be written down shortly after the event, and the other things I discussed, how is it harmful to go over it again and detail the reasoning behind the way we do things? Maybe you know everything, oaklander, and so the lessons I'm trying to share with others are just plain dumb or unnecessary. Maybe others do too, and so for them, my post was a waste of time.

Great. I'm glad you guys know everything, such phrases are "common sense" and, and you do things perfectly because you know everything when push comes to shove. I don't. And since I can be better, it helps to learn lessons when they're taught subtlety, analyze what happened, and understand why things are the way they are so that in the future, I can do things better and be better.

Then you bristle at the criticisms.

Does that about sum up your post and this thread?

:p

I bristle at the fact that people were warned it would be long, detailed, and discuss philosophies/lessons, did not read it, and then still complained about it being long or teaching "common sense." If it's too long for you read, you lack the attention span to do so, or you already know everything and it just plain offends you, don't read it and don't complain about it. If other people who don't know everything want to learn new things, they can read it and benefit from it. Just because it might not have benefited you, oaklander, doesn't mean it's not useful or constructive for other people.

ETA: you are acting like this stop was a big deal. It wasn't.

Here is how I would have handled it. And YES, I have been stopped before in cases of mistaken identity.

Them: Patrick?

Me: No, I'm Kevin

Them: Do you have ID?

Me: Sure, here it is.

Them: Have a nice day!

Me: You too.


This stop wasn't a big deal, oaklander. Which is precisely why the lessons I learned and the reasoning behind them are emphasized and in fact longer than the description of events. Because THOSE are the "big deal."

So what if I ended up in handcuffs for a little bit because of mistaken identity? Why would I have posted that? What difference does it make to YOU and how does it help anyone beyond drawing attention to myself? I'll let you answer that for yourself.

As for the rest of that, that's how you claim you would have handled it, and that's how you claimed it would have happened. Get used to that not happening. I don't know the details of your stops or how they happened, but I can guarantee that the circumstances were not the same as mine.


Instead, it looks like you decided to be a Richard. Common sense dictates that some situations are easier to handle if you just play along.

Yeah, I decided to not know what was going on. Because it's so desirable to be completely confused and then placed in handcuffs. Not everyone has the powers and knowledge you do, oaklander. ;)

wash
12-31-2009, 2:26 PM
Good guess dude!

-hanko
12-31-2009, 2:31 PM
You gotta meet twitchalot in person. He is, quite possibly, the most hyper person I have ever met. Don't get me wrong! I really like the kid, but he is going warp 8 all the time! If he had posted any less I would have worried he was depressed or something. :)
Dyskinesia may be an issue if he actually does a lot of involuntary twitching...May be helpful if he gets a referral to a good neurologist.;)

Psychological issues relating to a major need for drama in one's life (low self esteem, need to be the center of attention, somewhat normal inconveniences that become monumental hassles) are out of my field...as is helping someone who expects different results after posting the same stuff over and over and over...

I'd want to make sure that the hyperactivity isn't caused by something more serious. That said, I've moved Twitch to el listo de ignoro.

-hanko

tankerman
12-31-2009, 2:56 PM
My heads hurts.

pullnshoot25
12-31-2009, 2:58 PM
Dyskinesia may be an issue if he actually does a lot of involuntary twitching...May be helpful if he gets a referral to a good neurologist.;)

Psychological issues relating to a major need for drama in one's life (low self esteem, need to be the center of attention, somewhat normal inconveniences that become monumental hassles) are out of my field...as is helping someone who expects different results after posting the same stuff over and over and over...

I'd want to make sure that the hyperactivity isn't caused by something more serious. That said, I've moved Twitch to el listo de ignoro.

-hanko

He is just fine, hanko, just fine. I know twitch and aside from his need to pontificate, he is a relatively normal guy.

pullnshoot25
12-31-2009, 2:59 PM
My heads hurts.

How many have you got there ;)

five.five-six
12-31-2009, 2:59 PM
My heads hurts.

I agree

oaklander
12-31-2009, 3:07 PM
I guess I should read the original post now!

LOL

Back in a couple of hours. . .

Old Timer
12-31-2009, 4:23 PM
Dyskinesia may be an issue if he actually does a lot of involuntary twitching...May be helpful if he gets a referral to a good neurologist.;) As one who suffers from a debilitating neurological disorder I tend not to make jokes about such things. :)Psychological issues relating to a major need for drama in one's life (low self esteem, need to be the center of attention, somewhat normal inconveniences that become monumental hassles) are out of my field...as is helping someone who expects different results after posting the same stuff over and over and over...LOL! Now I know you have never met him in person! "Low self esteem!" That's rich! :D

I'd want to make sure that the hyperactivity isn't caused by something more serious. That said, I've moved Twitch to el listo de ignoro.

-hankoLikewise. In reviewing your posts from the past several months I can' find anything of an real substance. "Ignore" will save a lot of wasted bandwidth.

Old Timer
12-31-2009, 4:24 PM
I guess I should read the original post now!

LOL

Back in a couple of hours. . .Fast reader! :D:D

five.five-six
01-01-2010, 10:14 PM
I guess I should read the original post now!

LOL

Back in a couple of hours. . .

start drinking first, it will help

Snaps
01-02-2010, 5:55 AM
I wish I would have read some of these replies before the first post :(

Seriously, you come off sounding like a 23 year old trying to give life lessons of a Vietnam Vet.

And I think people might be more receptive to your advice if they didn't see so many blatant judgment errors on your part.

kick Z tail out
01-02-2010, 6:52 AM
And then comes the dreaded question, “do you have any weapons on you or anything I should be aware of?”
I don't dread that question because I don't carry illegally. And if I did have a CCW, the answer would be easy. "Yes, I have a CCW permit and I do have my firearm on me".

Did something happen? Fill me in? Did you have a reason to dread that question?

kick Z tail out
01-02-2010, 6:56 AM
Them: Patrick?

Me: No, I'm Kevin

Them: Do you have ID?

Me: Sure, here it is.

Them: Have a nice day!

Me: You too.

Instead, it looks like you decided to be a Richard. Common sense dictates that some situations are easier to handle if you just play along.
LMAO :D

pullnshoot25
01-02-2010, 8:02 AM
I don't dread that question because I don't carry illegally. And if I did have a CCW, the answer would be easy. "Yes, I have a CCW permit and I do have my firearm on me".

Did something happen? Fill me in? Did you have a reason to dread that question?

Oh great, we have a "gun dork" on our hands. (http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner)

okimreloaded
01-02-2010, 8:23 AM
if you didn't read it, then why are you posting a comment??? Just shhhh and go read something else.

Ah yeah dude I would have been freaking out. Good job handling your stuff and I'm glad everything worked out good.

thegratenate
01-02-2010, 8:30 AM
+ 1
I don't get it either.

dixieD
01-02-2010, 9:02 AM
In addition to the officer thinking I was already playing the name game with him, even if that weren’t the case, as the supervisor said when were discussing the matter, “you might not find this surprising, but people lie.”

Including the police.

bigcalidave
01-02-2010, 9:36 AM
Including the police.

That added a lot to this thread.... :rolleyes:

Sailormilan2
01-02-2010, 10:01 AM
While a post previoiusly discussed the legality of an arrest turning into a detainment, the cops in this case did not go by the book, and in my opinion screwed up.
One detains, investigates, then arrests. That is the proper order. One does not arrest, then detain, then investigate.
The plain clothes officer should have identified himself as an officer, then detained, and investigated. As it was, he essentially "acosted", without identification.
If he had come up to me in that manner there would be an excellant chance that my hand would have gone to my gun, since I have a CCW.

twotap
01-02-2010, 10:39 AM
I think he was writing an assignment for an english class to show the response he could get out of something sooooo drawn out it makes your head hurt.. Good job !!! You did it ..You get a B+...

kick Z tail out
01-02-2010, 11:18 AM
Oh great, we have a "gun dork" on our hands. (http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner)
Plz explain.


:p

TwitchALot
01-03-2010, 6:22 PM
You gotta meet twitchalot in person. He is, quite possibly, the most hyper person I have ever met. Don't get me wrong! I really like the kid, but he is going warp 8 all the time! If he had posted any less I would have worried he was depressed or something. :)

Time's a wastin'! Move any slower and the next thing I know I'll be an Old Timer like you. :p

I don't dread that question because I don't carry illegally. And if I did have a CCW, the answer would be easy. "Yes, I have a CCW permit and I do have my firearm on me".

Did something happen? Fill me in? Did you have a reason to dread that question?

Just because you're not doing anything illegal doesn't mean it won't be a hassle for you. The short answer is, "EDC."

If he had come up to me in that manner there would be an excellant chance that my hand would have gone to my gun, since I have a CCW.

He was about five feet away from me. =/

Old Timer
01-04-2010, 6:54 AM
Time's a wastin'! Move any slower and the next thing I know I'll be an Old Timer like you. :pLOL! Yep! All you have to do to be an Old Timer is SURVIVE! And today, that isn't as easy as it used to be. :D:D