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View Full Version : C&R + COE: Two Modern Handguns in 30 Days???


wsfarrell
12-29-2009, 11:15 AM
At the advice of a moderator here, I just obtained a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) to go with my Curio & Relic (C&R) license. I was told (and have read in several places) that the combination of C&R plus COE will allow me to purchase more than one *modern* handgun in a 30-day period. Every gun store I've talked to says "no, that only lets you buy more than one *old* handgun in a 30-day period."

The main issue seems to be that there's no box on the DROS form that the gun store could check for this purpose. There's a C&R box and a Law Enforcement box, but no "C&R + COE" box.

Does anyone have any reliable info on how a gun store could handle the paperwork in this situation, so that DOJ wouldn't issue a denial? Any help is appreciated.

dfletcher
12-29-2009, 11:28 AM
I believe there is a C & R/COE exempt box for the less than 30. I've bought at Castro Valley, Krausewerk and SJGE using my C & R/COE for modern handguns under 30 and no problem.

Can't recall which, but another store hesitated when I asked him to do the DROS as exempt, told him if it got kicked back I'd pay the cost. I also paid for the gun in full at the time DROS started - went through fine & now the store knows it's OK.

ke6guj
12-29-2009, 11:51 AM
At the advice of a moderator here, I just obtained a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) to go with my Curio & Relic (C&R) license. I was told (and have read in several places) that the combination of C&R plus COE will allow me to purchase more than one *modern* handgun in a 30-day period. Every gun store I've talked to says "no, that only lets you buy more than one *old* handgun in a 30-day period."

The PC that exempts C&R+COE holders from the 1-in-30 does not limit it to just "old" handguns.

12072(a)(9)(A) No person shall make an application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within any 30-day period.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:
(ix) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.

as opposed to the "no 10-day wait" exemption that does state that it is only for C&R firearms.

12078(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071 or 12072 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071. On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077.


The main issue seems to be that there's no box on the DROS form that the gun store could check for this purpose. There's a C&R box and a Law Enforcement box, but no "C&R + COE" box.

Does anyone have any reliable info on how a gun store could handle the paperwork in this situation, so that DOJ wouldn't issue a denial? Any help is appreciated.IIRC, they just mark it as a roster-exempt transfer.

hoffmang
12-29-2009, 1:01 PM
I placed a decent summary that shows how the COE + C&R exempts people from the 1 in 30 rules for all handguns here: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Certificate_of_Eligibility

-Gene

zinfull
12-29-2009, 2:20 PM
It is a box on the DROS forum. It is a pull down under exemption type.
It is up to the dealer to know this.

jerry

himurax13
12-29-2009, 2:47 PM
Is this the right link to the COE paperwork?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0304.pdf#xml=http://search.doj.ca.gov:8004/AGSearch/isysquery/ccf41a0c-468c-4c1b-8ec5-a85f1286a6bc/1/hilite/

ke6guj
12-29-2009, 2:52 PM
Is this the right link to the COE paperwork?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0304.pdf#xml=http://search.doj.ca.gov:8004/AGSearch/isysquery/ccf41a0c-468c-4c1b-8ec5-a85f1286a6bc/1/hilite/


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf

383green
12-29-2009, 3:39 PM
If I'm not mistaken, that "C&R" box is what they would check for the waiting period exemption (note that it's been quite a while since I've done this myself), and it's not important that it's labelled "C&R" instead of "C&R + COE". As I understand it, CA requires their COE (and often other licenses, permits, etc.) for any CA-resident federal firearms licensee to make use of their license, so there's no distinction on things like the DROS forms for C&R+COE vs. C&R without COE... if you don't have the COE, the C&R is just a piece of paper here.

wsfarrell
12-29-2009, 8:25 PM
Thanks to all who replied.

I actually DROS'd two new pistols today at a Sacramento gun store (PM me if you'd like the name). There was a lot of confusion, and they had DOJ on the phone during my visit, but it finally went through. I was the first person to do it at this gun store. For what it's worth, the C&R + COE transaction is done via an X13 exemption.

Several posters were correct: C&R + COE allows you to purchase > 1 handgun of any age in a 30-day period, but exempts you from the 10-day waiting period ONLY for curios, not modern guns.

Thanks again!

dfletcher
12-29-2009, 8:54 PM
Thanks to all who replied.

I actually DROS'd two new pistols today at a Sacramento gun store (PM me if you'd like the name). There was a lot of confusion, and they had DOJ on the phone during my visit, but it finally went through. I was the first person to do it at this gun store. For what it's worth, the C&R + COE transaction is done via an X13 exemption.

Several posters were correct: C&R + COE allows you to purchase > 1 handgun of any age in a 30-day period, but exempts you from the 10-day waiting period ONLY for curios, not modern guns.

Thanks again!

"Calling DOJ and lots of confusuion" sounds like my 1st experience doing the "less than 30" at the old Castro Valley store, but it all turned out fine. If the Sacramento gun store came around and was helpful would it be OK to let us know the name? I know when I'm doing "the 2nd buy" it's nice to know who's already on board with it and who I have to chat up first. Just asking, if there's a reason to not didn't mean to intrude.

savasyn
12-29-2009, 9:11 PM
I've done it a couple of times and normally have had them use the "30 day Multiple Purchase" drop down option. I just did one recently and the guy did the DROS without me standing there and just picked "Collector" under the drop down exemptions and it went through just fine. I'd only seen that one used before when I was doing actual C&R handguns. Maybe it doesn't matter.

Either way, I always ask them to put "C&R + COE" in the comment line of the DROS form and make sure that they keep a copy of both my signed C&R and my COE with the packet.

I've had to educate every store I've done it at for modern handguns. Most are reluctant but I've never been flat out refused(though Retting came really close to that). Luckily I think I've done it at every store I frequent now, so hopefully I'm gtg for any future transactions.

I read somewhere here that if you purchase two handguns at the same time, there is some other form that the store is supposed to fill out. Anyone have any further info on that or was that just FUD? I've never purchased two at the same time, so I never bumped into the issue myself.

kap
12-30-2009, 11:00 AM
Thanks to all who replied.

I actually DROS'd two new pistols today at a Sacramento gun store (PM me if you'd like the name). There was a lot of confusion, and they had DOJ on the phone during my visit, but it finally went through. I was the first person to do it at this gun store. For what it's worth, the C&R + COE transaction is done via an X13 exemption.

Several posters were correct: C&R + COE allows you to purchase > 1 handgun of any age in a 30-day period, but exempts you from the 10-day waiting period ONLY for curios, not modern guns.

Thanks again!

Yep, the X13 was how mine was handled in the past as well. The hard part is trying to convince the FFL that you can do it in the first place since they are not familiar with this exemption.

zinfull
12-30-2009, 12:33 PM
The X13 code is a HSC exemption for only C&R pistols. You need to have the multiple purchases exemption under the Waiting Period Exemptions-Exemption Type. Yes the dealer has to know this or you are out of luck.

Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) requirement exemption codes
X13 = FFL collector with COE (curio and relic handguns only)

jerry

timdps
12-30-2009, 2:08 PM
Jerry, are you saying that the C&R/COE combo exempts a person from the HSC requirement for C&R handguns but does not exempt for modern handguns?

Logic fail... not sure who's logic fail though.

Tim

ke6guj
12-30-2009, 3:51 PM
the C&R + COE combo exempts one from a couple laws.

One is the 1 handgun a month rule, exempt for all handguns, C&R and modern.

Second is the 10-day wait on all C&R firearms, handguns and long guns. It can be C&R per age or by curio listing by ATF.

Third is the exemption from the HSC requirement for C&R handguns only.

The Forth exemption is upcoming in the new handgun ammo mailorder ban.

timdps
12-30-2009, 5:27 PM
the C&R + COE combo exempts one from a couple laws.

Third is the exemption from the HSC requirement for C&R handguns only.


Well poo! :mad: I guess I will have start studying while waiting for my Dracos... :D

Tim

ke6guj
12-30-2009, 5:28 PM
12807. (a) The following persons, properly identified, are exempted from the handgun safety certificate requirement in subdivision (b) of Section 12801:
(1) Any active or honorably retired peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(2) Any active or honorably retired federal officer or law enforcement agent.
(3) Any reserve peace officer, as defined in Section 832.6.
(4) Any person who has successfully completed the course of training specified in Section 832.
(5) A firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071, who is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(6) A federally licensed collector who is acquiring or being loaned a handgun that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the department pursuant to Section 12071.
(7) A person to whom a handgun is being returned, where the person receiving the firearm is the owner of the firearm.
(8) A family member of a peace officer or deputy sheriff from a local agency who receives a firearm pursuant to Section 50081 of the Government Code.
(9) Any individual who has a valid concealed weapons permit issued pursuant to Section 12050.
(10) An active, or honorably retired member of the United States Armed Forces, the National Guard, the Air National Guard, the active reserve components of the United States, where individuals in those organizations are properly identified. For purposes of this section, proper identification includes the Armed Forces Identification Card, or other written documentation certifying that the individual is an active or honorably retired member.
(11) Any person who is authorized to carry loaded firearms pursuant to subdivision (c) or (d) of Section 12031.
(12) Persons who are the holders of a special weapons permit issued by the department pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, or 12305.
(b) The following persons who take title or possession of a handgun by operation of law in a representative capacity, until or unless they transfer title ownership of the handgun to themselves in a personal capacity, are exempted from the handgun safety certificate requirement in subdivision (b) of Section 12801:
(1) The executor or administrator of an estate.
(2) A secured creditor or an agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, or an agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, a default under a security agreement under the Commercial Code.
(3) A levying officer, as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or 680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure.
(4) A receiver performing his or her functions as a receiver.
(5) A trustee in bankruptcy performing his or her duties.
(6) An assignee for the benefit of creditors performing his or her functions as an assignee.

IrishPirate
12-30-2009, 5:54 PM
How long is a COE good for? 3 years like the rest?

ke6guj
12-30-2009, 6:00 PM
How long is a COE good for? 3 years like the rest?

A COE is good for one year.

Basic cost is around $75 for the first year, and a annual renewal cost of $22 IIRC.

Dieseldog
12-30-2009, 11:55 PM
Has anyone done /and or used this at a Bay Area dealer?

timdps
12-31-2009, 7:53 AM
Has anyone done /and or used this at a Bay Area dealer?

I DROSed 4 C&R handguns and took them home the same day at Hadid Machine (now Independence Armory) with C&R and COE.

Tim